Details on New Factory Five 818C Coupe

[Dave Smith]

Following the 818S roadster and the 818R track car comes the 818C coupe. Here are some spyshots of the soon-to-be-released Factory Five 818C hard top coupe. The new coupe will be unveiled at the 2015 summer Open House, and we are building the chassis right now in the engineering shop.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/DSC_84871.jpg
Above: The 818S was the first car to launch a year and a half ago. The soft top was introduced about 8 months later.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3147-694.jpg
Above: The 818R followed the 818S launch.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3847.jpg
We will introduce AND be in production on the 818C at our summer Open House on June 13th, 2015. Some tentative details are at the bottom of this post.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3826.jpg

Above & Below: The front windshield recession and glass are identical to the roadster 818S version. The rake is similar (the roadster windshield rake is slightly adjustable).

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3828.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3830.jpg
Existing 818 door panels will accommodate power side windows, but will require updated door steel.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3831.jpg
The rear hatch is designed to be hinged at the top of the rear glass, similar to our GTM.

[Dave Smith]

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3835.jpg
Side rear quarter window glass incorporates an air intake slot.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3836.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3841.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3843.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3846.jpg
The roof scoop is functional. Fresh air intake for the engine bay with an integral inner linear that ducts air through the cockpit and into the engine bay. This is being designed as a source for cold air to the intercooler.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3849.jpg
The 818C project involves about six months of shaping and mold making.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3850.jpg

The 818C hard top is designed to retro-fit to all current 818S models. It will not fit the 818R. The design includes the following features:

Power side windows
Rear quarter glass and side-vented engine bay
Hinged rear glass hatch
Inner bulkhead with rear window
Inner hard top linear with air intake duct to engine bay
Comes with front windshield glass

Pricing is not available at this time. Production start date is estimated June 2015.

[David Hodgkins]

I'm in love.

With fiberglass!

Dave, I know this thread is going to explode but let me be the first to say,

THAT'S HOF!

:)

[bigAl]

looks GOOD!

[JAubin]

Holy Crap! That looks like it's going to be amazing! Can't wait to see it all together. Still have a while before I'm doing body work, this will be added to my kit for sure! Thanks for the info Dave!

[Niburu]

THIS is fantastick!
Bless you Dave Smith for making this happen so quickly!!!

[Pearldrummer7]

WOW this is cool. Keep us posted with more details Dave and thanks for the info!

[michael everson]

Looks great. Where do I send me deposit?
Mike

[Mark Dougherty]

Great job to the guys at FFR
they have done a fabulous job on the top

[AZPete]

Yes, it is HOF! Dave, please take my full payment now!

Or, please put me on the Gottagetit ASAP list.

[metalmaker12]

Ditto, very nice job FFR, but I feel there much more up your sleeves!!

[Kalstar]

Like most things, wait till you see it in flesh with the body...it is OMG awesome!

[Dave Smith]

Been an absentee forum-guy and, as I said in another post, that aint likely to change much. Still I wanted to see the reaction of the shape. We do have some other things up our sleeves, but I can tell you one thing for sure, the execution on the 818 program from inception to the derivative products has been outstanding. I am so proud to work with these guys and the organization continues to mature and gain skills at a really exciting pace. The coolest thing about all the 818 stuff like this hardtop is that we are making sure the parts are retrofittable to 001 that way guys who bought an 818 can upgrade, change, drive their cars as they see fit. As more and more cars get completed, we are seeing the quality of the launch and development plan pay off in huge dividends. More to come for sure and Summer Open house will see the car unveiled.

[xxguitarist]

This coupe design looks great!
I would definitely call it a "coupe" design though, as opposed to a "hardtop" since the glass is part of it in the front (correct me if I'm wrong), so you can't remove it easily and have a roadster. Looks like it replaces a trunk lid panel (or two) also?

The Miatas and S2000 both allow for this, but both design approaches have merit.

[iblackwe]

Wow I am very impressed and I am more impressed that this will be retrofitted. Put me on the list!

[metalmaker12]

Been an absentee forum-guy and, as I said in another post, that aint likely to change much. Still I wanted to see the reaction of the shape. We do have some other things up our sleeves, but I can tell you one thing for sure, the execution on the 818 program from inception to the derivative products has been outstanding. I am so proud to work with these guys and the organization continues to mature and gain skills at a really exciting pace. The coolest thing about all the 818 stuff like this hardtop is that we are making sure the parts are retrofittable to 001 that way guys who bought an 818 can upgrade, change, drive their cars as they see fit. As more and more cars get completed, we are seeing the quality of the launch and development plan pay off in huge dividends. More to come for sure and Summer Open house will see the car unveiled.

Can I get an awesome!!!! Yea this just happened woohoo

[07FIREBLADE]

OMG. This is amazing. I've been waiting for this for so long and now it's just what I wanted in the top and so much more. Can't wait til June and if there is a hotlist to get on I want on. Amazing job FFR and Dave.

[Santiago]

Looks fantastic! The 818 keeps getting better and better!

[mikeb75]

Very cool! Definitely going to be an addition to my build!

[icky]

Who do I pay a deposit to be first in line?

[billjr212]

while this doesn't fit my build plan (I had originally pictured something more along the lines of a removable hard top), I can certainly say kudos on the design, and I'll be good with the soft top anyway, so no need to pander to me. :cool: .

The lines should look great, and I like the integration of a roof scoop. It will be very interesting to see the details under that top as far as separation between the passenger compartment and the engine. Should buyers start sprucing up their engine bays for a Ferrari 360 Modena style show?

Cheers!

-Bill

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I like it.
Does this look to everyone to be an easy swap from hardtop to roadster and vice versa?
Bob

[WIS89]

WOW! Looks awesome, and another great execution by the folks at Factory Five!

I look forward to seeing it with the rest of the body.

C'mon open house, get here quick! Just awesome...

Regards,

Steve

[FFR-ADV]

Congratulations and a Big Thank You to the entire Factory Five Racing 818 development team for a job well done!

[wleehendrick]

It looks great. I do see quite a bit of Cayman in the lines, but that's not a bad thing. I'd like to know if this is an all-or-nothing upgrade, or if a minimal top (without power windows, etc..) would be an option. Also, how easy it would be to change out seasonally to top-less? This would pretty much require a windshield defogger, if not required by law, good sense in a small closed cockpit. Although I love the look, I don't know if it's in my future, as heated seats and a bikini top is my current plan, and all I really need in my climate.

[phillig]

This looks great. The continuous refinement and development of the car is very encouraging. I am very happy I decided to build my 818. I am having a great time now and it looks like a lot more fun late in 2015 adding this mod to my car.

[Jaime]

I am very excited about this. It looks even better than I hoped it would.

[shinn497]

W00t! So glad I waited until today dave! I can't believe I called it on FB. :3:3:3

More good things from FFR!

[JAE]

Looks great, can't wait to see it on the car!

[Silvertop]

Oboy!!!!!! Very nice. VERY nice. I can just about visualize what the whole car is going to look like with that top on it. There will be a lot of takers for that, for sure. I will probably be approaching go-kart status with my kit about the time this new top becomes available. Which means that ordering it as an upgrade could be a real option. As nice as it is, though, I'm guessing that I'll probably stay with the roadster version, buying the optional soft top -- UNLESS.......... there might be a Targa top version coming too??????? One can hope!:rolleyes:

[GUNS]

Well there goes my budget! Great job, can't wait to see the final product!

[Kalstar]

Who do I pay a deposit to be first in line?

Too late, I am number one on the list.

[chucky797]

so, who is going to photoshop these together to get an idea? i can see it in my head but would like to see it in a picture.

[flynntuna]

Looks fantastic! It sounds like the installation is similar to the 33 hot rod, were it's bolted down in front and behind the seats. Since it'll need new door steel, I wonder if the retro fit for existing roadster owners will need new door skins and door cards if they choose to install the power windows, or if they'll need to take apart their existing doors for the new steel?
I really like the "Swatch Watch" approach to this car.
Just hope we will have the option to order the new door steel when ordering the car to be able to add the hardtop at a later time.

[D2W]

so, who is going to photoshop these together to get an idea? i can see it in my head but would like to see it in a picture.

I was thinking the same thing. Would love to see this on a car. Good job Dave.

[Harley818]

I like the way the lines go towards the back of the car. Very nice...Looking forward to my upgrade.....

[Arm7419]

I'm interested now

[07FIREBLADE]

Where's Vman when we need him

[Hindsight]

Outstanding. Looks incredible from what I can tell and that rear window will be fantastic for showing off the engine bay, if you have an engine bay deserving of showing off of course.

I'm having a hard time visualizing the look of the completed car so am really looking forward to seeing what it looks like with the rest of the body installed.

[Dave Smith]

The design is similar to the Hot Rod hard top in that it is a true "removable" hard top. Jim feels that the door liners and skin will not change, only the inner steel structure to accommodate the mechanism. I've seen the functional doors with window glass tooling installed and it looks like that design goal will stand firm. Still there are other changes in the works and I was working on a post updating that today, maybe have it up tomorrow. The 818 development and evolution was side-tracked a bit by the USRRC/FIA car and we have 3-4 other projects we are working on concurrently (ones even Kalstar can't make me talk about yet) but I'm pleased that we are meeting the bulk of the original goals of the platform. Thanks for the encouragement. There are guys reading this who have spent countless hours bringing this from idea to reality who deeply appreciate your feedback.

[Kalstar]

Kalstar at your service. AKA...the mole. :cool:

[Mechie3]

I like the curve of it. Wonder how it looks with the trunk adding length to the rear. Someone should Photoshop it.

[shinn497]

MORE UPDATES TOMMOROW ?! W00T

I do hope that there will always be an option for a 818kg/10,000$ roadster doe.

Time to check on how much the 33 hard top compares. :D:D

[07FIREBLADE]

2k for the 33 top so if its anywhere around that or up to 3k, then Im fine. I can't wait for more details and any chance to get on a hot list I'm in.

[Flamshackle]

Kalstar at your service. AKA...the mole. :cool:

Hahaha... And the first person to have the 818c by the look of things!

Man this shape is spectacular and totally hits the HOF target FFR set.

Can't wait to see the other "developments" but this just looks sooooo good :-)
I will order mine later in the year once released. I honestly can't wait to build this car

[Vman7]

Just a quick mock-up. I would have to adjust everything to get the camera angles to match the side view picture of the 818.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37870&d=1421753565
37870

[RM1SepEx]

I like the curve of it. Wonder how it looks with the trunk adding length to the rear. Someone should Photoshop it.

That shot includes the trunk area, you use the hatch access the engine

[imom]

Would it be possible to have a full cage so the coupe top is non removable? With the A, B, and C pillar all connected. I like this option to create more opening for getting in and out when entering and exiting the car. The bottom support beam blocking the door stands out a bit. With a full cage...I imagine all that can go away. Also if there's a full cage, perhaps it's possible to remove that chunk at the A pillar where the mirrors mount too... Would be nice if the mirrors were going to be mounted on the steel doors instead. That triangle piece really stands out distracting.

But overall the top looks very nice....sexy.

[longislandwrx]

just did quick 2 min chop at work with gimp. cant wait to do one tonight with more time.

37872

[Stickshift84]

I am absolutely blown away and cannot wait to see this in person. I have wanted a coupe version since day one and I will definitely be ordering. May be better than I imagined and cannot wait to see it with the rest of the car.

Wondering how that intercooler ducting will integrate with the rear glass/hatch and if it will block rear view for the driver?

[CHOTIS BILL]

That is truly gorgeous. I have always been a fan of the double bubble roof design was this ever considered for the 818?

Bill Lomenick

[Kalstar]

Not to let the cat out of the bag but photoshoping this roof on is not going to give you an accurate depliction.

[Mechie3]

That shot includes the trunk area, you use the hatch access the engine

I should pay more attention while reading and look less at pictures.

[thall818]

I really like this design. I feel like the kid that gets the lego kit for Christmas. It's one of those kits that you can build different ways, and the kid just stares at the box trying to decide which way to build it.

I think it would look better with the rear quarter windows cut out and replaced with glass or louvers like on a Mustang. Or perhaps even scoops since they are meant to be functional.

I'll be very interested to see what they do with them on the prototype.

[Nuul]

I have wanted a coupe version since day one

I'm the same way. I'm still on the fence though about if I want one or not. I've been visiting Mechie3's house to watch his come together, I'm not sure I have the skill needed to build my own. I was hoping for a big lego kit but there's a lot more fab work than I was expecting. Still...after seeing that pic Dave posted it's tempting.

[TouchStone]

Very exciting! Been wait for the the hard top since I got the kit.

[AZPete]

Now my plan is to use the coupe top during the hot Arizona summer months, with my A/C, and use the soft top/no top during the nice winter months. I think I can suspend the coupe top from the garage ceiling for easy conversions. Maybe door poppers and maybe the door windows will work with the soft top. Probably should add defroster vents to my HVAC. Yippee, lots of plans and projects.

[BipDBo]

Looks great, but may I make a functional recommendation?

Don't use the roof scoop for intercooler air. Use this scoop for combustion air and the lower fender scoops for intercooler air.

First, the roof scoop is on a convex curve, so it will be a low pressure zone at speed, but air will ram into it. Secondly, when the car stops, the heat of the intercooler will cause the air to rise, and make it go backward, up through the roof. This will contribute to some degree of heat soak and take some thunder out of taking off when the light turns green. Subaru top mount intercoolers have had these problems a lot for these reasons, so many tuners have replaced their top mount intercoolers with front mount which breath upward, in the same direction as natural convection.
I propose that the intercooler intake be ducted from the rear fenders and then, if possible into the bottom of the intercooler, so that the air flows up, backwards through the intercooler and relieve upward into the engine bay. I think that there is enough clearance under the intercooler to mount a small plenum without modifying anything. With this bottom to top ducting, flow will be consistent. The roof scoop looks like a good size for combustion air. Air will be pulled from the engine bay through the bottom and rear which are low pressure areas.

I know that the 818 has been kind of plagued with airflow issues, specifically through the front mounted radiator. I've seen the various modifications made to FFR cars to try to solve this. The problem is not the intake but rather the outlet. The hood has a decent slope to it and the 818 hood vent is just a perforated panel. Because of that slope, that hood is likely more of an aerodynamic high pressure zone, which is normally a good thing, but in this case, it turns that perforated hood opening into a ram air intake. The hood opening fights with the front intake, and the front intake wins, but most of the air leaves sideways through the fenders. Much better airflow through the radiator might be achieved by replacing those perforated panels with sloped louver fins, the bigger the better. It would be best if the first fin protruded from the hood, and each additional fin was shorter, so that the trailing edges were level with each other. See my quick, crude drawing. This will create low pressure just over the opening, and draw air up, away from the radiator.
37878

[Dave Smith]

wind tunnel will tell all. I was going to post a bit more today but we were quite busy. More tomorrow.

[shinn497]

*dies*

(But take your time :3 :V)

[Speedy G]

I really don't like the roof scoop. I was hoping for something modifiable to a t-top so I could just take 2 pieces out for the convertible feel, and put them back in during rainy days. Also, with the current design the entire rear section would have to be replaced when switching from winter/rainy to summer/sunny weather.

Although the hood scoop might work to provide added airflow to the IC, I'm thinking they're going to have to do something so the airflow is properly directed to the underside of the intercooler (it's tilted backwards so it would be possible, but hard ). However, to do that you'd have to use large diameter flexible tubing so as to not be in the middle of the rear view mirror view. I'm really not sure how that's going to look or work, since tubing also reduces pressure. Just adding more air in the engine bay sure isn't going to reduce intake temps.

On the other hand, if you're going to replace the entire rear pannel, what would be cool is to have a summer top usable in the winter, also called a t-top. The IC airflow issue could be solved by mounting the IC facing sideways instead of up, maybe with larger side scoop like the one mechie3 is talking about in his cc scoop thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15749-Preliminary-Interest-Check-Carbon-Fiber-Side-Scoops/page2

Other than that, from the side, the design looks great, pretty much like vman7's. From the rear though, the square glass looks 90's mercedes S class, a bit dated.

[Flamshackle]

wind tunnel will tell all. I was going to post a bit more today but we were quite busy. More tomorrow.

Can't wait! Tomorrow is also my last day in the USA.

Photoshopping these images onto the exisiting car won't tell the full tale.

One thing I noticed from visiting FFR is that after following the development of this car keenly for a number of years that pics just didn't do the 818 justice. Seeing it in the flesh was amazing and the hard top will be no different im sure.

As for the scoop, again in the flesh it looks awesome, serves an excellent purpose and trust me it is well functional and it won't just be dumbly poked into the engine bay but will be well directed to ensure the cooler gets the air it needs.

I am peaking to see this new couoe presented and see what the wind tunnel results will be.

Stunning work FFR!

[Flamshackle]

Looks great, but may I make a functional recommendation?

Don't use the roof scoop for intercooler air. Use this scoop for combustion air and the lower fender scoops for intercooler air.

First, the roof scoop is on a convex curve, so it will be a low pressure zone at speed, but air will ram into it. Secondly, when the car stops, the heat of the intercooler will cause the air to rise, and make it go backward, up through the roof. This will contribute to some degree of heat soak and take some thunder out of taking off when the light turns green. Subaru top mount intercoolers have had these problems a lot for these reasons, so many tuners have replaced their top mount intercoolers with front mount which breath upward, in the same direction as natural convection.
I propose that the intercooler intake be ducted from the rear fenders and then, if possible into the bottom of the intercooler, so that the air flows up, backwards through the intercooler and relieve upward into the engine bay. I think that there is enough clearance under the intercooler to mount a small plenum without modifying anything. With this bottom to top ducting, flow will be consistent. The roof scoop looks like a good size for combustion air. Air will be pulled from the engine bay through the bottom and rear which are low pressure areas.
37878

This is a super premature recommendation re the roof scoop...

Two things for me here. Firstly the wind tunnel will reveal the results of the dark magic that is fluid dynamics and prove what the scoop does or doesn't do. You really can never make a call just by a few pics on that. Second the "heat soaked when stopped" issue is a total moot point as when does this car get bogged down in traffic? Litterally 20 seconds of driving later it will be cool again anyway.

Most peope have derided Subaru for years for this design but that point has been driven by missunderstanding and undeveloped thinking rather than an actual bad design. I have exclusively owned and built Subarus for the last 16 years as well as developing and building my own top AND front mounted inter coolers for them. I can tell you emphatically that after MANY hours of personal testing with sensitive pressure testing equipment that the top mounted stock cooler is a solid design and a highly functional unit. If going for power (flow) gains then it immediately needs replacing. At stock boost levels however front mounted units actually decrease performance rather than create any real benefit.

Before the release of the hard top couoe I was going to go air/water, now I will simply install one of my own sheet metal designed hugh flow top mounts and ensure their is a good pressure differential between the top and bottom of the core.

Can't wait to see the wind tunnel measurement.

[longislandwrx]

Not to let the cat out of the bag but photoshoping this roof on is not going to give you an accurate depliction.

obviously... but who can wait that long.

[ClemsonS197]

Looks like a Cayman and an Elise had a love child.

[Kalstar]

Looks like a Cayman and an Elise had a love child.

I was thinking more like an Audi TT and a 2015 Mustang got it on. I would be very suprised if anyone flat out dislikes this set up. In my book it is a home run. I will say this, no one will mistake it for a Cayman....those are girl cars (yes Dave I went there.....again).

[David Hodgkins]

wind tunnel will tell all. I was going to post a bit more today but we were quite busy. More tomorrow.

Ahem... (Cough, cough)

:)

[Flamshackle]

Looks like a Cayman and an EXIGE had a love child.

There I fixed it for you... Absolutely agree! I agree with Kalatar, After seeing it I think this new shape will put the 818 firmly in the "exotic and stunning" category for the vast majority of viewers.

Bring on my order!

[Mechie3]

I like roof scoops. The Exige S uses the roof scoop for the intercooler.

[bbjones121]

So do i cut up my chassis for vintage air box or not? Sounds like they will need to offer a/c and heater add-on.

[Sgt.Gator]

I cancelled my 818R a few months ago. This changes everything for me. I predict the coupe will become the real R or race version because of better high speed aero and better cooling for the intercooler. I hope the design includes provision to install a full cage with roof halo, front hoop, and all the regular cage requirements for racing. And I PRAY there is enough headroom once the cage is installed!!!!!!!!!

[mindinclouds]

Posted by Dave at the beginning of the thread...




The 818C hard top is designed to retro-fit to all current 818S models. It will not fit the 818R. The design includes the following features:




I cancelled my 818R a few months ago. This changes everything for me. I predict the coupe will become the real R or race version because of better high speed aero and better cooling for the intercooler. I hope the design includes provision to install a full cage with roof halo, front hoop, and all the regular cage requirements for racing. And I PRAY there is enough headroom once the cage is installed!!!!!!!!!

[Mechie3]

I think he wants to take an S and add his own roll cage to fit inside the 818C, not retrofit an 818R.

[longislandwrx]

He is saying more people may start building the coupes as dedicated race cars. A coupe fitting main hoop, and door friendly side impact protection wouldn't be hard to add to the S or modify on the R. Other than that the R is nothing more than a set of shocks/springs. I wouldn't be surprised if FFR offers a modified 818CR chassis in the future that combines both elements.

[Silvertop]

I really like this design. I feel like the kid that gets the lego kit for Christmas. It's one of those kits that you can build different ways, and the kid just stares at the box trying to decide which way to build it.

I think it would look better with the rear quarter windows cut out and replaced with glass or louvers like on a Mustang. Or perhaps even scoops since they are meant to be functional.

I'll be very interested to see what they do with them on the prototype.

Based on Dave Smith's description in Post #2 of this thread, the triangle shaped area on the hardtop is INTENDED for rear quarter glass. I'm betting the glass will be provided.

[FFRSpec72]

I cancelled my 818R a few months ago. This changes everything for me. I predict the coupe will become the real R or race version because of better high speed aero and better cooling for the intercooler. I hope the design includes provision to install a full cage with roof halo, front hoop, and all the regular cage requirements for racing. And I PRAY there is enough headroom once the cage is installed!!!!!!!!!

Not sure about this prediction as the Coupe has never taken over the Roadster for racing, the roadster is still the dominate racer, the Couple is also harder to fit in then the Roadster with the cage, getting in/out is a task

[Brando]

Just a quick mock-up. I would have to adjust everything to get the camera angles to match the side view picture of the 818.
37870

Vman do you remember creating this hard top possibility back in 2012? (i think that was you)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/glevii/818targa.png (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/glevii/media/818targa.png.html)

Not far off man!

[Flamshackle]

Based on Dave Smith's description in Post #2 of this thread, the triangle shaped area on the hardtop is INTENDED for rear quarter glass. I'm betting the glass will be provided.

Dave did say that it would be glass.

Even if it wasn't (which it is) it would be a simple case of cut and fit. It's just fibreglass so it's easy to do.

[Dave Smith]

We are building the chassis for the 818C right now. As a way of answering your question about the cage, the hard top as it is right now will not fit the existing cage. Funny thing is that we had this conversation just a few days ago, lamenting the fact that we have to build a street car coupe first (there is more demand) and looking at the Coupe basics. Jim's heart is really into building a race version since the 818R is so damn fast and a coupe version will add so many plus factors. I am of the same mind. Still, street version takes priority based on demand. Still it would be so uncharacteristic for us to not follow the obvious evolution of the 818 Coupe to the track. It is a very capable platform.

Also, yes, the tooling is being made for glass quarter windows and rear hatch (included) to join the windshield and side windows.

[DodgyTim]

Dave
Great news a coupe top for the R may be in the future. Lots of the tarmac rallies in Australia now frown upon open top cars, something to do with trees????:confused:

[BrandonDrums]

What can I say, from what I've seen, every single point that I hoped would come with a coupe version has been realized. Style, cooling, removability and even power windows! My 818 fund starts now. Color this NC boy excited....very very excited.

Might even have to come up for the Summer Open House!

[Oppenheimer]

DAAAAHUM!!! That looks better than I ever imagined it could, and we haven't even seen it on the car yet! I'm sure it will look even better once its a complete picture. Can you spell HoF?

PLUS there is a roof scoop, side scoops AND rollup windows!!!! Are you kidding me?? UN-BEE-LEAVABLE.

I predict growing interest in adding A/C.

[C.Plavan]

We are building the chassis for the 818C right now. As a way of answering your question about the cage, the hard top as it is right now will not fit the existing cage. Funny thing is that we had this conversation just a few days ago, lamenting the fact that we have to build a street car coupe first (there is more demand) and looking at the Coupe basics. Jim's heart is really into building a race version since the 818R is so damn fast and a coupe version will add so many plus factors. I am of the same mind. Still, street version takes priority based on demand. Still it would be so uncharacteristic for us to not follow the obvious evolution of the 818 Coupe to the track. It is a very capable platform.

Also, yes, the tooling is being made for glass quarter windows and rear hatch (included) to join the windshield and side windows.

Lets get an Factory 818R running reliably and that can finish races first before going 818RC :)

The design looks great, very impressed. I prefer a coupe for racing. Please make it that us 818R owners can upgrade to the coupe design. Since these are race cars, I do not mind cutting out the existing rollbars and welding new ones in. It would be hard to get through the window with the current 818R rollbar :)

[flynntuna]

Vman do you remember creating this hard top possibility back in 2012? (i think that was you)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/glevii/818targa.png (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/glevii/media/818targa.png.html)

Not far off man!

I think he did this one to...37922

[Vman7]

I think he did this one to...37922

I didn't do that red one.

[TouchStone]

Now my plan is to use the coupe top during the hot Arizona summer months, with my A/C, and use the soft top/no top during the nice winter months. I think I can suspend the coupe top from the garage ceiling for easy conversions. Maybe door poppers and maybe the door windows will work with the soft top. Probably should add defroster vents to my HVAC. Yippee, lots of plans and projects.

I want to do the same since I'm in Texas. Using the hard top in the Summer and Winter and no top during Spring and Fall.

[wallace18]

Will the retro fit hardtop replace both rear top panels? Hump panel and trunk panel? I am asking because this is a question I have for a build I am doing now.

[D2W]

I've got to admit I was one of the guys who does not care for certain aspects of the current body design. With this hardtop and the possibility of other new body panels I am once again intrigued. Can not wait to see it on a finished car. Great job Dave, I'm glad you are continuing with the Swatch watch concept

[2FAST4U]

That's going to be one very wicked car!

[Flamshackle]

I've got to admit I was one of the guys who does not care for certain aspects of the current body design. With this hardtop and the possibility of other new body panels I am once again intrigued. Can not wait to see it on a finished car. Great job Dave, I'm glad you are continuing with the Swatch watch concept

You will not be dissapointed mate.


Will the retro fit hardtop replace both rear top panels? Hump panel and trunk panel? I am asking because this is a question I have for a build I am doing now.

looks like it does on the pics.

[Dave Smith]

The Coupe/removable hard top is definitely going to affect the rear panels. The original design goal of a "paint-free" body was really derided as we came up a bit short on the process (likely the only design goal out of maybe 12 that wasn't executed fully), but the related benefits even without thermoformed machine made panels at this point were also that as qtr panels and body panels more akin to a modern car than a larger fiberglass body vintage replica, without seams, the panels are less expensive to make, easier to change, and as long as the chassis/steel mount points are maintained, easy to upgrade any serial numbered 818, thereby rewarding the early adopters while using the success of the design to drive accelerated versions. The success of the platform drives changes/upgrades and derivatives so the "swatch watch" philosophy is intact with the 818S, followed by the 818R and 818C and perhaps further, looking at power trains and other derivatives years down the road. As far as reliability is concerned, the cars have logged tons of miles under serious track testing and are pretty tough, we're just really pushing the edge of failure in a lot of areas with the car as part of a fairly well-thought out testing and development regimen (and as part of a hair-brained television pilot!) that is, of course constrained to a budget somewhat less than a Formula 1 team. :) We've logged tons of laps and miles in the development cars and I was simply sharing my sincere desire to see a track prepped 818C that will HAVE to come after the street coupe. The level of success of the 818 is phenomenal from SEMA awards, design awards, press, sheer volume of on-line builds and really exceptional performance. Lastly, while I am never going to be "happy" with where we are since my job is the future more than the present, I can't help but feel immense pride in the team and customers involved in the early stages of this 818 story. Compared to other efforts to launch new designs in the component car industry, the team has executed the goals stage by stage with patience, hard work, maturity, (a thick skin), and kindness, never taking their eyes off the ball and never forgetting that the real role of this car is not to sell this week or this month, but to add to the company's long term foundational efforts to become a truly great iconic american sportscar company whose greatness will be defined by the quality, performance and real value of our cars as much as by the stories and friendships those cars build. What I learned from all the conflict with Shelby was that a great company or great car is really a great story that is fun to share. It may sound a bit dramatic to say it that way, but that is the simple clear reason for the 818 to exist and to continue to evolve in support of the design goals that exist to support the long term goals that are quite ambitious. Late night and I better stop typing. slammed today, but 818 progress report is coming.

[Buzz Skyline]

Thanks Dave, for making a great product and providing a great experience. It's not perfect, but nothing is. I've had a blast with my build, and expect to have years of fun with the 818 when I finish. (I am also going to be one of the first in line for the coupe top, so I can have a roadster in the summer and a coupe in the winter.)

[Hindsight]

Thanks for the updates Dave. The 818 is a great platform and I'm looking forward to future upgrades. I really like the backwards compatible retrofit plan and I think it will be a big selling point for future customers. I'm not really aware of any other manufacturer doing something similar. It will also help us existing customers to know that we'll never get bored because there will be a stream of new innovations we can retrofit over time.

[Mechie3]

Thanks Dave. I'm looking forward to seeing what else you come out with. :)

[FFR-ADV]

I didn't do that red one.

37991

I am responsible for any shortcomings in the red car photo edit in 2012 which I did to inspire the development of a hardtop for the 818. Thankfully David (AKA Vman7) agreed to adapt the lovely top from his Vantage design to Jim's 818. I am personally excited to see the wonderful job Factory Five has done bringing the hardtop into reality. The photos in the beginning of this thread hint at a potential new front end. There is also a curious and interesting rear end sitting up high on a shelf in the background of several pictures.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8022-818ST-for-818-Targa-Photo-Edits&highlight=hardtop

Thank you to Dave, Jim, Jesper, John and the entire FFR team for bringing our hardtop 818 dreams into reality. You have done allot of hard work, solving problems we haven't even thought of. Thank you for all of your efforts which still remain to bring this project to completion. You and your efforts are truly appreciated.

[Sgt.Gator]

Regarding a cage, it looks like it's going to be difficult to get the main hoop top 2" above the drivers helmet, at least for a 6'3" guy like me. A race coupe version would need to fit over the R version main hoop, which would require a redesigned and expensive coupe top just for us racers.
I've seen the drivers seat dropped thru the floor before to fit taller guys in C5Z06 race cars, but it's generally not a good idea, and some rules ban the practice.
I guess it's wait and see time for the Open House next summer to figure if there's a way to modify the fit to pass the rules if one wanted to use an 818C as a platform for a caged car.

[gwarden]

Are there any plans to incorporate the power windows into a soft top?

[aks801]

Looks like I picked a GREAT time to do a periodic check-in with the 818 world! This Coupe could be a real game-changer for me. I have been planning for some time to build the roadster, i.e. rhymes with Schmobra, and that is still my first auto passion. BUT, I have had this idea running around in my head lately that involves turbo-charged flat 4 engines with modern electronics. Ahem.

I have the distinct impression that the 818 world is largely populated with younger builders than myself (53), but this middle-aged dinosaur may just join the boxer tuner community and have a blast with one of these!

Anyway: very exciting new from FFR, can't wait to see it really unveiled this summer.

[Flamshackle]

Regarding a cage, it looks like it's going to be difficult to get the main hoop top 2" above the drivers helmet, at least for a 6'3" guy like me. A race coupe version would need to fit over the R version main hoop, which would require a redesigned and expensive coupe top just for us racers.
I've seen the drivers seat dropped thru the floor before to fit taller guys in C5Z06 race cars, but it's generally not a good idea, and some rules ban the practice.
I guess it's wait and see time for the Open House next summer to figure if there's a way to modify the fit to pass the rules if one wanted to use an 818C as a platform for a caged car.

I am 6'5" and I would disagree... With the exisiting seat in the FFR 818 there is loads of space above my head on the soft top. With a different lower seat you could realizs more than enough real estate for a halo hoop above IMO

[flynntuna]

37991

I am responsible for any shortcomings in the red car photo edit in 2012 which I did to inspire the development of a hardtop for the 818. Thankfully David (AKA Vman7) agreed to adapt the lovely top from his Vantage design to Jim's 818. I am personally excited to see the wonderful job Factory Five has done bringing the hardtop into reality. The photos in the beginning of this thread hint at a potential new front end. There is also a curious and interesting rear end sitting up high on a shelf in the background of several pictures.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8022-818ST-for-818-Targa-Photo-Edits&highlight=hardtop

Thank you to Dave, Jim, Jesper, John and the entire FFR team for bringing our hardtop 818 dreams into reality. You have done allot of hard work, solving problems we haven't even thought of. Thank you for all of your efforts which still remain to bring this project to completion. You and your efforts are truly appreciated.


Sorry for not getting the credit right, I saved the photo to my ipad but couldn't remember who did it.
The hardtop that's coming from FFR looks to be a winner inspired by you and Vman. The targa you worked up hopefully will some day come about. It's more in line wit what I have in mind for my future build.

[FFR-ADV]

No problem. My work was just a GIMP photo edit inspired by Vman7's Vantage design. John, Jim and the rest of FFR did the real heavy lifting to make this 818 hardtop real.

38002 38003

I am real curios about that black (CF?) "TVR like" rear end seen on the shelf behind the hardtop in these photos.

Thanks for sharing so much of the 818 hardtop development with us Dave!

[Turboguy]

Is that an 818 rear or is it, perhaps, part of one of the original GTM mules ?

[carbon fiber]

Looks like a 65 coupe front end in black gelcoat.

[Kalstar]

Looks like a 65 coupe front end in black gelcoat.

Bingo...we have a winner.

[Turboguy]

Do we?

http://image.hotrod.com/f/9419185+w660+h440+cr1/142_0403_debut_04_z.jpg

[carbon fiber]

38006Yes we do. What do I win?

[Turboguy]

Yes, looks like you do win ;)


Wasn't sure how many around these parts were familiar with the original GTM mule :)

[R.Spec]

All i can say is Oooh la la. Better start saving hundres in my piggy bank. Cause I expect that top to exceed 5+ grand. :(

Curious as to how the hard top seals and attaches to the current model.

[FFR-ADV]

Dave was clear that pricing was still not done. But the removable hardtop for the 33 Hot Rod pricing is:

33784 - Removable Hard Top Package ($1999)
33783 - Power Windows and Door Handles for Removable Hard Top ($499)

https://www.factoryfive.com/order-a-kit/33-hot-rod-complete-kit/

Last March Dave probed the community for removable hardtop interest:

"The 818S soft top looks good and is VERY weather tight affording owners a good all-weather option even good enough for air conditioning. The demand, however, for a removable hard top has been difficult to gauge, so I've decided to ask the people who have supported the 818 project the most (our customers) a question about the hard top."

"Question: Would you purchase a removable hard top for your 818S (the R roll bar is too high)? The target price is $1,999.
Removable hard top concept by Factory Five Forum member VMan using actual 818S studio photo. Development of the hard top has not been given the green light and your feedback will help determine if we slate this for production."

Factory Five has done a great job hitting 818 technical and price goals so far, so hopefully they can hit the delivery and target price.

I would expect that the door frame mods might be extra for 818S owners, vs post 818C builds.

I hope to have this hardtop on my 818s!

Thank you Dave for delivering a HOF hardtop for the 818!

[Flamshackle]

Dave was clear that pricing was still not done. But the removable hardtop for the 33 Hot Rod pricing is:

33784 - Removable Hard Top Package ($1999)
33783 - Power Windows and Door Handles for Removable Hard Top ($499)

https://www.factoryfive.com/order-a-kit/33-hot-rod-complete-kit/

Last March Dave probed the community for removable hardtop interest:

"The 818S soft top looks good and is VERY weather tight affording owners a good all-weather option even good enough for air conditioning. The demand, however, for a removable hard top has been difficult to gauge, so I've decided to ask the people who have supported the 818 project the most (our customers) a question about the hard top."

"Question: Would you purchase a removable hard top for your 818S (the R roll bar is too high)? The target price is $1,999.
Removable hard top concept by Factory Five Forum member VMan using actual 818S studio photo. Development of the hard top has not been given the green light and your feedback will help determine if we slate this for production."

Factory Five has done a great job hitting 818 technical and price goals so far, so hopefully they can hit the delivery and target price.

I would expect that the door frame mods might be extra for 818S owners, vs post 818C builds.

I hope to have this hardtop on my 818s!

Thank you Dave for delivering a HOF hardtop for the 818!

Except to say that there is more to this new couoe than simply a hard top. If power windows are included they most likely will be custom built so that's not a cheap addition. Not to mention any other developments that will be included in the couoe.

I wonder if the top could be purchased as a stand alone option without windows or other mods? Can't wait to see it at the open house!

[Sgt.Gator]

I am 6'5" and I would disagree... With the exisiting seat in the FFR 818 there is loads of space above my head on the soft top. With a different lower seat you could realizs more than enough real estate for a halo hoop above IMO

That's good news. But I'll still wait till the Open House before I put money down again.
Thanks!

[Hindsight]

I think it all depends on torso length and not overall height. I'm only 6' and with a very thin (almost no cushion) fiberglass racing bucket sitting directly on the floor with no rails, my head is only an inch or so below the rollbar.

[metalmaker12]

All i can say is Oooh la la. Better start saving hundres in my piggy bank. Cause I expect that top to exceed 5+ grand. :(

Curious as to how the hard top seals and attaches to the current model.

I speculate from some insider info that the 818 hardtop package will be $3,500.

Power windows
Different door frames,
Secrets secrets

[bhmax]

Looks good! This is news I was hoping to see for the 818. I vote for a targa option also! I've got an ej207 wrx that will be turned into a C for sure at some point!

[R.Spec]

Tried my best.

http://i.imgur.com/QnLETif.jpg

[rickyracer]

Wow R.Spec That looks spectacular. Really gives an idea of what it will look like. Nice

[WIS89]

I speculate from some insider info that the 818 hardtop package will be $3,500.

Power windows
Different door frames,
Secrets secrets

While $3,500 is not cheap, there's a whole lot of value for that price. The functionality it gives you really changes everything about the car!

Can't wait to see the final version.

Regards,

Steve

[Silvertop]

While $3,500 is not cheap, there's a whole lot of value for that price. The functionality it gives you really changes everything about the car!

Can't wait to see the final version.

Regards,

Steve

Must agree. For that money, you get a beautiful hardtop, plus a power windows package. And it's only a little more expensive than the soft top package, which only comes with side curtains. That doesn't make the soft top a bad deal. Just depends on what you want. I'll probably still go for the soft top. If they should happen to come up with Targa version of the coupe, then I'll have a really, really difficult choice to make............

[BipDBo]

This is a super premature recommendation re the roof scoop...

Two things for me here. Firstly the wind tunnel will reveal the results of the dark magic that is fluid dynamics and prove what the scoop does or doesn't do. You really can never make a call just by a few pics on that. Second the "heat soaked when stopped" issue is a total moot point as when does this car get bogged down in traffic? Litterally 20 seconds of driving later it will be cool again anyway.

Most people have derided Subaru for years for this design but that point has been driven by missunderstanding and undeveloped thinking rather than an actual bad design. I have exclusively owned and built Subarus for the last 16 years as well as developing and building my own top AND front mounted inter coolers for them. I can tell you emphatically that after MANY hours of personal testing with sensitive pressure testing equipment that the top mounted stock cooler is a solid design and a highly functional unit. If going for power (flow) gains then it immediately needs replacing. At stock boost levels however front mounted units actually decrease performance rather than create any real benefit.

Before the release of the hard top couoe I was going to go air/water, now I will simply install one of my own sheet metal designed hugh flow top mounts and ensure their is a good pressure differential between the top and bottom of the core.

Can't wait to see the wind tunnel measurement.


The Subaru top mount intercooler, and likely, this roof scoop intercooler design is perfectly well functioning while the car is moving. Subaru has a proven rally record with it. The problem is that when it stops, the heat rises. This will be a bigger problem with the roof scoop and longer duct, because it will take longer and require more forward speed to purge the duct of hot air.
I'm not talking about a problem sitting in sop and go traffic. You said yourself "Literally 20 seconds of driving later it will be cool again anyway." So a guy pulls up in his new $60,000 and revs his engine. You want to put him in his place with your $15,000 818. You rev your engine. The light turns green. You punch it, but when you do, you don't have full power, and the race is over long before 20 seconds is up, (because you're on public roads so you of course, will only jump up to the speed limit). The same problem will arise at the drag strip.

The biggest advantage to the stock top mount design is short ducting, and therefore, quicker response. Front mount retrofits are likely most often done, as you say to chase power gains, and putting it in front is the only option when you are putting in a physically larger intercooler. The added benefit, however, is seen at the drag strip, the cooler intercooler while at a standstill, giving you more available power when you hit the gas.
What I'm proposing is to keep the stock top mount intercooler. Just duct it to work with gravity (convection), not fight against it.

The wind tunnel testing, won't necessarily tell all, as Dave states. If the car is not running while in the wind tunnel, with the engine and intercooler hot, it will not show the same airflow over the intercooler as in the real world. It's going to be very easy in the wind tunnel to tell if wind is going into the scoop, but measuring how much airflow will be much more difficult. FFR has had undeniable problems with getting enough flow over the 818 radiator even after wind tunnel test seem to show the initial design would work. I guarantee that if the intercooler is ducted from low to high, with convection, it will work better and in more circumstances, such as getting the most air into your cylinders when accelerating from a stop.

[BipDBo]

The hardtop would be much more appealing if it included enough structure to contribute to safety, rather then just an overhead shell. The biggest advantage to a car's roof is the structure it afford, both for safety and rigidity. It doesn't sound like this hardtop will offer this at all.
It sounds like the plan is to design an 818C first, but it is essentially a roadster with a lightweight, non-safety shell bolted on top. Later, an 818C-R may be designed with a full cage. That gets the coupe out there more quickly, and available for retrofits, but is it the best plan? Why not use the coupe to merge the street and R versions into one? Make one chassis design, with a full roof cage structure, that is door friendly. The street version could be fitted with hinged doors. The R version could have bolt-in cage doors, compliant to FIA or whatever racing body FFR chooses.

The way the current hard-top seems to be going, it's a hard-top that's really not a hardtop, more for show than function. This design, using the existing 818S roadster chassis, might be better released with separate panels in front and behind the roll bar. The roof panel, between the windshield and roll bar could be made to be easily removed, essentially making a targa. This would give the styling of the hardtop, the ability to use real roll-up windows, better rain protection, and sunshine when you want it.

My posts may seem pretty critical, but please don't take them as a lack of support of the 818 or FFR. I think that FFR's work, particularly the 818, is some of the coolest stuff in the automotive world. It is an honor just being able to have my input heard on the development of such exciting products.

[wleehendrick]

The hardtop would be much more appealing if it included enough structure to contribute to safety, rather then just an overhead shell. The biggest advantage to a car's roof is the structure it afford, both for safety and rigidity. It doesn't sound like this hardtop will offer this at all.

It's already been mentioned, that with the hard-top you can always weld in a full cage if you want more protection than the S provides. Designing the coupe to go over the current R's bar would probably end up looking dorky.


The way the current hard-top seems to be going, it's a hard-top that's really not a hardtop, more for show than function.

Well, it functions to keep warm air in the cockpit and rain off your head. The goal of the coupe and roll-up windows is to make the 818 all weather.

[Niburu]

Well, it functions to keep warm air in the cockpit and rain off your head. The goal of the coupe and roll-up windows is to make the 818 all weather.

i have a Miata with a hardtop, and that's all it does.
And slightly improve the aero.

[BipDBo]

Vman do you remember creating this hard top possibility back in 2012? (i think that was you)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/glevii/818targa.png (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/glevii/media/818targa.png.html)

Not far off man!

Dave insists that the coupe was a full in house design, but it's hard not to see a lot of similarity between what they are building and Vman's photoshop job. Yes, they did design this in house, but I think they took some inspiration from Vman. FFR jumpstarted the 818 with a design contest and set up this forum for a reason. It's clear that FFR reads the forum and listens to what people like. Dave obviously values the input from their customers and fans. The biggest difference I see, is that FFR is putting in a small window in the rear quarter panel, where Vman shows it solid. That window, I think is a big improvement. Other wise, you have a substantial blindspot. FFR is also using the same scoop on the bottom of the b-pillar that Vman shows, which I think, will look pretty cool and may prove very useful.

The big rear window, however, I'm personally not a fan of. Having glass over your engine might look cool at the car show, but I'd rather keep the sun off of my engine, especially since horizontal glass traps so much solar heat. I think a small vertical rear window like on this Corvette would be much better:
38106
Alternately, they could keep the current design, which is more aerodynamic, but for buyers who don't want the horizontal glass, add one more option. It could be shipped with the rear glass or the window behind the seats. Instead, it could be shipped with a solid fire wall panel to go behind the seats. To replace the glass, it could have a lighter-weight, fiberglass panel, either solid or possibly with vents, like this:
38107
This would allow the roof scoop duct to go straight down rather than snake to the side. IMO, rearview mirrors are overrated. With such a sloping roof line, you can angle your side mirrors to see who's behind you.

[BipDBo]

Well, it functions to keep warm air in the cockpit and rain off your head. The goal of the coupe and roll-up windows is to make the 818 all weather.

Keeping in the warm air and the rain off your head could be accomplished with the roadster. It already comes with a good soft top option. Roll up windows are the biggest improvement. But I doubt they need the hard top to make those windows work. Perhaps I'm wrong and the water proofing challenges of making a soft-top with roll up windows are too great, but I'd bet FFR could figure it out.

[AZPete]

BipDBo, since you are searching for negatives with the coupe top I thought I'd help you by suggesting a slow-dimming dome light, digital compass, sunglass holder, clothes hook, grab handle, reading light, vanity mirror (lighted) and garage opener transmitter. There most be more others can add.

[D2W]

Dave insists that the coupe was a full in house design, but it's hard not to see a lot of similarity between what they are building and Vman's photoshop job. Yes, they did design this in house, but I think they took some inspiration from Vman. FFR jumpstarted the 818 with a design contest and set up this forum for a reason. It's clear that FFR reads the forum and listens to what people like. Dave obviously values the input from their customers and fans. The biggest difference I see, is that FFR is putting in a small window in the rear quarter panel, where Vman shows it solid. That window, I think is a big improvement. Other wise, you have a substantial blindspot. FFR is also using the same scoop on the bottom of the b-pillar that Vman shows, which I think, will look pretty cool and may prove very useful.

The big rear window, however, I'm personally not a fan of. Having glass over your engine might look cool at the car show, but I'd rather keep the sun off of my engine, especially since horizontal glass traps so much solar heat. I think a small vertical rear window like on this Corvette would be much better:
38106
Alternately, they could keep the current design, which is more aerodynamic, but for buyers who don't want the horizontal glass, add one more option. It could be shipped with the rear glass or the window behind the seats. Instead, it could be shipped with a solid fire wall panel to go behind the seats. To replace the glass, it could have a lighter-weight, fiberglass panel, either solid or possibly with vents, like this:
38107
This would allow the roof scoop duct to go straight down rather than snake to the side. IMO, rearview mirrors are overrated. With such a sloping roof line, you can angle your side mirrors to see who's behind you.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone saying the roof scoop is going to be ducted to the intercooler only that it would dump into the engine bay. As far as the rear window there is already going to be a vertical one to separate the cabin from the engine compartment the rear one could be replaced by screens or louvers or whatever you can come up with.

[Kalstar]

This forum is so PC, which I guess is why it is so helpful. That said (I hear the Ban hammer coming to beat me about the head and shoulders) but.... why are you so intent on bashing everything. Your posts all the way back to 2011 have been so harsh. You have been critical from day one and insulting at times. There is a big difference between offering constructive criticism and bashing. This forum has always been open to ideas and sharing of information. Other then a handful of times, you seem hell bent on convincing the crowd that the 818 is a badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques. If you do not like it or have no interest in it, then move on. If you like what you see and want to make "builder changes" I say go for it (and I will be happy to lend advise). But this constant bashing is getting real old real quick. Many people have either already laid down there money, are in the mist of a build or are planning/dreaming of their adventure. Have some respect. In my book, constructive criticism...IE... ideas to improve are welcomed, crapping on it at every chance is not. Change your approach or get lost. If I am banned for speaking my truth then hopefully it is a short suspension.

[Kurk818]

This forum is so PC, which I guess is why it is so helpful. That said (I hear the Ban hammer coming to beat me about the head and shoulders) but.... why are you so intent on bashing everything. Your posts all the way back to 2011 have been so harsh. You have been critical from day one and insulting at times. There is a big difference between offering constructive criticism and bashing. This forum has always been open to ideas and sharing of information. Other then a handful of times, you seem hell bent on convincing the crowd that the 818 is a badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques. If you do not like it or have no interest in it, then move on. If you like what you see and want to make "builder changes" I say go for it (and I will be happy to lend advise). But this constant bashing is getting real old real quick. Many people have either already laid down there money, are in the mist of a build or are planning/dreaming of their adventure. Have some respect. In my book, constructive criticism...IE... ideas to improve are welcomed, crapping on it at every chance is not. Change your approach or get lost. If I am banned for speaking my truth then hopefully it is a short suspension.

I approve this message.

[bigAl]

"This forum is so PC, which I guess is why it is so helpful. That said (I hear the Ban hammer coming to beat me about the head and shoulders) but.... why are you so intent on bashing everything. Your posts all the way back to 2011 have been so harsh. You have been critical from day one and insulting at times. There is a big difference between offering constructive criticism and bashing. This forum has always been open to ideas and sharing of information. Other then a handful of times, you seem hell bent on convincing the crowd that the 818 is a badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques. If you do not like it or have no interest in it, then move on. If you like what you see and want to make "builder changes" I say go for it (and I will be happy to lend advise). But this constant bashing is getting real old real quick. Many people have either already laid down there money, are in the mist of a build or are planning/dreaming of their adventure. Have some respect. In my book, constructive criticism...IE... ideas to improve are welcomed, crapping on it at every chance is not. Change your approach or get lost. If I am banned for speaking my truth then hopefully it is a short suspension."

Personally I am confused by this post. After looking through the thread, I assume that Kalstar is offended by BipDBo's rather mild comments but maybe he is talking about someone else.
??

[BipDBo]

This forum is so PC, which I guess is why it is so helpful. That said (I hear the Ban hammer coming to beat me about the head and shoulders) but.... why are you so intent on bashing everything. Your posts all the way back to 2011 have been so harsh. You have been critical from day one and insulting at times. There is a big difference between offering constructive criticism and bashing. This forum has always been open to ideas and sharing of information. Other then a handful of times, you seem hell bent on convincing the crowd that the 818 is a badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques. If you do not like it or have no interest in it, then move on. If you like what you see and want to make "builder changes" I say go for it (and I will be happy to lend advise). But this constant bashing is getting real old real quick. Many people have either already laid down there money, are in the mist of a build or are planning/dreaming of their adventure. Have some respect. In my book, constructive criticism...IE... ideas to improve are welcomed, crapping on it at every chance is not. Change your approach or get lost. If I am banned for speaking my truth then hopefully it is a short suspension.

I don't think you should get banned for speaking your mind. I'm a big boy. I can take it.
I do have my faults. I'm a bit opinionated and persistent, but in general, I disagree with your assessment of my history here. I've been around since the design contest. If not for four young kids running around, I'd likely be an active builder. Someday. I have always been generally positive and excited about the 818 project, but as an engineer, it's in my nature to look for ways to make something better. So my posts have focused on what I see are insufficiencies of the current design, but don't take that to mean that I am bashing it. To the contrary, I have often been the defender. When Dave announced that the 818 was going to be the in-house design, many people had meltdown tantrums. I pointed out that the in house design took heavy cues from the third place entry, arguably the most popular one. Most of the differences were functional, to make it buildable. They then made drastic changes based on forum input. They really listened to people in their design, something no other company does, and many people were livid. Since then, there seems to have been a big cultural shift here. Those who have remained here, have seemed to me, to be too quick to circle the wagon at any suggestion that the 818 isn't perfect the way it is. I'm not trying to criticize, just offer some alternate ideas. But at sometimes, I'll have been too harsh, I admit.
When I build my own one day, I'll be able to do many things my own way, but some things, like adding significant roof structure may be too difficult.
I would never convey any of the following "badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques", yet i would not say that the 818 has no room for improvement. The "borrowed design cues' comment is especially confusing because my comments about the similarity to Vman7's design was meant as a compliment. Vman7 had some very popular renderings. I put it to FFR's credit that they seam to continue to be open to forum input, yet you seem to think I'm bashing them over it.

[BipDBo]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone saying the roof scoop is going to be ducted to the intercooler only that it would dump into the engine bay. As far as the rear window there is already going to be a vertical one to separate the cabin from the engine compartment the rear one could be replaced by screens or louvers or whatever you can come up with.

Dave stated on page 1 of this thread that the hood scoop was being designed for the intercooler. I actually like the scoop. I think it looks reall cool for one. It looks like a good duct for engine bay ventilation or combustion air. Another cool application for this scoop would be forced cabin air for a non-air conditioned build, just as they do on rally cars. I just don't think that the intercooler is wise application of it. That's OK because this is something that any builder can modify pretty easily. 10 different builders might find 10 different ways to duct the engine bay.
It seems that people are getting pretty weary about my rants anyway.
The rear window modification, is what I'm suggesting FFr could make as an option, just as you started. any people do like the glass. it does look cool to see your engine.

[R.Spec]

Can't get a good gloss effect. Any ideas vman or others?

http://i.imgur.com/HGHlyAO.jpg

[mjazzka]

I agree with bigAl, BipDBo's posts seem rather mild. I think he genuinely just wants to have some conversations about ideas for the 818, it just comes across as a bashing it a little bit. He's not being malicious. Then again, I haven't been around that long, so this is just my opinion on these past few posts.

Now for the 818C. One of the main reasons I ordered a 65 Coupe and not an 818 was because of the lack of a hard top option and roll up windows. I didn't take it to be an oversight by FFR, I just knew the 818 was still in development. But DANG, what a good job they did!!! Depending on how the Coupe goes, the 818C will be what I do next. FFR continues to impress me with their ability to satisfy their customers and take feedback. It's impossible to please everyone, but it seems like they gave it an honest effort! Thank you to all of the folks at FFR for all the work they put into this, you all did a GREAT job.

Now then, the real question is how many holes will need to be drilled everywhere to keep it at 818 kg :D

[Vman7]

Can't get a good gloss effect. Any ideas vman or others?

http://i.imgur.com/HGHlyAO.jpg

I love the color of that 818. It looks to be a very dark green.

I would say start off by changing the top color to as close as you can get to what you see in the car's color. Then you will have to do some shading with some lighter green, off grey, and off white. See how there is a hard line between the 2 shades of green on the front driver side fender. Try to do something like that on the A pillar, follow it through on the top and down the back..

The trick is to understand the lighting and where the shine should be.

Hope that helps some :)

David

[R.Spec]

I love the color of that 818. It looks to be a very dark green.

I would say start off by changing the top color to as close as you can get to what you see in the car's color. Then you will have to do some shading with some lighter green, off grey, and off white. See how there is a hard line between the 2 shades of green on the front driver side fender. Try to do something like that on the A pillar, follow it through on the top and down the back..

The trick is to understand the lighting and where the shine should be.

Hope that helps some :)

David


Maybe a touch better. This is hard!
http://i.imgur.com/ZLuIYqB.jpg

[Ellimist]

Now then, the real question is how many holes will need to be drilled everywhere to keep it at 818 kg :D
LOL, good thing they started with the roadster design - even then it was a bit heavier than 818. Anyways, I second (and third and four, etc.) the kudos that have been stated on this effort - very impressive stuff!

[Kalstar]

I don't think you should get banned for speaking your mind. I'm a big boy. I can take it.
I do have my faults. I'm a bit opinionated and persistent, but in general, I disagree with your assessment of my history here. I've been around since the design contest. If not for four young kids running around, I'd likely be an active builder. Someday. I have always been generally positive and excited about the 818 project, but as an engineer, it's in my nature to look for ways to make something better. So my posts have focused on what I see are insufficiencies of the current design, but don't take that to mean that I am bashing it. To the contrary, I have often been the defender. When Dave announced that the 818 was going to be the in-house design, many people had meltdown tantrums. I pointed out that the in house design took heavy cues from the third place entry, arguably the most popular one. Most of the differences were functional, to make it buildable. They then made drastic changes based on forum input. They really listened to people in their design, something no other company does, and many people were livid. Since then, there seems to have been a big cultural shift here. Those who have remained here, have seemed to me, to be too quick to circle the wagon at any suggestion that the 818 isn't perfect the way it is. I'm not trying to criticize, just offer some alternate ideas. But at sometimes, I'll have been too harsh, I admit.
When I build my own one day, I'll be able to do many things my own way, but some things, like adding significant roof structure may be too difficult.
I would never convey any of the following "badly designed, poorly executed, Turd with "borrowed" design ques", yet i would not say that the 818 has no room for improvement. The "borrowed design cues' comment is especially confusing because my comments about the similarity to Vman7's design was meant as a compliment. Vman7 had some very popular renderings. I put it to FFR's credit that they seam to continue to be open to forum input, yet you seem to think I'm bashing them over it.

This is the last I will speak of this on this thread, no need to muck up an otherwise happy thread. Like myself, you were on the 818 forums early in the game. You were over critical on every aspect of the project, I could spend the time going back, cutting and pasting your coments into this post but my time is worth more then that. I was irritated with you some time ago but I held my opinions. That was until last night. You do not post for some time then you come on a thread many have been watching closely to load on what you see as negatives. Not one but 3 long "you should have done it this way" posts. I am glad to hear that hopefully some day you will build one. Is the 818 perfect...no. Is it incredible for the performance/price ratio...absolutely. I am fortunate to have driven an 818 for a few 1000 miles so I have a perspective others do not. I have also seen the hardtop in the flesh and have information others do not. I have seen the planning and man hours put into this design and subsequent hardtop, I have seen the design struggles to (build off an idea) while keeping intact the design principle of an affordable rocketship. So yes I have a different perspective on things. Living as close as I do to the factory I see much that others have not and I take it nearly personal when someone is or has been insulting toward a symbol of my appreciation. I would suggest you look back at your posts and look at them in a light of....if I was on the other end would these coments be helpful or hurtful. Like I said, I will not post on this subject again, but so help me if you say it was Factory Five that deflated the Patriots footballs, I will reach through this computer. :cool:

[Niburu]

so help me if you say it was Factory Five that deflated the Patriots footballs, I will reach through this computer. :cool:

We all know Hillary is responsible for any ball deflation going on in this country.

[Santiago]

The way the current hard-top seems to be going, it's a hard-top that's really not a hardtop, more for show than function. This design, using the existing 818S roadster chassis, might be better released with separate panels in front and behind the roll bar. The roof panel, between the windshield and roll bar could be made to be easily removed, essentially making a targa. This would give the styling of the hardtop, the ability to use real roll-up windows, better rain protection, and sunshine when you want it.


I think there are a few things being taken for granted here that make this approach unfeasible at the moment. First, and I suspect most importantly, the R and S don't have the same height in their main hoops. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is, but from a visual look it's quite substantial. That makes a hardtop based off of the current R model difficult from a design standpoint. You're simply not going to get the same low sporty look out of the car. IMHO, it'll look like crap as high as the R-bar is now if you tried to simply bring it's line forward into a proposed windshield area. The current hard top is a multi-goal project, not the least of which is that it has to be visually appealing. You're not going to get the styling of this hardtop out of an R-based main hoop.

On that multi-goal point, you say the hardtop isn't functional, but that just speaks to one function (actually, a portion of one function, since a hardtop does offer greater protection from road debris, even in the event of a roll over). Clearly though, the hardtop satisfies many folks wish for expanding the car's climate capabilities. We're told that the soft-top is very weather-proof, but I'm sure some are not comfortable with this solution. Then there's longevity. How much longer is a cloth top going to retain its good looks under regular use in bad weather? Some folks are pretty serious about this car as a suitable daily driver. Then there's theft prevention; even a fiberglass hardtop is more secure than a cloth top.

Then there's the little creature comforts...you know, like side windows that go up and down w/o having to be zipped in.

The bottom line is that this top might not deliver on one design point, but it does deliver on the majority of other key goals. That's a win.

Best,
-j

[BipDBo]

This is the last I will speak of this on this thread, no need to muck up an otherwise happy thread. Like myself, you were on the 818 forums early in the game. You were over critical on every aspect of the project, I could spend the time going back, cutting and pasting your coments into this post but my time is worth more then that. I was irritated with you some time ago but I held my opinions. That was until last night. You do not post for some time then you come on a thread many have been watching closely to load on what you see as negatives. Not one but 3 long "you should have done it this way" posts. I am glad to hear that hopefully some day you will build one. Is the 818 perfect...no. Is it incredible for the performance/price ratio...absolutely. I am fortunate to have driven an 818 for a few 1000 miles so I have a perspective others do not. I have also seen the hardtop in the flesh and have information others do not. I have seen the planning and man hours put into this design and subsequent hardtop, I have seen the design struggles to (build off an idea) while keeping intact the design principle of an affordable rocketship. So yes I have a different perspective on things. Living as close as I do to the factory I see much that others have not and I take it nearly personal when someone is or has been insulting toward a symbol of my appreciation. I would suggest you look back at your posts and look at them in a light of....if I was on the other end would these coments be helpful or hurtful. Like I said, I will not post on this subject again, but so help me if you say it was Factory Five that deflated the Patriots footballs, I will reach through this computer. :cool:

I'm very sorry I've ticked you off, now and in the past. I'll try to be less of a jerk in the future.
Most people bite their lip and don't confront these kind of issues. If I'm a jerk here, I'm probably doing it in other aspects of my life as well. So, thank you for speaking up.
If it was you I got in an argument with about whether the 818 should have single or dual exhaust, I'm especially sorry. I was really abrasive that day.

I have not been around in a while because development from factory 5 has been quiet. I have though, followed some of the build threads and enjoyed seeing some of the cool work people are doing. 33's EV build was particularly cool.

I'll also try to keep in mind that this is a low volume car offered at a very affordable price. In retrospect, I see that saying that the chassis should be redesigned for the coupe was unrealistic. It will undoubtedly have some steel running under the roof from the roll bar to the windshield, which will give some protection and structure. There is precedent, afterall. Many cars such as the new Corvette are now being built on a chassis designed first as a roadster and then they just bolt on a roof for the coupe model. And as Santiago states, you could use a roadster with a soft-top as a daily driver, but a coupe with roll up windows is going to be a bit more comfortable.

So in summary, Factory 5 has always had my support. I think their products are some of the coolest stuff in the auto world. But I have been somewhat critical, opinionated and abrasive many times. For that, I'm sorry. I'll try to do better, both here and elsewhere.

[Kalstar]

I'm very sorry I've ticked you off, now and in the past. I'll try to be less of a jerk in the future.
Most people bite their lip and don't confront these kind of issues. If I'm a jerk here, I'm probably doing it in other aspects of my life as well. So, thank you for speaking up.
If it was you I got in an argument with about whether the 818 should have single or dual exhaust, I'm especially sorry. I was really abrasive that day.

I have not been around in a while because development from factory 5 has been quiet. I have though, followed some of the build threads and enjoyed seeing some of the cool work people are doing. 33's EV build was particularly cool.

I'll also try to keep in mind that this is a low volume car offered at a very affordable price. In retrospect, I see that saying that the chassis should be redesigned for the coupe was unrealistic. It will undoubtedly have some steel running under the roof from the roll bar to the windshield, which will give some protection and structure. There is precedent, afterall. Many cars such as the new Corvette are now being built on a chassis designed first as a roadster and then they just bolt on a roof for the coupe model. And as Santiago states, you could use a roadster with a soft-top as a daily driver, but a coupe with roll up windows is going to be a bit more comfortable.

So in summary, Factory 5 has always had my support. I think their products are some of the coolest stuff in the auto world. But I have been somewhat critical, opinionated and abrasive many times. For that, I'm sorry. I'll try to do better, both here and elsewhere.

You sir are my buddy again, if you ever get out to Massachussets I will give you a thrill ride in a completed 818.

[GUNS]

Man, so much drama up in here. I feel like I'm watching an episode of The Real Housewives of the 818 Forums.

Anywho, any chance there will be a roll up window option vs power windows?

[BipDBo]

Kalstar,
Thank you. Sounds Awesome.

Guns,
Sometimes guys just need to hug it out.

The 33 coupe has a power window and door handle package for $499. I would suspect that FFR would use the same kit. They might, however use a crank kit because that might be cheaper, easier to install and lighter by a few pounds. But power windows are much more popular.

I'm more curious about windshield wipers. The 33 coupe, I don't think is offered with a wiper kit, but different builders have come up with different ways of doing it. I would think that 95% of 818 builders would want to install wipers, so it would be nice if FFR built it into the package. There might be a lot of 818 builders who pan on daily driving them. It looks easy enough to do.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Man, so much drama up in here. I feel like I'm watching an episode of The Real Housewives of the 818 Forums.

Anywho, any chance there will be a roll up window option vs power windows?

IIRC Dave mentioned tooling for rear and side glass. Reading between the lines I suspect the windows and mechanism might be out of the donor. I haven't seen a wind up Subaru but I'm sure if you go back some years, you could find that mechanism.
Bob

[Kalstar]

The windows are power windows, the motors are not out of the donor. The delay in production is getting the windows to seal property...hence why windows will not work with the soft top (at least not as well). The roof and windshield are one piece and does have structural support (the exsisting roll bar hoop provides the most protection however). The roof scoop creates airflow (like the GTM's roof scoop) which will help in getting air to the intercooler. The opening dumps air very near the intercooler.

Guns if you need a hug....come one over.

Edit...wipers...

FFR does offer a wiper kit. I have it on my new 818. That said with the hard top and placement of the wiper on the windshield frame, one will need 2 kits. The motor and arm as well as electronics will stay in place but the rest will be specific to which windshield you are running. If you plan to use the roof like me (roadster part of the year, coupe the other) then the 2 kits will be needed.

[billjr212]

The windows are power windows, the motors are not out of the donor. The delay in production is getting the windows to seal property...hence why windows will not work with the soft top (at least not as well). The roof and windshield are one piece and does have structural support (the exsisting roll bar hoop provides the most protection however). The roof scoop creates airflow (like the GTM's roof scoop) which will help in getting air to the intercooler. The opening dumps air very near the intercooler.

Guns if you need a hug....come one over.

Edit...wipers...

FFR does offer a wiper kit. I have it on my new 818. That said with the hard top and placement of the wiper on the windshield frame, one will need 2 kits. The motor and arm as well as electronics will stay in place but the rest will be specific to which windshield you are running. If you plan to use the roof like me (roadster part of the year, coupe the other) then the 2 kits will be needed.

I thought Dave indicated the windshield was the exact same? Confused why 2 different wipers would be needed.

[Begin sarcasm] I don't understand what the big deal is with the windows sealing, it only took Chevy 50 years and hundreds of millions of dollars in development costs before they managed to keep Corvette buyers dry [/end sarcasm]

Thanks for the insight!

[AZPete]

I agree with Kalstar and now forgive you BipDBo. This site is so friendly and helpful that critiques are often viewed as trolls just trying to cause trouble, if not worded carefully. Now onward.

My plan is to buy the soft top and then the coupe top when it's available. Here in the AZ desert I need the soft top to easily convert from topless to soft top from October until May, but then put the coupe top on for the hot-hot summer months. That's why I've installed A/C. Now I'm chasing down a few wiring gremlins (ugh) then get plates, then charge A/C, then buy soft top. Then Coupe top.

[metalmaker12]

Days of out lives!!! Lol

Jim, how much snow did you get, and do you think the hardtop could hold it

[GUNS]

Kalstar,
Thank you. Sounds Awesome.

Guns,
Sometimes guys just need to hug it out.

The 33 coupe has a power window and door handle package for $499. I would suspect that FFR would use the same kit. They might, however use a crank kit because that might be cheaper, easier to install and lighter by a few pounds. But power windows are much more popular.

I'm more curious about windshield wipers. The 33 coupe, I don't think is offered with a wiper kit, but different builders have come up with different ways of doing it. I would think that 95% of 818 builders would want to install wipers, so it would be nice if FFR built it into the package. There might be a lot of 818 builders who pan on daily driving them. It looks easy enough to do.

I was just giving you guys a hard time ;). Overall power windows are more appealing however, I'd be more interested in roll up windows from an ease factor. For us early S guys, it'd be much easier to install roll up windows than try and retrofit power windows, especially if it uses potentially sold donor parts. Either way I'm just happy to see them continue to evolve the 818. I'm sure this addition will bode well for FFR.

[Canadian818]

Wow the drama, hope we didn't scare Dave away. Top looks amazing! Hopefully the wind tunnel testing will also include some R aero with the hardtop. This top is a must have for me, but it can wait until the car is finished and plated. Oh, and maybe not until the price of oil goes up, or your dollar comes down, lol.

[BipDBo]

One thing I liked about the 818S body was that it looks incredibly easy to fabricate a trunk with a small opening, but rather a large volume, right under the lid in the rear above the transaxle. There's a lot of space there to be used. The lid is there on the 818S, so all you need to do is keep the exhaust low and fabricate a pan sheet aluminum or fiberglass.
3816338164
I predict that the more weather worthy coupe will be used more often as a daily driver. A trunk would be nice.
Has anyone yet made such a trunk?
Does this still look like a possible modification for the coupe?

[Mechie3]

FFR is making a trunk.

[flytosail]

Great progress FFR!

[tmoretta]

I have added a "temporary spare" tire mount over the transaxle. The jack fits under the wheel, and the crank and tool bag are under the front hood.

[ffrcobra1654]

I like the "true removable" hardtop part. Any idea on what the added weight will be? And any idea of the $$$. I think this option will convince a lot more people that have ever lived "topless" to pull the trigger on this car. My wife will be SOOOOO HAPPY!!! and that means A LOT

[FFRWRX]

The original design goal of a "paint-free" body was really derided as we came up a bit short on the process (likely the only design goal out of maybe 12 that wasn't executed fully), but the related benefits even without thermoformed machine made panels at this point...

Yes, but this 1-out-of-12 that didn't make it is the one that makes a difference of $5,000+ in the build, a huge amount percentage wise in the build.

[Niburu]

Yes, but this 1-out-of-12 that didn't make it is the one that makes a difference of $5,000+ in the build, a huge amount percentage wise in the build.

Where do you pull a $5000 difference from in build cost?

[FFRWRX]

Where do you pull a $5000 difference from in build cost?

The paint-free panels obviously don't have to be painted, so the cost is $0. The cost to paint the car is at least $5000. Thus the difference. There may be some debate as to what it actually cost for bodywork and paint, but this would be close.

[Niburu]

The paint-free panels obviously don't have to be painted, so the cost is $0. The cost to paint the car is at least $5000. Thus the difference. There may be some debate as to what it actually cost for bodywork and paint, but this would be close.

Not from where I'm standing, I can get the body work painted or wrapped for half that.
If you're talking show quality finish, then the preformed thermoplastic panels would need to be painted too, as the finish on those would never be show quality either.

From FFR's stanpoint the thermoplastics panel probably won't be any cheaper than the fiberglass for the customer, as they would have to factor in the new equipment costs into the price of the thermoplastic panels.

[AZPete]

My white 818 panels are pretty good and after some wet sanding and polishing it looks better than most other white cars on the road. I have used the gel coat repair kit to fill a few corners, dings from shipping and a few "oops". In the future I might make a few changes or repair minor fender-benders, but with thermoplastic I'm guessing changes and repairs would be more difficult, right?

I'll get the coupe top as soon as it's available and I hope it is white fiberglass.

[dirty kurty]

I'm guessing changes and repairs would be more difficult, right?

Thermoplastic panels are generally the same color all the way through. So minor scratches/imperfections can be buffed out if you don't paint the panels. They also don't dent easily or permanently as long as the dent is popped out quickly.

edit: The other benefit is the plastic stock could be ordered in any color the maufacturer makes so custom colors would be possible instead of stock white or red.

[FFRWRX]

Not from where I'm standing, I can get the body work painted or wrapped for half that.

I'm afraid I can't believe that. I'm going by what it cost me 10 years ago to paint my roadster. This was a very nice paint job, but certainly not show quality. Can't see that the 818 would be drastically different in price. Easy enough to settle. For those that have had their 818's painted, what did it cost?

[Wayne Presley]

I'm afraid I can't believe that. I'm going by what it cost me 10 years ago to paint my roadster. This was a very nice paint job, but certainly not show quality. Can't see that the 818 would be drastically different in price. Easy enough to settle. For those that have had their 818's painted, what did it cost?


Mine was $8000 to paint, 6 colors and 24 coats of paint ain't cheap...

[metalmaker12]

Wayne went a bit overboard, but it looks killer. I did the bodywork (USC fillers and norton paper etc)primed ( five star primer)and painted my car. I went with spices hecker bright white 3 coats base and two clear. All material and boot rental was about 2k, it would be about 4-5k if you had a shop do it all.

It came out damn good for not going to nuts on the body or paint3873938740

[Santiago]

Not from where I'm standing, I can get the body work painted or wrapped for half that [$5K est.].
If you're talking show quality finish, then the preformed thermoplastic panels would need to be painted too, as the finish on those would never be show quality either.


Agreed. 100%

There's simply no way the minimum cost to paint a car is $5K...unless you're weighing the cost against a quality standard that neither thermoplastic nor fiberglass panels would meet right out of the mold. If you're painting the car yourself (and we are building this car ourselves aren't we), then the cost drops well below half that amount.

My panels (mid-to-late 2014 production run) are actually not bad looking at all. If I wasn't planning on body mods anyway, I'd run it as is - but mine is a track-only build. So again, we're back to user-defined standards for what needs to be done. Thermoplastic panels may have made a wider range of users happy enough, but I think there's a misconception that these would've been near perfect and satisfied most every builder's vision of what their car needs. Just based on color interests alone, you'd get painted cars.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to what the new hardtop looks when finished! Such cool developments keep coming from FFR!

Best,
-j

[indiana818]

i know it takes time to get a new design right! I am encouraged by the design and also excited to finally see a mock up
i think it will look great on my 818! Great job Dave take your time and do it right! It is worth it in the end

[Desertrunner]

Can anyone tell me what material and how the buck is made, the quality in the photos is brilliant. Was it CNCed then finished by hand?
Tony

[BipDBo]

It was my understanding that the thermoplastic panels were also predicted to be lighter than fiberglass. Most of these have been a little bit more than 818 kg as a result. But fiberglass isn't bad. It's still great on the Corvette. There are a few reasons to be thankful that they stuck to fiberglass:
* This allowed panels to be alternatively made with carbon fiber, including one build that won an award at the 818's first SEMA. Hopefully, FFR will offer more carbon panels in the future.
* Fiberglass can be easily modified and repaired by the builder. Plastic, not so much. If I want to modify the hood vents, as I've discussed, I can easily do that with fiberglass.
* Thermoplastic molds are very expensive, so they require a longer term commitment from FFR. That makes for less flexibility to refresh the design, and makes it more difficult and expensive to make variants like the C. If it was plastic, we might not be even talking about the C now.
* Thermoplastic, when it was used on Hunter sailboats, was very high quality for around 7 years. It was lighter, more flexible and stronger for a time. When it got older, though, it started forming long cracks, and the boats essentially became garbage. Some people said it was due to thermal expansion through cold winters, but it happened with Florida boats as well. Cars won't sink, but you still don't want big cracks in your panels.
* Working with boats all my life, I can tell you that unpainted gelcoat can look real nice for a very long time a little bit of polishing and wax. I'd say it's a lot more durable than paint. If you like red or white, you probably don't need any paint.

[greaser]

I am just stoked that I will be able to drive it more than 3 or 4 months up here in northern Minnesota. I cant wait to see the finished product of what my next car is going to look like.

[longislandwrx]

I wish thermoplastic was still on the short list.

[nkw8181]

Well dang it! I just decided that would will ditch all the power window and hvac wiring. Can anyone say if I will need any of this? I know it is out there but do we know if the electric Windows use the donor wiring (I sure hope not). If your making the hard top any chance of getting a vintage air kit specific for the 818?

[AZPete]

Nolan, I kept the donor HVAC wiring but when I tried to fit the WRX HVAC unit it was way too big to fit anywhere. I then bought the mini unit from Vintage Air which fits nicely in the 818 dash and also installed a condenser, lines, heater valve, etc. from Vintage. I have since taken out most of the donor HVAC wiring and will use Vintage wiring to the donor compressor. It's all plumbed but I haven't had the system charged yet because I've got other stuff to do first, including dash vents. When the A/C is working I'll post info and pics.

I don't know about the coupe windows but I plan to add wires to the doors then wait for the FFR release this summer.

[N2MINI]

While some are hoping for the top to be easily removable I'm just hoping it doesn't look like it is easily removable.. Plus like someone else mentioned I would liked to have seen a more vertical rear glass to be able to keep the double hump sections some how.. maybe slide further back or something..but might would have done away with the roof scoop, which I like..

[spaceywilly]

My hair is officially on fire! Been on the fence about getting and 818 but this is definitely pushing the right buttons for me. Can't wait to see the finished product.

[androosh]

That's the same for me. I've been lurking for forever and finally created an account solely because of this thread. Can't wait to see what they show at the open house since I already have a donor vehicle I can use!

[spaceywilly]

wanted to get an idea of what the coupe will look like so I did some quick and dirty photoshopping
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=39315&d=1425442971
39315

[N2MINI]

Not knocking your sharpie photo shops skills but it loses some of it's sexiness without the humps on the back.. Maybe once I can see it for real along with the roof scoop it will get better.. Can't believe they haven't posted a pic with the real roof atleast laying on a car for a visual..

[Flamshackle]

Not knocking your sharpie photo shops skills but it loses some of it's sexiness without the humps on the back.. Maybe once I can see it for real along with the roof scoop it will get better.. Can't believe they haven't posted a pic with the real roof atleast laying on a car for a visual..

I have seen the hardtop on the actual car and it looks absolutely stunning.

If you like the humps then buy the open topped car that will still be for sale.

Remember there are three options

818 S
818 R
818 C

[07FIREBLADE]

Looks that good ehh, cant wait for the unveil and maybe a chance to get one of the first ones available.

[Kalstar]

Looks that good ehh, cant wait for the unveil and maybe a chance to get one of the first ones available.

It really does look that good. Outstanding actually.

[Movieman]

Haven't been here in a while, life interfering but that is Just plain slick! ;)

[07FIREBLADE]

I wish I lived closer or could afford a trip to the factory. Or if they would bring it out to HB that would make my day. Would you say that it finishes the car Making it look more oem with the integration of the older body?

[Kalstar]

I wish I lived closer or could afford a trip to the factory. Or if they would bring it out to HB that would make my day. Would you say that it finishes the car Making it look more oem with the integration of the older body?

I would say a resounding yes. Too early for HB but when you see the changes you will be blown away.

[Movieman]

I wish I lived closer or could afford a trip to the factory. Or if they would bring it out to HB that would make my day. Would you say that it finishes the car Making it look more oem with the integration of the older body?
I went and took a tour a few years back. Impressive, well set up, professional and friendly people are the words that come to mind.

[07FIREBLADE]

Nice. Thanks for confirming that this is exactly what I wanted to hear. Oh how I can't wait now for this to come out already.

[N2MINI]

I have seen the hardtop on the actual car and it looks absolutely stunning.

If you like the humps then buy the open topped car that will still be for sale.

Remember there are three options

818 S
818 R
818 C

I understand that, but I'd need it to be more of a DD to justify the cost currently. If I was buying a "fun dream car" it'd be the Roadster Mk3-4.... Looks like the 818 in Hardtop form with real windows is going to cost more than a base Roadster

[nkw8181]

So does it come in white and is there a list yet?

[Kalstar]

I understand that, but I'd need it to be more of a DD to justify the cost currently. If I was buying a "fun dream car" it'd be the Roadster Mk3-4.... Looks like the 818 in Hardtop form with real windows is going to cost more than a base Roadster

No it will be less. I know directly from the source.

Btw all the gellcoats are now red. Top will also be red. (I will be painting mine Charcoal)

[flynntuna]

I take this means that the donor window mechanism, motors,switches,ect. except for the glass will be used for this upgrade? And that FFR will only be supplying the hardtop, glass, door steel, headliner and the means to attach to the car?

[billjr212]

i wouldn't expect a headliner from FFR, but have no direct knowledge. As of a couple years ago, no headliner was included on the Hot Rod hard top (I presume some people would just prefer to smooth out the inside and paint it or leave as is depending on the finish quality of the inside for the 818 hard top).

[FFR-ADV]

Notice Dave's comments from the second post on this thread mentions a liner twice:



Side rear quarter window glass incorporates an air intake slot.
The roof scoop is functional. Fresh air intake for the engine bay with an integral inner linear that ducts air through the cockpit and into the engine bay. This is being designed as a source for cold air to the intercooler.
The 818C project involves about six months of shaping and mold making.
The 818C hard top is designed to retro-fit to all current 818S models. It will not fit the 818R. The design includes the following features:
Power side windows
Rear quarter glass and side-vented engine bay
Hinged rear glass hatch
Inner bulkhead with rear window
Inner hard top linear with air intake duct to engine bay
Comes with front windshield glass

Pricing is not available at this time. Production start date is estimated June 2015.

This is going to be great.... Thanks Dave!

[billjr212]

I assumed that meant a fiberglass or aluminum liner to route the air, as opposed to a fabric or vinyl headliner. I'm never against being pleasantly surprised though.

[Kalstar]

Don't know about a Headliner but I do know the window parts are not from the donor.

[FFR-ADV]

I also wonder what the difference is between a "linear" and a liner. Maybe it is just a duct?

It will be disappointing if the hardtop is not made available in white as that would kill the paint free feature and would also be a substantial cost upper for early 818 buyers...

[GUNS]

I also wonder what the difference is between a "linear" and a liner. Maybe it is just a duct?

It will be disappointing if the hardtop is not made available in white as that would kill the paint free feature and would also be a substantial cost upper for early 818 buyers...

I'm with you, but I think that FFR has abandoned the "paint free" goal for now.

[N2MINI]

No it will be less. I know directly from the source.

Btw all the gellcoats are now red. Top will also be red. (I will be painting mine Charcoal)

One of the builders from this forum just built an 818 and did a few upgrades on it but says he has roughly $26,000-$28,000 in it and not charging anything for his 350 hours of labor.. Which he thinks he might could get knocked down to 250 at best which would be another $15,000 to a customer, then add the cost of the hardtop and windows, maybe $3500 and your at =$42,500- $44,500 sure it can be done much cheaper if I did all the work, but I don't have time or space to be sure to make it happen in a timely fashion even if I had the cash on hand.. He thinks he could build me an Mk4 for cheaper as he wouldn't have to deal with the donor car and all the labor that goes into that part of the 818...( tear down, cleaning, painting, maybe rebuilding, etc ) but the Roadster isn't really a DD as far as windows go even with a soft top or a hard top, which is why I had high hopes for the 818 to start with..

[michael everson]

N2Mini. If you build it yourself, the price goes down considerably. My build had more then a few upgrades. I don't want to deter anyone from building one of these cars based on price. You could easily build the 818S for about $15,000.00 You would need to stick to the donor for everything and not go crazy on the options. It all depends on what you want for the final product. Same with the Roadster. I still think the Roadster will be less build hours then an 818, but maybe that will change as I build more of them.
Mike

[blbrchnk]

N2Mini. If you build it yourself, the price goes down considerably. My build had more then a few upgrades. I don't want to deter anyone from building one of these cars based on price. You could easily build the 818S for about $15,000.00 You would need to stick to the donor for everything and not go crazy on the options. It all depends on what you want for the final product. Same with the Roadster. I still think the Roadster will be less build hours then an 818, but maybe that will change as I build more of them.
Mike

$15k is a hard goal to hit. And to do so would mean the donor parts would have to be left as is with no upgrades. Personally, if I am investing all those hours and building a car from scratch, I want it to be as nice as it can possibly be within my means. That certainly isn't possible for $15k, or $20k or $25k I am quickly realizing. Doing everything myself the engine upgrades alone are going to run me $6-7k and thats not counting an upgraded clutch, lsd, upgraded seats, wheels, tires (donor tires are shot) fluids, pads, plugs, spray liner, paint, extra nuts, bolts and rivets, etc. Its all the little things that get looked over that really start to add up. I am trying to account for as many of them as I can from the beginning in my spreadsheet but I know I will miss many.

[Dave Smith]

In January, we showed you our prototype shape for the new 818C removable hard top. Since then, production molds have been built and the tech/R&D team has been building an all-new car that will serve as the first 818C model. Here are some photos of the first part out of the mold. We have decided to make some minor changes to the part, but these pictures give a good idea of what the final shape will be. The production car will be unveiled at our summer Open House on June 13th here in Wareham, MA.

Pricing is still not finalized, but will be announced at our Open House when we introduce the car.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3830.jpg
The 818C shape was made by Jim in R&D and John in Shaping

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DSC_5209.jpg
The hard top is a removable part that replace the rear deck panel and includes a glass hatch and glass quarter windows. The glass hatch in the photo above is the plug that was made for the glass molds. DOT compliant glass is being made by our supplier.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DSC_5214.jpg
The 818C follows the 818R and the 818S models. One of the biggest advantages of the 818 is that, with a body that is made of smaller panels, we are able to change body styles with a minimum of effort. This makes the 818 a very flexible platform, and a fun car to build because it can be upgraded and changed easily.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DSC_5231.jpg
Rear spoiler options are not finalized yet.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DSC_5238.jpg
Almost everyone who has visited the company remarks how the 818 is much more dramatic and aggressive in real live versus in photographs. The 818C has a very aggressive stance.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DSC_5241.jpg
The 818C hard top is designed to retro-fit to all current 818S models. It will not fit the 818R.

The 818C design includes the following features:
Power side windows
Rear quarter glass and side-vented engine bay
Hinged rear glass hatch
Inner bulkhead with rear window
Inner hard top linear with air intake duct to engine bay
Comes with front windshield glass

[xxguitarist]

$15k is a hard goal to hit. And to do so would mean the donor parts would have to be left as is with no upgrades. Personally, if I am investing all those hours and building a car from scratch, I want it to be as nice as it can possibly be within my means. That certainly isn't possible for $15k, or $20k or $25k I am quickly realizing. Doing everything myself the engine upgrades alone are going to run me $6-7k and thats not counting an upgraded clutch, lsd, upgraded seats, wheels, tires (donor tires are shot) fluids, pads, plugs, spray liner, paint, extra nuts, bolts and rivets, etc. Its all the little things that get looked over that really start to add up. I am trying to account for as many of them as I can from the beginning in my spreadsheet but I know I will miss many.

This isn't the right thread for the discussion, but I'll put in my 2c.

The 818S can definitely be built for 15k.
We aren't personally, but we're much lower than one would expect for full custom twin scroll (etc)

At 15k, you need to sell everything you don't need from the donor. At ~6k donor cost, you should be able to break even. Better if it has some upgrades that you don't use. It needs a strong engine & trans though.
You'll also need to pick it up yourself.
You're back to the $10k kit as total cost now.

Budget 500 for assorted replacement rubber bits & bolts
Use stock engine, don't add LSD to the trans, don't upgrade header/up-pipe, use stock turbo. Basic exhaust.
Spend the remaining 4.5k on:
Seats ~1k/pr, used.
Gauges ~$300 (basics)
STi Oil pan & KillerB pickup (relatively necessary..) $300
AWIC $500
Wheels & tires will use a good chunk of the remaining, leaving a little wiggle room.
Vinyl wrap for a few hundred in materials if you aren't covering the whole car.

There's no reason this can't be done, it's just very difficult for those of us building our own car to see a spot we could make a bit better, and not do it. Slippery slope.


Edit,
Dave, that looks great! Look forward to more info to come.

[billjr212]

Thanks for the update Dave! Can't wait to see the finished product! Excited to see that the motor should be visible both from outside and from inside the car through the glass - adds to the mini-exotic car style.

[shinn497]

Ooooooh purdy. I'm curious on the weight penality though. So I'd still get the roadster. But damn that does look good!

I'm noticing that the front is conspicuously missing. I vonder vat dat means.

[David Hodgkins]

In January, we showed you our prototype shape for the new 818C removable hard top. Since then, production molds have been built and the tech/R&D team has been building an all-new car that will serve as the first 818C model. Here are some photos of the first part out of the mold. We have decided to make some minor changes to the part, but these pictures give a good idea of what the final shape will be. The production car will be unveiled at our summer Open House on June 13th here in Wareham, MA.

Pricing is still not finalized, but will be announced at our Open House when we introduce the car.

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC_3830.jpg
The 818C shape was made by Jim in R&D and John in Shaping

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DSC_5209.jpg
The hard top is a removable part that replace the rear deck panel and includes a glass hatch and glass quarter windows. The glass hatch in the photo above is the plug that was made for the glass molds. DOT compliant glass is being made by our supplier.

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DSC_5214.jpg
The 818C follows the 818R and the 818S models. One of the biggest advantages of the 818 is that, with a body that is made of smaller panels, we are able to change body styles with a minimum of effort. This makes the 818 a very flexible platform, and a fun car to build because it can be upgraded and changed easily.

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DSC_5231.jpg
Rear spoiler options are not finalized yet.

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DSC_5233.jpg

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DSC_5238.jpg
Almost everyone who has visited the company remarks how the 818 is much more dramatic and aggressive in real live versus in photographs. The 818C has a very aggressive stance.

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DSC_5241.jpg
The 818C hard top is designed to retro-fit to all current 818S models. It will not fit the 818R.

The 818C design includes the following features:
Power side windows
Rear quarter glass and side-vented engine bay
Hinged rear glass hatch
Inner bulkhead with rear window
Inner hard top linear with air intake duct to engine bay
Comes with front windshield glass

This needs to be at the top of this page...

Hey Dave, do you need a Wookie to test fit your changes??

[TouchStone]

There's no reason this can't be done, it's just very difficult for those of us building our own car to see a spot we could make a bit better, and not do it. Slippery slope.

Exactly, It's so hard to resist.

[Kurk818]

Gotta say, pretty nice.

[JAubin]

Awesome! Thanks for the update Dave! While I'm sure the rear quarter glass will look good, I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees an opportunity for some vents adding more air into the engine bay too, tho with an additional roof scoop maybe that's won't be necessary? Great work, can't wait for the full reveal.

[xxguitarist]

Hey Dave, do you need a Wookie to test fit your changes??

On that point, I have to slouch to pass a "broomstick" test with the S rollbar in race seats on sliders that have been modified to get me as low as possible without hitting seat on frame.. How's the headroom on the coupe?

[bigAl]

Looks solid, professional, realistic - all good.
Supercarlike... no, Hair-on-fire... no.
Still a very strong step forward for FFR.

[Kalstar]

There will be vents in the window area too. Not too large but effective.

[TouchStone]

Wow that looks fantastic. Seeing it in red on the chassis makes it look amazing.

I'd like to see how the top intake feeds to the intercooler, cant wait for more pictures!

[metalmaker12]

I think it's pretty hair on fire. It looks great and will make a roof scoop-large intercooler very possable and very effective.I have a feeling the front facia got an update also.

[nkw8181]

Ooooo Ooooo puuuuuurrrrrrdy!

[Hindsight]

Oh a new front fascia..... that gets me more excited than a hard top. I'd definitely be in for a new front end if the price is reasonable and I like the style. Based on previous comments from FFR/Dave, I would assume all the upcoming revisions will be compatible with all the older kits.

[fryguy]

I think it's pretty hair on fire. It looks great and will make a roof scoop-large intercooler very possable and very effective.I have a feeling the front facia got an update also.

Dave confirmed that there will be something new with the front and will be revealed in June. I never really cared for the front and felt it fell short some of the cool design submissions. If there is a new front, hopefully it will be interchangeable for the delivered kits.

http://jefferyfry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Screen-Shot-2015-03-19-at-2.17.32-PM.png (http://jefferyfry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Screen-Shot-2015-03-19-at-2.17.32-PM.png)

[AZPete]

Very cool, Dave et al. Please start a pre-order list with my name towards the top!

[jayguy]

The hard top is looking great! Can't wait to see it all put together.

So I guess it won't be ready for HB? Too bad.

[Aero STI]

The hard top looks great at this point. I'm excited to see the final product.

However, I agree with others, an updated front end is even more exciting!

[metros]

Love the new hardtop design! Really makes a dramatic difference in the overall appearance of the car.

Can't put my finger on it, but the slope of the hatch almost reminds me of 240Z - in a very good way.

Great idea to make these parts interchangeable. Keep up the great work FFR!

[milkman dan]

I agree. Keep up the great work. It looks so excellent. I cannot wait for the full reveal!

[flynntuna]

I love the look. I wonder how much steel if any is in the structure, and how one could modify it to put in a couple of removable panels :cool:

[Kalstar]

Remember there is a roof scoop that will feed air to the intercooler, it also looks way cool! BTW in person it looks a little Mustang and a little C7 and a little Cayman all mixed in together. Looks fantastic in person..... These pics do no justice. No one will know what it is. Which is also awesome.

[flynntuna]

I'm assuming... There's steel running from were the windshield connects to the frame to somewere behind the quarter window connecting to the frame there. I'm also thinking the areas on the driver and passenger sides between the roof scoop and the side window frames could be modified to form removable panels, two of them one over each seat. Just thinking out loud. Without seeing it in person it's almost impossible to know for sure. It may be a solution for those who wanted a targa top. :)

[riptide motorsport]

Looks very very nice!

[C.Plavan]

Nothing is keeping me from cutting out the 818R cage, then adding a real cage to have the hardtop fit. However, I don't know if I could fit through the window with a helmet on. :)

[Dave Smith]

The funny thing about design goals is that they are prerequisite and foundational to any new product and at the same time, goals by nature are what you strive for and don't always hit 100%. I always infuse in them a precept I learned at the University of Wisconsin, "your reach should exceed your grasp". The 818 is testament to that and while we nailed almost every original design goal and did so in the timeframe we set out to accomplish, by doing so in a public manner we also shared our failure (attempt to make no-paint plastic thermo-formed panels). It's funny because the very ones who clamor for all the information are the same ones who never let you forget a failure, that if never communicated, would never have been known. Such are the vagaries of doing business the way I've chosen to do. But I protest too much. Truth is I love the process we've used and its been very successful and fun (mostly).

With all that being said, one of our earliest goals was to make the platform flexible to accommodate multiple design changes, upgrades, and applications (Street, race, daily driver, convertible, coupe, model evolution, etc). At the risk of exposing my good comrades with years of "you said", I will say. The hardtop is continuing the goal of interchangeability on the 818. Simply put, we are trying in earnest to make sure that every change we introduce is retrofittable. It makes sense in a number of ways. First it rewards early adopters by making sure that while they enjoyed the bonus of having the cars first, they also enjoy subsequent revisions and never end up being "One of those guys that got the early cars that were later improved". This builds (I hope) real brand loyalty. Second it makes good business sense as there are guys who have 818S models who will want to add a removable hardtop maybe seasonally or maybe change it over completely. The downside is that is is really difficult to do. Imagine the design team's job when I added this "little" requirement of interchangeability! So far we've done a good job with the 881S, the 818R, carbon parts, wiper, running gear mods (6-speed trans adapter, etc), soft top, shifter, new wheels, yes we can still make white gel coat, etc… But not everything is possible. For example the hardtop works with the 818S but not the 818R due to the height of the roll bar. We are going to build a road race version of the 818C and of course we'll have a cage, but as of now, that is not being worked on.

Soo, IF/WHEN we make further body changes than those shown, then yes one of the design goals is to make them interchangeable with the first gen parts. I swear, I can never keep a secret! I would hate working for a guy like me!

[bbjones121]

Awesome! Thank you for the updates. Cant wait to see it all finished. Any available hvac details?

[Hindsight]

We all appreciate the backwards compatibility. It will result in more business as the earlier kit buyers upgrade to the latest parts and it will probably make prospective buyers more likely to pull the trigger as opposed to waiting endlessly for whatever they consider to be the "perfect" setup.

Any hopes of a teaser front fascia pic or are we going to have to wait until June? :D

[Canadian818]

Looks great Dave, and I for one appreciate the openness you show with your goals. It's important being in the DIY business to show builders that even the mighty FFR sometimes falls short of an ambitious goal. So thank you for enduring the haters. And it's nice to see it'll be available in white.

[nkw8181]

A short coming here and there only shows you are pushing the limit. Just keep pushing, I'm loving the results even if my build budget keeps growing :)

[David Hodgkins]

Looks like once again I'll be at the open house in June! Man, the coupe's lines are so nice! It's a beautiful sweep off the windshield all the way to the tail. It completely changes the look of the car.

LOVE it!

:)

[Mechie3]

This view reminds me of a rounded off 550 Marenello.

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DSC_5209.jpg

[longislandwrx]

I think it's pretty hair on fire. It looks great and will make a roof scoop-large intercooler very possable and very effective.I have a feeling the front facia got an update also.

Some mr2 style scoops would work too. I think it very much has potential.



Nothing is keeping me from cutting out the 818R cage, then adding a real cage to have the hardtop fit. However, I don't know if I could fit through the window with a helmet on. :)


Agreed, a new cage shouldn't be too hard to rework, especially if you could find a off the shelf kit that will fit or FFR comes up with a solution, (which would be awesome).. An R conversion kit mmmm

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cee-3323?seid=srese1&gclid=CKSsvoOit8QCFUnl7AodR2MA6A

...Signs up for yoga class.

[Dave Smith]

I think it is important to leave Jim to his design work and show what we will show at Open House in a few months... I will tell you that right now there is more to the 818 project than meets the eye and it makes sense to introduce the road ahead for the design at the same time as the 818C launch. I am impressed with the quality thinking of the team and particularly the excellent work on the engineering front by Jesper and on the design front by Jim and his guys. As far as tough critics, I enjoy the challenge immensely and appreciate all feedback.

[Hindsight]

All these subtle hints..... I'm starting to feel like a market analyst trying to read between the lines of a Federal Reserve speech ;)

I'm actually going to try to check out the open house this year. Never been to the factory so would be a good opportunity. Either way, very excited to see the updates. With where I am in my build, they are coming at a great time.

[BipDBo]

It looks fantastic. I look forward to seeing the new nose.

I'd like to know what the headroom is like inside. It looks roomy enough, It looks like it offers more room than under the rag of a Miata, possibly even enough for a tall guy like myself to wear a helmet.

You know what would be cool?
One commenter said that he really liked the retrofittable design because he can turn his 818 into a coupe for winter months and back to a roadster for the summer. It looks like, however, removing and reinstalling this hardtop is a bit more involved than with the 33, not likely something I'd be inclined to do every couple of months. If there was a seem along the roof just above the roll bar the roof skin above the cockpit could be removed and put off to the side. Whatever tubing between the A and B-pillar would remain. That way, on a nice sunny day, you can pop off the top and drive it around like a targa.

I don't think that missing the goal of thermoplastic should be considered a failure. The way I see it, more research showed the disadvantages to outweigh the advantages. Thermoplastic might be slightly lighter, but as I posted earlier on this thread, there are a lot of reasons why we should be glad that FFR stuck with glass. Besides, the biggest advantage stated to thermoplastic was to eliminate the cost of a paintjob for your build. Why can't FFR simply offer gelcoat in more options than white and red? Boat builders do it all the time, and gelcoat is very long lasting. That would seem like a much easier way to obtain that goal.

[ehansen007]

Great job guys. As always.

[FFR-ADV]

Dave,

Thank you for sharing this with us. You, Jim and the entire development team have so much to be proud of. As an early 818S builder I personally appreciate your commitment to back fit and offer even the super white gel coat (and those met my paint free goals) as well as the very nice red gel coat available to new builds. As far as I am concerned you met your goals and produced a truly great car without letting costs get out of control (and that is no minor effort). Thanks so much!

The entire staff at FFR have been very helpful to me throughout my build. A special thanks to Jim Schenck who has gone out of his way to help!

My computer wallpaper is getting an immediate upgrade! Can't wait to see the reveal at the open house.

[R.Spec]

I need tissues. :rolleyes: Hehe. Stop making this car cooler. I need to finish mine and stop spending money on it so I can buy this when it comes out!

[Cbus]

I haven't been on here for awhile. Just been busy. The 818 was in my future plans to build
For sure. I was a little bummed that it was a roadster only. But it still intrigued me anyways.
Now that there is a coupe. That will for sure be my build. I'm still a little bit out on doing my build.
But will probably start buying parts or getting a donor sometime this year. I would prefer a full cage.
But understand the evolution of the 818 and trying to make it so people that are 818 builders already
Can enjoy the updates. I respect that! After I build mine, there maybe updates later on that I may want.
Really like this coupe guys! Dam good job!

[GUNS]

Looks great! I echo the appreciation for making this adaptable to early 818s. I look forward to the future development of the 818, but my wallet doesn't...

[Oppenheimer]

You know how sometimes you see a convertible version of a hot car, and you can tell it was designed as a coupe, and they struggled with the roofless version, and it just doesn't look as good. The 818c looks so good, it looks like it was the initial design. Top definitely doesn't look like an add on. Looks like it was born that way.

It really takes it up a notch. Looks much less kit, lot more car.

[AZPete]

"Looks like it was born that way." Good point, and I agree.

Is it June yet?

[TouchStone]

Cant stop looking at it.

[flynntuna]

T-minus 83 days and counting. :cool:

[FFinisher]

I was at FFR today. I can tell you this looks as good in person as it does in Pictures.

Great Job By Jim and The FFR team!

[Connedale]

Wow! Great job Dave and Team!

[nkw8181]

So where is the pre- pre-order list?

[25mike87]

This is what brought me here, I have watched Factory Five Racing since 2005 and always wanted to build one of the kits but haven't had the financial stability. Now the stars have aligned, I love the looks of the 818S but felt that it was missing something, but that top completes the car and I have an 02 WRX in the driveway that has been my daily for 3 years now its time to retire it and buy a 818C.

[erachner]

You know how sometimes you see a convertible version of a hot car, and you can tell it was designed as a coupe, and they struggled with the roofless version, and it just doesn't look as good. The 818c looks so good, it looks like it was the initial design. Top definitely doesn't look like an add on. Looks like it was born that way.

It really takes it up a notch. Looks much less kit, lot more car.

...and that's the fact that the roadster looked so good. As the legendary designer Ian Callum put it (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/04/jaguar-confirms-f-type-coupe-awd-coming-within-two-years/),

"If you get a convertible right, it's easy to do a coupe."

[BipDBo]

...and that's the fact that the roadster looked so good. As the legendary designer Ian Callum put it (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/04/jaguar-confirms-f-type-coupe-awd-coming-within-two-years/),

"If you get a convertible right, it's easy to do a coupe."

There's probably something to that. Take a look at another car that started as a roadster, and then they made a coupe. The BMW Z4.
39895

These coupes are very rare. They didn't sell many. The pictures does not do it justice. In person, it's stunning. Dave said the same about the 818C. The pics look promising, but in person, I bet it will be a very beautiful car.