Power Steering - An Easy Mod?

[thedonva]

I want to first say that I try and use the "search" function before posting new threads but I did not find anything that really helped me so here we go:

How easy is it for a mechanic to add power steering? I'm looking for someone that can add wipers and a heater as well.

I live in Stafford, VA so driving an hour is doable (on a sunny day).

Thanks - Don

[Dan Babb]

It's an easy conversion.
BreezeAutomotive sells all the parts you need. The hardest part really is getting the lines made to connect up to your rack (and that's really easy if you mock them up and go to a hose shop to crimp on the ends).

Here's a post I made at the other forum with some details of my swap.
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/332153-another-i-finished-my-power-steering-thread.html

I wound up adding a cooler later on (to replace the 'cooling loop' shown in the pictures

[cobraguy13]

Like Dan said not a real problem just getting the p/s hoses routed. As for the heater that may take a little labor time due to the location of the install behind the dash.

[edwardb]

Regarding power steering, I'll temper the quick answers by the others with a little more cautious "it depends." Tell us more about what engine you're running also about the front accessories setup including water pump and direction. Nearly anything is possible, but some will be easier to convert than others. Probably you know this already, but you will also have to change the manual steering rack with a power rack. Not hard, but a little more work on a completed car.

Also agree a heater is a bit more work to add to a completed car. Kind of depends on how the area behind the dash was used (or not used). One suggestion. Maybe consider heated seats instead? I know the area you live (spent nearly 5 years in Northern Virginia a few years back) and it's relatively mild. Heated seats would work pretty well as an alternative IMO, unless you plan to run a top. Heated seats can be added to a completed car quite easily.

Wipers are easy enough to add to a completed car. Check to see if they're required by local regs though. They really don't do much, especially (again) unless you plan to run a top. Rain-X does as much or more. I find when running the car in the rain without a top (something I've mostly avoided) I get as much water on the inside of the windshield as the outside. The wipers don't do much there.

[thedonva]

Cobraguy13 - since you guys built this you would know how easy it is to put in power steering? I just think it would be easier to get in an out of the garage.

*****

First of - thanks for the replies.

Let me preface this by stating that I am not a car guy, I pulled these specs of the site I bought it from:

I bought a completed car that has an engine from a 1994 Mustang, a 351 Windsor V8. The suspension up front is an adjustable control arm with Koni shocks and adjustable coilovers(?).

I bought a hard top from APE Products (answers any questions about that).

I don't believe you need wipers if you register the car as an antique but I want to be able to drive this as I see fit and not have a mileage limitation.

I plan to have Classic Car Center of Fredericksburg (or someone else) do the mods.

Thanks again - Don - Stafford, VA

[frankeeski]

I plan to have Classic Car Center of Fredericksburg (or someone else) do the mods.

Thanks again - Don - Stafford, VA

If it were me, I would get in touch with Mark Dougherty (the Traveling Builder). He is based in Hersey but travels just about anywhere to help owners out. I can PM his phone # to you if you like.

[thedonva]

Frank - you are the second person to make that recommendation. I'll give him a ring and see if he would be willing to come to VA. I see a number on his web site (717-599-9232) but if you have a different one then please share.

[skullandbones]

If you were just doing the PS then I think you could job it out to any reputable mechanic that would agree to it. However, if you are going to do a heater, I wouldn't consider letting just anyone touch it. Whitbey Automotive has extensive Cobra experience. If you happened to have a local builder like Gordon Levy here in AZ, that would be a good choice. But personally, I wouldn't let anybody touch mine unless they had proven performance history on these cars. You can get into issues with complications that a non experienced mechanic (on these cars) could get into that might compromise the finished product or, at least, cause a problem with the estimate. In this case, I would err on the conservative side and call Mark!

[CraigS]

I just sent you a PM.

[thedonva]

A fellow forum member (Bill VA) recommended that I post some pictures of my engine so here you go...

http://s44.photobucket.com/user/Don_Marrow/embed/slideshow/

[Bill_VA]

A fellow forum member (Bill VA) recommended that I post some pictures of my engine so here you go...

Close, but it's hard to tell from these photos what's hung on the front of your engine. When I did my conversion, the hardest thing was re-configuring the pullies on the engine to accommodate the PS pump. Can you take just a couple more of just the front of the engine?

Installing a heater, neatly, would be a tall order on a finished car. Heated seat are a great way to go and works well.

[Jeff Kleiner]

There are a few different ways of going about power steering. Fast Freddie offers an electric over hydraulic system that does not mount to the engine and therefore would not require modifying it's front dress or pulley configuration.

Bill_VA can show you a beautifully executed setup that uses aftermarket components.

On the other end of the spectrum I've done 4 roadsters with power steering and have used readily available, inexpensive and reliable OEM components on all of them which results in a parts cost of less than $400. Here are the details:

Your existing Mk4 steering shaft can be used simply by removing the manual rack adapter from the end.

Steering rack; choose one:
---Autozone #64163; 2.25 turns lock to lock $75+$18 core =$93
---Autozone #6439; 2.5 turns lock to lock $75+$18 core =$93
---Autozone #6406; 3.0 turns lock to lock $54+$20 core =$74

Power steering pump:
---Autozone #6383 with reservior $45+$24 core =$79

Mounting bracket and pulley:
---CFR Performance bracket #HZ-4306 $55
---CFR Performance pulley #HZ-02011 $40

Hoses and fittings:
---1) Breeze #70516 P/S rack AN adapters $26.00
---1) Breeze #21514 P/S pump AN adapter $13.00
---2) Breeze #21523 Straight AN hose ends $15.00
---1) Breeze #21524 90 degree AN hose end $17.50
---4 FT. Breeze #21102 Braided Teflon hose $19.60

Do a little searching on this as well as the other forum and you'll turn up plenty of discussion on the power steering topic, much of it I've participated in. For a street car I recommend the 3.0 rack. If you prefer a little less assist you can trim the relief spring until you get to the desired level then forget about it. I use my car on the track a lot and run the quick 2.25 rack in conjunction with an adjustable Heidts valve to regulate the amount of assist (full boost on the track, reduced on the street). If you go this route the valve and additional plumbing will run in the neighborhood of $150.

Good luck,
Jeff

[thedonva]

Thank you - valuable info - I will do a little more research but think you gave me some good alternatives.

[thedonva]

Close, but it's hard to tell from these photos what's hung on the front of your engine. When I did my conversion, the hardest thing was re-configuring the pullies on the engine to accommodate the PS pump. Can you take just a couple more of just the front of the engine?

Installing a heater, neatly, would be a tall order on a finished car. Heated seat are a great way to go and works well.

Hi Bill - I cancelled my heater / defroster - do you have a recommendation for the heated seats (web site / parts)?

[edwardb]

Hi Bill - I cancelled my heater / defroster - do you have a recommendation for the heated seats (web site / parts)?

I'm not Bill, but I also recommended heated seats. So OK to answer? :) I've used these on both of my builds: http://www.cobraheat.com/Automotive-Seat-Heaters_c_18.html Many others have as well. I think the forum vendor Fortes sells them, but I've ordered them direct and they shipped very quickly. Some use the waterproof version. I've just used the regular ones. They're inside of seat covers, so not sure what the waterproof gains. You have to take the seats apart to install, but it's not hard. We're really happy with these in our Mk3. Last Saturday cruising started early and it was 49 degrees out. Crazy for August. But the heaters felt good. Have them installed and ready to go in my Mk4.

[thedonva]

Thanks - bought the waterproof ones only because they were a few bucks more - they have a nice sale right now.

[thedonva]

Close, but it's hard to tell from these photos what's hung on the front of your engine. When I did my conversion, the hardest thing was re-configuring the pullies on the engine to accommodate the PS pump. Can you take just a couple more of just the front of the engine?

Installing a heater, neatly, would be a tall order on a finished car. Heated seat are a great way to go and works well.

OK - Here is a picture of the engine front.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f47/Don_Marrow/photo1-4_zps8b250046.jpg
http://vid44.photobucket.com/albums/f47/Don_Marrow/IMG_1069_zps0ab1f2e3.mp4

[Engine Factory]

When converting over to power steering and staying with the hydraulic setup
keep in mind if you want to run a single serpentine belt that it will require a reverse rotation water pump.
a photo of some recent setups weve done........32611
www.fordcobraengines.com

[Norm B]

Here is the front of my engine with power steering. The pulleys are CVF racing and I modified an 87 mustang power steering mount and made my own bracket. For an easier conversion, CVF racing sells a power steering bracket. I believe some forum vendors sell a complete package which makes it even easier than that. If I'd known about them before I built the engine I would have gone that route.

Good Luck
Norm

[Avalanche325]

Lots of good advice already, so I don't have much to add.
P/S hoses that are very nice and just bolt up are available from "Gotta Show". Speedway sells them.
CFR Performance sells pulley and bracket kits at a VERY good price if you need them.

I DO recommend heated seats. Notice that I am in Florida, and still recommend them.

[thedonva]

I called Fast Freddie's today to ask about their kit. The owner said:

"If you are replacing a manual rack with a power you need the rack and correct fitting to attach you existing steering shaft. The manual rack has a 9/166" shaft the power has a 31 spline. It's a very common part/ Otherwise their is nothing needed other than the kit."

So, do I need this "common part" regardless of what setup I go with and does someone have a recommendation for which part # will work? I looked on Breeze Automotive under steering but I'm not seeing the part I need although it is probably right on the page in front of me.

Thanks - Don - Stafford, VA

[edwardb]

I called Fast Freddie's today to ask about their kit. The owner said:

"If you are replacing a manual rack with a power you need the rack and correct fitting to attach you existing steering shaft. The manual rack has a 9/166" shaft the power has a 31 spline. It's a very common part/ Otherwise their is nothing needed other than the kit."

So, do I need this "common part" regardless of what setup I go with and does someone have a recommendation for which part # will work? I looked on Breeze Automotive under steering but I'm not seeing the part I need although it is probably right on the page in front of me.

Thanks - Don - Stafford, VA

Yes, you need that part regardless of the power steering setup you install. It adapts the existing steering column to the input shaft of the power steering rack. As Freddie told you, the manual rack uses a different adapter than a power rack. The part is available directly from Factory Five. Just call them. Edit: Or as Jeff mentioned, do a "wanted" request on the forums and you can probably find one. I remember now, that's how I got mine. ;)

The Fast Freddie setup is nice. I installed it on my Mk4 build. It eliminates having to install an engine driven pump and modify the existing front dress on your engine. It has some other possible advantages as well. But it's not a cheap solution. And while it's not hard to install, I don't know that it's any easier than an engine driven setup. Just different. You have to mount the pump and reservoir, do similar power steering hoses, and requires a direct 12V connection, relay, breaker, etc. Pictures in my build thread here, showing I'm also using it to power hydroboost brakes. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8296-Mk4-7750-Build-Progress-Update&p=134331&viewfull=1#post134331

[Jeff Kleiner]

Don,
There are a bunch of those power steering shaft adapters sitting in builders' garages gathering dust. Every base Mk4 (and unless things have changed over the past year or so since I got my last one every complete kit as well) ships from FFR with a power steering shaft adapter installed. If the builder uses a manual rack that PS adapter gets removed from the steering shaft and is replaced with a manual rack adapter, hence the power version gets set aside. No need to call or order from Factory Five on this---simply post a "Want To Buy" classified here and on FFCars and you'll turn one up in no time for short money.

Cheers,
Jeff

[thedonva]

Don,
There are a bunch of those power steering shaft adapters sitting in builders' garages gathering dust. Every base Mk4 (and unless things have changed over the past year or so since I got my last one every complete kit as well) ships from FFR with a power steering shaft adapter installed. If the builder uses a manual rack that PS adapter gets removed from the steering shaft and is replaced with a manual rack adapter, hence the power version gets set aside. No need to call or order from Factory Five on this---simply post a "Want To Buy" classified here and on FFCars and you'll turn one up in no time for short money.

Cheers,
Jeff

I bought the kit from Fast Freddie so do I still need this? If I do then I'll call the school that built this for me and see if they can send me one.

[Dan Babb]

Post a picture of the end of your steering shaft (where it currently attaches to the steering rack).

There are a few different versions of the steering shaft. If you have one of the older cars (MK3 or earlier), than the current FFR part will not work. I have a MK3 (FFR #5686) and the u-joint on the steering shaft was a clamp on style. Here's a picture of what was on my car.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/DanBabb/ujoints_zpsfb799e05.jpg

I was able to get a u-joint from UniSteer that made the steering shaft to power rack connection.
Unisteer - U-Joint 3/4"-36 (Ford) x 9/16"-30 part number: 8050500

There are some older steering shafts where the u-joint was welded on...if that's the case, then you may need a whole new steering shaft.

[edwardb]

I bought the kit from Fast Freddie so do I still need this? If I do then I'll call the school that built this for me and see if they can send me one.

Yes, as I said in an earlier post, you need a (1) power steering rack and (2) the power steering column adapter regardless of the power steering setup you install. Freddie's setup doesn't come with either. I see you mentioned in another post that the Roadster you purchased was a Mk4. This is the piece you're looking for. Sorry for the slighly fuzzy picture. From my Mk4 build and I edited/cropped the picture to show the part needed.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Power%20Steering/IMG_2391_cropped_zps23c4684d.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Power%20Steering/IMG_2391_cropped_zps23c4684d.jpg.html)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Don,
I concur with edwardb; yes you need the PS adapter.

Dan,
Indeed the steering shaft has been one of the most evolved components. Mk1, 2 and 3 are all different. Mk3.1 and 4 are alike but totally different from all of the previous generations.

Jeff

[thedonva]

I called Monti (Cobraguy13). He built my car with the help of his students. He said I only need the Fast Freddie Kit and the Power Steering Rack adapter. He is going to see if he has one at the school otherwise I'll need to order one (although Factory Five said they can't ship just that part). An alternative that was propossed by CraigS is to order the Flaming River adapter (part # 35132) from Breeze Automotive. Monti says my cars suspession does not have the typical setup.

I'm going to pay CraigS a visit on Sunday...

[BAE]

Non-vendor spam removed

[thedonva]

Yes, as I said in an earlier post, you need a (1) power steering rack and (2) the power steering column adapter regardless of the power steering setup you install. Freddie's setup doesn't come with either. I see you mentioned in another post that the Roadster you purchased was a Mk4. This is the piece you're looking for. Sorry for the slighly fuzzy picture. From my Mk4 build and I edited/cropped the picture to show the part needed.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Power%20Steering/IMG_2391_cropped_zps23c4684d.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Power%20Steering/IMG_2391_cropped_zps23c4684d.jpg.html)

Thanks for the picture - that helps. I did find one of those on the factory five web site although I need to confirm which one I need, they sell a triangular or pyramid shaped adapter.

Don

[Norm B]

The pyramid adapter is for 1994 and up and the splined adapter is for 1993 and earlier racks. Take a look at the rack you intend to use and the difference will be obvious.

Good Luck
Norm

[thedonva]

Ok - for those of you who care and would like to point out that you were right all along, here is what I needed:

Fast Freddie Kit
Power Steering Rack - will probably go with part 6406 from Autozone.
Steering Shaft Adapter for 1993 and early rack (think I found one from the school that built the car).
Rack Extensions - part 14687, which I just bought from Factory Five.

So Edward and Jeff, let the ribbing begin (and thanks)!

Don - Stafford, VA

[edwardb]

Ok - for those of you who care and would like to point out that you were right all along, here is what I needed:

Fast Freddie Kit
Power Steering Rack - will probably go with part 6406 from Autozone.
Steering Shaft Adapter for 1993 and early rack (think I found one from the school that built the car).
Rack Extensions - part 14687, which I just bought from Factory Five.

So Edward and Jeff, let the ribbing begin (and thanks)!

Don - Stafford, VA

No ribbing from here. Sounds like you did your due diligence and figured out what you needed for this approach. The only other thing you may want to think about is extended bellows for the steering rack. You reference the rack extensions, which hadn't been mentioned before but glad you added. Generally considered best practice to use them. But when you add the FFR rack extensions to the steering rack, the existing bellows may be too short. Some guys just stretch them out, and that may be OK. Of you can replace them with extended versions. I replaced mine. Mark at Breeze sells them. https://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=849 They may be available elsewhere.