Engine Guidance (and other... ; -)

[Holgate]

Hi all,

This is my first build, so these will be inexperienced - if not stupid - questions, I'm sure. But I'd rather ask an get experienced answers and look dumb than stumble through on my own!

In my build I'm at the point where today I installed the gas tank and tomorrow I will be installing the cockpit metal. With that in mind, here are my questions:

Engine - In order to keep making progress without a major delay, when should I plan on having the engine on hand?

Also, from the beginning I've been planning on getting a new engine...but I've also heard that doing that is a major P.I.T.A. for registration here in Massachusetts. SO...does anyone have thoughts to share about getting a used engine and then having it rebuilt instead of going new? Either way I'm planning on a carburated 302.

Other - I'm still debating power steering and power brakes. I know there's probably tons of posts about this already, but I would appreciate any fresh opinion on doing or not doing either of these. And like above, if I go with either, guidance on when to get them on hand?

Thanks everyone!

Shannon

[skullandbones]

Hi Shannon,

Welcome to the forum and the beginning of a life changing project. You didn't mention if you are doing a complete kit or basic one with options (just curious). If I were you, I would hold off on the engine as long as possible. The warranty may not be delayed while the engine sits waiting for finish. If arrangements are made to let you start the warranty say starting at first start that might be ok. I just thought I would give you the heads up to know what your warranty limitations are in advance. I actually built a plywood mock up of the small block and used it to get an idea of how everything looked including valve covers, oil pan, headers, etc. it also lets you get a good indication of wire and cable locations. Power steering is a nice feature. I don't think power brakes are necessary but that depends on how much ease of operation you are planning. I like the feel of the Wilwood dual master cylinder setup. If you are wanting a more daily driver like experience then maybe they (PB) are the way to go.

Sorry I don't know the particulars about Mass strict regs. AZ is very lenient compared to the New England states. Someone from you locality surely will help.

Good luck and welcome to the madness. Keep us posted.

WEK

[Holgate]

Thanks WEK! I hadn't even considered the warranty aspect, so I appreciate the tip. Small consensus seems to agree with you - yes on PS, no or maybe on PB. I'll plan on doing the PS and then living with the brakes for awhile to see what I think. Just FYI, I went with Complete kit.

(Cool idea with the plywood mock-up! :) )

Best.

[edwardb]

I assume you are going with the Wilwood pedal box for your build? Standard with the complete kit. If so, changing from manual brakes to power brakes would be a major change and IMO very difficult on a completed car. I assume you understand that with the Wilwood pedal box, there are two separate master cylinders (front and rear circuits) mounted inside the footbox directly on the pedal box. The two cylinders are actuated by the pedal through a balance bar, which can be adjusted to affect front/rear balance. Your reservoirs and brake lines are all plumbed to this location inside the footbox. For a power brake option (either vacuum or hydroboost) the dual master cylinder is hung outside the footbox along with whichever power assist option you choose. This takes a minor modification to the Wilwood box removing the internal master cylinders and adding a pushrod. But also all the plumbing changes. Additionally for the vacuum option, typically a minor frame modification is required to provide clearance for the vacuum booster. Easy enough to do during the build with the body off. Pretty difficult on a completed car. Bottom line here is that while it's possible (most anything is possible with enough time and effort...) to change from manual to power brakes, personally I recommend you view it as a one time decision vs. trying it and you can change later. Having said all that, the Wilwood manual brake option works very well. Even with OEM brakes, there are options to increase their effectiveness with different pads, etc. For aftermarket brakes, e.g. Wilwoods, you really don't want power anyway. Sorry for the long winded explanation, but hopefully you find it helpful. Good luck with your build.

[Holgate]

I assume you are going with the Wilwood pedal box for your build? Standard with the complete kit. If so, changing from manual brakes to power brakes would be a major change and IMO very difficult on a completed car. I assume you understand that with the Wilwood pedal box, there are two separate master cylinders (front and rear circuits) mounting inside the footbox directly on the pedal box. The two cylinders are actuated by the pedal through a balance bar, which can be adjusted to affect front/rear balance. Your reservoirs and brake lines are all plumbed to this location inside the footbox. For a power brake option (either vacuum or hydroboost) the dual master cylinder is hung outside the footbox along with whichever power assist option you choose. This takes a minor modification to the Wilwood box removing the internal master cylinders and adding a pushrod. But also all the plumbing changes. Additionally for the vacuum option, typically a minor frame modification is required to provide clearance for the vacuum booster. Easy enough to do during the build with the body off. Pretty difficult on a completed car. Bottom line here is that while it's possible (most anything is possible with enough time and effort...) to change from manual to power brakes, personally I recommend you view it as a one time decision vs. trying it and you can change later. Having said all that, the Wilwood manual brake option works very well. Even with OEM brakes, there are options to increase their effectiveness with different pads, etc. For aftermarket brakes, e.g. Wilwoods, you really don't want power anyway. Sorry for the long winded explanation, but hopefully you find it helpful. Good luck with your build.

Not long-winded at all. Fantastically helpful! I'm going to stick with the Wilwoods. Thanks!

[jceckard]

If you want to delay the purchase of your engine and still make progress on the car, you could consider the plastic model route. I've never worked with one personally, but I've seen mention of P-Ayr. They make foam replicas with or without heads, intakes, etc. They even have threaded inserts to mount on headers and such. Hopefully, others with direct experience with these will chime in. I'm considering this route when/if (hopefully when) I get around to building my own.

[sbak]

Holgate, thanks for posting these questions; many of us are still in the planning stages and all of this helps in making the decision on which way to go. Thanks to scullandbones and to edwardb for the info on the Wilwood brakes.

[myjones]

If you want to delay the purchase of your engine and still make progress on the car, you could consider the plastic model route. I've never worked with one personally, but I've seen mention of P-Ayr. They make foam replicas with or without heads, intakes, etc. They even have threaded inserts to mount on headers and such. Hopefully, others with direct experience with these will chime in. I'm considering this route when/if (hopefully when) I get around to building my own.

That's a great idea for checking hood clearance, headers, pulleys etc on any of the FF kits that use a V8. The price is a bit steep for a one off build but if it gets passed around dropping $50 for each builder it would be a great idea<> kind of like the pedal bender list. Dean Ayers lives close to KC and built the engine for my cousins race car before he started P-ayr so I have followed his success story.
When he cast his first injection molded V8 blocks, (which he painted Orange) he used to go to local circle tracks and dragstrips and stroll around the pits with his molded block on his shoulder, that got the attention he wanted and he would stop and answer questions about them.

[CraigS]

While the plastic model is a neat idea that I had never thought of, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Unless you are going w/ a very unusual engine combination, you can post a question and there will certainly be someone who can answer it.