Ninjanick's 818S Build Thread

[ninjanick]

I've been wanting to build an FFR for quite some time, but never really pulled the trigger. I don't know how well I will maintain this thread, but my build finally started when I took delivery of SN #258 12/18/14. The excitement and anxiety are still with me. My daughter and I plan to make this one unique. So far is been lots of unpacking and cleaning the donor parts. I'd like to thank Erik for his inspirational build and letting me see his 818e first hand.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ninjanwong/sets/72157649964158941/

[ninjanick]

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah66/ninjanwong/818S/IMG_0212_zps0e63cb22.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/ninjanwong/media/818S/IMG_0212_zps0e63cb22.jpg.html)
http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah66/ninjanwong/818S/IMG_0219_zps484ec5c4.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/ninjanwong/media/818S/IMG_0219_zps484ec5c4.jpg.html)
http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah66/ninjanwong/818S/IMG_0207_zps610f5fd0.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/ninjanwong/media/818S/IMG_0207_zps610f5fd0.jpg.html)

[ninjanick]

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8617/15938686460_4d22a5d0a2_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qhrWbY)

[07FIREBLADE]

Did you just get your kit or did you request the white body, I thought they switched to the red bodies. Its nice to have another 818 builder in socal

[AZPete]

Congrats, Nick, on the start of a fun trip building your 818.

[Frank818]

Nick, welcome home (the forums :)).
Don't worry, you will make it unique, all 818 are unique, unlike all say Porsches, Ferraris, Fords, etc.. That's the beauty of a kit car. :)

[ninjanick]

I ordered one of the 2 they had in overstock

[ninjanick]

Build Specifications:

WARP11HV DC Motor mated to 5MT Transmission
Soliton1 Controller
94 - 96 CALB CA 60aH batteries
Charger (haven't decided yet, but most likely the Isolated version from EMotorwerks)
DC/DC (haven't decided yet)
LG 10.1 Tablet for battery monitoring and statistics
NRG interior (courtesy of Erik/33Machines)

[Gary Livingston]

Build Specifications:

WARP11HV DC Motor mated to 5MT Transmission
Soliton1 Controller
94 - 96 CALB CA 60aH batteries
Charger (haven't decided yet, but most likely the Isolated version from EMotorwerks)
DC/DC (haven't decided yet)
LG 10.1 Tablet for battery monitoring and statistics
NRG interior (courtesy of Erik/33Machines)

Hey Nick, welcome!
Nice to see another electric build. I almost went DC, but decided on AC. . .which was an expensive decision when I already owned all the stuff to do it in DC. lol.
Question; why CALB CA series? I mean I love these cells for a "normal car build", but the CAM series are 38% smaller and 20% lighter for the same energy. Gonna be a challenge to fit the CA's I would think?? Also, I think you will be under-powering the Soliton1 even at 10C. Even the CAM series aren't what I would call a high performance battery although they would be much better suited to a small car build like this.

CALB will be releasing the CAM25-P (power cells in a few months) 96P-2S string of these 25Ah cells would help a lot.

Why going with the 5 speed?

Looking forward to see your progress.

Gary

[ninjanick]

Hey Nick, welcome!
Nice to see another electric build. I almost went DC, but decided on AC. . .which was an expensive decision when I already owned all the stuff to do it in DC. lol.
Question; why CALB CA series? I mean I love these cells for a "normal car build", but the CAM series are 38% smaller and 20% lighter for the same energy. Gonna be a challenge to fit the CA's I would think?? Also, I think you will be under-powering the Soliton1 even at 10C. Even the CAM series aren't what I would call a high performance battery although they would be much better suited to a small car build like this.

CALB will be releasing the CAM25-P (power cells in a few months) 96P-2S string of these 25Ah cells would help a lot.

Why going with the 5 speed?

Looking forward to see your progress.

Gary

I chose the CALB CA 60aH mainly for cost. It fits my range and power requirements at only ~$7K. The CALB CAM series would be ~$13K. I'm not completely confident I will end up with prismatics as my last traction pack. I'm still researching the idea of making my own Headway or 18650/26650 traction pack. However, both these types of cells require more elaborate setups. I'm curious to see if Tesla's Gigafactory drives cost of Lithium cells down further ... possibly develop a new cell technology that I could upgrade in the future. For now the CALB CA 60aHs will "fit" both on the frame and in my budget.
Do you have any specs on the CAM25-P? Does it have a higher predicted discharge rate?
Running through some rough calculations and interpolating some of NetGain's data, I can achieve an max of ~190KW at about 10-12C. The CALB CAs should be able to handle that rate of discharge for brief moments (<10s). Cell degradation might happen a little sooner, but who knows ... maybe in 2 - 3 years I change powertrain.
As for why transmission ... it saves me time sourcing and modifying a final drive more suited to the WARP11HV. I was thinking about a PowerGlide mated to the 11HV, but cost was one thing ... modifications to get it to fit were another.
I've subscribed to your thread and I am anxious to see how your build unfolds. Right now, I'm done prepping all donor parts and am now modifying the frame to accept the DC motor as well as the custom battery boxes. Once done, I'll push the frame over to powdercoat.

[Gary Livingston]

Hey Nick,

Ya, I hear you about the cost. U gotta do what you can, man. I have some dimensions on the CAM25-P. They are suppose go give up 25C, I've heard 30C also. . . we'll see. I have a poorly supported theory that the smaller capacity prismatics give up a bit better C rate than the larger ones of the same chemistry purely due to relative conductor size. That can only help. . . including your 60Ah cells. It's true you can do 190 volts with Helwig split brushes so, 190kw with the 1000 amp soliton1. I'm a bit hesitant to think your pack will do that though. Have you considered voltage drop? Seems from the math that to hit that number, you are figuring the nominal voltage instead of a sagged level. I know you are in the warmer climate. . .which is a huge boon for discharge BTW.
One thought you may consider is a small booster pack of similar chemistry, high discharge rate cells. I built a smallish capacity booster pack for my truck with A123 32157's. They will do 60 C and are absolute brutes for punishment. These have screw terminals so are not so hard to build into a pack. Finding these with screws is tough now, but you can find the smaller 32113's with screws and these will give up 250 all day. I built an accessory battery with these cells. As a booster pack, hooked in parallel, they will put it out. . .save the CALBS and recharge when you lift your foot off the pedal. Even a 2P pack of these small cylindrical cells in parallel with your calbs would stiffen the voltage and cough up the current. I can show you some pics of what I built if you're interested.

All the best....

[ninjanick]

There isn't a lot of data I could find on the CA cells, but I would expect them to perform better than the previous SE model. Some data online seems to indicate the SE models have a voltage drop around ~20%. With a rough spreadsheet I figured in about 15% voltage drop. With the Soliton 1, I have a max input voltage of 340VDC. At full charge (~3.55V per cell at 96s1p configuration), I'd get ~340VDC. Nominal voltage would ~307VDC and with voltage sag (15%), I'd be ~260VDC. I took some test data for the WARP9 motor since I didn't find any WARP11HV data, but the armatures are similar so I figure the voltage requirement is roughly the same. I will limit the battery pack current to ~720A which should allow me to supply 1000A to the motor up to about 3500RPM, from there it tapers off to ~680A motor side at ~270VDC which should give me ~5000RPM. Max motor power should be ~188KW. This doesn't take into motor and drivetrain efficiencies, which should knock that done to ~160-170KW? With the Soliton1 current limit (battery) set to 720A, I doubt I'll be drawing that much current for very long.
That being said, I'd like to look at your booster pack! I'm curious to know how a booster pack would function. So you have a smaller capacity (same voltage) pack wired in parallel to stiffen the main traction pack. How does/would the different cells affect overall capacity? Do you need separate chargers or an elaborate BMS to switch between the 2? I was thinking of using Headway cells, but the total volume and weight savings is really outweighed by the complexity of the cell pack. 2 screws and some bus bar is about as simple as you can get.
Where can you purchase CAM25-P cells?

[Gary Livingston]

If you ask an engineer what temperature water boils at, he might ask you back, "at what pressure?" Similarly, voltage drop has everything to do with temperature of the cells. If you ran it down the track a few times, you might get close to that number but I would be surprised. 15% at 12C sounds like a stretch but hey. . warm them up see. Ive seen larger capacity CA cells tested that dropped 38% at 12C. At ambient temps of 75F I expect you may see 22 to 25% on the smaller 60Ah.
When sizing these things, battery selection has everything do with what you want from the car. If you want to drag 1/4 mile, you go for 150 to 200C rate poly with a 150 lb or something, pack. Of course you have little range. Getting great performance and range is a little trickier. Many of the larger capacity cells don't have the discharge rate. That's why I built my booster pack. Then the challenge is to keep from melting your motor. DC series wound are the kings of drag racing. . . but that 11" motor is still only maybe 15hp continuous rated. Get a good blower on it to help. It should be a pretty good combination though. . since the car is so light, you will have a hard time loading that motor heavily for very long.

As for overall capacity it is cumulative in parallel. So, built at the same voltage, if the booster pack had a capacity of say 10Ah, this would add to your 60Ah for a total capacity of 70Ah.

You don't need any additional charger. Its the same voltage. Chargers for LiFePo4 have a pretty basic CC switching to CV charge algorithm. Chargers don't stop based on energy in, but rather on the voltage level. So, it works fine. I would not use a BMS on LiFePo4. . . and you don't need one for booster pack any more than you do for a range pack.

The CAM25's aren't ready for prime time yet. . . but I'm told they are close. A few months perhaps. The Liuyan supercapacitor hybrid prismatics are suppose to be even a bit better. . . which would be a good cell for not needing a booster pack. They will do 25 to 30C rate. I'm considering these also. I do have a pretty good booster pack though, so I could live with a lower discharge range pack combo. Not decided yet.

Cheers

[Gary Livingston]

Here's a few shots of my booster pack. These are 32157's with screw studs. Also, a shot of the 32113's with screw studs I used for an accessory battery.

[ninjanick]

With a booster pack of different capacity, how would the discharge profile look like for each pack? I would assume the controller would pull power equally from each pack if the resistance were the same. With a "less saggy" booster pack, the resistance would be lower which would draw more current from the booster pack? I like the idea of a small booster pack as I can't fit 100aH CALB CAs ... not without major modifications to the frame. Have you tried the Headway 40152 cells? I was going to play with a few in 4s2p configuration for my 12VDC system.
What are the dimensions for the CAM25s? I would like to plan out my battery box mounts now prior to powder coating, but maybe I should hold off ...

[Gary Livingston]

I just type a long reply and lost it. arghhh! This one will be shorter....

The booster pack is lower resistance so, depending on capacity, it will give up a larger percentage of the current initially. When you let off, the calbs will "charge" them as they equalize voltage. So, make sure you add cooling fans if you build one.

Haven't used Headways.. . .seems there is always some weak cells in a pack. Quality control is not so great last I heard. Perhaps if you cycle tested them, and checked resistance, you could weed out any weak ones.

I will get the dims of the CAM25-P cells for you, I have it written down.

[Gary Livingston]

CAM25-PFI = 25 x 126 x 148mm

0.85kg

Not as energy dense as the "E" models. They tend to optimize for energy or power density.

[ninjanick]

Is that 148mm in length or height?

[Gary Livingston]

That is the height.

Cheers

[ninjanick]

Cleaned and painted the transmission
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7572/16257531996_d2d3b66b71_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qLC6RN)[/url]

Painted and re-assembled brake calipers
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7494/16257532186_93da047e45_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qLC6RN)

Wired in dedicated 220VAC for charger (to be purchased and installed) and welder
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7573/16282625812_0b882f6f2d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qLC6V5)[url=https://flic.kr/p/qNQHnN]

[ninjanick]

Painted all miscellaneous parts found in boxes. Used POR-15 gloss black.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7551/16257532436_7d22a8a575_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qLC6Zo)

[Speedy G]

I wonder when 818se builds will outnumber the gas engine builds... Nice! A DC build! It looks like you caught Gary thinking about batteries. I'm glad he posted all that stuff here. It sounds like I might benefit from the new CAM cells, we'll see.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I wonder when 818se builds will outnumber the gas engine builds

When EV compete in performance, cost and knowledge base.
You can build a 300hp AC system with high performance batteries, but it will cost you 20k to 40k.
You can build a 100 HP DC system with lead acid for 4K-6k
98% of motor heads are more comfortable working on ICE.

Some day these will balance out.
I started working on EV's in 1994. At that time I thought EV would be main stream in 5-10 years.
Now (20 years later) I would say that all new cars will be ev or hybrid in 5-10 years.

Who knows, in 10 years we may be building a kit car on top of a Tesla skateboard.
I'm going to start looking for donors now.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37643&d=1421302477

[Speedy G]

FYI, if you were to decide not to use a donor, I think my quote on all new parts is like USD8500 including the tranny (without the engine, or brakes). All I'm saying is don't spend close to that on the donor, because it would probably be a better idea to get the parts new. Bob, since you don't need a tranny or an engine, you might just want to get new parts. Your parts buying them new would be like 5k. Most donors run around 4k... Just sayin'.

Yeah, that skateboard... Didn't GM come up with that concept first? http://www.thecarconnection.com/tips-article/1003383_autonomy-gm-asks Looking back the skateboard concept is so obvious for EVs. FFR should build an EV skateboard kit... I wonder if there's enough traction yet.

Also, getting back to the thread. Gary there's some CAS20 cells on the CALB site. They seem to have higher energy density. Any clue how they stack up?

[Gary Livingston]

Also, getting back to the thread. Gary there's some CAS20 cells on the CALB site. They seem to have higher energy density. Any clue how they stack up?

"How they stack up" is a perfect pun. These are pouch cells. If you took apart a prismatic, this is what is inside. They parallel these to get the capacity. If you took this one apart, you would find more "children" inside it. . . just to get to 20Ah. Will based on the voltage being 3.2 it is LiFePo4. I suspect it is the same chemistry as the CAM's and CA's. The higher energy density might come from having no case. This is how the CAM got better, with an aluminum thin can instead of plastic. Continuous discharge is 3C as well, which lines up. What is almost weird (but not quite) is the charge discharge curve. This looks like a lithium polymer... RC chemistry cell curve. You will note it does not match their charge upper/lower voltage. This poly charges to 4.2 and even though it's nominal is coined at 3.7 volts, they are all but empty at this voltage. I said "not quite" wierd, because I have seen so many times the Chinese botch this by mistake or on purpose, I don't know. . but it is definitely the wrong curve for that pouch.

If I can offer one bit of advise.. . don't build your battery with pouch cells. Not that it can't be done. . but man, you have got urself one heluvan ambitious bit of work ahead of you already. When I feel overwhelmed. . . I think of your project and feel much better. :)

[Speedy G]

Glad to be your chill pill ;). K I was just wondering what those were.

[Gary Livingston]

Nice progress there Nick...:) Can't wait until I can actually start putting mine together......

[ninjanick]

Trying out some battery locations with cardboard ...

Front (radiator location) 17.3"x9"x9" [10x2 CALB CA 60aH]
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7437/16172206320_d8c9a89d80_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qD5Mvs)[/url]
Nevermind the fact that your looking at the rear of the frame

Front (original battery tray location) 17.3"x9"x9" [10x2 CALB CA 60aH]
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8610/16171958948_eaf77bd722_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qD5Mvs)
Has another 6" more and could fit another 10 or so cells. Also about 2" on each side to the LCA mount.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7281/15737135894_8b33793897_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qD4vYq)[url=https://flic.kr/p/pYCWed]

[ninjanick]

Behind the seat 13.5"x7"x9" [4x3 CALB CA 60aH]
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8678/16172206750_22826299f0_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qD5MCS)[/url]
Top clearance is a little tight at roughly 1". Will have to see how much clearance I need with the battery lid design.

Side of Motor 18"x7"x9" [4x4 CALB CA 60aH]
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8587/15739615663_2240189bc5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qD5MCS)
Have to cut engine mounts to make it fit, but has decent clearance
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7372/16359570665_d9739d566f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pYRDnR)[url=https://flic.kr/p/qVD5pc]

[ninjanick]

And that's my current plan to stuff 96 cells in the chassis. Motor and bell housing adapter should arrive in a couple weeks for final clearance measurements. Gives me some time to practice welding. My main concern are the battery locations that straddle the motor. Erik utilized a similar location and has tight clearance to the bell housing adapter screws. If I have to redo that battery box, I will either add behind the seat or in the 818 battery location.

[ninjanick]

I remember reading a post that indicated the offset between the steering wheel and drivers seat. I was fitting up the seats to locate the harness mounts on the lower frame and even with the seat pushed inwards, there is still a noticeable offset. Has anyone tried to remedy this?
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7400/16369164932_dbe00bd1f8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qWufrA)

[Ellimist]

Has anyone tried to remedy this?
Oh, I remember seeing this at least a couple times in others' threads. Hopefully others that remember more will speak up for the both of us, 'cause I was worried about this, as well, but neglected to make a note in my manual prior to forgetting!

[Frank818]

I remember reading a post that indicated the offset between the steering wheel and drivers seat. I was fitting up the seats to locate the harness mounts on the lower frame and even with the seat pushed inwards, there is still a noticeable offset. Has anyone tried to remedy this?


I think Rasmus http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12631-818Rasmus-E-Modified did something about that.

[Ellimist]

I think Rasmus http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12631-818Rasmus-E-Modified did something about that.
Ya, but seems like there was someone else, as well. At any rate, it looks like he dealt with it by centering the seat based on the steering column (i.e., closer to the center console):
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12631-818Rasmus-E-Modified&p=167544&viewfull=1#post167544

Also, this post (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12631-818Rasmus-E-Modified&p=156281&viewfull=1#post156281) shows that his steering column wasn't square with the frame, so he squared it up.

[ninjanick]

While learning to TIG weld, I started designing the battery boxes that will straddle the motor. Thoughts?

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8595/16021852493_751a20a311_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qpNby6)

[ninjanick]

Finally got some time on the project today and welded in the lap belt mounts. A little scary at first as I'm new to welding, but welding on the frame is much much harder than on the bench. I was on my back, my side, crouched in between the frame ... I even had to weld left handed which raised the difficulty quite a bit. Overall, the mounts feel solid ... welds could look a little better.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/16888721695_bac19d16c5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rJp7yP)[/url]
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8696/16702566009_d004ba4f03_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rJp7yP)
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8736/16268715433_4ac674b25c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rrX1Y2)
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7641/16701314710_f54bac4e8d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qMBqiF)[url=https://flic.kr/p/rrQAZU]

[ninjanick]

I basically tried to copy the R style mounts using 2" flat. I couldn't get to the backside (even my stuby torch head is too big) of the inner mounts since they bridged the cross tubes. I was thinking of "boxing" the top side in with another piece of flat steel. Is that what others are doing as well?
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7615/16887724411_fe3104b013_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rJj17g)

[ninjanick]

I couldn't get in the corner (most acute) either, but it's welded on 3 sides with a small fillet on the 4th (whatever I could reach). Mount feels solid ... should I try and get in there?

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8722/16266335414_7aa329ed25_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qMpdNS)

[Frank818]

Beautiful!

[ninjanick]

I started a battery design thread in another forum (http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=603346#post603346)if anyone wants to follow

[Canadian818]

Ya, but seems like there was someone else, as well. At any rate, it looks like he dealt with it by centering the seat based on the steering column (i.e., closer to the center console):
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12631-818Rasmus-E-Modified&p=167544&viewfull=1#post167544

Also, this post (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12631-818Rasmus-E-Modified&p=156281&viewfull=1#post156281) shows that his steering column wasn't square with the frame, so he squared it up.

I also did it, pics somewhere in my build thread. Just bugged me too much, so I moved the seats together. Doesn't leave any room for a centre console though.

[ninjanick]

So I'm having some issues fitting battery boxes behind the rear firewall plates.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8730/17044704869_d27ac5f7ff_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rYbyVT)[/url]

Anyone see any issues with mounting the lower rear firewall plate to the cross beam adjacent to the seats? Basically on top of the cross beam where the seal rails rest? I figure some cutting and re-bending is in order. Weaken material? Going to be a fit up nightmare?
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8724/16610678233_4114f874ff_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rYbyVT)[url=https://flic.kr/p/riQ4W2]

[RM1SepEx]

you will need to be short! Not much room for the seats as is...

[ninjanick]

you will need to be short! Not much room for the seats as is...

I'm not too tall being 5'8", but I did want some adjustability with the seats. Right now it looks like I'll be 1" away from the upper corner of the battery box with the seat moved forward. Other solutions:

1. Notch the lower rear firewall panel at the interface of the box corner. This allows room for the battery box, but still doesn't allow more seat movement.
2. Chamfer the box corner to fit it within current volume. This allows maximum seat movement, but makes the battery box look janky. Maybe not a concern since it will be hidden, but I'll know.
3. Reduce the number of cells in that location and place them elsewhere. This creates other challenges (location and space at the top) and increases overall pack resistance using more cable (poorer performance).

[STiPWRD]

I'd suggest mocking up your pedals, steering wheel, and seat and seeing how comfortable it feels with the rear firewall where you want it. This is what I did and realized the stock fuel tank and rear firewall were too far forward for a comfortable seating position. I ended up getting a Boyd tank and the 3 inches of leg room really helped.

[ninjanick]

Got the motor last weekend and finally had a chance to mate the trans.

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7697/18040722846_c88bfd7b3b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/tucqnC)

[ninjanick]

As expected I need to cut that cross bar out

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7743/17879508630_7959d0238a_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/teXa1b)[/url]
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7698/17879508820_f37729fc87_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/teXa1b)
Looks like I only need about another 1.5" or so
[url=https://flic.kr/p/twxdFi]https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7699/18067218735_2e90ef9443_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/teXa4s)image1 (https://flic.kr/p/twxdFi)

[ninjanick]

So I decided to add a piece of square tubing toward the top of the triangle to reinforce that area in preparation for cutting out the lower cross bar. I was staring at it a little today and thought about adding more supports from where the cross beam would be cut out. Basically cut the center bar out, but leave 2" stubs, then weld those stubs with square tubing at an angle to the bottom frame tube. Thoughts?

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8762/18040724066_c7767478e3_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/tucqJE)

Where the tape measure and foot pedal are shown in the above picture.

[Speedy G]

The second set of tubes sound good, but what I'm wondering is how you're going to attach the motor to the frame. From the looks of it, you could attach the face of the motor to a plate welded (steel)/attached(aluminum) to the triangle due to the placement of the motor. That would mean, the plate could give you the extra structural rigidity. The only thing is that your auxiliary belt, steering pump, etc would have to go behind it, if you're planning on using one. What I'm doing is just adding an electric power steering pump for speeds below 5mph, and I'm using no power brakes for consistency in braking, so I'm not using an auxiliary belt drive.

[ninjanick]

I'm going to make a custom bracket that fits on the commutator end and utilizes the stock isolators. It will most likely mount to the bottom tube. I could try and mount them at an angle, but that ups the complexity of the mount a little. I'm going pretty bare bones with no power steering or brakes so the only thing on the commutator shaft would be an RPM sensor.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hi Ninjanick,
Looks good so far.
I am using these mounts for my motor.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#6309k36/=xdfjio

You don't need power steering unless you put a 1000 lbs of batteries in front. About 225 tires is the widest that fit up front.
You can get buy without power brakes but I do recommend up sizing the rear calipers.
If you need to go to power brakes I would recommend a an electric vacuum pump for the power booster. I did that in my electric minivan years ago.

http://www.evalbum.com/377

Not sure why you need a speed sensor.
You could put a prox sensor on the 5th gear near the back of the transmission.

42211
You could go in through the top of the rear housing.
Bob

[ninjanick]

I am using these mounts for my motor.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#6309k36/=xdfjio


I'm looking at the isolator you linked and it's a two piece design. Does that mean you don't sandwich the pieces together? Just basically drive a bolt through and done? It's supplied with one large washer for support in case the isolator fails. There's a recessed end where the bushing sits. Is the flat washer meant to install on that end?



Not sure why you need a speed sensor.
You could put a prox sensor on the 5th gear near the back of the transmission.

42211
You could go in through the top of the rear housing.
Bob

Can you explain this a little? I'm going to add a tachometer sensor EVWest Tach Sensor ('"http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=69"). When you say prox sensor are you talking about a sensor mounted close to 5th gear to measure shaft speed?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'm looking at the isolator you linked and it's a two piece design. Does that mean you don't sandwich the pieces together? Just basically drive a bolt through and done? It's supplied with one large washer for support in case the isolator fails. There's a recessed end where the bushing sits. Is the flat washer meant to install on that end?



Here is a drawing that describes how they are used.

http://www.avproductsinc.com/center-bonded/two-piece-mounts.html

On the tach, I was unaware that the Evnetics and Manzanita Controllers needed special feedback.
Bob

[ninjanick]

Here is a drawing that describes how they are used.

http://www.avproductsinc.com/center-bonded/two-piece-mounts.html


That definitely clears it up thanks!

[ninjanick]

So got the center cross bar cut out and re-welded in some supporting legs to stiffen the center triangle.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/403/18544378881_9e9f9c4217_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ufGMLn)[/url]

Motor and trans temporarily in place to figure out what to do next
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/290/17921727903_9e4eaf7032_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ufGMLn)

Using some 2x4 to approximate the height
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/377/18542432865_2fc03d62f8_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/tiFxjF)

Slight downward tilt so I will probably raise it up a little tomorrow. I'm hoping by sliding the transmission back a little and making the commutator end flush I'll be able to lay in more batteries behind the seats.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8888/18544379471_dd5f271a78_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ufwPhn)[url=https://flic.kr/p/ufGMWx]

[ninjanick]

Another shot of the downward tilt
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/408/18537972512_820aa2d1d2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uf8XnJ)[/url]

Battery box location current taped in place, but definitely room to stack another box on top if need be. I think that's going to bias the rear too much though.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/320/17919709304_e4db3f75f4_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uf8XnJ)

Gas tank battery location mockup. This area is severely limited by the trapazoid shape the rear firewall makes. I'm hoping by raising the motor up a little, I can extend the box all the way through or at minimum place batteries in from of the motor. Perhaps it's time to revisit placing batteries along the center tunnel?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8892/17921726983_3c7b4fab47_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/tivcgf)[url=https://flic.kr/p/tiFx3P]

[Frank818]

Nice redesign and welding.

Are you going to fit one battery pack on the right side of the "gas tank" location? Or you are short one cardboard box to mock-up the left side battery pack?

[flynntuna]

Great thread. One safety concern though, those concrete blocks shouldn't be laying on their sides. They aren't designed to hold much weight that way. Even though there's not that much weight , it's better to be safe than sorry.:)

[ninjanick]

Great thread. One safety concern though, those concrete blocks shouldn't be laying on their sides. They aren't designed to hold much weight that way. Even though there's not that much weight , it's better to be safe than sorry.:)

Gotcha ... I'll flip them around this weekend.

[ninjanick]

Nice redesign and welding.

Are you going to fit one battery pack on the right side of the "gas tank" location? Or you are short one cardboard box to mock-up the left side battery pack?

Ran out of cardboard. I've got too many different configurations floating around. There should be 2 boxes to each side of the motor. The plan is to have another 2 behind the seats. With the motor raised up more, I believe I can squeeze in another 8 batteries. That would alleviate the space requirement needed in front of the front firewall.

[ninjanick]

Here is a drawing that describes how they are used.

http://www.avproductsinc.com/center-bonded/two-piece-mounts.html



Looking over the design, the static weight is about right, but it also relies on nearly 0.5" thick substrate to mount. How thick is your mounting plate and do you have a picture/idea of what it will look like? I'm debating to extend the mount to the angled square tubing I just welded or go straight down to the bottom square tube.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Looking over the design, the static weight is about right, but it also relies on nearly 0.5" thick substrate to mount. How thick is your mounting plate and do you have a picture/idea of what it will look like? I'm debating to extend the mount to the angled square tubing I just welded or go straight down to the bottom square tube.

Hi Nick
I'm not able to help. My electric 818 is on hold until I get the gas one sorted out. (never ending)
My motor mount design will be totally different.
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42571&d=1433906407

[ninjanick]

Finally had some time to spend on the motor mount today. I basically traced out what I thought it would/should look like and manually cut it from 0.250" plate steel. Not complete, but it's coming along. This piece will bolt to the commutator end and there will be 3 mounting locations. I intend to weld on some gussets and adapters at right angles to bolt the isolators to the frame. I was playing around with some ideas of cutting away some of the inside to save a little weight. Not exactly sure how much I should cut away ... any suggestions?

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3689/18996945322_8c010ca7be_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uWGj13)

[Flamshackle]

Hi Nick
I'm not able to help. My electric 818 is on hold until I get the gas one sorted out. (never ending)
My motor mount design will be totally different.
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42571&d=1433906407

Man this is an exciting build. Love this thread.

What electric motor is this? Out of a tesla? Now that would be awesome

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Man this is an exciting build. Love this thread.

What electric motor is this? Out of a tesla? Now that would be awesome

It is a Siemens Motor and Borg Warner Gearbox out of a Ford Transit Connect.
http://www.plugincars.com/ford-transit-connect-electric

[ninjanick]

Got some work done this weekend. Welded in some mounts and fit up a strut to replace a section of frame I cut out to allow room for the front battery box.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/277/19890105649_a039021954_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wiBZs2)

[ninjanick]

Batteries and BMS arrived!!! 100 CALB CA 60aH cells all stable around 3.26V.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3728/19454151694_8429cb191b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vD6Bww)

[ninjanick]

Welded in the motor mounts to the frame. Carpet was used as I was laying flat on my stomach trying to weld those square tubes in place. I used square tubing mainly so I can access the nut on the bottom without having to further cut the frame.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/386/19454151474_fd149361bb_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vD6BsJ)[/url]

Motor mount "tacked" into place. The gap is there because the isolators take up about 0.5" at all 3 locations. One isolator is in the bottom right of the picture. Need to finish welding that piece up and send it off to powdercoat. Apologies for the underexposure. Was trying to clean up and didn't pay attention to the photo till afterwards.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/540/19888788540_ce974568d9_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vD6BsJ)[url=https://flic.kr/p/wiveVf]

[ninjanick]

I also de-mated the motor from the transmission to fit up the flywheel to the coupler ...

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/426/19455822273_457ebd0181_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vDfb8B)[/url]

And ... interference! :mad: Talked to Michael over at EVWest and he suggested I countersink the adapter plate to gain some clearance. Going to attempt this on my drill press ... nice a slow ....

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3803/19890105989_c851377386_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vDfb8B)[url=https://flic.kr/p/wiBZxT]

[Frank818]

Oh I hate interferences! I understand your frustration, I get that almost every time I fit a part! So limited...

[ninjanick]

Frame is now at Powdercoaters ... 2 weeks and hopefully a nice gloss black! Trying to get to rolling chassis by summer's end.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/327/20001039359_acaab41906_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wtqybc)

[rtz]

Who knows, in 10 years we may be building a kit car on top of a Tesla skateboard.
I'm going to start looking for donors now.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37643&d=1421302477


Tesla built that motor/inverter right. Throttle pedal wired right into it. Stand alone setup now available. Bump this video up to 44:10 to see it powered up and under control:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xUwHeDRmac

[ninjanick]

Back from powdercoat!
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5689/20547761232_7d99ee73ea_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xiJDxo)[/url]
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5668/20368672148_dc04c35574_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xiJDxo)

It was surprisingly a lot heavier than I expected. Powdercoat looks thick ... bad for weight. :rolleyes:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5711/20556685395_7a9bbb4cdc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/x2ULAy)[url=https://flic.kr/p/xjwoog]

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Back from powdercoat!

It was surprisingly a lot heavier than I expected. Powdercoat looks thick ... bad for weight. :rolleyes:


Now would be a good time to check the clearance of every hole on the frame.
During my build, I had to drill out the powder coat on every hole.
I'm glad the suspension holes don't have any play. FFR does a very good job on hole dimensions.
Bob

[07FIREBLADE]

Only if they could get the body that tight with their dimensions.

[Pearldrummer7]

Now would be a good time to check the clearance of every hole on the frame.
During my build, I had to drill out the powder coat on every hole.
I'm glad the suspension holes don't have any play. FFR does a very good job on hole dimensions.
Bob


Only if they could get the body that tight with their dimensions.

Agreed on both points^


Motor looks awesome. This is an exciting build.

[Speedy G]

Awesome! I can't wait to see your progress from here on out.

[ninjanick]

Worked on the front firewall today ... I thought I bought enough Cleco's but I had to start "reusing" some to support all the panels.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5728/20620875682_24788b6851_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xqcnVm)[/url]

Had a problem with the front driver side panel. I aligned the middle panels with the through hole pattern from the pedal box mount, but I have a 0.25" gap between the aluminum panels.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/649/20007424924_fc39a968f7_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xqcnVm)

Acceptable and just fill with silicon?

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/576/20441972158_09c3a340e5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wtZho9)[url=https://flic.kr/p/x9os8Q]

On the subject of Silicon, there seems to be a variety of types/uses. Which is preferred Window and Door, Gasket sealant?

[RM1SepEx]

I used clear and black 100% silicone, 50 year stuff. Drill out a panel and try to replace it, this stuff really holds well

[Frank818]

I had to fill with silicone in many places. I used black all the way cuz that's what I had, but I am painting or wrapping or glueing sound deadening on the panels so the color will not be seen anyway.

[ninjanick]

I've been reading about the Upper Control arm and how one of the studs needs to be cut down, but the criteria to determine if this is needed conflicts with what I have in my kit. From what I read, if the hex struts are not equal that means you have to cut one of the studs. I also read that if the ball joint is flat (not angled) than you don't have to cut. I have different length hex struts and I have a ball joint which is flat. Do I need to cut?

I also realize that I fit it up on the wrong side. Supposed to be long hex strut towards the front with the shorter one in the rear correct?
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/638/20945304869_a2049043c8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xUSaq2)[/url]

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/727/20945304689_f2c1b5512b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xUSaq2)[url=https://flic.kr/p/xUSamV]

Also install with grease fittings up or down?

[Pearldrummer7]

I've been reading about the Upper Control arm and how one of the studs needs to be cut down, but the criteria to determine if this is needed conflicts with what I have in my kit. From what I read, if the hex struts are not equal that means you have to cut one of the studs. I also read that if the ball joint is flat (not angled) than you don't have to cut. I have different length hex struts and I have a ball joint which is flat. Do I need to cut?

I also realize that I fit it up on the wrong side. Supposed to be long hex strut towards the front with the shorter one in the rear correct?
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/638/20945304869_a2049043c8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xUSaq2)[/url]

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/727/20945304689_f2c1b5512b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xUSaq2)[url=https://flic.kr/p/xUSamV]

Also install with grease fittings up or down?

I installed with grease fittings up, for access reasons. I don't think it technically matters either way.

[Mechie3]

Cutting was only for the angled versions. As we flipped left to right we also had to flip the arm front/back so that the angle was in the right direction. This meant that the long/short arms were swapped and there wasn't enough adjustment to fix it without cutting. You should not have to cut.

[ninjanick]

I'm able to get one side of the front upper ball joint all the way flush, but not the other ...
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/645/20990489450_96024d87ae_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xYRKdw)[/url]

Anyone have any tricks to get this to sit flush? I was using a huge crescent wrench in combination with a vise. I must have tried to turn that last one down for an hour and it would not budge. Maybe I lost strength turning to first one? I tried applying a little heat, but it just seems like it won't go any further.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/633/20990489570_994c57fb24_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xYRKdw)[url=https://flic.kr/p/xYRKfA]

[ninjanick]

On the subject of the front suspension, I don't have many of the donor hardware as mine came on a pallet. An M14 screw fits well here, but the holes don't align with the lower control arm bushing mount.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/590/20991795409_06eb186e51_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xYYrr4)[/url]

I can wiggle in an M12, but seems a little odd that the mount holes don't line up with the snowman holes. If I widen the busing mount hole open to allow an M14 would that be the work around? I figure opening the hole for an M14 or wiggling in an M12 should be about the same as there will be a gap one way or another.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/706/21178641685_096e83185e_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xYYrr4)[url=https://flic.kr/p/ygu5jz]

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey Ninjanick,
I just changed my upper ball joints.
This time I bought the correct tool. It made it much easier.
Bob

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pof-124-10001

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pof-124-10001

[Bob_n_Cincy]

On the subject of the front suspension, I don't have many of the donor hardware as mine came on a pallet. An M14 screw fits well here, but the holes don't align with the lower control arm bushing mount.

I can wiggle in an M12, but seems a little odd that the mount holes don't line up with the snowman holes. If I widen the busing mount hole open to allow an M14 would that be the work around? I figure opening the hole for an M14 or wiggling in an M12 should be about the same as there will be a gap one way or another.


Ninjanick,
The squggle in the bushing goes down. Loosen the big nut and flip it over.
45113

I know a lot of the early kits had to enlarge hole to fit the M14.
I think they have fixed that issue.
Bob

[ninjanick]

Thanks for the tips Bob!!! A socket would would hopefully work with the impact, but that ball joint is a tight fit!! I will reverse the bushing mount as well. I didn't even realize there was an orientation to that bushing.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Thanks for the tips Bob!!! A socket would would hopefully work with the impact, but that ball joint is a tight fit!! I will reverse the bushing mount as well. I didn't even realize there was an orientation to that bushing.
My cheap impact wouldn't do it. My 36" breaker bar did the trick.

[ninjanick]

Tried to get the motor and transmission together to setup the rear suspension installation, however I ran into a little problem. Got the fork in fine ...

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5629/20586285983_0692813d49_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xn96Be)[/url]

At the advice of other members and Subaru enthusiasts I added a Monoloc, but the Release Bearing doesn't quite seem to fit. I ordered a replacement for a 2006 WRX 5MT. I verified the part I ordered and it is correct.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/661/21020601109_2effc38ea4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xn96Be)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5646/20584720104_1769534f76_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/y2w5n4)

Looking through a 2006 WRX manual under Section 5 (Transmission) sub section 07 (Clutch System) page CL4, my transmission doesn't quite look like that. In particular I don't have the Lever Springs and my pivot is different.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5665/20586435033_5d7804dd74_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xn158j)

Looking another page down (CL5), I see something very similar, but it's listed as "STI Model". Now I can't tell the difference between the 2 transmissions just by looking, but when I purchased the parts from Wayne, he did say this was an 06 WRX. In any case, can someone confirm that I should purchase a Release Bearing for an 06 STI?

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/728/21197203342_8bf604c0f0_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xn9RV4)[url=https://flic.kr/p/yi8d49]

[JeromeS13]

The throwout bearing is backwards. The tabs face the rear and the pivot arm slides into those tabs...

[ninjanick]

Thanks JeromeS13! Any particular reason my trans setup looks a lot like the manuals STi configuration?

[JeromeS13]

Thanks JeromeS13! Any particular reason my trans setup looks a lot like the manuals STi configuration?

There are several versions of the 5 speed. Some have "push" style clutches, others have "pull" style. Your transmission appears to be a "pull" style. So if you bought a clutch/throwout bearing for a 2006 WRX (push style), it's probably not going to lock onto the pressure plate. Your transmission appears to be from an 02-05 WRX.

[ninjanick]

Thinking that I have the wrong Release Bearing, I went to OpposedForces.com and there's only one option for release bearing. When I go to fastwrx.com, the bearing I have looks very similar to the 02-05 WRX Throwout Bearing.

http://www.fastwrx.com/collections/oem-clutch-drivetrain/products/02-05-wrx-2-0-throwout-bearing

It seems the 05-16 STI version will actually fit inside the Monoloc.

http://www.fastwrx.com/collections/oem-clutch-drivetrain/products/2004-wrx-sti

[ninjanick]

So after more research and reading up on the varying different 5MT configurations. I believe I've nailed down the correct part to Exedy PN BGR601? Sound about right?

[Mechie3]

Thats definitely a pull style trans like Jerome said with a.push style bearing.

[ninjanick]

Having a real hard time mating the motor to the trans. Every time I put them together something interferes. After some careful grease markings, I have determined that the Pressure Plate is hitting the fork. I measured the distance from the adapter plate to the farthest point on the Pressure Plate and I get ~2.3". Anyone have any measurements on their engine? I'm thinking the adapter plate needs to be thicker to gain some distance. Michael over at EVWest states the plate was measured off a 2.5L. Any possible differences which could cause interference?

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5800/21735126932_9ccbefa148_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/z7EcZN)[/url]

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/664/21125713003_ff1e2d8663_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/z7EcZN)

I made sure the Flywheel is as close to the adapter plate as possible. I'm measuring around 0.050" using a long skinny screw driver as a gauge. Hard to see from the picture, but the flywheel has a protrusion on the backside. Screwdriver is wedged between the plate and the flywheel protrusion.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5809/21746818765_58d2a06514_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ybNNt6)[url=https://flic.kr/p/z8G8z8]

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Nick
Here is a picture that shows how deep the flywheel teeth sit in the block.
45998
Are you using a Clutch alignment tool.
It is very difficult to get the disk aligned without one.
If the clutch is even off 1/32", The trans shaft wont drop into the pilot bearing.
Leaving you with about 1/2" to go

You gave us the 2.3" measurement of the clutch. How deep is the throw out bearing in the transmission?

Try putting it together without the clutch arm and throw out bearing installed. That will tell you what the problem is.
Bob

[ninjanick]

Flywheel protrudes from the face of the adapter plate ~0.2"

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/649/21560974479_db078d5b6f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/yRgCxi)[/url]

Base of Throw Out Bearing to face of bell housing is ~2.6"

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5766/21757210041_1d48f530c9_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/yRgCxi)

Highest part of fork to face of bell housing is ~2.15"

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5807/21721738846_db24928c45_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/z9Box4)[url=https://flic.kr/p/z6tAbJ]

I used a plastic alignment tool when I installed the clutch disc. When I get the 2 parts close together, I can manually spin the flywheel and feel it hit the fork.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

So, Are you saying the problem is the pivot arm casting is hitting the clutch housing?

[ninjanick]

Yes. Sorry I called it a fork, but yes the pivot arm casting is hitting the Pressure Plate. I verified the Pressure Plate is fully seated to the flywheel just now ... frustrating to say the least!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Jack
Here are a couple of pictured where the pressure plate housing look different thickness.

All three of my engines are push style clutches. So I can't rake a measurement for you.
Bob

45999 46000

[ninjanick]

So you think I just need a lower profile pressure plate? What clutch is that?

[ninjanick]

Couldn't really work on the rears too much, but got the fronts installed this weekend.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5806/21587810389_c8a2b21d77_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/yTDaVp)[/url]
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5636/21762994762_350f13044b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/yTDaVp)
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/702/21748568036_300ee32c1b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/za838C)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5795/21586681020_d9f602c479_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/z8R6yY)[url=https://flic.kr/p/yTxocw]

[ninjanick]

Tried to step into the pedal box installation, however the pedal box doesn't seem to fit quite right with the frame. Pushing the pedal box as far forward as possible I still can't get the holes to align with the frame.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/644/21153652203_75fe640532_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/yegZPr)[/url]

Hard to see from this picture (too dark), but the pedal box plate doesn't sit flush with the frame. There's about 1/8" maybe a little more gap at the top. I ground down an edge that was interfering and I could get a little closer, but the box shape doesn't seem to conform well with the provided space in the frame. Should there be spacers here?

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/669/21586839228_41e7d02551_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/yegZPr)[url=https://flic.kr/p/yTycef]

[Bob_n_Cincy]

So you think I just need a lower profile pressure plate? What clutch is that?
Nick
The picture below shows a critical distance.
The mounting surface for the flywheel should be 0.99" deep in the adapter.
See picture below.
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=46034&d=1443415197

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Nick
Take a look at this post.
Bob
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?19034-Help-I-need-an-engine-to-flywheel-measurement!!!!&p=213159&viewfull=1#post213159

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Nick,
Attached is a picture of Eric's batteries. I think there is more room behind the original firewall for batteries, if the driver doesn't need the leg room.
Bob
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=46163&d=1443683519

[ninjanick]

My proposed configuration should be similar to Erik's, but stuffing in close to 100 cells is somewhat of a challenge. Anyone have any thoughts on my pedal box fitment issue?

[ninjanick]

So I wasn't too fond of taping or gluing the turn signal cancel piece to enable that functionality with the NRG hub I purchased.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5810/22665640233_7e6d2bb48c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/AwTkbz)[/url]

So I designed a simple part that can be 3D printed. BTW, anyone know what the 3 relief cuts in the hub are for?
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/617/23266650386_d21c5b90f2_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/AwTkbz)

The fit is tight and it definitely feels like it won't come loose. I had to knock it in with a mallet to seat it on the NRG hub. Not too bad of a fit, but I did have to space it out a little to get the right depth to disengage the turn signal. This photo is with the adapter all the way down. I actually need another 0.175" length which I've updated the design to accommodate for in case I need to print another one.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/693/22924849629_e6818777c3_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/BrZEyA)

You can see the gap in this picture ... along with some tool marks to prop it up. It is a tight fit after all. The interference fit alone is very tight so I feel it doesn't need anything more. Any suggestions?
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5798/22665638303_980ea2d44d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/AVMR76)[url=https://flic.kr/p/AwTjBi]

[Hindsight]

Looks great! What kind of 3D printer did you use? My brother in law has the Dremel (I think that's what it is) and while it's ok for prototyping, I wouldn't use it for actual final pieces as the quality just isn't there. That piece you made looks really nice.

[Canadian818]

Just catching up on your thread. Is it possible that you have the wrong clutch? If you bought it thinking it was for 06 it might not work. Just a thought.

[Pearldrummer7]

Wow, that signal cancel spacer you printed is really nice. I love 3D printers for little things like this.

[wleehendrick]

So I wasn't too fond of taping or gluing the turn signal cancel piece to enable that functionality with the NRG hub I purchased.

So I designed a simple part that can be 3D printed.

Very nice... I have the same hub and would like to do the same. Would you mind sharing a STEP or IGES file I can grow?

[ninjanick]

Looks great! What kind of 3D printer did you use? My brother in law has the Dremel (I think that's what it is) and while it's ok for prototyping, I wouldn't use it for actual final pieces as the quality just isn't there. That piece you made looks really nice.

I used a Dimension printer mainly because I had access to one for this quick print. I do have a Taz at home that produces less quality prints, but it was used and it prints other things with reasonable accuracy and tolerance.

[ninjanick]

Very nice... I have the same hub and would like to do the same. Would you mind sharing a STEP or IGES file I can grow?

Not sure where to host it, but maybe I can throw it up on Thingiverse?

[ninjanick]

I published the adapter on Thingiverse http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1185548

[wleehendrick]

I published the adapter on Thingiverse http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1185548

Awesome... Thanks!

[ninjanick]

Finally got the motor and transmission together
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1544/24985475886_527d2f96c8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/E4T6v1)[/url]

Took some wiggling and wrestling, but finally got it in place
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1583/24381185604_b703747c9d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/E4T6v1)

Looking good on clearances to proposed battery location
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1504/24893763142_160ae7af69_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/D9tX43)[url=https://flic.kr/p/DVM3uN]

[Speedy G]

Looking awesome. What color is the car going to be?

[ninjanick]

That's an ongoing battle with my daughter. She wants pink ... "settled" for pink control arms. I'm pushing for matte grey body.

[ninjanick]

Spent a little time mocking up battery boxes. Been spending most of my time practicing corner welds with Aluminum. Mock up pack for behind the seats:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1652/25680028431_0d1a4ec2b8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/F8fRLT)[/url]

With the sides and bottom "loosely" fit up
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1519/25148523963_91f810e447_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/F8fRLT)

Side view
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1616/25144657274_e30c2c1943_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EjhL1K)[url=https://flic.kr/p/EiWWzG]

I think I'm ready to start tacking!!

[ninjanick]

Wasn't sure where to mount the amplifier, but thought this would be a good location

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1561/25144657404_460d3d2b2f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EiWWBW)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Spent a little time mocking up battery boxes. Been spending most of my time practicing corner welds with Aluminum. Mock up pack for behind the seats:

With the sides and bottom "loosely" fit up I think I'm ready to start tacking!!

Ninjajack,
When I was doing a lot of battery systems using LFP lithium ion batteries back in 08-12. I would clamp the batteries between to plates to prevent the cells from expanding if you charge them a little to high.
Do they not do that any more?
I seen sets of batteries get stuck in enclosures from expansion.
Bob

PS Make sure you use fully insulated tool to connect up all the bus bars.

[ninjanick]

I haven't seen any data on expansion, but I made sure to account for a little play on all sides. It was mainly there to add an insulative layer between housing and batteries. I planned to size the insulative material thickness for a tight fit.

[ninjanick]

Got one battery box welded up (upside down in picture)
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1543/25898474566_60a71303c2_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Fsyscy)[/url]

This is where it goes (behind the seat)
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1650/25295672233_54127b9681_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Fsyscy)

Test fit the batteries when I was tacking it together and there's plenty of space in one axis, but a little tight in the other. Hopefully, the batteries don't swell up and get stuck.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1688/25924375855_66b3466720_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ExhW4T)
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1619/25623804770_e91d42ca54_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FuRcKv)[url=https://flic.kr/p/F3hGrq]

[ninjanick]

Still learning TIG welding, but most of my passes were fairly decent. I'm still getting cratering when I stop my bead :confused:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1531/25829426811_ac0abcb80a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FmsyH2)

[ninjanick]

3 battery boxes welded up ... 2 more to go!
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1466/26158084853_d24b0beec2_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FRv2hZ)[/url]

A look at the boxes in the motor area
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1550/26158085243_5578a492a1_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FRv2hZ)[url=https://flic.kr/p/FRv2pH]

[Rasmus]

Loving the build Nick.

On your cratering from TIG at the stop of a bead...

From the Miller Welders website (https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/article-library/ten-common-tig-problems-a-visual-guide):

Craters typically occur at the end of the weld, and they often lead to cracking. Causes include instantly reducing the welding power (which causes the puddle to cool too quickly) and removing the filler rod too quickly at the end of the weld. You can easily fix crater cracking issues by continuing to feed filler rod while slowly reducing current at the end of a weld. Note that some TIG welders feature a “crater control” function that automatically reduces the current at the end of a weld.

So don't just turn off the arc as the end, ramp down slow on the pedal while still daubing filler rod into the puddle. Don't move the torch, just ramp down at your finish spot. Hover over the end puddle after the arc is out and let the gas flow for a few seconds more before moving the torch away. I'd hate to see your pretty boxes split open from a crack that started in one of your pits.

[ninjanick]

Cut some pieces to mock up installation of the ignition module. Wire harness will most likely route around towards the frame. I plan to mount relays on the angle iron holding the back side of the amp. Hopefully it's a nice a tidy harness installation.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7401/26803209575_144deef15d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GQvsp2)

[ninjanick]

Thanks for the tips! The pedal I have (Tig 200 from Eastwood) isn't the best and it's hard to control towards the upper end of the stroke. It would have been nice if the pedal was a rocking one like on the Millers and some of the higher end welders.

[Hindsight]

I have the same welder and slowly letting off the pedal at the end works great. Can also help to move the torch in tiny circles around the last puddle as you let off the pedal slowly.

[Mechie3]

I have the TIG 200 as well. I've found that when letting off it's more of an on off switch than a dimmer unfortunately.

[ninjanick]

Trying to figure out the best way of mounting the controller and charger. I plan to mount them on the rear 1.5" square tubing where the firewall installs. The charger and controller weight about 25lbs. each. I'm going to try to pick up at minimum 2 and possibly 3 mounting locations on the actual frame, but I'm trying to figure out the best attachment method. I don't want to buckle the square tubing, so I'm thinking of drilling a slightly larger hole on one side for a spacer to be installed. Should allow me to properly torque the hardware without risk of buckling the tube. I don't trust rivnuts ... or should I?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Trying to figure out the best way of mounting the controller and charger. I plan to mount them on the rear 1.5" square tubing where the firewall installs. The charger and controller weight about 25lbs. each. I'm going to try to pick up at minimum 2 and possibly 3 mounting locations on the actual frame, but I'm trying to figure out the best attachment method. I don't want to buckle the square tubing, so I'm thinking of drilling a slightly larger hole on one side for a spacer to be installed. Should allow me to properly torque the hardware without risk of buckling the tube. I don't trust rivnuts ... or should I?

I used a 1/4 revnuts all over (maybe 50). Probably a dozen 5/16 -18 revnuts to mount heavier stuff. I trust them. Get a good tool.
I used zero 3/16 pop rivets and only used 1/8" pop rivets in thin aluminum panels.
Bob

[ninjanick]

I used a 1/4 revnuts all over (maybe 50). Probably a dozen 5/16 -18 revnuts to mount heavier stuff. I trust them. Get a good tool.
I used zero 3/16 pop rivets and only used 1/8" pop rivets in thin aluminum panels.
Bob

What material (rivnut) did you use? I'm guessing steel for strength? Would it be better to try and pick up as many locations on the frame as possible or mount box to plate, then mount plate to frame?

Would you recommend the same method for something heavier like the battery boxes? My heaviest box is 105lbs. worth of batteries.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

What material (rivnut) did you use? I'm guessing steel for strength? Would it be better to try and pick up as many locations on the frame as possible or mount box to plate, then mount plate to frame?

Would you recommend the same method for something heavier like the battery boxes? My heaviest box is 105lbs. worth of batteries.

ALL yellow cadmium plated steel revnuts.
For something <5 lbs (over flow tank, hose support, electronics box) I would use 2 to 4 1/4-20 rev nuts.
I used 1/4 revnuts to mount all my bode panels to the frame.


For something 5 to 25 lbs (Radiator, small ATV battery, accusump) I would use 2 to 4 5/16-18 revnuts.

For 100 lbs battery boxes, I would weld in 1/8" x 1.5" x 1.5"angle iron frame and have a strap holding them in that was strong enough to prevent batteries form coming out in case of a roll over or collision.

Just a note from personal experience. use a insulation layer (GPO3 fiberglass) between the cells and any metal surface.
Bob

[ninjanick]

Started work on the rear aluminum pieces to mount the controller and charger.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7286/27271314791_a74b4933ec_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HxSBLB)[/url]
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7670/27244154302_664a304e9d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HxSBLB)

Zilla 1KHV and Hairball mock up on the passenger side rear panel. Would have liked a Soliton, but couldn't find one.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7268/27271315241_7065c64299_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HvtpUj)[url=https://flic.kr/p/HxSBUn]

[ninjanick]

Attempted to weld in some gussets on the rear battery box. Had to since the bottom extends about an inch out due to a battery configuration change I made post frame powdercoating. I ended up sinking in too much heat and the side buckled. Luckily I still have room to fit all the cells in. Just doesn't look great :(

https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7468/27244153202_1d3cda4742_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Hvtpzm)

[Frank818]

I like those brown gears made of paper in your trans. :)

OEM lower trailing arms?

[ninjanick]

OEM lower trailing arms. The lateral links were bent when I got them so I had to replace them. Pink was the color my daughter chose ...

[ninjanick]

Trying to come up with a mount for the charger in this location
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7670/27244154302_664a304e9d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HvtpUj)[/url]

Charger doesn't come with any mounting features and vendor indicated that they use a strap. I sent out their drawing for quote and the cheapest I got was $250 for qty. 1 :eek:.
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7427/27432585646_d6d71bc99d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HvtpUj)
https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7321/26859601503_2f36faa238_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/HN8aYA)[url=https://flic.kr/p/GVutKD]

It's a lot for just a single piece and it only constrains in 2 axis. I was thinking, maybe there was a better way to do this with angle iron (aluminum) welded to the plate with long threaded rod and a flat brace on top. Tighten it all down and pseudo-strap. Just doesn't look as simplistic as their design. Any suggestions or thoughts?

[UnhipPopano]

If you can take the charger apart, then you can bolt the charger's base to the car. Then put the charger parts back on the base.

[ninjanick]

If you can take the charger apart, then you can bolt the charger's base to the car. Then put the charger parts back on the base.

That would be a good solution, but the vendor has a 3 year warranty that would be voided if I drilled holes and re-assembled the housing.

[UnhipPopano]

Per ITIL, Value = Utility + Warranty. This is proved true by arraigning the equation to Warranty = Value - Utility.

[WRXForward]

That electric motor looks so cool. And space efficient.

[ninjanick]

Spent some time today mounting the main contactor, controller and DC/DC converter.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7350/27002030163_28aed8db15_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/H95sQc)[/url]

Close up ... a little worried about the DC/DC as I'm using existing mounting locations on the brick and they are 4x M4 screws. It's fairly light weight so probably still ok ...
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7410/27002029403_4ee8323d40_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/H95sQc)

Little tight to the frame, but shouldn't cause any problems
https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7416/27002028813_3372d0f8a9_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/H95sB6)

Tried to make enough room to get access to the cooling ports
https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7125/27002028093_9da8a7340d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/H95sqV)[url=https://flic.kr/p/H95sdv]

[ninjanick]

Mounted the main contactor close to the controller so I can use a copper bar in an attempt to minimize overall resistance. That took me 3 tries as I had to bend it using a mallet and a vise. Overall not too bad bending by "hand".
https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7292/27002027103_587dfae1a1_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/H95rVr)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Mounted the main contactor close to the controller so I can use a copper bar in an attempt to minimize overall resistance. That took me 3 tries as I had to bend it using a mallet and a vise. Overall not too bad bending by "hand".


Hey Nick,
Are you planning putting a sealed cover on all of that.?
Bob

[ninjanick]

I plan to put a block off plate above it and mount the fan/filter for the motor. Would hate to have water get on the electronics.

[ninjanick]

Started the 12V wiring this weekend and have successfully figured out the pin out for the headlights:

Pins 8 and 13 (Green/Red) control low beam
Pin 7 (Red/Green) control high beam
Pin 16 (Black) ground reference

I was also able to determine the turn signal wiring:

Pin 3 (Black/Yellow) is the high side (12V)
Pin 1 (Black/Green) is the left turn signal
Pin 2 (Green/Black) is the right turn signal

I'm struggling with the pin out for the Hazard switch. Anyone know what that is? I tried every combination I can think of for the wiring of the 3 plugs beneath the steering column.

[ticopow]

Can you just connect the switch to both pin 1 and 2? Granted I don't know the exact setup or all that much about any of these cars, but that would make sense to me. Would that work?

[ninjanick]

That's the plan, but I don't know which pins/wires connect to the hazard switch on top of the steering column. I can see wire colors inside the housing, but they don't match the wire colors on the harness that connects to the connectors below the steering column. I can wire in an aftermarket switch, but would like to use the OEM hazard switch.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

That's the plan, but I don't know which pins/wires connect to the hazard switch on top of the steering column. I can see wire colors inside the housing, but they don't match the wire colors on the harness that connects to the connectors below the steering column. I can wire in an aftermarket switch, but would like to use the OEM hazard switch.
Nick
I don't know if this will help. Do you know the year and model of you harness.
this is my 04FXT schematic.

56689

[STiPWRD]

Here are a few more diagrams for the 02, 04, and 06 imprezas, they're all a bit different.
566915669256693

On my 02 harness, the hazard switch connects to an intermediate connector under the dash, not the steering column.

[ninjanick]

Did a bit more probing and found (by taking apart the switch) that it's actually an SPDT switch. Orange is the common. Black/Red and White/Red are the switched leads.

[ninjanick]

Working on the brake switch and found that it's 2 independent switches that open or short opposite of each other. Anyone know how the brake light switch is wired to confirm?

[STiPWRD]

Working on the brake switch and found that it's 2 independent switches that open or short opposite of each other. Anyone know how the brake light switch is wired to confirm?
What year Impreza is your harness from? That may influence the answer. And do you have a wiring diagram? If not, I can send you one of the ones I have. On mine, which is 02-03, I believe the brake light will show if you ground the e-brake switch. I just dieted that wire so the light would never turn on.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

One 2 pole switch is for the brake lights, Cruise control and abs. MY06
Bob

Edit: corrected

[ehansen007]

Looking good Nick! Is the pass seat going to fit okay with that battery box? I imagine so but had to ask. Also is that the STi tranny?

[ninjanick]

Both seats should fit ok with the battery boxes. I most likely will not be able to use the stock firewall aluminum panels without some minor modifications.

[ninjanick]

Wiring definitely underway, but taking a little more time than expected. Not too bad and maybe I'm overly cautious wiring each sub-system at a time. In either case, everything to the fuse box is pretty much wired. Just need to route it to the end devices. There is still a lot of work on the controller and BMS side, but I wanted to get it roughly in place to start battery/ballast placement.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8751/28221929584_db406d0e4b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JZSLqQ)[/url]

Wired up the horn using a spring I had laying around. Works decently ...
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8244/28221929704_1ecc22e78a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JZSLqQ)

Tried to make the motor jumper out of 2/0 and some connectors that are 2/0, but couldn't manage to get all the copper in the connector. Going to try a size up (connector), but if anyone has any tips or tricks. It looks like it will just barely fit, but when I tried to insert the cable ... there are some strands that didn't make it.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8098/28221929224_a6804021f4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JZSLsU)[url=https://flic.kr/p/JZSLjC]

[ninjanick]

Got the BMS and charger mounted

https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8698/28221928644_f8f3580d4f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JZSL9C)[/url]

Mount for the charger isn't aesthetically pleasing, but will probably change that out for something else later. For now this will do.

https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8735/28221928154_47f8d05dd1_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JZSL9C)

View from the top ish

https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8676/28221927854_4f61c957cb_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JZSL1b)

Pretty decent clearance all the way around

https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8719/28734493042_1c716fa0c0_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JZSKV1)[url=https://flic.kr/p/KMaMFQ]

[ninjanick]

About 1" clearance to the battery lid. The gusset weld was a repair job since I burned through that section ... :(

https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8517/28221927034_3649bd43d4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JZSKES)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Tried to make the motor jumper out of 2/0 and some connectors that are 2/0, but couldn't manage to get all the copper in the connector. Going to try a size up (connector), but if anyone has any tips or tricks. It looks like it will just barely fit, but when I tried to insert the cable ... there are some strands that didn't make it.

Nick
TnB makes some connectors that have a bell flare on the end.
57260

What BMS system are you using?
I've designed 3 systems during my career.
Bob

[ninjanick]

I'm using an Orion BMS. Thanks for the tip on the TnB connector ... that looks like it would do the trick!

[ninjanick]

Started looking at the rear and noticed that the transmission seems to be off axis slightly ... could be my motor mount. CVs should account for minor off axis?

https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8326/28869132713_6581bbc962_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/KZ4Rnt)

[ninjanick]

Wanted to position the battery boxes to weld the final hardware. The front battery box barely doesn't fit so I'll have to come up with a way to mount them with a full box.

https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8489/29457190206_6db0b08963_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LT2NnL)[/url]

Ride height was set to right around 5". With me in it I'm a little biased towards the drivers side, but the rear bias looks ok at 56.80%. I didn't have any of the body work, glass, or radiator subframe so I should be close to 55% rear bias at the end. Any tips on weight bias? I was going for slight bias to the rear. I can place 4 more batteries in the rear if I want to get closer to 60%.

https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8149/29457190766_955fe5745e.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LT2NnL)[url=https://flic.kr/p/LT2Nxq]

[ninjanick]

I'm not sure why, but with just me in the car the difference in total is 144lbs. which I am not (closer to 175lbs). Also I'm not sure about the BITE figure. Scale readings without me in the car.

https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8246/28869132973_d2e03c5ae5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/KZ4RrX)

[Frank818]

Started looking at the rear and noticed that the transmission seems to be off axis slightly ... could be my motor mount. CVs should account for minor off axis?

https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8326/28869132713_6581bbc962_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/KZ4Rnt)

Absolutely no problem, they can take more than that, I've proven it, although I have Porsche inners but it's the same thing, CVs can take more angle than that.

[turbomacncheese]

Tried to make the motor jumper out of 2/0 and some connectors that are 2/0, but couldn't manage to get all the copper in the connector. Going to try a size up (connector), but if anyone has any tips or tricks. It looks like it will just barely fit, but when I tried to insert the cable ... there are some strands that didn't make it.


I've been known to twist the wires around really tight, then heat it up and melt in some solder. Keeps the wires from smooshing all over, and you can heat it back up before you crimp if you want to smash it all really tight.

[ninjanick]

Last weekend started on the front box which will hold 22 cells. Frame made out of Aluminum T stock.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8788/29329784223_1b9fb0e034_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LFLP1T)[/url]

All cells populated ... slightly offset to the passenger side.
https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5485/29842191542_4ff6f3dc97_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LFLP1T)

And front view.
https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8188/29329782533_0240bf86a5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Mt42RQ)[url=https://flic.kr/p/LFLNvK]

[UnhipPopano]

"I'm not sure why, but with just me in the car the difference in total is 144lbs. which I am not (closer to 175lbs). Also I'm not sure about the BITE figure. Scale readings without me in the car."

No Measurement Instrument is without some inaccuracies, such as sensor accuracy, drift, voltage effect, EMI and RFI. The reading you are getting is probably within 1%, so you should be very happy.

[ninjanick]

2/0 cable is heavy! In between the holidays, family and work I managed to get a little done. Routed the center 2/0 cable plus added some rivnuts for the low voltage wiring.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/708/31358238674_d931b624b8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PM2aRu)[/url]

Would have liked a little more separation ... maybe I'll add another P Clamp on the frame to separate them more?
https://c4.staticflickr.com/1/652/32199698035_9775a966d9_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PM2aRu)[url=https://flic.kr/p/R4nSpv]

[ninjanick]

After a little internal debate, I decided to fabricate my own electronic e-brake. Electrically it is not hard, but the mount take some time. I decided to mount the actuator in the rear since the center console area was getting a little crowded with wiring and shifter cables. Adjacent to the transmission seemed like a good fit plus the cables were long enough. I'll have to trim a little, but it shouldn't be that difficult to make it work.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/497/31358240544_3239a4219e_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PM2bpJ)[/url]

Actuator has limit switches so I can "fine tune" the pull. The motor is supposed to be capable of 250lbf. and only draws 1A (measured). Once the limit switch is activated, current drops to ~30mA (what I remember ... will need to re-measure to ensure I don't drain my low voltage battery). Bias the motor one way activates the motor, reverse and the motor travels back the other way.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/1/606/32199698545_152910230d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PM2bpJ)[url=https://flic.kr/p/R4nSyi]

[ninjanick]

Spent some time today and got the shifter temp installed

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/502/32334705700_b101db67c2_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RgiPtS)[/url]

And clamped the plumbing in place. I had to redo a few lines ... :p

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/279/32714140855_6f2810873f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RgiPtS)

Wasn't sure how best to secure these lines, but this seemed to do the trick

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/628/32591433351_d0f0c3c396_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RQQwki)

Everything is still a little loose ... hoping it will tighten up against the frame a little.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/491/32714137935_bdab115c68_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RDZBEF)[url=https://flic.kr/p/RQQvsX]

[ninjanick]

For those of you knowledgeable about EVs ... I have a contactor in front of my controller which is controlled by the Zilla. I was thinking of adding more contactors as an emergency cut off to "disengage" the traction pack. I was thinking of adding 2 on both the high and low side. Overkill? Just add one?

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/741/32714135575_02a8969b57_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RQQuLg)

[Frank818]

You are able to fit the alu tunnel without cutting it? Mine is cut in all directions, including sliced into LEFT and RIGHT sides. I had to cut almost every edge of it and a long slice in the middle. Easier to install and remove.

[ninjanick]

I cut the aluminum tunnel on top to fit the shifter pattern. I will have to trim it a little to sit flush.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

For those of you knowledgeable about EVs ... I have a contactor in front of my controller which is controlled by the Zilla. I was thinking of adding more contactors as an emergency cut off to "disengage" the traction pack. I was thinking of adding 2 on both the high and low side. Overkill? Just add one?

Nick,
You cannot have overkill when it comes to safety.
Look at what the OEMs are doing as far as interlocks fusing, connectors and contactors.
Below is a link to a document that talks about distributed batteries like you have. The document is 6 years old but still applicable.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/wmg/research/lcvtp/news/hevc11/ws4_review_may11.pdf

Bob

[ninjanick]

Finally got the axles mated to the transmission. I seem to recall someone stating the tapered roller bearing should/can be removed. Does it need to be removed? If so, is there a best way to remove it? I was also looking at the cover plate and noticed that the bolts are too long (by about 0.5"). The tail shaft housing is thicker than the cover plate. Are these supposed to be cut down? Instructions say to install using the provided hardware, but what hardware? I looked through the bag of hardware and didn't find any identified as such. Are they black oxide SHCS like in the picture?

[ninjanick]

Didn't find the hardware in any of the packages, but found an M10x1.25 pitch screw works

[ninjanick]

Tried to get the shift cables on (K Tuned Shifter) and I think I need to bend one of the brackets down. In it's natural state, the angle of the cables is higher than the transmission mount.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2817/33670266195_ab56e253e8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TijV5X)[/url]

If I push down as far as it will go, it's just shy of the bracket thru holes. Angle seems to be extreme. Bend the bracket?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3755/33670265795_a0edb32d7a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TijV5X)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2936/32857024573_d6aef557cb_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TijUY4)[url=https://flic.kr/p/S4sQFF]

[ninjanick]

Decided to fit up the rear strut bar and the holes don't align. This is with the driver side installed with both bolts.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4233/34257826834_34cd413c1d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UcfjoN)[/url]

As you can see, I'm off by about half a diameter and the bottom bolt is in but it's tight.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4285/35101826665_0bf2f3779e_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UcfjoN)

Awhile back I read some others having a similar problem and that the engine weight will pull in the sides. My engine is probably heavier and it looks like I'm still off. In addition, the fork arm hits the strut bar because my motor is mounted high. I know there is supposed to be a spring on the end ... would be the end of the world if I cut the top of the fork off and not install the spring?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4216/34291875373_083203aaa1_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/VtQ392)[url=https://flic.kr/p/UffPQz]

[UnhipPopano]

Regarding the Shift Cable and the question about "Bend The Bracket" the answer is yes. If you do some research on recommendations about the maximum angle, the answer is 15 degrees but the straighter the better.

[ninjanick]

Regarding the Shift Cable and the question about "Bend The Bracket" the answer is yes. If you do some research on recommendations about the maximum angle, the answer is 15 degrees but the straighter the better.

Thanks! I ended up bending it slightly to make it as straight as possible.

[Harley818]

I waited till the end to put my crossbar in and I guess I was lucky..... fit no problem.
Just slid the bolts through the bar, the spacers and the frame.

[wicked93gs]

Just drill another hole in the fork and mount the spring lower after shaving down the top to fit, worst case scenario that was is you have to play around with the spring rate(heavier) by adding a helper spring. To answer your question though, the hydraulic pressure on the slave will keep the fork always extended unless you press the clutch...at which point the mechanical pressure from the pressure plate pushes it back the other way, so even without a spring it should work fine. I am a little rusty on my electric cars...but when using a manual transmission, arent you supposed to not need a clutch for some reason? I've never built one, but I seem to remember reading that somewhere, that all you need is some type of coupler.

[ninjanick]

The WARP11 motor I have can spin up to 9000rpm, but power drops off right after 5500rpm. In my case, the transmission is needed to achieve higher speeds. I'll likely keep it in 3rd or 4th for the most part as I primarily only drive in the city.

[wicked93gs]

I understand the use of the transmission...those extra gears are very handy. Its just the use of the actual flywheel and clutch that I thought was optional because unlike a gasoline engine, when you go to shift the RPM doesn't fall off the same way. This thread references it...
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14163

To be sure, driving even a ICE engine a clutch is not needed. I sometimes practice clutchless driving on several of my mtx cars. I think the rally racer Colin Mcrae races entire rally races without using the clutch pedal, or so I have heard. Its a matter of matching engine and trans speed, a feat that is far easier with an electric motor vs an ICE engine because the inertia is so much lower. Me, I would probably keep the clutch, just because, but many electric car builders ditch it entirely because doing so drops weight(more battery capacity) and loss of energy from rotating mass(IE more range from the battery pack). I am sure with practice shifts could be just as quick as with a clutch.

[longislandwrx]

69203

I know this was an old post but what are you pushing it down for, doesn't it go into this hole?

[TouchStone]

Decided to fit up the rear strut bar and the holes don't align. This is with the driver side installed with both bolts.

As you can see, I'm off by about half a diameter and the bottom bolt is in but it's tight.



Mine looked like this too. I use a ratchet strap to pull the frame inward a bit each time I need to put it on or take it off. Easy to do and I like that the frame has a bit of pre-load (not sure if it actually helps).

[EODTech87]

Mine looked like this too. I use a ratchet strap to pull the frame inward a bit each time I need to put it on or take it off. Easy to do and I like that the frame has a bit of pre-load (not sure if it actually helps).
Ditto. Except I also have to use a deadblow hammer. :(