Side Scoops - Teaser Pic

[Kurk818]

Here are some teaser pics of side scoops that i intended sell as soon as i get a set fit and made on my car. Final detail of the mold will still take place.
http://i.imgur.com/tleWcsvl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bhMkm9Rl.jpg

[07FIREBLADE]

Take my money. Looks great so far.

[Kurk818]

Im quite happy with how its looking. Needs a few more tweeks. Every time i look at it, i want to change something.

Question: Exposed surface mounted fasteners or hidden?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I want BIGGER!!!!

[Kurk818]

I want BIGGER!!!!

These actualy align with the front and rear wheel wells. Im considering making them oversize and cut to fit as need

[DMC7492]

Hi I agree with Bob. If they were as wide as the rear wheel fender, another inch or so. Don
.

[matteo92065]

I vote for hidden fasteners.

[Kurk818]

Hi I agree with Bob. If they were as wide as the rear wheel fender, another inch or so. Don
.

You dont think that would look out of place?

[FFRSpec72]

What are these scoops going to do ? Where do the they duct to ? Is that the duct behind the car ?

[C.Plavan]

Hard to tell since they are black. I was getting ready to make a set out of aluminum. Save me the trouble, but its hard to see but I think they need to be bigger also.

[07FIREBLADE]

Hidden fasteners and a bit bigger for me too. They look good though where there at though.

[Kurk818]

The ducts will be funneled back to my RMIC via ducting. The duct in the background is 12" and was used to collect the foam dust. Im thinking of using similar duct but black and 6" in diameter to funnel both scoops into the IC.

As they sit now, they are approx 2.5" away from the body. My goal is to make them as large as possible but to not be an eye sore or something that looks out of place.

My goal is to make them adjustable as far as front mouth opening goes and it'd be an easy trim to size desired and install.

Next step after scoops is to make the funnel inside the duct.

[07FIREBLADE]

Are you planning on making them out of fiber glass to paint match or carbon? Is that 2.5" from the back or the front where the scoop indent is very shallow on the body?

[Kurk818]

Are you planning on making them out of fiber glass to paint match or carbon? Is that 2.5" from the back or the front where the scoop indent is very shallow on the body?

2.5" is measured at the widest part of the scoop where the original scoop indent starts on the side panel.

Material is yet to be determined.

[Canadian818]

Looks great Kurt, ground breaking as always! I agree with you on as big as possible without being an eye sore. From the angles your showing us, they could easily go bigger without looking out of place. Trim to fit would allow the wide tire guys to go bigger.

[Kurk818]

Hows this? About 3.5" opening. I think its perfect. http://i.imgur.com/Yv7B6pq.jpg

[Santiago]

Hmmm, hard to tell with that along-the-fender view. A side or three-quarter view would help. As it stands, I think I prefer the smaller scoop - more elegant.

And I vote for flush fittings. This isn't some jeep rock-crawler wannabe. :)

Best,
-j

[Canadian818]

Looks good Kurt, but we really need more angles of each scoop to give a worthwhile opinion.

[Kurk818]

Looks good Kurt, but we really need more angles of each scoop to give a worthwhile opinion.

I dont have the side amgles refined enough to post yet. I'll have something later today

[DMC7492]

The bigger one looks Great! I like the top angle matching the rear fender angle. How does the contour blend back to the original opening? A nice curve or straight? Top View?? Great work!! Don

[Kurk818]

Im almost done with the plug. The top angle will mimic the fender lines. Ill post pics tomorrow

[Canadian818]

Im almost done with the plug. The top angle will mimic the fender lines. Ill post pics tomorrow

Now you're teasing without pics? That's just cruel...

[Kurk818]

http://i.imgur.com/XYWxR7r.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/jtt3Yo1.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/JC1vvdl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0FIdZmU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1ZkC5IW.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/pgXgL47.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/Ft9ctDB.jpg

The plug has been built. I should have my final scoops built and installed by next Saturday

[07FIREBLADE]

Very nice. I love the lines gives it a very aggressive look to the rear section of this car. At least from a side front view.

[Kurk818]

Very nice. I love the lines gives it a very aggressive look to the rear section of this car. At least from a side front view.

Its been a lot of hard work to make the two sides identical. Im happy with the lines and fitment and they will definitely flow some air

[Canadian818]

Looks great kurk! Planning on making them in carbon?

[DMC7492]

Or vacuum bag with West System Epoxy. The results would be extremely strong for the clumsy people we know and super light.
Here is a quick vid. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LPXn038ahD4

[C.Plavan]

Those look good. I can appreciate the work you put in.

I was hoping for a more rounded top part of the vent more like the rear fender form. But hey, we are all experts right? Beggars cant be choosers :)

Again, nice work.

[Scargo]

I'm with Chad. I like where you're going with this, and can appreciate all the work, but I think it would blend in better with all the other rounded surfaces if the top were rounded. Perhaps even pop-up a bit off the fender.
Looks like 200% of what I have with the full open area on my sails.

[tmoretta]

Any thought to developing top scoops to make the intercooler openings on the engine cover larger?

[Kurk818]

Those look good. I can appreciate the work you put in.

I was hoping for a more rounded top part of the vent more like the rear fender form. But hey, we are all experts right? Beggars cant be choosers :)

Again, nice work.

Im see the scoop lines similiar to the rear flares. Rounded over as part of the rear quarter and then pretty much straight as the flare. Sharp lines tend to not be as sharp on the finished product. Im going to produce a set before making any more design changes.

[flynntuna]

:)It looks great, it's very similar to the lotus scoops.


Since your so close to the wheel opening it "almost"makes sense to take it to the wheel well like a Porsche 935.

[Canadian818]

Can we get any tips on the foam you used and techniques?

[Kurk818]

Can we get any tips on the foam you used and techniques?

Extruded rigid foam was used. Glued with 3M Super 78 adhesive or expanding foam spread in between and weighted down over night.

Shaping of foam was done with flap disk on a grinder. Final shaping was done with bondo And high build primer.

[Frank818]

Oh that is great!! I love the top angled portion! Aggressive as hell, powwwaaaaaaaaaaa lolll :) Great stuff Kurk, keep it building!!

[tebriel]

also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VodfQcrXpxc

[Kurk818]

First set came off the mold today. Need to attach the final mounting points for the top and bottom of the front. Ill post more photos once its fully mounted.

http://i.imgur.com/wttQodkl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6Ju0u6Jl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rOhA5gpl.jpg

[Canadian818]

That looks awesome! Really good work! Very aggressive scoop. Please don't be shy with the pics, we need angles!!!

[C.Plavan]

I'll buy the first set. I need them before my race.

[Kurk818]

I'll buy the first set. I need them before my race.

PM sent

[NorCal Ray]

Kurk,

I need the second set. Let me know where to send you payment.

Thanks, NorCal Ray

[07FIREBLADE]

I got third...

[Hendow]

If you decide to do them in carbon, then I'm in for sure...

Need some for the green machine!

[Frank818]

Awesome look! I wonder if they work with VRaptor's louvers?

[Kurk818]

Awesome look! I wonder if they work with VRaptor's louvers?

They should have no problem working with the louvers.

Here are some more photos for your viewing pleasure. Shipping out a set to Chad tomorrow for some feedback.

Waiting on my Vendor status at the moment.

http://i.imgur.com/tMcItkhl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rT8TSHCl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YfmDl6Yl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QiZy2O1l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4mKRAVKl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/l7czVaEl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/c46OCOel.jpg

[Kurk818]

http://i.imgur.com/ystzUfoh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/EzcOHTCh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Fv6cv6ch.jpg

[FFRSpec72]

They should have no problem working with the louvers.



It does not look like they will work with louvers as your cut out is far different. You are welcome to use my louvers to test with but I think you have already cut out too much to work with louvers.

[Kurk818]

It does not look like they will work with louvers as your cut out is far different. You are welcome to use my louvers to test with but I think you have already cut out too much to work with louvers.

How much you cut out of the quarter panel is up to you. For my quarters, yes i have cut out too much.

There is enough meat left on the outer corner after installing the louvers to have a smooth transition between the scoop and rear quarter.

[FFRSpec72]

How much you cut out of the quarter panel is up to you. For my quarters, yes i have cut out too much.

There is enough meat left on the outer corner after installing the louvers to have a smooth transition between the scoop and rear quarter.

Fo the scoops to be effective there needs to be something there to slow down the air, the louvers can serve this function at the same time focus the air flow.

[Frank818]

Fo the scoops to be effective there needs to be something there to slow down the air, the louvers can serve this function at the same time focus the air flow.

Right on.

[Canadian818]

How do they attach at the front? If they are effective, I'd imagine there's going to be a lot of force on the front corners. I guess chad will be doing some testing shortly so we'll know soon enough.

[Kurk818]

How do they attach at the front? If they are effective, I'd imagine there's going to be a lot of force on the front corners. I guess chad will be doing some testing shortly so we'll know soon enough.

1/4" stainless studs are epoxied to the scoops and bolt into place with fender washers through the body of the car.

[C.Plavan]

Those look great. I cant wait to get them on the car.

I may have to mount them differently since I don't have any flange on the outside of my vent's. I cut them alot more. I will still figure out a way to mount them.

I was not a fan of VRators side aluminum louvers to begin with, so I'm not worried about those. There are simple things you can do with a bigger scoop to slow and direct airflow (Aluminum Mesh grill insert and adding a piece of aluminum to the Wheel Splash guard that has an arc). If that needs to be done at all.

I forgot to add that I will be using these inside both vents to aid airflow to my oil cooler (3" hose also).
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/AAF-ALL42141_ml.jpg

[Scargo]

41532I see these at a lot of places and some sellers are very proud of them. Where do you buy yours?

[C.Plavan]

41532I see these at a lot of places and some sellers are very proud of them. Where do you buy yours?

Amazon or Summit- they are just Allstar Performance brake ducts. $19ish

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Fo the scoops to be effective there needs to be something there to slow down the air, the louvers can serve this function at the same time focus the air flow.


There are simple things you can do with a bigger scoop to slow and direct airflow (Aluminum Mesh grill insert and adding a piece of aluminum to the Wheel Splash guard that has an arc). If that needs to be done at all.

I'm Confused,
Twice above, the mention of slowing down the airflow into the scoop has ben mentioned.

I think bringing the fastest, most, air into the scoop would give you the best cooling. I want the largest volume air to swirl around the engine compartment and then get sucked out the back of the car as fast as possible. Faster moving air always gives you more cooling.

Can someone explain why you would want to slow down the air at the intake scoop?
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

Beyond the looks, I'm not seeing functional value, as these will disrupt the airflow down the side of the car and have an impact on the rear low pressure area. There is nothing to slowdown the air and increase the pressure and opening up the area around the scoop just defeats the aerodynamics for air flow/cooling. The side scoop is not in a high pressure area, this is in a slow-moving air that clings to the side surface of the car, a scoop needs to be above this area

[FFRSpec72]

Can someone explain why you would want to slow down the air at the intake scoop?


Slowing down the air will increase the pressure as the air builds up, the pressure keeps the air circulating large volume does not keep the air circulating

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Slowing down the air will increase the pressure as the air builds up, the pressure keeps the air circulating not the volume does not keep the air circulating

I totally disagree. That is like saying if you put a piece of cardboard behind your radiator to slow down the air flow and increase pressure, you will get better cooling.
I'm sticking to wide open vents and scoops.
Bob

[Kurk818]

I totally disagree. That is like saying if you put a piece of cardboard behind your radiator to slow down the air flow and increase pressure, you will get better cooling.
I'm sticking to wide open vents and scoops.
Bob

I think as long as you have enough vent relief on the back side to let the heated air escape, the results will show.

We'll see what Chad finds out after installing and testing.

[FFRSpec72]

I totally disagree. That is like saying if you put a piece of cardboard behind your radiator to slow down the air flow and increase pressure, you will get better cooling.
I'm sticking to wide open vents and scoops.
Bob

Go back and read your physics books and read Bernoulli's Equation, why do you think that the F1 cars use the snorkel types of scopes for the engine?

[C.Plavan]

Beyond the looks, I'm not seeing functional value, as these will disrupt the airflow down the side of the car and have an impact on the rear low pressure. There is nothing to slowdown the air and increase the pressure and opening up the area around the scoop just defeats the aerodynamics for air flow/cooling.

Tony,
With all due respect, once you have a running car or have done testing on your own, you can make a statement like that. I can tell you the stock side vents do not flow enough air at speed. We are thinking with the added door vents on my R, we need something to "catch" more air because of the velocity/turbulence of the air being thrown out of those vents. My air intake was right in that vent, it was not getting enough air, and the air it was getting was hot(combination of flow and amount of air). If there was more forced, directed air coming in, that would not of happened. I had to move my air intake up to the passenger hump area, and run hatchless to get cool air coming into the intake. The same goes for my version 1, oil cooler vent intakes that were also attached to the side vents on the inside. Granted, I have now made an insulated box for my oil cooler, more air will help.

Honestly, who cares about disrupted air down the back 1/4 side of the car if it means better cooling and more forced air in the side vents. That is not even anything I am slightly worry about. No one will even feel that.

If you want to finish your car so I am not the only one out here on the track trying to get everything working in harmony, please get building and finish it up. I think everyone would appreciate "Real World" testing from multiple sources. That is what I am trying to do.

I don't think it is at all productive to criticize Kurk818's work without it even being tested yet. I can tell you definitively that the stock vents were not working for me, on the track.

Bob- Notice my last sentence in the quote. I'm not at all sure about that either.

[FFRSpec72]

Tony,
With all due respect, once you have a running car or have done testing on your own, you can make a statement like that.

My car will be done soon and out on the track so thanks for your concern. There are some things that one can figure out w/o actually having the car on the track, this is one of them. There is also nothing wrong with expressing opinions and experiences here, unless you believe yours are the only ones that counts.

[C.Plavan]

Sorry to hijack Kurk818- However, It looks as if the Holiday Inn stock should be going up. Because we are all experts. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm-h7YR_410

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I think as long as you have enough vent relief on the back side to let the heated air escape, the results will show.

We'll see what Chad finds out after installing and testing.

Kurk,
I love your scoops. If anything I wish they were a little bigger.
Looks like I will put my oil HE in the left side and my AWIC HE in the right side.

Autocross test and tune in 8 days and track day in 30 days.
Right now I have no data logging of temperatures. I need to work on that.
Bob

[Mechie3]

Tony is correct that slower flows have a higher pressure than a fast moving flow. This is how airplane wings work. Pressure must increase with slower flows in order to conserve energy. Think of blowing air on the front of the car. In the free stream, pressure is lower, as it hits the windshield, the flow slows down and pressure increases. If it helps, imagine that the air can't escape fast enough and is being pressed on by the incoming faster air and that is how pressure builds.

Ideally you want a low pressure zone in the back with a high pressure zone in the front to feed the low pressure zone. The potential energy terms and the density terms (assuming less than mach .3) of bernoulli's equation cancel, so we're only dealing with velocities and pressures. By slowing the air at the inlet you increase pressure and create a higher pressure differential across the engine bay. However, his needs to be balance with total flow for the required heat transfer and the equations of conservation of mass where a smaller closed area has a higher flow velocity.

Lots of times race cars have radiators in the side pods with a small inlet area leading to a diverging nozzle at the radiator. The back side of the radiator has a converging nozzle. This increases the flow speeds at the inlet and outlet and slows it where the radiator is to allow more time for heat to transfer from the radiator to the air. Sure, you can get a larger radiator inlet area, but at the expense of more drag. These are some of the games you can play to optimize setups and use the air you have vs just cramming in more air.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/imgmec/bernoul.gif

[Frank818]

The side scoop is not in a high pressure area, this is in a slow-moving air that clings to the side surface of the car, a scoop needs to be above this area

Seriously? I thought it was, that's why I asked long for a complete picture with colors of the pressure differences on all the body parts and over the car.

[Kurk818]

The scoops are there to catch more air. How you funnel it is up to you.

Im learning as i go, i hope we all are.

[C.Plavan]

I understand all that, but what makes me wonder is all the engine compartment air escape routes (bottom of motor, top vent, rear vents). Its not a perfect environment and I know its all related. We do not have the funds, expertise, or way of measurement to make any conclusive findings. We are going by Armchair Quarterbacking. If I get the cooling I need- perfect.

My oil cooler insulated box is more Bernoulli's Equation, than that of the engine compartment. My example: 3" ducts from portion of Kurk's side vents--->3" duct hose----> to oil cooler attached ducts---->to insulated oil cooler box.

http://i.imgur.com/VbtlTt9l.jpg

BTW- I will do some yarn tuft and gopro tests around my loop next week.

http://www.quattroworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/audi_motorsport-110204-0070.jpg
I'm good with these on this mid engine :)

[longislandwrx]

not to get off topic but Chad, you mentioned how violent the air coming out of the front wheel vents was... any thoughts on ditching the vents, and ducting that air through the doors to the back? or do you think the air is too hot from the rad?

[C.Plavan]

not to get off topic but Chad, you mentioned how violent the air coming out of the front wheel vents was... any thoughts on ditching the vents, and ducting that air through the doors to the back? or do you think the air is too hot from the rad?

That's all a real guess of a bunch of combined minds at the track. All the guys said "You need a scoop of some sort". I'm hoping these will fix that.

[flynntuna]

To bad the windtunnel video FFR made doesn't show more detail we could actually use.


http://www.factoryfive.com/videos/project-818/

[Kurk818]

Russian built such great cars in the 60's that they didnt bother to make any more advances in technology.

If its good enough for Putin, its good enough for me :)

41542

[AZPete]

Maybe you should add a chrome lip to your vent. It makes the Zaporozhets look racy! ;)