Building an 818R in Mt Pleasant, NC

[wildhorsesracing]

Howdy all,
We have started the process of building our 1st 818R - our plan is to use a stock 2.0L T for ~225 hp and race it in NASA's ST-3 class. Picking up the kit:
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Donor:
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Now all we need to do is start opening boxes and pull apart a Soobie.

I liked the dolly that Factory Five used to roll the chassis around on so much I decided to build one to use at my shop:
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[wildhorsesracing]

Sorry for the delay but we have been busy with the NASA East Coast Championships (http://nasachampionships.com/east-event/). We are planning to race our 818R there next year.

Finished up the dolly to roll the chassis around as we work on it.

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wanted it up off the ground to we don't strain our backs.

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[wildhorsesracing]

Started pulling parts off of the Subaru

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- didn't get very far :-(

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[riptide motorsport]

Congrats, inch by inch!

[wildhorsesracing]

Day #2 Hrs: 3 Total Hrs: 5

Took the rear IRS assembly out today:
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[Wayne Presley]

How do you eat an elephant? one bite at a time...

When dropping the motor out of the bottom, leave the dog bone mount and trans mount on until you are ready to drop it out. Allows you to pull the front K member off and get it out of your way. I'd remove the oil filler tube as it might get broken if the motor shifts up against the frame...ask me how I know...

[wildhorsesracing]

Day #4 Hrs: 2 Total Hrs: 8

Removed most of the front end and front doors - almost ready to pull the engine.
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[Pearldrummer7]

Cool, another R build! I like the mount. Best of luck with it all; feel free to ask "the forum" anything you're confused on.

[wildhorsesracing]

Day #5 Hrs: 4 Total: 12

Removed the subframes and engine/transmission assembly
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Thanks to Wayne for the tip about the oil filler neck - it was definitely going to be snapped off if we left it on!

[wildhorsesracing]

Day #6 Hrs: 5 Total: 17

Lots of small parts/pieces to remove and modify. Removed A/C compressor, power steering pump, lower control arms, front k-member, steering rack, pullled front axles...

Front spindles - clean and inspect:
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Pulled the fuel pump:
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Drilled the brake pedal for manual brakes:
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[wildhorsesracing]

Day #9 Hrs: 2 Total: 25.5

It's been a while since we have been able to work on it. Went to Watkins Glen with NASA-NE and VIR with NASA-MA/SE to do some racing. Finally back in the shop and getting stuff done. Riveted all of the panels on the front and assembled the shocks.

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Next up is replacing bushings in the front LCA's with new urethane ones.
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Anyone know if we need this bracket if we are using a Wilwood pedal set?
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[mikeb75]

That bracket will not be used. If you did not receive an alternate with 3 holes for the Wilwood pedal master cylinders you need to contact FFR to get it shipped to you. You will also need alternate aluminum panels; they are flat with the 3 cut outs and no hump; unfortunately it looks like you've already installed the ones you received (with hump). [my build thread has pictures of the correct panel & pedal plate]

[wildhorsesracing]

That bracket will not be used. If you did not receive an alternate with 3 holes for the Wilwood pedal master cylinders you need to contact FFR to get it shipped to you. You will also need alternate aluminum panels; they are flat with the 3 cut outs and no hump; unfortunately it looks like you've already installed the ones you received (with hump). [my build thread has pictures of the correct panel & pedal plate]

Awesome- Thanks! I'll get one ordered tomorrow!

[wildhorsesracing]

Day #9 Hrs: 2 Total Hrs: 27.5

Bought these containers at Home Depot and organized all of the hardware.

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New urethane bushings

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Finished the front LCA's and UCA's:

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[wildhorsesracing]

Day 10 Total Hrs: 30.5

Took the front suspension back apart to add washers and spacers for the conversion to an 818R:
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and I learned a lesson, always read the directions completely. I neglected to line up the cotter pin hole so it would be easy to insert.
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Cut all of the brackets and assorted electronics off of the steering shaft but left the wheel tilt mechanism. :cool:

[wildhorsesracing]

Day 12 Total Hrs: 39.5

Finished the front suspension, the rear suspension and started kleco-ing the bottom on.

Bumpsteer kit waiting for new steering rack to arrive:
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Rear suspension attached and ready to roll!
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Cleaned up the steering shaft and painted it red
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Started to Kleco the bottom on
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[FFRSpec72]

Bumpsteer kit waiting for new steering rack to arrive:


Do you really think bump steer is necessary ?

[wildhorsesracing]

It is listed in the 818R addendum. After looking at an 818R that was lowered and didn't have the bumpsteer kit it was pretty obvious that the angles of the LCA's to the steering were not quite right. I used to race AIX Mustangs and bumpsteer was a major factor. Bumpsteer kits make a big difference on track, especially if you use the gators as much as I do :cool:

[FFRSpec72]

It is listed in the 818R addendum. After looking at an 818R that was lowered and didn't have the bumpsteer kit it was pretty obvious that the angles of the LCA's to the steering were not quite right. I used to race AIX Mustangs and bumpsteer was a major factor. Bumpsteer kits make a big difference on track, especially if you use the gators as much as I do :cool:

I agree that certain Mustangs need a bump steer kit, I run a challenge car in the series and the new MKIV spindles that FFR provides come pretty close to removing all the bump steer, so it was a crap shoot to install or not to install, since the spindle had replaceable arms the drilling was not an issue since i can just replace the arms and not the entire spindle like the FX or SN95 spindles. I have put my R on the bump steer gauge and it looks pretty damn close as it sits, granted I'm not at a perfect tested ride height yet but based upon the numbers got, I'm going to wait and see how things go when I get the car buttoned up and on the track

[wildhorsesracing]

Day 12 Total Hrs: 39.5
Didn't get to work on the 818R today, had to change the fan belt on my other obsession:

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Hopefully we'll get at it this weekend.

[Hobby Racer]

Rear suspension attached and ready to roll!
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Where did you get the swedge lock rods for the rear suspension?

[wildhorsesracing]

Where did you get the swedge lock rods for the rear suspension?
Speedway Motors - I live in the heart of NASCAR country (Charlotte, NC) so their catalog is a staple around here.

[Wayne Presley]

Where did you get the swedge lock rods for the rear suspension?

I sell them ready to drop in your car.

[wildhorsesracing]

Day 17 48.5 hrs

It's been a while since I posted because I have been busy racing at Watkins Glen, VIR and Daytona. :cool:

Here is the latest updates:

Assembled gas tank

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Adapted transmission

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installed new steering rack

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Installed the plate for the Wilwood pedal assembly

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Installed the bottom cover (backwards - tab goes in the front!)

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[Pearldrummer7]

Looks awesome! What fuel pump are you running? My Walbro was very tight in the fuel tank. Had to trim down the hose connecting it to the bracket.

[wildhorsesracing]

We used whatever was in the donor car, it wasn't marked. We too had to trim the hose and the return lines to get it thru the hole.

[wildhorsesracing]

Day 22 Hrs 59.5

Installed a new timing belt and oil pan
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Also set her on the ground today for the 1st time
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We are headed to the Santa's Toy Run at Road Atlanta and taking her to show off
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[wildhorsesracing]

Day 24 Total Hrs: 66.5

Deleted TGV valves

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Installed Radiator

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Installed side intrusion plates and started plumbing for the radiator

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[Niburu]

Well I hope you bring that 818 to VIR.
Since you're running with NASA do you know or met Jon Felton or Chris Cobetto?

[Scargo]

I hate to bring this up, as I am no expert, but how can you use that gas tank in NASA racing? Why would you want to?

[Wayne Presley]

Well I hope you bring that 818 to VIR.
Since you're running with NASA do you know or met Jon Felton or Chris Cobetto?

Lol, Jim is the NASA eastern region director, he may just run a NASA race at VIR :-)

[wildhorsesracing]

I hate to bring this up, as I am no expert, but how can you use that gas tank in NASA racing? Why would you want to?

IMHO: I believe it to be safer than many new car factory tanks. I have raced for 20 years and can vouch that I have seen many tank installations that were far worse than this. In NASA the tank is legal if it is an OEM tank from the manufacturer, this is the OEM tank from Factory Five. With the structure of the cage in the 818R I believe it will take a massive hit to get to the tank.

I also have first hand experience with a fuel fire on track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shg92VqoSYY

I will emphatically state that you should always wear ALL of your safety gear whenever you are out on track. I had everything but my balaclava on that day and the 2nd degree burns on my neck & chin proved that I shouldn't have skipped that piece.

FWIW: most of the sanctioning bodies approve cars with OEM tanks, even the newer cars with plastic tanks. The Porsche in the video had a factory plastic tank.

[Scargo]

It is precisely for the situation of the rear-end collision you show in the video that I have my reservations about the gas tank in that location and the squared-off welded design. There is nothing in the rear of an 818. We are totally reliant on first, four mount bolts in shear and second, a few bars, to stop the engine from being pushed into the tank. Just like you, this is my humble opinion.

[wildhorsesracing]

Those are valid concerns, but with the lightness of the 818 I think you'll find that the car will deflect & spin, unless it is pinned in. In which case there isn't any car that can take that type of hit and not have issues with fuel. I have seen stockcars on track with fuel cells back into a wall and the steel can cuts the bladder so the cell leaks fuel all over.

I used to race one of these (yellow one):

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And all they have in the rear is a bumper, plastic fuel cell, battery and rear axle before reaching the driver compartment. But they prove to be extremely rugged because they too only weigh 1700 lbs and in most incidents they simply "bounce" off whatever hits them or the tubing takes the energy and deflects it.

[Brando]

Don't leave out the energy that little rubber chicken will deflect

[wildhorsesracing]

Don't leave out the energy that little rubber chicken will deflect

LOL! That was the mascot!
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[Scargo]

This is an area where finishing my schooling might have helped. I agree with your argument that there might not be enough mass to resist movement from an impact and the car would just go flying. I'm sure that X'd member is pretty strong. What if you had your brakes on or, like you say, up against something or another car? Someone on here built a bumper-like cage around the back. Might have been Sixstars. It tied into the sides. I like that concept.

[wildhorsesracing]

And that is something that could easily be added for someone who wants more protection. As we get more built and racing we also add bumper stiffeners so we can do some bump drafting as well. :cool:

[wildhorsesracing]

Day 27 Total Hrs: 76.5

LOTS of aluminum work done today. Lower part of the rear firewall is complete, under tray beneath the battery in the front is riveted on, and the tunnel inside the car is covered. Apart from aluminum, we got the shift linkage finished on the end of the transmission and started to mount the shifter in the car, but have to wait for a 25/64" drill bit. Cut the wiring connectors out needed for Wayne @ VCP to make a Megasquirt ECU for us. Lastly, we got the hoses we needed for the engine and started assembling the engine, first by mounting the oil pan then it was time to call it a day.

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[wildhorsesracing]

Day 28 Total Hrs: 83

Big day! We installed the engine and started to hook up the coolant lines and clutch line. Thanks to Wayne @ VCP for the advice about taking off the Oil Filler tube to get the engine in.

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We did notice that our radiator is 1 inch too tall - is that normal? What is everyone using for a radiator?
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We also found a great source for the axles.

[Tamra]

I love that you are keeping track of the hours spent. We are too and it has been interesting!

Our OEM radiator is about 1" too tall too. We are going to make a spacer.

[wildhorsesracing]

Day 19 Total Hrs: 88

Spent most of the day on detail work, drain plugs, brake and clutch cylinder work and finished the cooling hoses. Started installing the interior, seats, and electrical connections.
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My son sat in it to try it on for size - we might have to remove the fuel tank to get the seat back far enough, wish there was another 6" of room lengthwise and 2" width.
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[C.Plavan]

IMHO: I believe it to be safer than many new car factory tanks. I have raced for 20 years and can vouch that I have seen many tank installations that were far worse than this. In NASA the tank is legal if it is an OEM tank from the manufacturer, this is the OEM tank from Factory Five. With the structure of the cage in the 818R I believe it will take a massive hit to get to the tank.

I also have first hand experience with a fuel fire on track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shg92VqoSYY

I will emphatically state that you should always wear ALL of your safety gear whenever you are out on track. I had everything but my balaclava on that day and the 2nd degree burns on my neck & chin proved that I shouldn't have skipped that piece.

FWIW: most of the sanctioning bodies approve cars with OEM tanks, even the newer cars with plastic tanks. The Porsche in the video had a factory plastic tank.

That begs the question, If you have first hand experience with a fuel fire, why not just put a fuel cell in? Why even risk it?

[wildhorsesracing]

That begs the question, If you have first hand experience with a fuel fire, why not just put a fuel cell in? Why even risk it?

Because I have seen fuel cells burst as well, so I don't feel that the extra effort is worth it. Besides in the 20 years and 50 or so cars that I have raced competitively that was the only wreck I have ever had. If you feel the extra effort is necessary, then by all means, go ahead and install one. But the fuel tank included with the car is encased inside the cage, I would be highly surprised if anything could impact the car hard enough to get to it.

[wildhorsesracing]

Day 30 Total Hrs: 92.5

Worked on the TGV delete plugs (thanks Wayne @ VCP), installed the driver's seat and rest of the firewall. Also installed the kill switch for racing.
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[C.Plavan]

Because I have seen fuel cells burst as well, so I don't feel that the extra effort is worth it. Besides in the 20 years and 50 or so cars that I have raced competitively that was the only wreck I have ever had. If you feel the extra effort is necessary, then by all means, go ahead and install one. But the fuel tank included with the car is encased inside the cage, I would be highly surprised if anything could impact the car hard enough to get to it.

I'm not in agreement with that, but it is your car. :)

Have you thought about the fuel starvation the stock tank will provide in corners?

[wildhorsesracing]

Haven't thought about that - if it becomes an issue then we'll look at adding another fuel tank. We'd like to take passengers but after mounting the seat we are thinking that we might have to forgo that because it is too tight, we could sure use the legroom if the tank wasn't there.

[Scargo]

One builder modified his gas tank. (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12850-Adam-s-Canadian-818-SR-Build&p=143978&viewfull=1#post143978)
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Hard for me to say whether gas will leave the bowl to the extent that you could get starvation. FFR never ran a stock tank. I do turns where high G's last for 10-12 seconds. I know foam would help sloshing. I stuffed a 8 x 8 x 4 piece of fuel cell foam through about a 3" diameter hole in my STi's tank.

As to safety, To say that incidents are rare is like saying you didn't get lung cancer from smoking. Production cars are crash-tested, too. The 818 is not. To me, this is a big loop-hole that allows an untested configuration to race.
As we know some production cars are not necessarily up to the task in a high speed crash event. Still, this is what some racing orgs will allow, I assume, based on a cars approval by the NHSTA and frontal crash test FMVSS 208. How many times have we seen horrible racing crashes where a rear-ending is involved? In the case of a rear or rear-side impact I now am quite concerned about my STi gas tank vulnerability.

[wildhorsesracing]

I think my tank has a bowl like that already, I remember having trouble getting the fuel pump installed because the filter on the end was hitting the sides of the internal bowl

Has anyone come up with an alternate fuel tank location that doesn't consume the passenger seat area?

[Wayne Presley]

MSD had a fuel pick up blanket on display at PRI that was hooked to a pump with 8 oz of fuel in the tank plus what was in the lines and was pumping a steady stream. The return was hitting the blanket and the fuel hitting the blanket was enough to keep the pump fed.

[Scargo]

Is this part of it? This from MSD/Atomic EFI. Having trouble finding anything related, re, MSD. Sounds like a great idea.
http://www.atomicefi.com/uploadedImages/Fuel%20Pump1.jpg

[Wayne Presley]

It may have been Holley

[metalmaker12]

Looks interesting

[Wayne Presley]

It was Holley

http://bangshift.com/general-news/new-products/must-see-holley-just-changed-fuel-system-game-big-way/

[flynntuna]

^ wow another must have item! Thanks Wayne, the budget keeps creeping higher. :cool:

[Wayne Presley]

^ wow another must have item! Thanks Wayne, the budget keeps creeping higher. :cool:

No problem, glad to help;)

[wildhorsesracing]

Total Hrs 108.5

It's been a while since I posted, been busy with many things and even managed to go on vacation. Been waiting for a few things, new fuel tank, wiring harness and axles.

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[wildhorsesracing]

Total Hrs: 111.5

Got the wheel spacers in the mail yesterday so I installed them, sat in the car and made racecar noises!

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Decided to rotate the turbo to make it easier to plumb and/or add a larger intercooler.

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[Tamra]

Total Hrs 108.5

It's been a while since I posted, been busy with many things and even managed to go on vacation. Been waiting for a few things, new fuel tank, wiring harness and axles.


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Were you able to fit your brake and clutch cylinders without cutting the plastic surround?

Progress looks great!

[wildhorsesracing]

Were you able to fit your brake and clutch cylinders without cutting the plastic surround?

Progress looks great!

Yes, but we cut the plastic dash to make it easier to fill and see. We added a plexiglas window on the front of the dash and plan to put a hinged door on top. You can see the opening and the reservoirs in this image:
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[Mitch Wright]

Just met with the Holley folks last week, the fuel sock will be available in March. I will be getting one to try in the stock tank.

Car is looking good Jim.

[wildhorsesracing]

Total Hrs: 117.5

Moved the turbo up a few inches to clear the intake manifold with some 1.75x.095 tubing. Much easier to plumb now and eliminated the catalytic converter that feeds the turbo.

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[metalmaker12]

Are you making a cutout in the engine cover? Cause your pretty close to it now.

[wildhorsesracing]

I test fitted the cover and the second (passenger) hump gives me plenty of room - 4-6" of clearance, unless the engine cover needs further clearance to fit the rollbars.

[wildhorsesracing]

FWIW: we have been seriously considering modifying the rear deck cover anyway, we want to put an air-to-air intercooler in the rear bumper and feed cool air to it via a scoop a la "ariel atom style"

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[metalmaker12]

FWIW: we have been seriously considering modifying the rear deck cover anyway, we want to put an air-to-air intercooler in the rear bumper and feed cool air to it via a scoop a la "ariel atom style"

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That would be cool, and if I built an R I would have done just that, but maybe twin inlets on top of the humps with an air box under the cover directing air to the IC positioned right before rear facia.

[Scargo]

I'm thinking that the (passenger) hump gets bigger and feeds the intercooler. Remove the R windscreen on that side and perhaps even enclose the passenger side (no passenger) making for a smooth flow into a scoop.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'm thinking that the (passenger) hump gets bigger and feeds the intercooler. Remove the R windscreen on that side and perhaps even enclose the passenger side (no passenger) making for a smooth flow into a scoop.
That is the way FFR blue car intakes air.
Bob
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38427&d=1423094593

[wildhorsesracing]

Total Hrs: 119

WOW! How time flies! It's been over a month of waiting! We've been waiting on a wiring harness , axles that fit and a gas tank that allows folks who have inseams longer than 28" to drive. The gas tank and new firewall arrived this week so we started the process of test fitting it:

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We had to move the routing for the shifter cables. Axle place says we'll have axles this week, they had a helluva time matching subaru axles with the proper ends/splines/cages/etc., then all we are waiting for is a Megasquirt wiring harness from Wayne @ VCP.

We'll start the process if installing the bodywork to kill time while waiting for the wiring.

[Wayne Presley]

Jim, I have more MS3"s coming, your harness is done except for the ECU wiring

[Mitch Wright]

Jim,

When are you targeting for your first track test?

[Hobby Racer]

... I have more MS3"s coming ...

Wayne - Do you have a DBW module for MS3's so we can use 06-07 donor motors without changing to cable throttle yet?

[Wayne Presley]

Wayne - Do you have a DBW module for MS3's so we can use 06-07 donor motors without changing to cable throttle yet?

They have a some prototypes they are testing but no release date yet.

[wildhorsesracing]

Total Hrs: 156

Sorry it's been a while since I posted but we have been waiting for stuff, once we got the wiring from Wayne we got motivated to work on her again. Here is the latest work:
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We are hoping to get her running soon and then test drive it at Roebling Road next month or Carolina (CMP) in May...

[Tamra]

wow that is fast progress!

[wildhorsesracing]

Total Hrs: 164

Got most of the wiring installed, got axles from the Driveshaft shop in Salisbury but they screwed them up and the axles have to go back. They simply made a set of front axles! Lots of hoodpins installed and the new tank is plumbed. Wrapping up wiring and interior next...

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[wildhorsesracing]

It's been a while since I posted but we have been busy working on the wiring harness to fix problems.

Road Atlanta this weekend was a success and a learning experience. It all started Friday morning. Lots of work needed to be done to get the car on the track. First was the oil leak, next was burping the cooling system, seat belts, firewall, and lastly the front suspension setup (which took from 3pm to about 7-8pm to finish). Once all that was done it was time to drive the car around the paddock to test it. Driving it showed that the cooling system would overheat very quickly. We tried burping the system a couple more times and thought that it might be a head gasket failure. Didn't get time to get a radiator pressure tester on it until lunch on Saturday. Checked the whole system and found it was not a head gasket, but more air bubbles in the system. Bleed the system again and drove it around the paddock and found that it would lower the temperature when the car was moving now. Decided to take it out on track for the last session of the day on Saturday. Drove out there found that the tires hit the fenders on track even after we raised the front coil overs 8 turns. Drove around at a normal pace and temperature seemed to be working well.

When we tried to start it in the morning, it would not start. We went to tuning and it could not fix it. We will bring it home and see what could be wrong. Pretty successful weekend, but more work needs to happen before the next event. We will start by taking the wiring harness apart as it seems to have lots of noise in it, not sure why but going to do our best to determine what the problem with the wiring is. I'll keep you posted!

Oh and here's a short clip of brake hose failure going into T10a at Road Atlanta:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjCWltgA29k

[Wayne Presley]

Did you do my cooling system mod?

[wildhorsesracing]

We eventually got the air bubbles out and it ran fine, where can I find out more about your cooling system mod?

[C.Plavan]

Did you guys fix your problems? Has it been on the track again?

[wildhorsesracing]

Funny thing is - we finally got it running correctly today. There were lots of issues with the wiring harness and the MegaSquirt. We are returning the MS 3 on an RMA next week since it has an issue with downloading the logs. We finally were able to look at the logs by taking the unit apart and reading the data card directly in our laptops. There were a few issues with the wiring harness and eventually we figured them all out. The car runs strong, but it's been a crap shoot trying to debug the data and the harness, we finally got a break that got it working today. We are hoping to get another MS3 unit and test it all out next weekend at Road Atlanta, I'll post results as we figure it all out.

[Mitch Wright]

Jim, looking forward to your test report.

[wildhorsesracing]

Mitch - you need to come to RA and test drive it!

[Mitch Wright]

Humm, I actually have a free weekend next week but I should stay home and get some work done on mine, but very tempting Jim. I am a few 10 minute jobs (that take 3 plus hours each) to my first start.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I am a few 10 minute jobs (that take 3 plus hours each) to my first start.

Wow, That comment hits the nail on the head.
I just spent about 12+ hours putting my doors on.
Bob

[wildhorsesracing]

Well we got our 1st full weekend out of the car! It has taken us this long to finally get the VCP wiring harness figured out. Funny thing how the car runs like crap when the ECU is wired incorrectly! Once we sat down with the MegaSquirt manual and traced out the wiring we were able to make a few changes to correct it and get the car starting and running smoothly.

We managed to get good power out of the car and destroyed two clutches on the banks of Daytona International Speedway. We replaced one clutch saturday evening with a local Oreilly's clutch and it only lasted 60 mins on Sunday. Our aero modifications to the headrests and intercooler seem to make good power!
Clutch #1 -
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Front view of intercooler scoop:
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rear view of intercooler scoop
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And lastly - on the banking at Daytona at speed...
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[Scargo]

That's great and I'm sure exciting for you. What kind of power do you think you're making? Can't believe you went through two clutches...
Like the hump mod. Can we see more of how you handled cooling and TMIC ducting?

[wildhorsesracing]

Here is how we mounted the intercooler - it is an aftermarket one that I picked up on eBay.

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