RustlesRoadster

[russelljones48]

So, my Mark IV will arrive in the next few days and I thought I should start this thread even though my garage isn’t quite ready.
I’ve been reading through various threads and posts here and this site has already been a great help. However, I have some questions so I’m hoping to get some guidance.
The car will have the Coyote (already in the garage), the TKO 600 (not yet purchased) and IRS. It’s planned for mostly cruising with some just-for-fun track time and autocross. Although I like the “bling” the plan is for it to be fairly minimalist with unassisted steering and un-boosted brakes. I hope to apply the KISS approach. I took advantage of the FFR sale last winter and bought the base kit with most of the upgrades, so you have and idea of what components I have.
I wanted to mention that I’m in the Charlotte area (Mooresville) and have discovered that Mike N is a neighbor!! He will probably get tired of me but has already given of his time and provided valuable guidance.
I haven’t done anything much but basic auto maintenance for a long time and I was pretty much a Chevy guy back when I got most of my shadetree experience so I’d like to start by offering an apology for asking so many questions and for needing so much help. I will probably be much more of a “taker” than a “giver” on this forum…
SO – my first of many questions: How much would a rebuilt MKVIII center section cost – with limited slip? And where might I find one? I have found local rear end assemblies for around $200 but would have to have them rebuilt (note: I did try rebuilding some a long time ago and wasn’t that successful so I think I need a pro).
I’m now off to clear/clean the garage…..

My kit is scheduled to arrive Sunday.. YEAH!! Still have some things to get straightened up in the garage and line up some bodies to help unload. Also need to complete my chassis dolly..

The Kit arrived yesterday - YEAH!!! Did my inventory and it looks like I've got some of the suspension stuff back ordered so it may be a few days before I make much progress. Will hunt down some IRS parts and build a body buck in the interim.

[bansheekev]

I bought my Lincoln MKVIII aluminum center section for $50 at the local pick n pull and re-used only the case and rear cover. Everything else was new - Eaton TrueTrac differential, Ford Racing gearset and pinion flange, bearings, seals, and professionaly assembled for less than $1000. The builder hot tanked it before assembly and I painted it. Came out great.

[Gordon Levy]

I have a couple of T-bird IRS systems in the shop in Kannapolis. I have a mark VIII here I can build up for you.

[russelljones48]

Gordon,

Wow - looks like you have a long commute :). Thanks for the response. I haven't ordered the TKO600 yet -waiting to find the pumpkin and gearset to match them up. I think I'm more interested in the MK VIII for the weight savings but am open to discussion. My early budget planning has gone by the wayside - spent WAY more than I planned on the engine and the TKO 600 isn't available used so I'm looking for a cost effective solution. My current thought is to use a "good" pumpkin with factory gearset and add limited slip and then choose the Tremec based on the gearing. I'm assuming the gearing will be around 300 so the Tremec would be the 4617. Thoughts??

[Bob Cowan]

By the time you buy a used pumpkin and add LSD, you might as well get a rebuilt unit from Gordon. Then you can pick the ratio that matches your goals.

Do a forum search on gear ratios. Lots of discussion about the "perfect" gear.

Don't be afraid to use a cast iron pumpkin. It is heavier. But it's also smaller, and easier to R&R. You really won't notice the weight difference.

[CHOTIS BILL]

I went the junk yard route thinking I would save some money doing it myself. After a lot of driving aroung and several skinned knuckles and trying to find all the correct parts I decided buying one setup the way you want is much cheaper.

Bill Lomenick

[soaringDude]

Congrats on your order. I am pretty much doing the same build (my kit should arrive in a few weeks). I just picked up an aluminum center section from a Mark8 and as soon as the gears/bearings show up will be doing the rebuild (haven't decided if I am going to do it myself or get someone to do it for me yet). You can save a few hundred bucks by doing it yourself and it might help you kill some time before your kit gets there :)

I am putting 3.55 gears in the back but haven't decided on TKO600 vs. TKO500.

[russelljones48]

Bob,

Thanks - good advice and I was thinking that the cast iron unit might not be a bad choice. I'm hoping Gordon will give me a quote for one. I'm not far from his Kannapolis location.

Spent my time today getting a good start on a frame dolly.....

[russelljones48]

SD,

My research shows there's almost no difference in price and the 600 is the better unit. TS at FF says the 600 is all they use now.

[2bking]

I purchased the aluminum pumpkin and parts new from Ford Racing in 2013 and paid about $1200 for all. I think I got one of the last 28 spline Torsen diffs available. The knuckles and hubs also came from Ford Racing with a cost of ~$700. There are excellent directions on the web for setting up the gears. It wasn't that difficult for me but it does require some very accurate measuring instruments.

[carlewms]

Russell,

No advice on the IRS...I took advantage of the "50% off sale" when I bought my base kit and added the IRS from FFR. this was definitely not the least expensive route.

I found installing the differential one of the biggest PIAs of the build because of the weight and way you have to move it to get installed.

Anyway, Welcome to the fun.

Carl

[russelljones48]

Gordon,

Can you give me a price for one of the Kannapolis units with LSD either added or stock?

Russell

[russelljones48]

I've almost got my frame dolly complete and still have not heard from Stewart on my exact delivery date. I've been doing some research (here and on Sergio's site) that I'm hoping some one or several of you can confirm. My research shows that I can use some of the 03/04 SVT Cobra terminator IRS components as follows:
1.) the pumpkin which has 31 spline output for the half shafts
2.) the half shafts will have to be shortened but they have 31 splines inboard and 28 splines outboard
3.) Thunderbird spindles and axle bearings (I will probably use the Whitby bearing set for the mounts)
4.) I won't use the brakes - doing some custom brakes on the Tbird mounts
It seems that the Cobra half shafts are beefier than the Tbird so there may be some advantages there and I'm having much better luck locating the Cobra components locally. Thoughts??

[russelljones48]

My kit arrived Sunday - YEAH!!! And I just found a MVIII rear end as well. Where did you source your gears etc? 3.55 sounds good and I'm looking at the Eaton Trutrac as well. A little pricey but I want to get the rear end right and then just leave it alone. I'm told that it's a PIA to work on it once the car is put together - can't get at it from the underside and must remove the trunk panels to get at it from top.

[russelljones48]

Other than price and color are there any significant differences with these oil pans?

[DaleG]

Both are being used. Both have had quality issues reported in the past. Get the one you favor (for whatever reason), check it out closely, run taps through the threaded openings to make sure all is well, fill it with water and let it sit overnight, and/or dye-check all welds. If all is well, you are good to go; if not, send it back. Just my opinion:rolleyes:. Another good option is the Champs pan, offered, I believe, by North Racecars - a forum vendor.

Cheers, Dale

[bansheekev]

My kit arrived Sunday - YEAH!!! And I just found a MVIII rear end as well. Where did you source your gears etc? 3.55 sounds good and I'm looking at the Eaton Trutrac as well. A little pricey but I want to get the rear end right and then just leave it alone. I'm told that it's a PIA to work on it once the car is put together - can't get at it from the underside and must remove the trunk panels to get at it from top.

Here are the parts I used - note that I used the pinion flange and rear cover from the Lincoln MKVIII the aluminum case came out of.

3.55 Ring & Pinion Set Ford Racing DT3600-355
8.8" Ring Gear And Pinion Install Set Ford Racing DT3630
Differential Pinion Flange Bolts Ford N800594-S100
Eaton Detroit Truetrac, 28 spline, 8.8" Ford Eaton 912A562
2 Stub Shaft Pilot Bearing/Seals, 8.8" Ford Ford Racing M-4413-A

[Ray W.]

Congrats on receiving your car! I look forward to reading your build thread.



My kit arrived Sunday - YEAH!!! And I just found a MVIII rear end as well. Where did you source your gears etc? 3.55 sounds good and I'm looking at the Eaton Trutrac as well. A little pricey but I want to get the rear end right and then just leave it alone. I'm told that it's a PIA to work on it once the car is put together - can't get at it from the underside and must remove the trunk panels to get at it from top.

[Mike N]

Other than price and color are there any significant differences with these oil pans?

I have a Canton pan. Not a great fit to the front or rear bearing caps but with some Great Stuff RTV it does seal.

But as we are here to help spend your money :rolleyes: take a look at Armandos oil pans. http://aroilpans.com/Roadrace.html

[russelljones48]

Thank you all!! Part numbers and oil pan advice have REALLY helped..

[russelljones48]

So, I'm off this morning to arrange for the pumpkin and IRS pieces I need - thanks again to this forum. And to Mike N. who is off soon to retrieve a broken family car. Safe driving and towing.

He showed me some great exhaust mods and I am wondering if any you know if anyone is making a "better" J pipe for the Coyote and the "spike" for the header? The results of the mods I read are very significant and I will eventually modify the exhaust system. I'm also interested in opinions from the group on port matching and smoothing out the head to header transition area on the FF Coyote headers?

[russelljones48]

For reference - Here's the J pipe mods mentioned by Mike in the other forum:

You can dramatically improve the performance of that area by doing what Rod (DV/DT) did here
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...spike-mod.html
and here http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...ur-j-pipe.html
Dyno test results here http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...ut-videos.html
J pipe porting and aerospike added 23HP for a few hours work.

[russelljones48]

SoaringDude,

How are you doing? Got your kit yet? My order was short some suspension components which I'm waiting for and I'm biding my time with research. I've found a local source here in NC for my pumpkin and potentially some more of the driveline. I'm off to see him this am. Thanks for helping me "keep the faith" and continue on my quest for a less costly solution.

You might want to look through the exhaust system mods I mentioned below. FFR is still shipping a J-pipe that really restricts the exhaust flow (robs 20-25 HP). I'm inquiring to see if anyone does the mods and/or sells a better J-pipe. This is a mod I could tackle myself but it would probably involve purchasing a new welder (mines an Miller stick unit) and getting access to a drill press. So, it may just be easier to buy....

[Avalanche325]

Thank you all!! Part numbers and oil pan advice have REALLY helped..

I am not sure how you decided to go. But I saw a Moroso pan that had a little ball of welding slag come off. It was small enough to go through the strainer and big enough to jam the oil pump.

Check any pan for that type of thing. If there are slag balls anywhere, use a chisel and get them out of there. I have a Champ pan, nice pan BTW, and found a flat washer floating around in the bottom.

On a performance engine, nothing is a bolt on item. Check and clean everything first. I also loc-tite screws for windage trays, etc.

[russelljones48]

Great advice - thanks. One of my old habits is to chase all threads, de-burr and generally clean up welds and castings and wash all parts in in hot soapy water... Sounds like that habit will help me avoid problems.

On the subject of pans, I'm leaning towards one of Armando's pans. I've heard good things about them. They are a bit pricey but he offers $100 rebate if I return my New Coyote pan to him.

I'm now trying to solve for my pedal box..... I'm hoping to use Tilton pedals but don't know what mods will be required to a Mustang box or even if that's possible.

[russelljones48]

SO, after wasting 1 4X8 sheet of plywood, I have my modified body buck pretty much complete. I have to admit the drawings in the appendix confused me a bit and in trying to move quickly with a modified buck my computations were off. For anyone who's modifying the buck I think it helps to know some of the specific dimensions rather than have to compute them as you make cuts (DUH).... For instance the front piece is 66" wide and the rear is 69" - I got those wrong the first time :-(.

[russelljones48]

I also can't find an IRS assembly video for the MK4. Is there one available?

[soaringDude]

I am doing great, though getting tired of waiting :) It should be here on Sat. morning. I have been doing research for months and months, time to put some work in!

Good luck with the parts hunt and I will post an update as soon as I get my kit and go through inventory. I hope the suspension parts and brakes get here quickly.

I haven't decided what I want to do with the headers yet, but I knew I didn't want to J-pipe so ordered without that part. I could go for the stainless headers solution which is a very nicely done header but that costs quite a bit and I am already over budget thanks to many upgrade and winter sale not being as good as some of the previous sales. But then again I waited a couple of decades to get this project started, what's another $1275? :p This line of thinking is going to cost me!!!

Keep us posted.


SoaringDude,

How are you doing? Got your kit yet? My order was short some suspension components which I'm waiting for and I'm biding my time with research. I've found a local source here in NC for my pumpkin and potentially some more of the driveline. I'm off to see him this am. Thanks for helping me "keep the faith" and continue on my quest for a less costly solution.

You might want to look through the exhaust system mods I mentioned below. FFR is still shipping a J-pipe that really restricts the exhaust flow (robs 20-25 HP). I'm inquiring to see if anyone does the mods and/or sells a better J-pipe. This is a mod I could tackle myself but it would probably involve purchasing a new welder (mines an Miller stick unit) and getting access to a drill press. So, it may just be easier to buy....

[soaringDude]

Perfect timing! I was cutting my body buck yesterday and realized I don't have enough info to finish cutting the back panel. Do you have a pointer to the modification you are talking about? Yesterday I decided to stop cutting the last parts and left it until I get the kit and measure it off of the body. But if I find a source for the infamous "stans mod".


SO, after wasting 1 4X8 sheet of plywood, I have my modified body buck pretty much complete. I have to admit the drawings in the appendix confused me a bit and in trying to move quickly with a modified buck my computations were off. For anyone who's modifying the buck I think it helps to know some of the specific dimensions rather than have to compute them as you make cuts (DUH).... For instance the front piece is 66" wide and the rear is 69" - I got those wrong the first time :-(.

[Jazzman]

You might want to check into the oil pan made by Gordon Levy at Levy Racing. He has one that is fitted correctly to not extend below the frame. That is not an item that I want hanging down as the lowest item under the car!!

Jazzman

[russelljones48]

Thanks - that's one I hadn't researched. And your absolutely right, I don't want my oil pan to be my belly pan :p

[bansheekev]

Not to tempt you to spend more money but here is another vote for stainless 4:1:4 headers. I had almost zero alignment problems with the sidepipes. Just had to reduce 3 of the 3/8" bolts on each side to 5/16" bolts to get them to rotate down ever so slightly at the tip of the pipe. No shims no wedges no nothing. All the Bay Area guys here were jealous as they have all had to mess with headers to get good alignment. Not cheap but they definitely saved me all sorts of headaches...

Kevin

[russelljones48]

The only pan I could find on the Levy site was a mustang pan... Do you have his part number and a price?

rj

[stevenburgess]

Russell,
I live over in concord. Any chance I could come over and take a look at your kit. I don't know if you got in on the foot box mod that king did. I got one if you want to check it out.

[stevenburgess]

I have not ordered my MK4 yet, but planning on it in the very near future

[russelljones48]

Steven,

Absolutely!! I'm hoping to get the body off today and you're welcome any time when I'm around (which is most of the time :-) ). I will send a private message with contact info. The footbox mod is under consideration although I'm no completely sure yet if it applies to my kit.

Russell

[stevenburgess]

Cool,

Look forward to it.

[russelljones48]

So, this weekend was busy. Detailed our boat on Saturday - going to sell it - and then finished the body buck and got the body off my M4 on Sunday. Found my IRS unit today - YEAH '98 MarkVIII Lincoln unit - should have it tomorrow. So, as soon as FF gets me some of the missing parts I can actually start assembling the chassis and suspension.

[Slider]

Not to tempt you to spend more money but here is another vote for stainless 4:1:4 headers. I had almost zero alignment problems with the sidepipes. Just had to reduce 3 of the 3/8" bolts on each side to 5/16" bolts to get them to rotate down ever so slightly at the tip of the pipe. No shims no wedges no nothing. All the Bay Area guys here were jealous as they have all had to mess with headers to get good alignment. Not cheap but they definitely saved me all sorts of headaches...

Kevin

Just adding my 2 cents on the headers... look closely at the Stainless Headers product. I had the first set (they modelled them on my car, in my garage) and have got to know those guys as they are set up in my hometown. First rate product, no fit issues and really good people. The craftsmanship is incredible....

[bansheekev]

I took one look at the pictures of the headers installed on Sliders car as soon as Stainless Headers delivered them and I placed an order the next day. Thank you to Slider for living close by to these guys to be all of our guinea pig!

Kevin


Just adding my 2 cents on the headers... look closely at the Stainless Headers product. I had the first set (they modelled them on my car, in my garage) and have got to know those guys as they are set up in my hometown. First rate product, no fit issues and really good people. The craftsmanship is incredible....

[russelljones48]

I looked too and they are definitely on my "list". Thanks for the recommendations :)

[russelljones48]

Can anyone tell me what "stock" bell housings would work with the Coyote/TKO600 combo in the Mark IV? Car will be pretty much street only so a used BH could save me quite a bit of $$$$

[stevenburgess]

Check kings mk4 build and message him about his headers. I still need to call him red same

[russelljones48]

I am also interested (without starting a religious war) in opinions on what clutch to use. I'm interested in a good "value" clutch - cost is important. Car will be mostly street driven and will be driven occasionally by my wife. I'm starting with cable actuation.

[bansheekev]

I am also interested (without starting a religious war) in opinions on what clutch to use. I'm interested in a good "value" clutch - cost is important. Car will be mostly street driven and will be driven occasionally by my wife. I'm starting with cable actuation.

The clutch topic for the Coyote crate motor goes like this - the flywheel that comes on the crate motor is a 9 bolt flywheel (clutch pressure plate uses 9 bolts). There are very few clutches available for this flywheel. There are two options I am aware of for keeping the Ford Racing provided flywheel:

1) OEM Mustang clutch which are ridiculously expensive.
2) Mike Forte has figured out a combination of a pressure plate and disk which is reasonably priced that work together. He sourced each of the two parts separately and sells it as a kit. I do not know the manufacturers or ratings but he can elaborate.

If you choose to change the flywheel to an aftermarket one (like something from Ford Racing) that is a 6 bolt flywheel you have a lot more options in the aftermarket. Problem is that the price goes up as a decent billet steel flywheel is over $300 before even considering a clutch. As a side note - I decided to swap flywheels to a billet steel one from Ford Racing and use a 11" dual friction Centerforce clutch also from Ford Racing. I have seen many people go the Mike Forte route successfully as well.

Kevin

[russelljones48]

Thanks.... guess I'm going to go count the bolt holes on the flywheel and then go count my money :-0

[bansheekev]

I consider myself pretty seasoned at building and modifying cars and did a pretty thorough budget plan before starting. When I was done, I added $10k. I came in $12k over the calculated number. So for my actual budget I came in only $2k over which isn't too bad.

Enjoy.


Thanks.... guess I'm going to go count the bolt holes on the flywheel and then go count my money :-0

[Mike N]

Russell

I have been very happy with my Spec clutch set up, not a Coyote but similar HP and higher torque. For a stock Coyote I would seriously consider this clutch. http://www.specclutches.com/652079/spec-stage1-clutch-mustang-sf501-9-521382. The spline count may need to be changed for the TKO but Spec will take care of that for you. If you might consider any power adders in the future go with the stage 2. That's what I have and even with an aluminum flywheel it's very easy to drive.

[russelljones48]

For some reason the stage 3 is cheaper than the stage 2? http://www.specclutches.com/650294/spec-stage3-clutch-mustang-sf503-9-528802

[russelljones48]

Mike (above) has found and uses a "SPEC" clutch. They offer several for the Coyote in a 9 bolt configuration and at reasonable prices.

[bansheekev]

Mike (below) has found and uses a "SPEC" clutch. They offer several for the Coyote in a 9 bolt configuration and at reasonable prices.

Oh what a difference a year makes! There wasn't anything available a year ago from the aftermarket for the 9 bolt flywheel. This certainly makes your life easier than mine. Things like this for the Coyote are becoming more mainstream as time goes by.

Kevin

[Mike N]

For some reason the stage 3 is cheaper than the stage 2? http://www.specclutches.com/650294/spec-stage3-clutch-mustang-sf503-9-528802

The stage 3 is a pretty aggressive clutch and not something that you would want the wife to have to deal with. Stage 1 or Stage 2 would be more than adequate with a stock Coyote. The stage 2+ starts to get a little more aggressive.

[russelljones48]

Thank you all for helping me to run down my options. Stage 2 Spec looks like the way I'll go. Given that the Coyote is generally underrated I will opt for the "better" clutch. Off to the junk yard this am to pick up the Mark VIII rear end and deliver it to the rebuilder... Guess I saved a little $$$ there :-)

[russelljones48]

So, yesterday was a good day!!
The upper control arms arrived! Still no steering rack, but I can get started now. Thank you all for your advice and the benefit of your experience. I think I've decided on the drive train. Spec now makes a 9 bolt clutch so, I'm going with that - I got a good recommendation, the price is reasonable, and I avoid having to buy a flywheel. Ford racing bellhousing, and TKO 600. Picked up the Mark VIII rear, got it disassembled and the rebuilder has it, so I have most of the driveline pieces too. Gotta few orders to place but I think I've made good choices. We'll see... :)

[WIS89]

RJ-

Sounds like you have a good plan, and the pieces are arriving. Now, it's off to the races. Good luck on the build, and I hope it goes well.

I look forward to reading more updates!

Regards,

Steve

[Al_C]

Slider / Kevin - do you have a website for the stainless headers? Not sure what vendor this is... I'd like to explore them further.

[Bren]

Slider / Kevin - do you have a website for the stainless headers? Not sure what vendor this is... I'd like to explore them further.

http://www.stainlessheaders.com/index.aspx

I got a set of stainless headers from them. They have excellent quality and customer service and reasonable pricing. Highly recommended.

[russelljones48]

So, FFR is shipping the missing pieces as they get them. I now have the front A arms, the tie rod ends and my Simpson belts.. still no steering rack, but I am able to start (when my garage gets warm enough :-) Thank you Factory Five.

[russelljones48]

So my brother still has my old (10yr old Actron) scan tool and I've decided that I need to upgrade and bequeath the old one to him. Cars in the house: 2011 Porsche C4, 2011 BMW M3 (the wife's ride), 2011 Ford F150 6.2 (Raptor) and a 2014 5.0 Coyote for the Factory Five Roadster I'm just starting to build. Kids that are local have a mix with a couple of >1996 BMW's 3 series, a Jeep Cherokee and a 2009 Mazda MX9?.

My budget is <$500 and I have a Ms Surface tablet and a laptop so I could go with a software based solution. I'm just getting back into "building" cars - having only done maintenance and minor upgrades on my cars for the last 25 years. My research is leaning towards the Innova 3160 @ $190 but I thought I'd ask for advice and experiences here.

Russell (Rustlesroadster)

[russelljones48]

So, I went with the Innova 3160 hand held for the time being. Good recommendations and I used it on my Porsche and did a baseline for fuel trims. Device works well. Can't say the same for the directions on how to get online with it and read/record your results. Took me a couple of trys and a couple of hours but ultimately, I got the right software on my laptop. $190 on Amazon.

With my upcoming Coyote build I'm still looking at "real software" for the laptop but it's pretty pricey with 4 vehicles and 3 makes... since we have 2 Fords I might start with just that package....

[russelljones48]

So, I happened to "stumble on" a 2003 gas tank and decided to try it. The basic tank looks exactly the same as the older unit but it has a smaller diameter filler neck with anti-siphon and rollover valve. Since the smaller tube might solve the interference problem that the earlier/fatter neck has it seemed like it was worth the effort and small outlay. Does anyone have any experience with this later version of the tank? Have I wasted some time and money?

[Jeff Kleiner]

The chassis is designed to accommodate any tank up to 2004. You'll need the appropriate cover and straps. When using the later tanks the rear of the right side strap attaches to the horizontal tab visible in the trunk.

Jeff

[russelljones48]

Jeff,

Thanks - that helps!! I got the cover and straps with the tank, so I should be set.

Russell

[russelljones48]

Now that I know I can use the tank - does anyone have a recommendation for an "in-the-tank" pump that will meet the needs of a stock Coyote? Note: I don't want to spend much more than $200. Thanks.

rj

[Mike N]

What is the fuel system for the Coyote crate motor? Does it have a fuel pressure regulator or is it returnless? For a FPR system a stock type replacement 255 lph in tank pump would be more than adequate. Never worked on a returnless PWM system so can't help there.

[2bking]

Now that I know I can use the tank - does anyone have a recommendation for an "in-the-tank" pump that will meet the needs of a stock Coyote? Note: I don't want to spend much more than $200. Thanks.

rj
The kit didn't come with a hanger bracket for the fuel pump so this fuel pump (http://www.amazon.com/Spectra-Premium-SP237H-Assembly-Sending/dp/B000C7W3H4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426127896&sr=8-1&keywords=sp237h) and bracket is mustang OEM. The Coyote requires a minimum of 155 lpm and I think the stock pump will deliver that. But not knowing for sure, I also bought this 255 lpm pump (http://www.amazon.com/BBK-1607--Tank-Electric-Mustang/dp/B000CINAO8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426128265&sr=8-1&keywords=1607+255+lph) to replace the one on the bracket. Both of these together are a little over your $200 budget.

[2bking]

What is the fuel system for the Coyote crate motor? Does it have a fuel pressure regulator or is it returnless? For a FPR system a stock type replacement 255 lph in tank pump would be more than adequate. Never worked on a returnless PWM system so can't help there.

The Ford Racing crate Coyote with the Ford Racing Controls Pack requires a fuel pressure regulator and a return line to the tank because the PCM doesn't monitor fuel pressure.

[Mike N]

Thanks King.

Does the Coyote come with the FPR or do you have to source one yourself? The reason I ask is because I have a truck project that I am seriously considering a Coyote motor for.

The stock FOX Mustang fuel pump was 88 lph which was OK for the 225 HP back then but not for the Coyote. I have used the 255 lph Walbro pump in mine and the stock hanger /sender since I built it back in 2000 with no issues.

[russelljones48]

Thanks guys,

This helps. I do have the entire stock unit - still in the tank, so a replacement pump is what I need. FF recommended an inline LS1 Chevy fuel filter/regulator - it's the one they used for their Coyote build. I can't find the part number in my morass of old emails but I've asked Tony and FFR to give me the number again. I'll post here when I get it.

Russell

[russelljones48]

Tony Z. was very quick. Here's one on ebay http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xfuel+filt er+910-12807.TRS5&_nkw=fuel+filter+910-12807&ghostText=&_sacat=0

GM part no. is: 910-12807 $35.00

Thanks Tony!!

[Mike N]

Is the Coyote a 58 psi pressure system? The old 5.0 motors were 40psi.

[russelljones48]

This is from an earlier post here and confirmed by a couple of Google searches...

I just talked to ford racing. They said that they have new instructions and they are going to start contacting everyone that bought a coyote. The fuel pressure should be set to 55 psi with no vacuum line connected to the regulator.

rj

[bansheekev]

This is from an earlier post here and confirmed by a couple of Google searches...

I just talked to ford racing. They said that they have new instructions and they are going to start contacting everyone that bought a coyote. The fuel pressure should be set to 55 psi with no vacuum line connected to the regulator.

rj

Is there any background / explanation of why the change?

Kevin

[russelljones48]

Kevin,

That "I talked to Ford Racing" was a quote from an earlier post here. I did not call FR but did the Google searches which confirmed the 55PSI setting. I'm a ways away from the fuel system so I will recheck when I do that install.

rj

[bansheekev]

Got it now. I already knew about the 55psi setting - there have been a couple revisions to the Coyote install / controls pack documentation from Ford Racing. I have the latest version and it calls for 55psi.

What I actually mis-interpreted was the vacuum line statement. I read it as meaning no vacuum line should be installed at all. Not setting it at 55psi with no vacuum. My bad. What I still am curious about though is that I thought the process for setting fuel pressure was to do it when the engine was not running at all - just key on to run the fuel pump. This statement seems to imply setting it with the vacuum line disconnected and the engine running / idling? Anyone have insight here?

Kevin


Kevin,

That "I talked to Ford Racing" was a quote from an earlier post here. I did not call FR but did the Google searches which confirmed the 55PSI setting. I'm a ways away from the fuel system so I will recheck when I do that install.

rj

[russelljones48]

Kevin,

I don't know the answer to this one. Re-reading this though I thought of a couple of resources who might know. Trevor Scrogins on FFCARS comes to mind first. He is on his second "Coyote" and is very knowledgeable on setting this motor up.

Russell

[russelljones48]

OK, before i throw in the towel and cut out the FFR rear mount......................

I am using a '98 lincoln irs with the ford racing cover/girdle - this cover has a cast "boss" on each side of the cover that houses the "pins" that brace the axle girdles - and it just doesn't want to go in. We've tried 4 times unsuccesfully with 4 different sets of hands and eyes. Does any one have some guidance?

I see 2 possibilities: 1. Cut out the rear mount and fabricate a removable mount or 2.) Cut out the cross brace that holds the forward mounts for the gas tank and install from the rear?

There are a couple of examples of the removable mount but I haven't heard anyone removing the gas tank brace - that would appear to be much easier to do.

rj

[2bking]

I have the same cover on mine and the aluminum pumpkin. I think the aluminum housings are larger than the steel ones. Either that or the IRS cages aren't all welded with the same clearances. I was pretty certain it wasn't going in and tried all the other orientations possible also. I ground a little off the places where it was rubbing while trying to install it and was able to force it through the hole. I used an overhead hoist to pull it up from the bottom which made it a little easier.

[russelljones48]

After weeks of house guests and frustration with the pumpkin mount, Monday and yesterday were productive days! Made my decision and started on the removable rear mount - A "Shout Out" to Mikeinatlanta on FFRcars for the pics and idea!!

I built a template out of luan for the removable rear mount and took it out to a local metal supplier yesterday and they cut me a back piece that fits the triangle formed by the X tubes and bent me a Z brace to fit over the 1X4 - all for $37.50!! All I need to do now is cut the mounts out and get the pieces welded up. However, my welding skills are now 30 years gone and they weren't that good to start with. So, I have to trailer it somewhere to get the welding done... or find someone with a portable welder. Hope to find that portable welder since I haven't yet purchased a trailer

I'd also like to know if FFR will sell me a set of the mounting brackets so I don't have to try and use the ones I cut out...

rj
__________________

[russelljones48]

Tire selection? The Toyo Proxes R888's I had hoped to run - 245-45-17 on the FFR 9" front rims have been discontinued. They still make a 235-45-17 and a 255-40-17. Can I run the wider tire? The tire is .4" wider (9.6 vs 10) and .7 shorter (25.7 vs 25). Anyone have any experience with these sizes on the M4? How do they look and how about the tires themselves? They are rated quite well. The 235-45-17 is much closer to the discontinued tire but a little narrower and shorter. Note: Car will have manual steering.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I actually prefer and recommend 255/40 for the front rather than 245/45. I've used that size on my car as well as on roadsters I have built for others. No personal experience with the 888; I've run mine on Sumis, 2 sets of Kumho XS and currently with Nitto NT-01. What are your plans for the rear?

Jeff

[russelljones48]

Jeff,

I was looking at 315's but I'm not sure they will fit either - having trouble finding a good selection of 17's for the rear. FFR is running 18" on their Coyote 305's in back. They are 12W X 26.5H and the 888's only come in the 315 or a 275. Would like the wider tire. I'm now checking for other brands.

Russell

[Jeff Kleiner]

315/35-17 fit the rear when mounted on the FFR 10.5" wheel...got 3 of 'em sitting in the garage right now.

Jeff

[russelljones48]

315/35-17 fit the rear when mounted on the FFR 10.5" wheel...got 3 of 'em sitting in the garage right now.

Jeff

Jeff,

Thank you - that solves the conundrum. Since these tires are likely to last a long time I didn't want to make a mistake.

Russell

[russelljones48]

Jeff,

BTW - your body and paint thread has convinced me to do my own paint job. It's been 35 years since I painted a car so I was afraid the technology had passed me by. However, I will do the car in white (single stage) so it can be final sanded and buffed.

rj

[russelljones48]

OH found this site with a pretty cool tire size comparison tool. There are probably others out there but this one worked for me. FYI not all tires of the same size are actually identical - manufacturers can differ so use this or any other tool as a guideline.

http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

[russelljones48]

Ordered tires yesterday - Jeff thanks for recommendations. AND...... After all this time and effort, with the rear brackets removed the pumpkin slipped in in 2 minutes.... The new rear mount is still not complete but should be shortly. FFR shipped me 2 new brackets that should arrive today. Then there's just a couple of cuts and welds and I should be done - YEAH!!! 41535 there's gotta be an easier way to post pics that what I had to go through....

[russelljones48]

OK, bracket is now welded up and fits like a glove. Thanks to Mike N. for both the advice to set it up with about 1/16" more side clearance and for welding up the bracket for me. Thanks also to mikeinatlanta for the basic design idea. I posted some drawings with dimensions on the FFCars site and here is a picture of the welded up bracket. I will drill the bolt holes, media blast it and take it to the powder coater today. Still need to weld in the rear brace for it but I'm happy that this chapter is almost over. I'm also (actually we're) making good progress on the mount for the AP Racing front brakes. Prototype should be ready when I return from my trip.41921

[russelljones48]

OK, so my next challenge is rear brakes and, as usual, my research leaves me a bit confused. I have the IRS knuckles from a '98 Lincoln. I assume they are the same as the IRS Cobra but need confirmation. My other question is this - what Ford brakes (rotors, calipers, and mounting brackets) will fit. Ford has discontinued most of these parts so I will need to go to the aftermarket for components. In looking for rebuilt components the only sure thing looks like the '98 Lincoln, but I'd prefer to get a larger rotor and "better" caliper on the car. Guidance would be greatly appreciated. It also seems that most of the components I'm looking for are the same for the live axle and the IRS but again I'm not sure.... I do understand that various performance Mustangs from 2001 - 2004 had slightly different rear brake set ups so it would be nice to know if those could be adapted to my car as well.

rj

[CraigS]

Pretty sure Forte has a Wilwood rear caliper setup for the IRS. He did 2 years ago for sure. BTW, you will love the 888s. One of the faster autocrossers in the DC area used them for his street tires and swapped to A6s at the event. BUT, on colder days at the beginning and end of the season he would run on the 888s. He was convinced they were faster in those conditions than the A6s.

[russelljones48]

Yes, I think he does but I was hoping to keep costs down by going to FORD pieces. Ans I can't wait to get it rolling on the 888's - thanks

[russelljones48]

After several weeks of travel, kids, grandkids and some minor surgery, I'm back at it. And, it seems, as usual, stuck. I'm trying to get the steering rack installed with the Breeze bushings, and get it centered but things aren't working according to the various directions and descriptions that are out there (Youtube FFR, mk4build.com, build manual, Breeze etc.). Recap: Mark IV chassis delivered 2/2015, manual steering rack delivered 4/2015 - so the rack appears to have the long inner tie rod ends.

Here's what I've concluded and I'd like advice and confirmation:

1.) Unless I grind out the mounting holes about 1/2" even with the Breeze bushings the rack won't center and if it does the bushing position will not be optimal from a height perspective - i.e the rack will not be in the lowest possible position.

2.) Keeping the rack in the lowest position will reduce bump steer the most and is therefore what I should try to achieve.

3.) The inner TR extensions are quite long and if I shorten them unequally to compensate for the rack being off-center then centering the rack in the chassis doesn't matter.

In summary, my plan is to keep the rack as low as possible putting the Breeze bushings with the bolt hole at 12 noon. Measure and cut the inner TR extensions to different lengths to compensate for the rack being about 1/2" off-center. So, the passenger side TR extension will end up about 1/2" shorter than the driver side. All this making sure that I have enough adjustment thread to get the car aligned properly.

I suspect there are some flies in this ointment, so please have at it :-)

[Mike N]

Russell..

When all assembled the length of the inner tie rods (inner joint to outer joint) should be the same on both sides other wise you will have different steering (bump steer) geometry on each side which will make for some potentially weird handling characteristics. The fact that the rack housing is not centered is not critical but might lead to having different number of turns to lock left and right. I'll stop by later and check out what you've got.

[russelljones48]

Thanks Mike!! So, there was a fly in the ointment. My theory was basically correct BUT. Mike stopped by, we pulled the boots off and I now understand how to set the rack up so the inner tie rod end pivot points are located at the same point on either side.... And at Mike's suggestion I also ordered a bump steer kit - couldn't find one on the Breeze site so it's a Steeda.

[Joee]

Make sure the bump steer kit you get doesn't require drilling your spindles. Forte sells a kit that fits right in.

[Mike N]

Joe. That's why I pointed Russell to STEEDA. I got mine from Mark at Breeze but he doesn't carry them on his website anymore. I wasn't aware that Fortes has them.

[CraigS]

W/ MkIV spindles the steering arm is a separate piece so drilling out the tapered hole is not the problem it is on the Ford spindles.

[russelljones48]

I've got a call into Breeze (and a text to Mike) but it looks like I will have to "slot" the mounting holes on the passenger side to the outside to get the rack so the pivot points for the inner tie rod ends "match" on either side. I'm somewhat concerned that the rack could then move around because all 4 mounting holes are now slotted. I could "pin" the rack in when it's all set but wondered 2 things: has anyone else had to slot the PS mounting holes and did they do anything (like pinning) to keep the rack in position? Breeze's instructions do mention that enlarging/slotting the mounting holes could be required.

rj

[Mike N]

How much 'off' is it? I wouldn't sweat the housing being perfectly centered.

[CraigS]

I agree w/ Mike. I have never needed to slot the frame hole in the 4-5 cars I have worked w/ the rack on. W/ the offset bushings you should be able to get at least 3/8 inch of lateral movement and only have maybe 3/32 inch of vertical movement.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I agree with Mike and Craig. I've not had issues with rack centering on any of them I've built. RE: differing lock to lock left to right---generally tire contact with the F panels are the limiting factor, not the mechanical travel of the rack. Why the bump steer kit? You're not far enough along to be able to measure to determine whether you even need it (if you're using FFR spindles you won't).

Jeff

[russelljones48]

So I kind of have 2 questions. The first one being will the rack potentially move around if I have "slots" on both the passenger and driver side. I think the answer is no as long as it's torqued to about 60-65 pounds. Now for the "centering" question.
Here's how I'm determining what I think is the optimal rack position. With the steering turned all of the way to the drivers side I am measuring the exact distance from the outside of tubular frame to the pivot point on the inner tie rod end. For argument's sake let's say that distance is 1.5". I then rotate the steering shaft to opposite stop on the passenger side (i.e. the maximum right travel and measure that same distance from the passenger side frame rail to the inner tie rod pivot point. Let's say that distance is 1". I then move the rack 1/2" to the passenger side (in the slots and with the Breeze bushings). Once that is complete both of the inner tie rod end pivot points will be 1.25" from the frame at stop on either side at maximum travel. This should insure that the steering geometry/bump steer is equal on either side when the car is going straight down the road. I did not try to center the steering and then make them equal because using the "find the center of the rack by rotating the steering wheel or shaft" did not seem exact enough for me.... Hope I'm explaining this so it can be understood.

The bump steer kit (at this point) is precautionary and if it isn't really needed then it's just to get the heim joints.....

[Jeff Kleiner]

...For argument's sake let's say that distance is 1.5". I then rotate the steering shaft to opposite stop on the passenger side (i.e. the maximum right travel and measure that same distance from the passenger side frame rail to the inner tie rod pivot point. Let's say that distance is 1". I then move the rack 1/2" to the passenger side (in the slots and with the Breeze bushings). Once that is complete both of the inner tie rod end pivot points will be 1.25" from the frame at stop on either side at maximum travel .....

No, if you do that it will just be opposite of what you have now with the offset to the other side. To get on true center you would move it 1/2 of the difference or .25".

Jeff

[russelljones48]

You are correct. Math used to be a competency for me :-). That's what I've done and each of the ITREnds extends the same amount beyond the frame at full stop on each side. Thanks

[russelljones48]

OK, next question. How much slop (notice I didn't use the term "play") should there be in the steering shaft bearing housing where it passes through the footbox? Mine has about 1/16" or 3/32" and literally rattles around. Seems excessive to me.

[Jeff Kleiner]

OK, next question. How much slop (notice I didn't use the term "play") should there be in the steering shaft bearing housing where it passes through the footbox? Mine has about 1/6" or 3/32" and literally rattles around. Seems excessive to me.

Did you happen to "sandwich" the footbox front wall with the two bearing retainers? If so that's your problem. They both need to be on the same side of the wall; i.e. wall>retainer>bearing>retainer.

Jeff

[russelljones48]

That was it... Thanks. When I read through the directions (DUH) they tell you to mount it to one side - I was just looking at the pics and the photos aren't terribly clear..

[russelljones48]

REMOVABLE PUMPKIN MOUNT. Completed and painted the frame mods so I'm finally ready to install my pumpkin. Since this mod presented a Catch22 for me - I either had to have someone with MIG/TIG come to the house or use my old stick welder - we welded the triangular plate to the frame with my old stick welder. It ain't pretty but with a little grinding and paint it's not really noticeable.

For those who want to create a removable pumpkin mount a few things I found. 1.) Order new FFR brackets - trying to save the ones I cut out was an exercise in futility - note that the brackets aren't centered in the frame so measure/mark carefully 2.) have a Z bracket bent - I used 1/4" rather than 3/16th and then hand cut the back of the bracket to fit the X in the cross tubes - all for $35. 3.) leave a little extra room between the FFR mounting brackets so the mounting area on the pumpkin will fit/slide easily inside the bracket. 4.) locate your bolt holes carefully since clearance on the back side/rear of triangular plate that is welded into the frame is tight. I put one hole in between the brackets and one on the drivers side. I had to put a small notch in the weld on the back side to accommodate the bolt head on the DS hole. 5.) the vertical holes through the 1X2 cross brace were no problem 6.) To make sure that the pumpkin flange is at right angles to the drive shaft I C-clamped a 4' straight edge to the flange and leveled it and measured the distance on either side from the vertical frame tube - in my car about 1/8" on either side - tightened everything up. Thanks to MikeinAtlanta for the idea and MikeN for consultation and welding.... I'm quite happy with the results and can pull and install the pumpkin by myself. I can send pics to anyone who is interested.

[russelljones48]

IRS BUSHING CLEARANCES

Can someone tell me what the bolt to bushing clearance should be for the 3 mounting bolts on the IRS knuckles? I have the knuckles from a '98 Lincoln M8 that have been rebuilt with new poly bushings. I am using the salvaged M14 bolts at this point. They measure about .546" and have what I estimate is about .015 clearance (my smallest wire gauge is .020 and just about fits). When assembled the whole knuckle wobbles a bit which doesn't seem right to me. I also checked the heim-to-bolt clearance on the IRS arms and that clearance is near 0. I have checked the bolts for wear and they don't appear to have noticeable wear - I checked against new M14's and the new bolt measure the same. If this is the right factory clearance does anyone have a suggestion as to how to reduce the clearance to eliminate the wobble?

[russelljones48]

I feel obliged and a little embarrassed to put this post up. After participating in a post regarding the lower rear shock/coil-over mounts where I quoted the build manual, page 137, as saying "the large spacer goes to the rear" and others had recommended putting it towards the front, I pulled the IRS apart (yet again) removed the coils and tested the set up. Guess what - page 137 is WRONG. The lower coil-over mount binds on the lower arm about 1/2 way through its travel. The longer/larger lower bushing needs to be towards the front of the car. Since IMHO this could be a serious problem FFR needs to correct the manual.

Thanks to those who posted on this problem and made the recommendation on how to test the entire IRS for travel. BTW I'm also a little concerned that the UCA needs a bump stop. At max travel it is only about 1/8" from the frame rail above it - any recommendations?

[russelljones48]

So it's been a while since I updated my build thread. I'm just about to the point where I'm happy with the front and rear suspension and will start on the brake system, fuel system etc. I will apologize for my lack of picture loading experience - so no pics but I will send them via email if anyone wants or cares :-)

Here's the summary on my IRS:

IRS Installation details and mods:
1.) Diff/pumpkin 1998 Lincoln Mark VIII rebuilt with Ford Racing 3:55’s and a Torsen style limited slip with new bearings seals etc.
2.) Ford Racing diff rear cover with girdles
3.) Removable rear Diff/pumpkin rear mount (basic design by Mikeinatlanta) – custom fabricated
3a. Polyurethane front mounts
4.) Replaced FFR heims with US made (higher quality)
5.) Replaced all bolts with shortened longer bolts so all “bearing surfaces” of heims and shocks ride on bolt shoulders not on thread
6.) Replaced all spacing bushings with thick wall brass bushing material with proper I.D. i.e. 1/2” and 5/8”
7.) Replaced shock mounting bolts with longer grade 8 flange bolts and nuts
7a. NOTE: page 137 of the FFR manual states that the longer bushing goes toward the rear. Those instructions were not correct for my car. The lower spring mount would contact the lower arm with minimal suspension movement. I reversed the bushings and got full suspension movement with no interference.
8.) Ground welds around various welds so flange heads and nuts fit flat against mounting area
9.) Added 1/2” “doughnut bump stop to rear shocks
10.) Initial set up according to Richard Oben and FFR specs for track, camber and toe.
Pictures via email if you PM me -


IFS updates to come. All of this has taken SOOOO much longer than I wanted and maybe I'm overdoing and over thinking but the changes aren't particularly expensive just a bit labor intensive. I've probably spent almost 2 days at various "hardware" and fastener stores. It's really a good thing that my area has so many race shops and the support structure for them....

[russelljones48]

IDEAS for Wilwood pedal box in a Mark IV

Rather than cut the frame or remove a lot of material from the clutch arm, I've decided to try and use multiple tweaks to eliminate or minimize the the amount of material I need to take out of the clutch arm. I first located a Wilwood NASCAR pedal set and measured the distance between the brake and clutch pedals to determine if it was OK to move them closer together - the NASCAR pedal set had the pedals about 1/2" closer than the FFR set so I think it should be OK to move the clutch pedal to the right. I also checked my Porsche pedals and those measurements confirm that I probably won't end up with the pedals being too close.

So, by shimming the clutch pedal and taking off the 1/16" boss of the inside of the pedal arm I was able to move it towards the bake pedal about 1/8".

Questions:

Can the mounting holes (either bracket or mount) be slotted to move the entire assembly towards the center of the car by 1/8 - 1/4"?

I had another suggestion - has anyone tried shimming "up" the right side of the mount to cant the pedals a little bit away from the frame?

Any other ideas so I can avoid cutting the clutch arm? Comments on the approach?

[edwardb]

IDEAS for Wilwood pedal box in a Mark IV

Rather than cut the frame or remove a lot of material from the clutch arm, I've decided to try and use multiple tweaks to eliminate or minimize the the amount of material I need to take out of the clutch arm. I first located a Wilwood NASCAR pedal set and measured the distance between the brake and clutch pedals to determine if it was OK to move them closer together - the NASCAR pedal set had the pedals about 1/2" closer than the FFR set so I think it should be OK to move the clutch pedal to the right. I also checked my Porsche pedals and those measurements confirm that I probably won't end up with the pedals being too close.

So, by shimming the clutch pedal and taking off the 1/16" boss of the inside of the pedal arm I was able to move it towards the bake pedal about 1/8".

Questions:

Can the mounting holes (either bracket or mount) be slotted to move the entire assembly towards the center of the car by 1/8 - 1/4"?

I had another suggestion - has anyone tried shimming "up" the right side of the mount to cant the pedals a little bit away from the frame?

Any other ideas so I can avoid cutting the clutch arm? Comments on the approach?

I see from you thread you're doing a Coyote. Which sheet metal? The standard FF mod motor sheet metal, or perhaps the modded panels from King? The reason I ask is if you're doing the standard FF mod motor sheet metal, you already will have reduced footspace on the accelerator side. Don't do anything that would move the pedals toward the middle of the car. Even with King's modded parts, which basically restores the space to the same as with a pushrod motor, the space is about as tight as I would personally want it. On the clutch side, I personally think it's important to have enough space to get your foot past the clutch for comfort. If you move the pedals that way, a problem IMO. A lot of words to say if you have something that would put the pedals closer together, possibly a solution. But I wouldn't do anything that reduces the space on either side. My other question is have you tried to install the steering column yet? It runs very close to the brake pedal arm. It wouldn't take much movement to create an interference there, including tipping the pedal box, which I wouldn't do anyway. I personally won't cut the pedal arm. Guys have done it, but not my choice. But the frame mod is literally a couple hour job. I've done it on both of my Mk4's. Frankly, way easier than any of the options you've described here. You asked...

[2bking]

Edward makes very good points. I cut the pedal after doing some fundamental stress analysis and found adequate stress margin with a 50 pound pedal force. Some cut a little out of both pedal arm and frame. Edward has a simple frame mod for cutting the frame.

[russelljones48]

Thank you both. Sorry for the delayed response - I've been out of town. I've read through both of your threads on this topic - as well as through much of your other M4 build posts. Based on both of your posts and my analysis and research I opted to trim the pedal - my skills would pretty much prohibit me from cutting and replacing the frame section.

Very good point on the pedal box. At the moment all I have is the FFR/Willwood pedal box components and haven't seen a new offering for the pre-made extended footbox. If I can't get one pre-made I will probably end up making one myself. Any news on another edition of the extended footbox for the Coyote?

Since King's cut appears to be only about 1/4" - 3/8" I was hoping to minimize it by moving things slightly towards the center of the car. However, based Edwardb's cautions, I will focus on just the clutch pedal and leave the overall box alone until I can assess the whole area.

[edwardb]

Thank you both. Sorry for the delayed response - I've been out of town. I've read through both of your threads on this topic - as well as through much of your other M4 build posts. Based on both of your posts and my analysis and research I opted to trim the pedal - my skills would pretty much prohibit me from cutting and replacing the frame section.

Very good point on the pedal box. At the moment all I have is the FFR/Willwood pedal box components and haven't seen a new offering for the pre-made extended footbox. If I can't get one pre-made I will probably end up making one myself. Any news on another edition of the extended footbox for the Coyote?

Since King's cut appears to be only about 1/4" - 3/8" I was hoping to minimize it by moving things slightly towards the center of the car. However, based Edwardb's cautions, I will focus on just the clutch pedal and leave the overall box alone until I can assess the whole area.

Couple follow-up responses. It's not clear to me whether you've already cut the clutch pedal or not. For the record, on my current Mk4 build the interference is quite a bit more than it was on the first one. I'm not sure what might have changed, but a 1/4 to 3/8 inch cut in the pedal still would interfere in my current build. I just can't get my head around cutting the pedal in the first place, since the genesis of this whole problem is Wilwood made the arms beefier (and a different material) based on breakage in the first place. OK, it was in a different location on the pedal (above the pivot) but still... Just a feeling and don't bother me with the data. :) Anyway, just make sure before you start cutting that it's not going to take more material than you expect.

One other comment about moving the pedal box toward the center. I just checked my current build. With the brake pedal depressed, the pedal arm is only about 3/16 inch away from the steering column to the right. Quite tight. There is no way I would move that pedal box over any closer. Both brake pedal and steering column are obviously high safety items, and interference just can't happen. Beside, IMO (not mentioned before) you would have to make new holes in the aluminum and steel footbox fronts, plus the bracket that FF supplies to support the footbox on the chassis 3/4 inch tubes on the back side now wouldn't line up properly. If you're not comfortable making a notch in the frame, I can't imagine these would be too easy either.

I've noticed a number of small subtle changes and improvements on my new Mk4 build compared to #7750 from several years ago. So clearly FF is still trying to make the Roadster better. But this is one issue that still exists and it's too bad. Nearly every build references it. I don't think it would be hard to fix in the chassis fixture when the frame is being welded. I've heard (not first hand) that if you call FF and ask about this problem, they say to take a big hammer to the 3/4 inch tube and collapse it slightly. That's maybe not a terrible solution, but again not one that I would be happy with. I should have looked more closely at some of their builds when I was there for the open house in June. Would be curious to see if that's really what they did.

[russelljones48]

Thanks. The only mod I've made is to shave off the boss/bump on the inside of the pivot point on the arm. I have also bought some shims and shimmed the pedal as far to the right as is possible in the cage. Those 2 minor changes moved the clutch arm about 1/8" to the right but only in the cage. The clutch pedal is now that 1/8" closer to the brake pedal. I used a combination of nylon and shims and the ones supplied with the pedal kit to both relocate that arm a bit and tighten up the play in both arms. A Tilton racing pedal set I looked over had "nylon" shims so I'm assuming they will work fine and reduce play and rattles.

I really appreciate your comments and the effort you've made to check your build. Your advice is well taken and I am going to wait to see what the whole area looks like assembled. I can't imagine taken ye old sledge to that tube although I considered getting a porta-power in there I think the area is too close to the 3/16" plate and the weld. Would be afraid of breaking the weld or worse.

And I agree with you although you can probably set the pedal up high enough to avoid needing to make these mods it seems unacceptable that this hasn't been fixed by either FFR or Wilwood - especially since the Wilwood racing pedal box I measured had the pedals close enough to probably solve this problem.....

[russelljones48]

Mike Noyes stopped by to help me triple check the initial suspension set up and then to discuss this pedal box problem. He had what I think is a great suggestion that looks like it will solve the problem with my minimal fabrication skills: Proposal:

1.) Cut the frame tube just inside the bulkhead
2.) Bend the tube to the outside 3/4" so that (if extended) it would be parallel/side by side with the original tube on the front side of the bulkhead
3.) Insert about 8" of 9/16" square steel rod about 4 inches into the piece inside the footbox so that the 4" extension is parallel to the outside piece of the frame tube
4.) Insert about 4" of the same tubing into the piece in front of the bulkhead.
5.) Drill and bolt the side by side pieces together
6.) Drill and bolt the piece inside the frame rail that's still in the footbox

This is quite similar to Edwardb's mod but does not require cutting a piece of the frame out and should only require hand tools. I'm off to get some square steel rod.. Comments please. BTW I checked a completed M4 Coyote this morning (Thanks Alex P) and the extra piece on the outside of the bulkhead/footbox shouldn't interfere with anything in the build.

[russelljones48]

It was a little more involved than I originally thought but I'm very pleased with the results. It worked just about how I described it above but I will document completely when I figure out how to load pics> For the moment I hope I can get the picture of the final installed "fix" into this post.

[russelljones48]

46461

So, IMO this is a simple and straightforward fix for the Mark IV Wilwood pedal box clutch arm problem. Basically it's: cut the 3/4" square tube at the inside of the bulkhead, bend it to the outside so an inserted 5/8" square steel rod will run parallel to the remaining piece outside of the bulkhead. Insert a 5" piece of the 5/8" square rod from the bulkhead forward into the piece that is forward of the bulkhead. Create and 8" piece of the 5/8" square rod and insert 4" into the piece inside the pedal box - drill tap and screw. Drill, tap and screw the piece forward of the bulkhead to the original piece in front of the bulkhead.

THANKS to Mike Noyes for the idea on this and for consultation on the mod....

The clutch pedal now moves all of the way to the end of the footbox with no interference. All of this was accomplished for $10 and mostly hand tools. I did use my bench top drill press but could have used a hand drill - so all of this can be done with hand tools. More pics and description to come.

[edwardb]

Great job. Looks like a simple and strong solution. Now you can move on to more important things. :)

[2bking]

Very clever solution. I like it. It looks to be much stronger than the other methods.

[russelljones48]

Thanks for the input and assistance. And to Mike Noyes for the idea and time he's spent with me.. If I can EVER figure out how to get pics from my phone to my laptop and then on to this site consistently I will document the whole mod process. Not sure why I'm having trouble since I've spent my whole life in IT but this combination of phone to PC to boards has me baffled.. and of course, it's got Google/gmail in the middle to complicate matters.

[russelljones48]

So this is the starting picture with the frame tube cut and bent 3/4" to the outside. I debated if I should cut the windshield mount where it meets the bar and decided to leave it connected. Glad I did since it really didn't budge and therefore should have no impact on the windshield and it helped to maintain the last weld on the tube. I made the cut with my little sanding/cutting vibrating tool. I used hardwood blocks and my long pry bar braced against the tubes in the footbox to bend the tube out to the position you see here.

not sure why I can't get this pic in the post see following post

Things I might consider if I was doing this again: do this before the aluminum is installed against the bulkhead. I might use a cut off wheel rather than the hacksaw blade because the thin cut left some interference with the two pieces when I went to bend the tube to the outside. At this point I went to a local steel supply store and bought a 2' piece of 5/8" X 5/8" square bar for about $8.

Next step is to cut 4-5" of the steel bar, clean up the tube piece that's still attached to the bulkhead and insert (tap in) the bar.

46494

This is a top-down view of the re-positioned tube. You can see where the tube bent at the end of the windshield mount. I used the long piece (now about 20") of the 5/8" bar inserted in the outside tube to fine tune the position. However it was now apparent that getting the extension parallel to the inside tube would take a bit more work.
46495

This pic shows the long piece of the bar clamped to the inside tube. This was about all I could get the outside tube to bend so next step was to bend the 5/8" bar so that the 4-5" closest to the inside tube would be parallel and bolt up easily or relatively easily... To do that I marked the spot where I wanted the bar to bend, clamped it into my vice, slipped a 3' piece of galvanized persuader onto the bar and bent it (with 2 or 3 trial fittings) to be parallel to the inside tube. Here's 3 shots that show the bent bar held in place with a small c-clamp, a view from the footbox, and the trial pedal assembly with the clutch pedal up against the aluminum. All of this was a little more work than I thought because the 3/4" tubing has some curves but all-in-all only an hour or so and now it was off to the hardware store for some 12.9 button head bolts: 1/4 X 20 of various lengths with some washers etc. so I didn't have to make another trip.

46496
46497
46498

Now I needed to drill and tap my 4 holes. I took out the long piece after marking the outside and drilling through the steel tube wall on the inside of the pedal box to mark the 5/8" bar. I just drilled through the tube wall to mark the bar with a small drill bit. Then removed the whole bar and drilled the holes - with the right drill for tapping the all 4 holes to 1/4 X 20. I'll explain why I tapped all 4 in a minute. But here's a couple more shots of the long bar with holes. I'd hoped you could see the bend but it's too slight for the camera to really pick it up.

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With all 4 holes drilled and the 2 inner holes tapped in the bar, I opened up the 2 holes on the tube inside the box to 9/32" slid the bar in and threaded in 2 bolts (1/4 X 20 X 3/4") to pin the bar in place. I clamped the outside portion of the bar to the the 3/4" tube (close to the F panel and drilled through the holes through the inner tube with the bar inside.

I removed the long bar again and tapped the holes in the bar, re-positioned it in the car again, and tapped the holes in the inner bar. I chose to do it this way to make sure that the tap would go straight into the inside tube and bar. Might not have been needed but was just a precaution. Note: the holes go all the way through the inner tube and bar that's outside of the bulkhead - but do not go all the way through on the bar inside the footbox - the inner wall of the tube is left intact and smooth. Next, still working with the long bar it was removed and the outer 2 holes were drilled out to 1/4" to remove the threads. One more final fitment with the long bar showed everything bolted in as planned.

46502

Now I marked the spot where I wanted to cut it, cut the bar to that mark, cleaned it up and you can see final fitment below before it gets it paint job. Also pictured is the final piece.

46503

you can see the final part in the next post - I think I ran out of room in this post.

[russelljones48]

46504 Picture of piece. You can see in this picture that one of the holes is a bit out of line. The bulkhead aluminum interfered with my drill and I was off just a bit. BUT it works fine - just not perfectly aligned...

First pic from prior post

46526

[KDubU]

I like this idea and have been humming and hawing which way to go. Definitely going this way as it seems a strong solution.

[russelljones48]

Kyle - PM me if you have questions. I'm very happy with the fix. I'm a bit spoiled because the other car I "row" around is a Porsche and the ergonomics are pretty good... I'm going to pull it apart once more clean it up and paint with POR and I'm done.

[russelljones48]

One final change. I did this as I cleaned up and painted the part and frame pieces yesterday but it should be done earlier. When you insert the first piece of 5/8" bar into the tube that's still attached to the bulkhead - leave it protruding about 1/4". Then cut the tube you've just bent so that it sits back against the 1/4" extension. This will make it easier to get the bar parallel to the frame. What I also did that I didn't mention above was to wedge some washers between the 2 tubes next to the bulkhead to add leverage for bending the tube.

[russelljones48]

2 last pics - painted and installed

46528

46529

[russelljones48]

Finally - big brakes AND wheels that fit. My FFR Halibrands will go up for sale soon......

47308
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[CraigS]

Russell and Mike, this is a great way to deal w/ the interference. Looks very strong to me. My only suggestion is that the bolts inside the foot box could be run vertically so that you could have a through bolt w/ a nut on the end.

[russelljones48]

Craig - that's a great suggestion - after finishing up I think a through bolt would have worked with the bolts horizontal - they're far enough back. Drilling vertically might be a better idea.

[russelljones48]

It has been a while for a post for me. I am still making progress but much more slowly over the last few months. I have had numerous distractions - good ones but it's now time to get back to work and I have a question I hope someone can help with. I've begun to assemble the drivetrain and I'm using the Coyote motor, the stock 9-bolt Ford Racing flywheel and a Spec Stage 2 clutch. My question is this: I'd like to use ARP pressure plate bolts and the only ones I can find are 10X1.5X25 MM. They are sold for the earlier modular motor and I haven't been able to determine if the are an exact fit or if not that they will be OK. The Ford Racing "kit" includes locator pins which I don't need and I would prefer the ARP hardware. Has anyone used these bolts in this application? Did they work OK? Does anyone know the exact dimensions of the FR bolts?

Thanks

[Mike N]

I believe that the Coyote pressure plate bolts are 10mm x 1.0mm pitch not 1.5mm. http://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-detail.php?RecordID=4567

You need to use pins to locate the pressure plate. I'm assuming that when you say you don't need the pins you mean that the flywheel already has pins installed.

[edwardb]

I believe that the Coyote pressure plate bolts are 10mm x 1.0mm pitch not 1.5mm. http://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-detail.php?RecordID=4567

You need to use pins to locate the pressure plate. I'm assuming that when you say you don't need the pins you mean that the flywheel already has pins installed.

Your link is to the flywheel bolts to the crankshaft. Not pressure plate to flywheel that are being asked about. I posted this in the other forum: I bought the Ford Racing pressure plate and dowel kit, M-6397-A46. It includes 10mm x 1.5 bolts, and I can confirm they fit the Ford Racing billet flywheel I'm using with my Coyote. I like ARP stuff too, but the kit from FR I'm sure is fine. $14 from Summit.

[Mike N]

Ah yes. They are flywheel bolts. I stand corrected.

[russelljones48]

I should preface this with the fact that I'm no lighting expert or EE but I do try to look for those who present facts and well founded opinions. I'm going to contribute my findings here so, hopefully, others can benefit from my research. I did a quick search here and did not find much on the roadster headlights and since LEDs have progressed quite a bit I'm upgrading the lighting on my FFR - almost everything on the car. But in researching my options I found that there's so much junk out there on the WEB (opinion and equipment) to sift through it's taken me a while to figure out the decent options and that's just for the headlights.. Couple of thank you's to 2 valuable resources: Daniel Stern and candlepowerforums. Both of these resources deal in fact and not hype... Ultimately here's the options I came up with.

Option 1.) "Better" OEM lights. There are a couple good replacement sealed beams that may be better than what's on your car. GE Nighthawks are an example. The improvement isn't good enough for me since I occasionally drive rural 2 lanes at night.

Option 2.) Convert to Halogens. According to Daniel Stern and others there are 2 7" reflectors out there that are good - Cibie which Daniel sells and Koito which are pricier and harder to find. This option will also need the installation of a good relay and wiring. approximate cost is in the $250 - $300 range plus the time or labor to install. Here's a quote on the Halogens: Halogen headlamps: Put in a set of Cibie replaceable-bulb headlamp units, $79/ea. They are the best focused, most efficient readily-available lamps of their type to fit your application. All of the reputable-brand 7" headlamps presently available (Cibie, Bosch, Hella, Koito) are well made of good quality materials, but the Cibies are the most efficient, best focused, highest performing units of their type -- more detail on request. There's a great deal of junk on the market, too. Delta, Roundeyes, Adjure, Eagle Eye, Eaglite, Maxtel, Eurolite, and dozens of other off-brand units mostly from China. Avoid all of it. Also take cautious note that many vendors are offering Bosch 7" H4 headlamps at blowout prices of about fifty bucks a pair. Nice price, but they are surplus motorcycle headlamps, and though they'll physically fit, they aren't car/truck headlamps and their performance isn't adequate for car/truck service. (There is an H4 lamp better than the Cibie, made in Japan by Koito, but it is enough more expensive and difficult to get hold of that its cost-effectiveness is kind of iffy).

Option 3.) LED headlamps. My research (mostly from the site named candlepowerforums) tells me that there are 3 decent LED headlamps out there: Peterson, Trucklites, and JW Speaker. The Speaker Evolution II's seems to be the pick of the litter but the others perform well too. Approximate price range: $400 - $600 for the pair and they are direct plug ins for a well maintained harness and use less power
than the OEMs. Note: the major brand LED units like the GE are mostly re-brands of the 3 above and are a bit more expensive.

Option 4.) HID's. Here's the quote from Daniel Stern and this is similar to advice from others out there who know lighting. He can say this much better than I can and it is obviously his opinion but all of the
other experts and the tests that I saw support this view.
"There is exactly one legitimate, legal, well-made, good-performing HID headlamp to fit your vehicle. It is built around the Hella high/low-beam projector used in current-model higher-end Mercedes, BMWs, Audis, Porsches, etc. Beam performance is vastly superior to what can be obtained with tungsten/halogen light bulbs in any optic unit. Power consumption is less than that of halogen headlamps. Bulb lifespan is about 10 years. The lens is almost-impossible- to-break borosilicate glass (no haze/fog/scratch-up issue like plastic lenses give) Beam focus is broad, robust, and highly precise, with excellent control of glare and stray light; when these lamps are aimed correctly they are inoffensive to other road users on low beam. They are also fully road-legal. It is a very costly option; price for the pair is $1523.62 (with black bezel you can paint if you want). Chrome bezel is available for +$100 (pair). Price is all-inclusive; you do not need to get any additional components. All wiring components, bulbs, ballasts, etc. are included; it is plug-and- play. I stock them. Photos attached show these lamps in a Jeep and a Porsche. This is, by a large margin, the best-performing headlamp system to fit a 7" round application such as yours.

I hope this helps others here. The mis-information on this topic out there made my head spin. Read Daniel's tech info and go to candlepower. IMHO if you buy much of the stuff out there you will be lucky to get decent headlights. I've ordered the JW Speaker units from Northridge 4X4 for $480. And I will take Daniels advice on LED's for directional and taillights..

[russelljones48]

SHEET METAL INSTALL

It looks like I can skip the usual apology for the length of time between posts... :-). I'm probably not going to be a good build documenter, but I've made progress in fits and starts in the last few months. I have now almost completed the sheet metal install (thanks to Richard Oben's advice) and wanted to offer some observations for first time builders.

First, my approach for the car is that I may not choose to cover my aluminum so I want it to look as good as possible with uniform rivet spacing and patterns and a consistent finish. So, I may appear a little OCD about this topic.

My first advice would be to follow Richard's advice. Do all or almost all of the sheet metal in one fell swoop but do it with Cleco's not rivets. He's much quicker than I am so it took me a couple of weeks (not days) - I would say 40-50 hours.

My second piece of advice would be to pretty much ignore the FFR manual and definitely DON'T install piece by piece. Assemble an area or section together and fit/modify all of the pieces in that area together before doing any drilling and Clecoing.

I want to digress a bit and talk about the tools I used and what I might change. I used 4 different drills: a regular corded drill, a regular cordless drill, an air drill ( as small as you can find for tight places) and my bench top drill press for pre-drilling panels. Buy LOTS of drill bits - I've already gone through about 20. Also figure out a quick way to lube your bits for each hole. My solution was to use a thimble sized cup (plastic AN fitting cover) and fill it with aerosol white grease for dipping.

I ended up with over 100 Clecos and a small set of the Cleco clamps (these proved invaluable for temporary set up and as a working clamps). If I had this to do again I would buy another set of Cleco pliers since I was constantly retrieving it from the car or from my work area - they were never in the right spot when I needed them.

For minor trimming I used my tin snip set, my die grinder with various bits, and my belt sander for longer edges. There were several areas where the frame welds interfered with proper sheet fit and some areas where the panel didn't match the frame - most notably the trans tunnel. For longer cuts and for fabrication I found these power shears invaluable: http://www.eastwood.com/electric-metal-cutting-shears.html. They aren't perfect but with a guide and/or careful use they worked very well for me and for $50 I wonder what I did without them. I also found that my relatively complete set of "wood" hole saws were very handy and they work well on aluminum if lubricated with the white grease. I even found that spade bits are good for aluminum with lube.

There's still one area where I've struggled but I think I've found a solution. My conundrum was that I wanted the rivets to look good on the back side in some cases. Specifically in the driver's side foot box the funky/ragged ends of the pop rivets could snag clothing or shoes in that tight space. So, I punched out the ends of the pop rivets and tried expanding and flattening them (see youtube). This worked OK but left a hole in the center of the rivet which I would then have to seal - too many steps.. The solution looks like solid rivets for those areas. However, this requires special tools: a special air hammer and specialized dollies.. I have some aircraft buddies who will loan me the tools so I won't incur the expense ($150-200) for 20 - 30 rivets.

Lastly, there's lots of areas/gaps that will need to be filled and to look good they will need black or silver/gray caulk and to be carefully taped to create nice looking joints - but that's for final assembly... I do hope this helps someone who's new to all this sheet metal and rivets.

[awd-turbo]

Dude, just saw this.... I am in charlotte on the Gastonia side... I am doing the wire and body work right now while I wait for the engine to be finished!

[russelljones48]

We should get together - there's also another M4 Coyote being built in Concord. He and I are going up to Whitby tomorrow and help with each other's cars when we can... PM me for my phone, address, etc..

[russelljones48]

A quick update for those who want to use a Ford inertia switch (there are a few). The cheapest switch I could find was from Tasca Ford PN 5L1Z-9341-A Price $37.81 without shipping. You then need the pigtail and Ford gets almost $50 for it. I found it at Rockauto for $27.79 - search for PN WPT1001 (the Ford part number) less shipping.

[russelljones48]

Speed Dial for the Gen 1 Coyote??

When I originally started (yes, I Know, a long time ago) I put the FR speed dial in my wish list on Summit. Just discovered they no longer carry it BUT no one else does either. I can't find any posts about a substitute and I certainly don't want to spend $1200 for a new controls pack.. Does anyone know how people are now addressing the OSS/VSS conversion to the Gen 1 FR controls pack?

[edwardb]

Speed Dial for the Gen 1 Coyote??

When I originally started (yes, I Know, a long time ago) I put the FR speed dial in my wish list on Summit. Just discovered they no longer carry it BUT no one else does either. I can't find any posts about a substitute and I certainly don't want to spend $1200 for a new controls pack.. Does anyone know how people are now addressing the OSS/VSS conversion to the Gen 1 FR controls pack?

I certainly don't. Never installed a Gen 1, But have noticed the speed dial and apparently even the Gen 1 control packs are no longer available. I do recall seeing some builds posting that they were successful getting the Gen 1 stall condition the speed dial was supposed to solve resolved with a custom tune. Maybe that's something to check out.

[Blitzboy54]

Finally - big brakes AND wheels that fit. My FFR Halibrands will go up for sale soon......

47308
47309

Oh Man, I bought those EXACT same wheels for mine in all black.


Great minds lol

[russelljones48]

These were required - although I like them a lot - to clear the AP brakes - much bigger caliper/rotor combo.. :cool: I may add color to the outside rim. I've picket the basic color - flat white with gloss black trim.. still debating if and what the accent colors will be

[russelljones48]

Paul,

Thanks. My research showed that a tune might be a possibility. I also had something like this suggested: I'd like to get firm confirmation on either or both.

Dakota Digital SGI 100BT

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dakota-Digital-SGI-100BT-Universal-Speedometer-Tachometer-Signal-Interface/184325521721?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.S EED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225074%26meid%3D7ae5352c1ecb4 2afb73c609621c2e742%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt% 3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D281392052483%26itm%3D18 4325521721%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A23462d1d-0a5d-11eb-a8a7-46ba22314c60%7Cparentrq%3A0e9e821d1750ac3d414ddb8e ffde257e%7Ciid%3A1

[russelljones48]

OH and I also find I'm in need of the motor mount spacers (they've been ordered from FFR) and the actual Ford motor mounts - my kit didn't come with either. I need the Ford make/model or part # for the mounts. They look like the SN95 DOHC mounts but I'm not 100%...so I'd like to confirm.

[russelljones48]

OK, of all of the problems that have surfaced since my restart here's what I've found or done.

1.) the GM/Corvette fuel regulator/filter isn't recommended solution: ordered the Aeromotive unit and an ISS mechanical FP Gauge (the only gauge that appears to be reliable. Still need a filter and may have to remote mount the gauge - all TBD
2.) motor mounts and spacers not in my kit. solution:they sell all the pieces but they're impossible to find on the web site. Thank goodness for a prompt email response from FFR staff - all ordered
3.) unavailable speed dial to resolve stalling issue on Gen 1 drivetrains. solution: this may not pan out but with some guidance from an ex Ford engineer and some research - here's what I've found. Ford uses their own frequency/signal for the ECU/controls pack. Tremec installs a manufacturer specific OSS sensor in the transmission. Mine is Ford Blue which (according to research) should generate the correct output to the control pack. I will confirm this if I can with Ford Tech support on Monday but at this point my guess is that I can wire directly to my Gen 1 control pack unless it's expecting something different - or the problem is something different than the signal/frequency from the speed sensor. I may be able to convert that if necessary with the above mentioned Dakota Digital unit.

So much for getting the engine in by Friday...

[Railroad]

Your tuner might be able to work around the lack of a speed dial.

[russelljones48]

So, after a lot of research and various email conversations here are my not so authoritative conclusions on the "speed dial".
Ford Racing no longer makes/markets a Speed Dial and the one they referred me too looks like their original OEM supplier.. It's an Abbot device. However, I'm going to buy a Dakota Digital unit which has more functionality and is almost 1/2 the price

So, here's my logic concerning VSS signals (VSS is an overall term that includes both ISS and OSS - took me a while to find that). Both signals are simply used to tell the ECM/TCM engine speed ISS) and/or driveshaft speed (OSS). The software can use it for many types of calculations. The FR Coyote ECM needs an output shaft signal. I still haven't figured out why it needs "conversion" on some of our cars but here's my logic.

OSS just transmits a frequency based on overall drivetrain "gearing" - represented by driveshaft speed - my TKO 600 has the Ford OSS sensor/connector
ECU/PCM uses the frequency to compute a number of things including vehicle speed
Therefore the ECU/PCM must have a number programmed as a base so it has a starting point (could be changed by a tuner/programer)
If that starting point has too much variance from what's coming from the OSS then
The PCM/ECU may alter throttle, AF ratios, etc. that are not appropriate for the actual speed of the vehicle - I guess in our case during very low speeds
This may be very vehicle dependent - i.e. a different reaction for a 4:10 or a 3:08 rear or cars with tire diameters that could throw it off.
Therefore a speed dial may not be needed if the "base number" is close, so some cars may have no problems

I conclude that I should at least plan for the installation of a frequency converter/speed dial? I could wire it in with zero conversion and see what happens.. and the Dakota Digital boxes seem to offer the most functionality and ease of "programming" would therefore be my logical choice. Dakota Digital has a good rep and functionality and price is quite good..

PLEASE anyone with more knowledge please chime in!! I'm certainly no EC/TCM expert..

[russelljones48]

So after a few years of working on other projects and cars I've started back on the FFR.. I've never been a very good or active poster but I've refined my selection criteria for posts and will probably only post things I've done that I hope will help others via my solutions as options. I've now pretty much completed the cooling system with a lot of help from EdwardB's builds - see pics. And the second "system" I'm now working on is the fuel system. I have the later Mustang parts (fuel tank and filler) which can have a return system as part of the stock components (from the '99 Mustang GT - the only year that had a stock return system) as well as a stock rollover valve in the filler tube. Several challenges and solutions have to do with the positon of the firewall and my desire to mount things on it and still have them serviceable or to locate them elsewhere. I've gotten a lot of tips and help from a local Mustang expert - a godsend. The location of the fuel regulator and the tip about the '99 return system came from him. Here's some pics with descriptions of what I did and why..

Lower hose. See Edwardb for part numbers - 2 different hoses spliced with alum. tubing - 270 degree mandrel bent alum. tube - purchased online with Gates heat shrink "clamps"

185154
185155

The tank in the other photo is a Dorman 603-298 (Rock auto $61) for a 2014 Mustang - it's braced on the bottom with an aluminum "U" channel to the X brace and mounted to a handmade steel bracket that, in turn, mounts to the 3/4" cross tube.

The next post will be the mounting for the fuel regulator and gauge...

[russelljones48]

So, here's the fuel regulator/gauge mount. This is due to my reluctance to locate anything that might require service on the firewall under the body lip. I saw this on a Mustang/Coyote conversion and it's similar mount has been running on that car for several years. I also confirmed with Aeromotive that the regulator can be mounted any way except upside down.. I probably won't be using the dress up kit but I think it could be easily modified to accomodate this set up if I wanted to install it.

185225