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edwardb
03-30-2015, 09:23 PM
OK, I know “No pictures, it didn’t happen…” but you’re going to have to trust me for a couple days. Very busy day today getting my Mk4 legal, and just enough time at the end of the day for my first drive. I’m a little stoked and want to share now. Eventful day, and this isn't a short story...

The day started by calling for a police inspection. This is the first step in the process for Michigan. Their job is to make sure all the numbers match and are accounted for – easy with a new build and no donor or salvage parts – and then the usual safety inspection, e.g. lights, horn, glass, wipers, bumpers, etc. An experienced officer and a trainee showed up. First question when he walked into my garage was “What engine in this thing?” I said a 347 stroker. He answered that he couldn’t sign it off unless it had a 427. I knew right there he was a car guy and it should go well. He did spend some time looking at the documentation. But then filled out all the papers. Never did actually look at the car. Said because it was a new build and I looked like I knew what I was doing (I guess looks can be deceiving…) he assumed everything was right and worked properly. I said they did. All signed off and first step complete.

Then went to the Secretary of State for the title, registration and license, and right away had a major issue. As some of you know from my build thread, I’m not the original purchaser of 7750. I bought if from a guy in New Hampshire that only had it a few months. The Certificate of Origin from Factory Five has his name on it, of course. Although I had a fully executed bill of sale, cancelled checks, etc. they wouldn’t take it as is. Even spent a bunch of time on the phone to Lansing confirming. There’s no place for the original owner to sign off as the signature blocks on a Certificate of Origin are only for dealers. They asked if I could get a new Certificate of Origin from Factory Five with my name on it. I’ve heard this question asked before on the forums, and recalled the answer was no. And, legally I understand Factory Five wouldn’t want to get into the position of confirming proper transfer of ownership. So the only solution was for me to get a Surety Bond, similar to what is done for a lost title. It’s for twice the purchased value for three years, and is an insurance policy protecting the state (and me I guess…) if somehow the original owner decided to contest the sale. Fortunately, I was able to go to my local insurance agent and in a couple hours the bond was issued and approved by their underwriter. And I was a bit poorer. But I had no choice.

Back to the Secretary of State, and I was out an hour later with a VIN, completed title request, and a 60 day temporary tag. Since this is when I had to pay sales tax on the car, was poorer once again. But that one I was planning for. Midwest Classic Insurance was awesome. I called from the SOS with the new VIN number, and they had a proof of insurance form back to the fax machine in just a few minutes.

Seems Michigan has changed their process for the VIN since when I did my Mk3 several years ago. The FFR number is no longer the VIN. They created an all new one. The year is a 2015 (my Mk3 was a 1965). The make is listed as a very glorious “Assembled.” Yep, that’s what they do now. The title and VIN tag will be reviewed and approved in Lansing, and they will make an appointment with me to hand over the title and place the VIN tag when they're ready. Then I can apply for the actual final license plate. Three years ago all this happened in one stop. They explained there has been a lot of fraud, and many new rules and steps implemented. Oh well. They were really friendly and helpful throughout the process. But good grief. Michigan used to be pretty friendly to these cars. Now not so much. I now have a little idea how some of you in other states feel. Still simpler than some I guess.

So, back home, slapped on the temporary tag and buckled in for my first real drive. The 2.6 miles to date on the odometer were mainly on jack stands and a few up and down the street in my sub as a go-kart and then once before paint. I’ll cut to the chase. The car is absolutely awesome. I ended up doing 13.8 miles, and home just in time for dinner. Had the GPS to have actual speed since my speedo isn’t calibrated yet. I’ll do the calibration, but it’s probably within 1 or 2 mph already. Max speed during my drive was 64 mph according to the GPS. Don’t remember that… All the gauges during the drive were perfect. Water and oil temp, oil pressure, voltage. Even lowered the gas gauge slightly. No surprise. The steering wheel is maybe 1/4 inch off center. I’ll tweak at it, but that’s close. The power steering is fantastic. I will not stop recommending this as a huge improvement to the driving experience. Brakes felt OK. I need to bed them in per the Wilwood procedure. I’m sure that will make them better, but they’re pretty good now. Modulation with the hydroboost power felt fine. The hydraulic clutch and mechanical throttle worked precisely and smooth as I hoped. The TKO600, as upgraded by Liberty’s, shifts perfectly and easily. Not quite like the well used T-5 in my Mk3, but it’s brand new. I tried 5th a couple times, and like it. I chose the .82 final drive along with the 3.27 rear gears. It’s very comfortable at 50 and up in 5th. And I really like the closer spacing between 4th and 5th. The DART stroker feels VERY STRONG. I didn’t push it hard at all, but clearly it’s going to be more than enough. Stuck my foot in it pretty good once in 2nd. Just spun the tires, so didn't learn much. Can’t tell too much about the 5-link yet, except that it feels great. Went around a few twisties and it’s rock solid. Ride is firm but not harsh. I like it. Probably what I liked the best was the feel of the steering and the absolute absence of any bump steer. The new FFR spindles are amazing. The wheel never moves a bit when going over bumps. My Mk3 was never bad with the SN95 spindles, but you did feel bumps in the wheel. Never enough to move the car, but they were there. This is smooth like a DD. Very cool. The car itself is smooth and quiet. Not a single rattle, squeak, whatever. It’s exactly what I was hoping for. A tribute to a classic that drives like a modern sports car.

Back in the garage and checked everything over. All looked good except a small puddle of green antifreeze. Ugh. Looked closer and it had puked a little fluid out the overflow tank drain. Nothing else. Once it was cooled off, checked and the coolant was at the top under the filler cap. The overflow tank still had a little in the bottom. So I’m just going to leave it and see what happens. Probably I had a little too much fluid in the overflow tank “cold” position. My other open task is tuning the Quick Fuel carb. I’ve done some basic things, but still more to do. Out of the box, it’s running really well. But I think still too rich at idle. Response at all speeds is instant. But I’ll watch the plugs (and gas gauge…) and see what that shows me. Thinking about picking up an AFR gauge and getting more scientific about it. But we’ll see.

For all you builders out there, trust me this is the day you’re aiming for and nothing feels better than that first ride in your new build. Weather looks good for a more extended drive on Wednesday. I’ll shoot a video or two and post them.

R Thomas
03-30-2015, 09:51 PM
Gratz, so looking forward to the day I can post this story myself.

Jazzman
03-30-2015, 10:22 PM
Fantastic! Thanks for the follow up. Keep it coming.

rmiller64
03-30-2015, 11:03 PM
Edward, Congrats and thank you for the detailed events of your day. Hoping to be there in the next couple months

Ray W.
03-31-2015, 12:50 AM
Congratulations, Edward. I'm glad the day went well for you. You've earned it!

CraigS
03-31-2015, 06:34 AM
Great to see you are on the road. It's obvious, since this is your second FFR, that you like messing w/ cars so I strongly recommend an Innovate LM2. I have the LM1 and a friend has the 2 and they are both great. Spend a little extra and get the rpm pickup. Don't bother w/ the shove it up the tail pipe pickup. The pipe is too large and the flow too low at lower speeds to get an accurate reading. Plan to weld an O2 bung in somewhere. I have found that I can do the light throttle around town speed stuff pretty well by just looking at the display. But the WOT check is best done by memorizing it and then transferring to a computer so you can look at the graph in detail. this is one of my graphs. Note I don't have an rpm reading so I go by the big swings. The first is when I mash it at 2000 and the last is when I let off at 5000. In between is a pretty flat trace which is what I was working toward.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/craig-s/Quickfueljune2013_zpsbc047974.jpg

smithbks
03-31-2015, 07:00 AM
Congratulations! An awesome build and an awesome finish! Someday maybe I'll see you at one of the shows when I'm finished too. I'd love to see that car in person.

Jeff Kleiner
03-31-2015, 07:07 AM
Congrats! Enjoy the springtime drives :)

Jeff

chopthebass
03-31-2015, 07:59 AM
I'm dreaming of that day! Although I'm pretty excited about starting my build! Can't wait to see your vid.

rwantin
03-31-2015, 08:10 AM
Awesome to hear! And of course, we got some snow last night. At least it will be gone fast. :cool:

The whole titling/registration thing here in Michigan last summer was cause for concern, even a little scary. The owner lived here in Michigan, though was relocating hence the sale. He previously worked for Factory Five and the car was registered in CT, even had one of those stickers under the dash. As it turned out, getting the CT title was going to take a while, so we went to the Secretary of State and did a "hard transfer" with a bill of sale. I was assured this was fine, but still, a bit concerned. I didn't know if there would be an inspection, etc., but they did give me plates and registration on the spot. The MI title took a little while, or at least it seems, longer than usual. It was a VERY happy day to get that envelope with green in it.

I like to renew my tabs online, because it is so painless (and fast)! March is an expensive month for me. All the motorcycles and my daily driver showed up in the system, but not the "2003 Composite" as it is referred to here. More concern. I mailed a check with the form, tabs eventually showed up a few weeks ago. Again, more relief. Hopefully that the car's existence is established and has a history, next year might be easier.

edwardb
03-31-2015, 10:50 AM
Awesome to hear! And of course, we got some snow last night. At least it will be gone fast. :cool:

The whole titling/registration thing here in Michigan last summer was cause for concern, even a little scary. The owner lived here in Michigan, though was relocating hence the sale. He previously worked for Factory Five and the car was registered in CT, even had one of those stickers under the dash. As it turned out, getting the CT title was going to take a while, so we went to the Secretary of State and did a "hard transfer" with a bill of sale. I was assured this was fine, but still, a bit concerned. I didn't know if there would be an inspection, etc., but they did give me plates and registration on the spot. The MI title took a little while, or at least it seems, longer than usual. It was a VERY happy day to get that envelope with green in it.

I like to renew my tabs online, because it is so painless (and fast)! March is an expensive month for me. All the motorcycles and my daily driver showed up in the system, but not the "2003 Composite" as it is referred to here. More concern. I mailed a check with the form, tabs eventually showed up a few weeks ago. Again, more relief. Hopefully that the car's existence is established and has a history, next year might be easier.

Yea, boy was I surprised to wake up to 3-4 inches of snow this morning. It is melting, but my planned more extensive drive tomorrow is in jeopardy. Regarding the MI process, the sticking point was the Certificate of Origin that didn't have my name on it. Had it been titled, in MI or any other state, it would have been a piece of cake. The people at the SOS kept saying the original purchaser didn't have the right to transfer ownership without a title, and that he should have gotten a title before he sold it to me. I asked how he was supposed to get a title for a bare chassis and bunch of boxes of parts. Their response? He shouldn't have sold it. We just kept going round and round. My Mk3 build back in 2009/2010 was also a kit that I purchased out of state (Ohio) after it had been started and the Certificate of Origin didn't have my name on it. It wasn't a problem to title in MI with only the bill of sale. But now it's obviously changed. Before the local SOS office could make the call and decide the documentation was adequate. Now all assembled vehicle request for titles are reviewed and completed in Lansing (the capital for those of you not paying attention in U.S. geography class) and they said it wouldn't be approved unless I had the Surety Bond. Or got another Certificate of Origin with my name on it. The key takeaway I think for forum members is to be careful, and check your state requirements so you aren't surprised. Partially built kits get sold frequently. You may or may not have an easy time getting it titled once completed. As long as I'm a MI resident, I probably won't do that again.

And CraigS, thanks for the info on the AFR meter. I was looking at the various Innovate models this past weekend, along with some other brands. Also looking at what it would take to put a sensor in my exhaust system. Haven't decided anything yet, but your post is very helpful. My thinking is that I could pay for a one-time tuning session, or for a similar amount have the necessary stuff to do it myself repeatedly. We'll see.

AverageIowaGuy
03-31-2015, 01:57 PM
Congrats on getting it titled and running so well. I read the build thread for that car. Neat! I was interested in how your titling process would go, as I'm moving to Michigan and my car will be built and titled there.

Quick question - I see a lot of guys doing quite a bit of body work prior to the painting process. I saw on your build thread that you did a little as well. Is that typical? How likely is it to just be able to have the thing painted after getting the car built? Additionally, fitting the body seems to be an issue on the build threads I've read thus far. I'm not sure I understand why that would be the case, given that the body comes from the factory bolted onto the chassis. One would think that the body would fit just fine if it is coming off the same chassis.

Edit: One quick question - are windshield wipers required to register/title these vehicles?

howling-cobra
03-31-2015, 02:25 PM
Edward, Congratulations on the build. Thank you for sharing your day getting the title done. This is the type of stories that I need to hear to push me forward in my build. Looking forward to hear additional adventure stories.1

edwardb
03-31-2015, 02:49 PM
Congrats on getting it titled and running so well. I read the build thread for that car. Neat! I was interested in how your titling process would go, as I'm moving to Michigan and my car will be built and titled there.

Quick question - I see a lot of guys doing quite a bit of body work prior to the painting process. I saw on your build thread that you did a little as well. Is that typical? How likely is it to just be able to have the thing painted after getting the car built? Additionally, fitting the body seems to be an issue on the build threads I've read thus far. I'm not sure I understand why that would be the case, given that the body comes from the factory bolted onto the chassis. One would think that the body would fit just fine if it is coming off the same chassis.

Edit: One quick question - are windshield wipers required to register/title these vehicles?

You shouldn't have the same problems as I did if you have the Certificate of Origin with your name on it. Still a several step process, but much more straightforward and you won't have to post a bond like I did.

Yes, the body is shipped on the chassis, and the doors, trunk and hood taped in place. But the body needs to be cleaned up a bit (outlines, openings, wheel openings, etc.) and the movable pieces are purposely cut oversize. The aluminum on the chassis is roughly in all the right places, but again only placed for shipping. Final locations will be determined during the build. It's shipped without the bulb seal, which is mainly what the body sits on. Plus other things that affect body fit, like the windshield and splash guards, are not mounted during shipping. Bottom line. what "fits" in shipping is very preliminary. Actual fitting is when everything is finally assembled. I found the Mk4 body actually fit quite well on my build. Much better than the Mk3 I built previously. Sure there are issues reported. But I'd bet there are a ton of them installed without issues reported. I think experience has a lot to do with it. Whether you do the fitting yourself or have the body shop do it is up to you. I've done the rough fitting on both of my builds for the sweat equity savings. Plus I like the build process. Many just take all the pieces and let the experts do it. Your choice.

Yes, wipers are on the checklist for Michigan. Along with all the usual stuff like lights, bumpers, horn, mirrors, muffler, etc. Also, in the interest of full disclosure, washers are on there as well. I haven't had washers on either of my builds. The officer in both cases checked the "wiper" and "washer" blocks at the same time after noting the presence of the wipers. I think this might be pretty typical and low risk, but just FYI. This is the inspection form that has to be completed: https://www.michigan.gov/documents/TR-54_38480_7.pdf

AverageIowaGuy
03-31-2015, 02:59 PM
Yes, wipers are on the checklist for Michigan. Along with all the usual stuff like lights, bumpers, horn, mirrors, muffler, etc. Also, in the interest of full disclosure, washers are on there as well. I haven't had washers on either of my builds. The officer in both cases checked the "wiper" and "washer" blocks at the same time after noting the presence of the wipers. I think this might be pretty typical and low risk, but just FYI. This is the inspection form that has to be completed: https://www.michigan.gov/documents/TR-54_38480_7.pdf

Thanks for the info. Not sure how I would even go about putting washers on, guess I'll have to research it. I'd hate to have the car built and have to go back and figure out how to install washers. Ouch.

edwardb
03-31-2015, 03:06 PM
Thanks for the info. Not sure how I would even go about putting washers on, guess I'll have to research it. I'd hate to have the car built and have to go back and figure out how to install washers. Ouch.

It can be done. There are kits. Need the nozzles, tubing, pump, reservoir, power and switch. I wouldn't sweat it though. I had a spray bottle on the tunnel during the inspection to point to if necessary. I've heard of others doing that and it was accepted. Nearly no one installs a washer though. I think it's very low risk.

Bren
03-31-2015, 03:11 PM
It can be done. There are kits. Need the nozzles, tubing, pump, reservoir, power and switch. I wouldn't sweat it though. I had a spray bottle on the tunnel during the inspection to point to if necessary. I've heard of others doing that and it was accepted. Nearly no one installs a washer though. I think it's very low risk.

I imagine that this is one of those things where, if you are denied for not having the washer, just come back another day and hope you get another person who may not be such a stickler.

edwardb
03-31-2015, 04:23 PM
I imagine that this is one of those things where, if you are denied for not having the washer, just come back another day and hope you get another person who may not be such a stickler.

For Michigan, I would say that's partly true. You could call and roll the dice for a different officer doing the inspection. They just dispatch whoever's in the area. Or maybe you know a LEO who can sign it off. Not saying I've ever heard of that happening... But taking the form into the Secretary of State office, they're pretty white and black about everything. They look at the form to see that every block is checked. You wouldn't be able to explain away any empty boxes.

AverageIowaGuy
03-31-2015, 05:30 PM
For Michigan, I would say that's partly true. You could call and roll the dice for a different officer doing the inspection. They just dispatch whoever's in the area. Or maybe you know an LOE who can sign it off. Not saying I've ever heard of that happening... But taking the form into the Secretary of State office, they're pretty white and black about everything. They look at the form to see that every block is checked. You wouldn't be able to explain away any empty boxes.

I know a TON of LEO right around where I'll be living. Maybe I'm just overthinking things. I reckon I'll try the squirt bottle. I wasn't even planning on building mine with wiper blades. It isn't like I'll be driving an auto with no top in rain or snow.

One more question - I am thinking of building this as potentially race ready, even though I am not planning on racing it often, if at all. I don't even have a license but I am interested. Would you build yours with fuel cell right from the getgo if you were planning on the possibility of racing?

edwardb
03-31-2015, 07:32 PM
One more question - I am thinking of building this as potentially race ready, even though I am not planning on racing it often, if at all. I don't even have a license but I am interested. Would you build yours with fuel cell right from the getgo if you were planning on the possibility of racing?

I have no experience or knowledge about fuel cells, and no desire to set one up for racing. So I'm not the guy to ask. Sorry. Certainly experience out there with the Challenge cars. Some of those guys could weigh in elsewhere. Maybe search in that part of the forum or post a new thread with your questions. I see Factory Five sells the kit to mount the fuel cell. I also see the specified Fuel Safe cell is $2,700. Yikes.

edwardb
04-01-2015, 02:53 PM
For the "No pictures it didn't happen" crowd, here's a video from today's drive. This is probably the worst video in history, but I'll post it anyway. :p

I sold my GoPro last year because I rarely used it and the audio wasn't great anyway. This was taken with my little Canon pocket camera. It's full HD and doesn't look bad, but Photobucket cut down the resolution. This was actually an experiment to see how it worked. So this is just me holding the camera while driving. Not ideal, to say the least. The audio isn't bad, so will work on a better way to mount, or have a passenger shoot some.

Did almost 50 miles today. The snow from yesterday is mostly gone, the roads dry, and about 50 degrees. A nice day for a drive. Got the speedo calibrated and I'm happy with how it's working. Couldn't find a good place to mess around with bedding the brakes. Just too much traffic (and police!). The coolant puke issue from Monday seems to be history. Only issue I have now is that I got enough heat in it to start the cooling fan, and even though the temp dropped it never went off the rest of the drive. I've got a 180 degree thermostat and a Painless 30111 fan control thermostat. Rated at 185 on and 170 off. Obviously not a good combination, and in hindsight I'm not sure how I thought that would work. The other Painless option, 30110, is rated 195 on and 185 off. Going to give that a try.

Turn up the volume. Doesn't sound bad. Nothing extreme though. About 50 mph in cruise here. Have I mentioned I like the car? It really is a pleasure to drive. I think I'll keep it.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Completed/th_First_Drive_zpso3gdlwtw.mp4 (http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Completed/First_Drive_zpso3gdlwtw.mp4)

DaleG
04-01-2015, 03:28 PM
Thanks for the info. Not sure how I would even go about putting washers on, guess I'll have to research it. I'd hate to have the car built and have to go back and figure out how to install washers. Ouch.

Easy! I got a nice washer kit from ********** awhile back for $135; just looked at their site and could not find it. Give them a call.

Gumball
04-01-2015, 03:56 PM
I second washers - I added them to mine with parts assembled out of the Moss Motors catalog. Nice addition to a car with wipers and makes it look just that much more production-like.

sbak
04-01-2015, 04:43 PM
Congrats on a very nice looking car, sorry about your weather.. hey, something to look forward to. The video with the Canon is great, btw.

edwardb
05-15-2015, 07:42 PM
Since this is a relatively new process for Michigan, thought I would put one last post in this thread. The Michigan title, VIN and license process now really is complete and the temporary tag is gone. When we last left the story, I had a VIN assigned and a 60 day temporary tag. All the paperwork went to Lansing for their review and approval. I received a call just over two weeks ago saying I was approved and they were ready to give me my title and apply the VIN tag. An agent from the Secretary of State office actually came to my house. After looking things over and a few more signatures, handed me the title and the VIN tag. We agreed to put it on the 2 inch tube under the dash next to the FFR engraved chassis number. She let me stick it on because she said in her experience people with cars like mine were kind of picky. Imagine that! But she had to watch. With the title in hand, I was able to go back to the SOS office and apply for a license plate. After getting through a glitch with my proof of insurance, the application was completed. Today the plate came and it's hung on my Roadster. That's it! Here are pics to prove it happened. I edited the picture to obscure most of the VIN, but it's a made up number that no longer contains the FFR chassis number. My 306 powered Mk3 Roadster was HISS306, so the plate for the Mk4 wasn't hard to decide.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Completed/IMG_3199_blanked_zpslcm8j6cm.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Completed/IMG_3199_blanked_zpslcm8j6cm.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Completed/IMG_3197_zpsjp9zvkei.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Completed/IMG_3197_zpsjp9zvkei.jpg.html)