Porsche Boxster S vs. Factory Five 818S!

[Mad Dog]

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/grm-818-build-part10-folio.jpg

“We started with nothing more than a pile of parts, a wrecked Subaru, and an instruction manual, and we finished with a car that can attract drooling bystanders, beat a Porsche on a track, and take you to work every day.” – Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/grm-feb-2015-818-buildup-pt-10-1.jpg

The crew at Grassroots Motorsports Magazine pitted their newly built Factory Five 818S against a well-sorted Porsche Boxster S in the tenth and final installment of their build series.

A year ago, we delivered one of the first Factory Five 818 kits to Tim Suddard (GRM Editor) and his crew at Grassroots Motorsports Magazine. With help from Wayne Presley at VeryCoolParts.com, Tim and his team proceeded to disassemble a donor Subaru WRX, and used the running gear to build their Factory Five 818.

The February 2015 issue of Grassroots Motorsports is on newsstands now, and includes this final road test evaluation of the newly-minted 818S. Accomplished road racer and autocrosser Dan Shield did the driving, and the cars were tested head-to-head on the track and on the street. You can read the article below, or here’s a link with the entire build and testing history of the project – grassrootsmotorsports.com/818 (http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/2013-factory-five-818/).

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/grm-feb-2015-818-buildup-pt-10-2-3.jpg

“One car lets your neighbors know you finally made it, while the other car lets your neighbors know you literally made it.” – Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/grm-feb-2015-818-buildup-pt-10-4.jpg

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[wleehendrick]

Porsche... there is a substitute!

[C.Plavan]

Porsche... there is a substitute!

Being a Porsche and 818R owner, it looks like they fail to mention the purchase price (too small to read whole thing). You can buy a Boxster S for less than it costs to build a 818 in reality.

[wleehendrick]

Being a Porsche and 818R owner, it looks like they fail to mention the purchase price (too small to read whole thing). You can buy a Boxster S for less than it costs to build a 818 in reality.

Yeah, probably true, that was a cheap shot at their slogan :p. For a comfortable daily driver/commuter I'd take the Porsche hands-down. I got to track a new Boxster GTS and Cayman GTS recently and the combination of performance and comfort is amazing.

However, like any used European car, the purchase price is just the ante... getting it sorted for the track and maintaining it has got to be much more than the 818 considering the plethora of relatively inexpensive Subie go-fast parts.

[Kalstar]

Being a Porsche and 818R owner, it looks like they fail to mention the purchase price (too small to read whole thing). You can buy a Boxster S for less than it costs to build a 818 in reality.

I was thinking they could have chosen a far better competitor then the lowly Boxster. A C5/C6 or even a Lotus Elise would have been better. So much can whoop that Porsche, makes the 818 seem..... ok at best.

[C.Plavan]

I was thinking they could have chosen a far better competitor then the lowly Boxster. A C5/C6 or even a Lotus Elise would have been better. So much can whoop that Porsche, makes the 818 seem..... ok at best.

I totally agree. You can get that year of Boxster S for ~$10K, I think they spent $19k on their 818.

Yes, they needed to compare it to a Lotus. They did not do anyone any favors comparing it to a 12+ year old Boxster S.

What I want to do is compare my 818R to a Lotus 211. That would be a great comparison.

[coloskydiver]

I was thinking they could have chosen a far better competitor then the lowly Boxster. A C5/C6 or even a Lotus Elise would have been better. So much can whoop that Porsche, makes the 818 seem..... ok at best.

On thing to consider is that GRMS 818 is pretty much bone stock and on paper matches up to the Boxster. Some of the modified 818's being build would be comparable to an Elise.

[Kalstar]

On thing to consider is that GRMS 818 is pretty much bone stock and on paper matches up to the Boxster. Some of the modified 818's being build would be comparable to an Elise.

Ummm, I respectfully disagree. I owned an Elise ...2020 lbs 190hp. I currently own a finished (fairly stock) 818. Absolutely no comparison. The 818 is lighter with far more power. Even the Supercharged Lotus is only putting out 240hp. Under full steam the 818 is as quick as my C6.

[shinn497]

Personally I would want to see how a something like 25k 818SR with an sti engine, aero mods, some slight creature comforts (soft top and maybe A/C) could compare to a monster car like a 458, or mp4-12C. I would love to tell myself that a 350whp 818 can beat a 600 bhp supercar in power to weight , but I know there are other factors put in there. The huge appeal of the 818 is it is a giant killer but I'd want to see that for sure.

[FFR-ADV]

To make the project comparison more interesting I have seen some video for a Renegade Hybrid Boxster S with an LS engine. It appears that Renegade makes a Kit which uses the Kennedy Engineered Products transmission adapter and some custom water pump relocation parts to make it fit. American Muscle V8 in a lightweight European sports car sounds like a familiar good idea (same Porsche Handling with much more power). It turns out that the LS engines weigh about the same as the Boxster S engine. I imagine the cost of the build using a Boxster with a blown engine would be similar to an 818 build and would make an interesting comparison. Choices from LS1 to wild LS7 builds... I would love to see an actual head to head comparison. They are selling a Cayman style hardtop (for ~$2K I think) which could extend its season (plus it still has A/C, Heat and glass windows...)

37049


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylgwEvh4d_s

The 911 LS engine upgrade looks pretty interesting as well. Might also be a great year rounder.

I am still working on my 818S which will be a lot of fun.

Happy New Year!

[Kalstar]

There is no reason a LS would not fit in an 818.

[flynntuna]

Here we go...

[FFR-ADV]

Hi Kalstar.... I like where this is going... an LS in an 818... Yummy!

Does anyone make a transmission adapter from an LS to an STI transmission which could take the torque available from an LS?

BTW that does not take anything away from an 818 being faster than a stock Porsche Boxster S. Congrats!

Cheers!

[metalmaker12]

I have been thinking of this......, but a custom gas tank up front would need to be built. I would do the swap if someone wants to fund it. ..... Any takers. I need an 818 kit and wrx donor minus engine with an LS engine and harness and adaptor parts. It would be awesome!!

[metalmaker12]

I would think the 818 should have done even better. 16 car lengths is good, but twice that is better.

A stock s puts down 195 whp and like 170 torque @ 3000lbs which is 15.3 pounds per hp

The GRM 818 has 225 whp and 245 torque @2000lbs which is like 8.1- 8.8 pounds per tor/hp

[thall818]

Personally, I don't have the wallet to go racing a Porsche or Lotus. I can be more aggressive in an 818 without fear of body damage. A scratch, a fender, a hood, no big deal. Order a new one and fix it yourself. Buckle a fender and scrape a door and hood on Porsche and the costs go up quicker. I think I would be more timid in the Porsche.

I was at Mid-Ohio in the mid eighties and saw a GT-40 out on the track. He would stay away from all the other cars, go very slow through the turns, and let her loose on the straights, but only if no other cars were near. He was still having fun, but he was quite reserved. Winning was obviously not his goal.

[Kalstar]

If you look at overall dimension of an LS1 with Vette accessories, the length is nearly the same as the EJ. Looks like the firewall and tank would only need minor tweaks. Kenndey Engineering makes an adaptor already for GM to Subaru for sand rails. A decent 5.3 can be had for $500. Hopefully someone takes on Chris's challenge. The LS (even the baby 4.8) would put out over 300hp/300tq which would be very cool in an 818.

Love to see it happen, I would be interested in a V8 818 myself.

[Mechie3]

A handful of people have stuffed LS motors into a wrx.

[metalmaker12]

Yeah a v8 would be awesome, sign me up if that ever came to light.

[FFR-ADV]

Wow!

That is great news. The LS to STI transmission adapter from Kennedy Engineering is key. I imagined it was possible but did not see it listed on Kennedy Engineered Product's website, and could not find any AWD or FWD STI LS conversions documented. Factory Five has made the STI 2WD conversion available (track proven). The LS1 would likely be more than enough. A 480 HP, 475 ft-lb LS376 would be killer in an 818. An LS7 could be an over the top "Tim Taylor, More Power" 818.

Metalmaker is making quite an offer! VERY tempting!

Happy New Year!

[D2W]

Would the sti transmission really be able to handle the torque of a v8? If so why doesn't anyone use this transmission in their mid-engine kits?

[Hindsight]

I'm pretty sure the 6-speed from the STI would. Guys run 700hp (and 500-600 ft/lbs of torque) on those without issue. I wouldn't do it with a 5-speed though.

[Samiam1017]

I don't think an LS would fit. I measured my buddy's audi4.2 v8 to see if I thought that might fit. It's about 2in to big to fit
And the LS motors are a little bigger than that

[svanlare]

I have a 2004 Boxster S that is my current daily driver and while I can't really read the article here, when it shows up in the mailbox it should be a great read. I'm expecting the 818 to be a very different car, with the 818 being the autocross choice in the house after it is completed while the Boxster will continue to be the road-trip champ. We are firm believers in this house that what the world needs more of is 2 seat roadsters of any form.

[Canadian818]

When I contacted Kennedy about an adapter for my rotory to subaru trans, they replied "no" but mentioned there's been lots of interest in them making a LS to subaru adapter.

[Canadian818]

Also, the EJ is like 19" and most of the bell housing "room" is on the engine so most adapters would have to be at least 1".

[Wayne Presley]

Would the sti transmission really be able to handle the torque of a v8? If so why doesn't anyone use this transmission in their mid-engine kits?

Mostly its gearing, the overall is too short for the V8.

[Plebeian]

Anyone know what tires and what alignment settings were on the 818 compared to the Porsche? Just wondering if it was an apples to apples comparison.

[Oppenheimer]

I don't think an LS would fit. I measured my buddy's audi4.2 v8 to see if I thought that might fit. It's about 2in to big to fit
And the LS motors are a little bigger than that

Was it an S4? The 4.2 in the S4 Audi moved the timing chain stuff to the back of the motor (then proceeded to use crappy guides and tensioners, and its a motor pull to fix them), to make the motor short enough to fit in the tight A4 engine bay. So the S4 4.2 is only like 18" long.

[C.Plavan]

I don't think an LS would fit. I measured my buddy's audi4.2 v8 to see if I thought that might fit. It's about 2in to big to fit
And the LS motors are a little bigger than that


You can make anything fit with a plasma cutter, and welder.

[wleehendrick]

Was it an S4? The 4.2 in the S4 Audi moved the timing chain stuff to the back of the motor (then proceeded to use crappy guides and tensioners, and its a motor pull to fix them), to make the motor short enough to fit in the tight A4 engine bay. So the S4 4.2 is only like 18" long.

Yeah, VW/Audi screwed that one up, but it is pretty design...

http://www.dartauto.com/files/6313/4783/4451/4audis4repairdenver.JPG

The timing chain would be readily accessible in the 818, though!