Anyone Want Some Louvers for the 818?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

If any of you have been to my website, and particularly the "Custom GTM Parts" page:

http://vraptorspeedworks.com/custom-gtm-parts/

I make and sell lots of different louvers for the various body openings on the GTM. If anyone is interested in having some nice looking louvers to fit in the body openings, I would be happy to design and produce them for you. I've done this on many other projects, and usually, all I need is an accurate template of the area the louver fits in made from tag board or cardboard or something similar. If anyone is interested in something like this, you can email thru my website.....my email address is right at the top of the page in the above link. Thanks!

[RM1SepEx]

You mean like these?

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?16101-Hood-Louvers-Zero-Decibel-Motorsports

I have a pair, they are AWESOME and very well made too!

[Kalstar]

About freaking time you jumped on the 818 boat!!

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Looks like I'm a little late to the party......

[Kalstar]

Looks like I'm a little late to the party......

You make so much other cool ****. Can't wait to customize my car with your products.

[07FIREBLADE]

Some side scoops would be killer. I want those more than louvers at this point.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I assume you're talking about some fiberglass scoops to add to the body? Without an 818 here, that one would be tough for me to do......unless someone was willing to splash those areas of the car (make a mould from fiberglass) and ship it to me so I had something to work with.....

[tmoretta]

I am looking for a way (additional scoops or whatever) to get more air into the intercooler openings on top of the engine cover.

[Kalstar]

Since the pics of the 818c coupe are now released (see through rear hatch) can you make me an engine cover for the 818 like you did for my GTM? Same style would be fine, just enough to cover that ugly Subaru lump. Sorry Subaru lovers... it really it is not a pretty engine.

[C.Plavan]

These cars need more louvers for the rear engine area. It gets so darn hot back there. If you made louvers for the back side of the humps, that would be great way to get more heat out. I would like side pods scoops also.

[07FIREBLADE]

How about a surface scan instead of a mold? Would that work to suffice if it's in a cad file that you could play with.

[Frank818]

Adjustable side louvers inside the side scoops as well (see most Porsches), so we can direct air flow wherever we need inside the engine bay (from the sides).

[Ethan818]

I would be very interested in Louvers for the rear deck vents to match (or instead of...) the front louvers offered by Mechie, these still haven't been offered. It's a little asymmetrical to have louvers on the front topside vents but and perf not the rear top side vents.

[Mechie3]

I started on those and the machines at work went down. By the time it was back up people were asking for other things. The front louvers ended up being slow sellers so I didn't yet come back to the rear louver yet and focused on the trunk hinges and AWIC brackets.

http://i.imgur.com/voVR2jz.png

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I'll address a few questions here:

No, a surface scan will not do me any good. I need the physical shape of that area to build something off of.

Kalstar.....like my aluminum engine cover? That I may be able to help you with if you can help me with some dimensions?

Adjustable louvers? Sorry, but that's probably not a realistic project.....as in, for the hundreds of hours it would take to design and manufacture something like that, you would have to sell thousands and thousands of them to get your investment back.

Louvers for the rear deck lid.....a bit of caution on this. The windshield is creating a low pressure area. Any heat that exits the top of the engine cover is immediately going to get sucked straight forward into the passenger compartment and it's going to feel like you have a blow-torch aimed at your neck. To cool the engine bay, you have a few choices, and most of them are going to be aimed at forcing more fresh air in so that the hot air is forced out the back of the car. If FFR is supplying the perforated aluminum with the little round holes for the the side scoops and the rear opening of the body, that is 90% of your problem. That stuff flows virtually no air. None. You can see for yourself......set up a fan and blow the fan right in your face. Now put a piece of that perforated aluminum between the fan and your face. I think most of you will be surprised at the results. Whether it's the perforated aluminum or a piece of solid cardboard, you can not tell the difference. So no cool air can get into the engine bay, and no hot air can get out of the engine bay. The GTM has the same problem. That is why the whole first section of GTM parts on my website are all focused on heat management. I'll see what I can do.....

[Frank818]

You're the expert, if adj louvers won't pay off, then some louvers with properly oriented fins to allow better air flow where it matters would do it.

Like you said, see what you can do about the "heat management kit", I'm one very interested!

[nkw8181]

Attentively following this thread

[flynntuna]

I wonder if there's any interest in an enlarged version of the louvers like the ones for the 1st gen GTM.

[bbjones121]

Hey Shane, Something i have been looking for that i believe would really help the rear of the 818 is a set of side rear bumper vents. Can you come up with something there that would compliment the style of the other vents? maybe further back than they are in the gtm. Something like the Porsche turbo?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Hey Shane, Something i have been looking for that i believe would really help the rear of the 818 is a set of side rear bumper vents. Can you come up with something there that would compliment the style of the other vents? maybe further back than they are in the gtm. Something like the Porsche turbo?

Can you post a pic showing the area you're thinking about?

[bbjones121]

39884

[BipDBo]

I theorize that some good aggressive hood louvers would not just be aesthetic, but greatly improve the airflow through the radiator and even add a little bit of down force.
I know that the 818 has been kind of plagued with airflow issues, specifically through the front mounted radiator. The problem is not the intake but rather the outlet. The hood has a decent slope to it and the 818 hood vent is just two very small perforated panels. Because of that slope, that hood is likely more of an aerodynamic high pressure zone, which is normally a good thing for down force, but it turns those perforated openings into ram air intakes. The hood opening fights with the front intake, and the front intake wins, but most of the air leaves sideways through the fenders. Much better airflow through the radiator might be achieved by replacing those perforated panels with sloped louver fins, the bigger the better. It would be best if the first fin protruded from the hood, and each additional fin was shorter, so that the trailing edges were level with each other (see this quick, crude drawing). This will create low pressure just over the opening, and draw air up, away from the radiator.
39885
If the 818 hood openings are expander to one much larger opening with a large enough louver, the air path out to the sides could be closed off. All of the air can be pushed up, which would increase down force. Two small flex ducts could run from in front of the radiator and blow onto the front brake discs. A louver's "free area" is the area perpendicular to the path of airflow usually about half of the surface area of the louver's frame. The louver's free area would have to have to be as large or larger than the intake, preferably 50% larger. So the outlet louver(s) should be pretty large, a total frame area of 2X to 3X the size of the front intake.
But my theory might not work any better than the current design in practice. The windshield may maintain a high pressure pocket of air above the hood. The only way to know for sure we be to make a crude and ugly prototype that can be field modified and test it out. You don't need a wind tunnel. You could get quantitative measurements by mounting an anemometer or a pitot tube in the airstream, right in front of the radiator and drive it around the track.

[bbjones121]

We need more flow through the engine bay also. A low pressure zone at the lower rear bumper would help suck some air through.

[JAubin]

My car is far from running, but my understanding is that engine cooling is a much more significant issue than the airflow through the front of the car. Considering people are running AWIC to solve the issues w/ lack of airflow in the engine compartment and intercooler.

Shane, glad to see you adding your talent on the 818... my two cents is engine bay cooling is something we can all use more of. Side Scoop louvers and/or bigger side scoops are two things I'm hoping to put on my car eventually.

[C.Plavan]

39884

I think that is a great idea.

[C.Plavan]

I wonder if there's any interest in an enlarged version of the louvers like the ones for the 1st gen GTM.

I was thinking about that the other day. I think if they cut the aluminum to fit the FULL hood recess, that would be very beneficial for the front. My hood is bouncing around like crazy trying to get all the air out on the track. I ended up taping it down to reduce the violence. (The mini qwik latches did not like it- I have since went to the hood pins on the front)

[longislandwrx]

I was thinking about that the other day. I think if they cut the aluminum to fit the FULL hood recess

this.

vents that fill the whole recess would be very cool. the small ones disappear a little.

be aggressive be be aggressive

[bbjones121]

Like a noble m12

[matteo92065]

or like a lotus elise

[flynntuna]

Another mod that could be done can be to modifiy the 818 hood and add some aluminum to make a shroud to funnel the air from the radiator thru the hood like the FFR type 65.

[BipDBo]

[QUOTE=JAubin;192951]My car is far from running, but my understanding is that engine cooling is a much more significant issue than the airflow through the front of the car. Considering people are running AWIC to solve the issues w/ lack of airflow in the engine compartment and intercooler.
QUOTE]

Right. I have heard of the engine bay heat as well and that's an entirely separate problem. I would bet that problem is mostly intercooler. Most of the heat, perhaps 75% in the engine compartment is likely from the intercooler. Most of the rest from the exhaust, and only a little from the engine. I think that the intercooler issue might be solved by hard ducting it from a low ram scoop, like the side scoops, and ducting it into the bottom of the intercooler. Airflow is backwards from in a WRX. Then duct the from the top of the intercooler to a low pressure area. Straight up through the deck should be fine, but at the back might be better. If the ducting goes from low to high, it goes the same direction as convection. Gravity works with it. Very important while reving at the stop light or start line of a drag stip.
If the intercooler is ducted all the way in and out, the temp in the engine bay should go down considerably, and at the same time, the intercooler should perform better.

My understanding is that there have also been a lot of issues with engine overheating, especially on the higher power track cars. That suggest to me that we have a radiator airflow issue. One example is that FFR referred to some cooling issues here:
https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new/30-day-818r-build-progress-update/
Also note that they have been carving out the doors (red car, look for #15) to get more air flow out from behind the radiator.
39894

[BipDBo]

Another mod that could be done can be to modifiy the 818 hood and add some aluminum to make a shroud to funnel the air from the radiator thru the hood like the FFR type 65.

I think that is a most excellent idea.
A big opening would provide less resistance than a louver and it would weigh less. The deflector on the front edge of the opening, if large enough, should be enough to create a low pressure pocket.
It also looks cooler, IMO.

Louver fins, however, especially curved ones may be optimal to draw the air out by Bernoulli's principle. I just don't know. A bit of experimenting could answer that.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I theorize that some good aggressive hood louvers would not just be aesthetic, but greatly improve the airflow through the radiator and even add a little bit of down force.
I know that the 818 has been kind of plagued with airflow issues, specifically through the front mounted radiator. The problem is not the intake but rather the outlet. The hood has a decent slope to it and the 818 hood vent is just two very small perforated panels. Because of that slope, that hood is likely more of an aerodynamic high pressure zone, which is normally a good thing for down force, but it turns those perforated openings into ram air intakes. The hood opening fights with the front intake, and the front intake wins, but most of the air leaves sideways through the fenders. Much better airflow through the radiator might be achieved by replacing those perforated panels with sloped louver fins, the bigger the better. It would be best if the first fin protruded from the hood, and each additional fin was shorter, so that the trailing edges were level with each other (see this quick, crude drawing). This will create low pressure just over the opening, and draw air up, away from the radiator.
39885
If the 818 hood openings are expander to one much larger opening with a large enough louver, the air path out to the sides could be closed off. All of the air can be pushed up, which would increase down force. Two small flex ducts could run from in front of the radiator and blow onto the front brake discs. A louver's "free area" is the area perpendicular to the path of airflow usually about half of the surface area of the louver's frame. The louver's free area would have to have to be as large or larger than the intake, preferably 50% larger. So the outlet louver(s) should be pretty large, a total frame area of 2X to 3X the size of the front intake.
But my theory might not work any better than the current design in practice. The windshield may maintain a high pressure pocket of air above the hood. The only way to know for sure we be to make a crude and ugly prototype that can be field modified and test it out. You don't need a wind tunnel. You could get quantitative measurements by mounting an anemometer or a pitot tube in the airstream, right in front of the radiator and drive it around the track.

I agree with your assessment. The hood louvers for the GTM was the first louver project I did.....and for the same reasons you list. FFR had the GTM hood set up pretty much just like the 818.....some small openings with perforated aluminum. I figured (as you did) that driving down the road, at best the perforated metal was acting as an "air curtain" where the air flowing across the surface was blocking the air under the hood from coming up thru the hood....and at worst, the air was actually trying to flow backwards, and only a difference in more pressure under the hood than above the hood would force the air out.....or find another route.

And yes, I would agree that putting a higher lip at the front of the opening along with a larger opening will create the low pressure area needed to draw the air out from under the hood instead of having to force the air out from under the hood with higher pressure.

Now.....who wants a set of free set of hood louvers in exchange for splashing a crude mould of that area of the hood for me? ;-)

[bbjones121]

How do i splash a mold for you?

Also, could i do one for the lower back bumper for some vents there as well?

[matteo92065]

I think I have an extra hood.
I would be willing to cut it up and or make a mold.

[Frank818]

An extra hood? How on Earth did you... oh well. :) Let's take advantage of what we can to get us some nice air flow!!

I try to think what I could actually really do to help, but so far I fail to find something.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

matteo.....that would be perfect is you have a hood you could cut up for me and just send the vent area of the hood. If you want to shoot me an email via my website:

http://vraptorspeedworks.com/contact-us/

I can send you a photo of the area of the hood I'd like.


bbjones,

Making a mould of an area of the body is pretty straight-forward, but does require quite a bit of time and some materials. If you're willing to do it, I'm willing to do my best at making some attractive and functional parts for you. For projects like this, I don't need a flawless, perfect mould. What I need is the basic shape and contours. A quick and dirty basic outline of how I would go about making a mould would be something like this:

Buy some good masking tape. I would not really recommend the blue painters tape, as it does not stick well enough for this project. The average tan colored tape may stick too well. We use the yellow 3M masking tape....it's a good balance between the two. Cover the entire surface of the area with masking tape. Overlap each piece a bit....maybe 3/16" or so of overlap, and try to get everything completely smooth...no wrinkles in the tape. Use the longest strips you can so you don't have a ton of places where the tape ends right in the middle of the area. You ARE going to have some places like that....there's no avoiding it....but just try to keep them to a minimum as they can be a PITA when you're waxing it down....if the edge lifts up while you're waxing it, it will not stick back down. This is not the normal procedure for making a mould, but it's probably the safest one so that there's basically no chance that the mould can end up being stuck permanently to your car. So, after you have the whole area covered in masking tape with no bubbles under the tape and all of the tape ends stuck down tight, you can get some automotive paste wax and wax the whole area just like you would wax your car. Apply the wax, let it dry for a few minutes, then gently buff it off so you don't mess the tape up. Repeat that about 5 times.

At this point, we usually spray the area down with several coats of Part-all #10 mould release. If you have a cheapy Harbor Freight HVLP paint gun ($15), that works great to spray it on. It's green, so you just keep spraying mist coats, let it dry (5-10minutes), another mist coat, let it dry and repeat that until all of the yellow masking tape has a pretty obvious green color to it.

Let all that dry and then you can begin fiberglassing. Tear the fiberglass into reasonably sized pieces. In big flat areas, the pieces can be bigger. In tight areas you'll want smaller pieces, like the size of a baseball or narrower strips. Don't try to wrap a strip of fg around a sharp edge like the transition between the wheel arch and the edge of the side scoop. It will just bubble up at the edge and leave a big void there. For the edges like that, tear up very small pieces, like ping-pong ball size and just wrap the edge strands over the edge of the scoop. When you have a bunch of pieces pre-torn, then you can start fiberglassing. We mix resin about 6-8 oz at a time. Start at an edge of the mould and work your way across, building up the thickness as you go. Don't put one layer on the whole area, then go back and do a second layer......build up the thickness as you work across the mould. We just use a 2" chip brush to apply the fg and work the bubbles out. Once you get about 3 layers built up on the whole area, I would put some nylon rope around the perimeter and resin the rope to the mould. That adds strength and rigidity to the mould.

Once the resin is cured.....I would wait 24 hours...it should not even be a little bit tacky feeling....it should be completely bone-dry solid.....we usually take some wooden craft sticks and sand one end down to like a knife edge. Take that edge and work it between the body and mould. Get one craft stick shoved in the edge, then move a few inches away and get another one shoved in. Keep working your way around the mould, shoving craft sticks between the body and mould until the mould pops loose from the body. That's it. Now you can peel all of the tape off the body and you're done.

[matteo92065]

Last night I bought fiberglass, resin, mold release, etc., to make a mould of the hood. Would doing only one side be good enough? Since they are a perfect mirror of each other? I will be sure to put in a very clear and accurate centerline into the mould. This would save on effort, materials, and shipping.
I'm not ready to cut my hood up just yet. I will be more than willing to cut it up to test fit a full length louver vent.

[FFRSpec72]

Last night I bought fiberglass, resin, mold release, etc., to make a mould of the hood. Would doing only one side be good enough? Since they are a perfect mirror of each other? I will be sure to put in a very clear and accurate centerline into the mould. This would save on effort, materials, and shipping.
I'm not ready to cut my hood up just yet. I will be more than willing to cut it up to test fit a full length louver vent.

I made the mould for the hood over the weekend and they are one their way to Shane along with the side vent moulds. Would be nice to get a mould of the rear deck lid.

[RM1SepEx]

I want the louvers to mount to the top of the hood and sit in the contoured area, the only exposed edge would be the back. total length 12 inches

[FFRSpec72]

I want the louvers to mount to the top of the hood and sit in the contoured area, the only exposed edge would be the back. total length 12 inches

Why on top of the hood ?

[RM1SepEx]

because when mounted under they sort of disappear due to the contour of the hood

[FFRSpec72]

because when mounted under they sort of disappear due to the contour of the hood

You don't want anything in the rear recessed area ?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

because when mounted under they sort of disappear due to the contour of the hood

As soon as I get the moulds from Tony, I'll get started on these. Mine will not disappear down into the hood. They will mount to the back side of the hood and fit and look similar to the Gen I GTM louvers. Not exactly like them, but similar. As we discussed earlier, I'll toy around with making the leading louver blade stand a bit proud from the hood surface to deflect the air up and create a low pressure area for the rest of the louvered opening in the hood.

In reality, I'll probably end up selling a few different versions of hood louvers for the 818. Something to fit the standard opening, an enlarged opening and maybe a more aggressive race version with a tall front blade to maximize the low pressure area?

[RM1SepEx]

Craig's are made to fit in the approx. same position as the FFR grills. If they were wider and longer they could fit underneath if the contour was cut all the way up to the surface of the hood. Then the louver would stand up better. The hood contour is pretty deep at the front...

[RM1SepEx]

You don't want anything in the rear recessed area ?

I want it to stop where the frame tubes cross supporting the suspension... I want to block that off and force the air to flow up and out of the louvers. The boxed in area where FFR has the battery tray will either end up as a small storage compartment or even more likely as the area for the fuel tank

[metros]

I agree with RM1. Putting them on top would make the more prominent visually and probably function better as well.

[bbjones121]

I can't wait for some options. Getting excited!

[bbjones121]

If you could do anything to make the rear end look better (side rear bumper vents or back rear vents like your GTM) , I would definitely buy and I am sure others would as well.

Also, I know factory five had made the door vents for the 818r to help pull some air out, is there anything that you might be able to come up that could do the same, but work with the many 818s owners out here. I think the rear end and the front door/fender area are what need visual help. Each of these locations could look better and the modifications would be functional.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

If you could do anything to make the rear end look better (side rear bumper vents or back rear vents like your GTM) , I would definitely buy and I am sure others would as well.

Also, I know factory five had made the door vents for the 818r to help pull some air out, is there anything that you might be able to come up that could do the same, but work with the many 818s owners out here. I think the rear end and the front door/fender area are what need visual help. Each of these locations could look better and the modifications would be functional.

I'm open to whatever you guys feel is needed or would help with appearance or cooling. If there is enough demand for the product, I'm willing to do my best to make something that people will be willing to purchase. I am at the disadvantage of not having an 818 here, so developing this stuff will require that I get some help from you guys. If you want me to work on some of the rear bumper vents or some front fender louvers or whatever.....splash me a mould and ship it to me and I'll see what I can do. The mould needs to be big enough so I have some context of the area and what I'm working on. I don't care to get into making too many fiberglass parts, but again, it all depends on demand. If there is enough demand for some moulded fiberglass rear bumper vents I can do that. On fiberglass parts, I would need to know an initial demand as it doesn't make sense for me to spend 2 weeks creating parts and moulds to just sell one set. On louvers and aluminum parts, the design work doesn't take nearly as much time or materials, so it's not that big of a deal to stick my neck out and hope they sell.

[Frank818]

Yeah louvers to fill the whole recessed area, Tony, I like that.