Heater and defrost?

[RM1SepEx]

I'm adding heated seats and have been looking for basic heat and defrost functions.

Anyone have experience with Vintage Air products? I think that FFR uses a more basic unit with the Cobra and Coupes

http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/vintage-air/product-line/vintage-air-gen-ii-heaters

I can integrate the controls and perhaps make a plenum to better direct the air to heat the cabin vs. dumping it straight down

[K3LAG]

I was considering that same unit. I decided just to go with heated seats if anything at all. We have a longer season than you do.

Vintage air also sells ducts and other parts that can be used with that system. The only thing you have to watch out for is the heater control valve. The valve that comes with that kit completely shuts off the water flow through the core when it is off which will effect cooling the engine. You need a valve that includes a bypass feature. Vintage air doesn't sell one (I called them) but several other places do.

Larry

[RM1SepEx]

That one comes with ducts as does their more basic 50616 which is indeed the system the cobra uses. ( I've been surfing) It appears that the cobra system you choose between heat or defrost by either sliding the temp knob in our out and twist it for temperature, it includes a 3 speed fan.

[BC Huselton]

Where did you find the needed bypass valve for the heater?

Thanks, BC

[RM1SepEx]

I haven't found it yet...

Too many irons in the fire that can wait. Heater, wipers, install heaters in seats... I need to be able to drive the damn thing!

[K3LAG]

Where did you find the needed bypass valve for the heater?

Thanks, BC

Old Air Products has one.

[Goldwing]

If you come up empty on the bypass valve, you could add a T at the main engine coolant outlet and run the heater with that. It'll take longer to get heat, but will simplify the problem and the plumbing. Just brainstorming here.

[BC Huselton]

Here is the part number from old air products

50-1555 Electric, bypass Heater Valve Kit @ $86.50 = ouch!

BC

[OCCPete]

I'm adding heated seats and have been looking for basic heat and defrost functions.

Anyone have experience with Vintage Air products? I think that FFR uses a more basic unit with the Cobra and Coupes

http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/vintage-air/product-line/vintage-air-gen-ii-heaters

I can integrate the controls and perhaps make a plenum to better direct the air to heat the cabin vs. dumping it straight down

I used that unit in my Cobra. It's a nice unit. I made a plenum out of PVC sewer pipe to redirect the air to vents rather than just dumping straight down. It was a bit challenging building a plenum because the floor heat door covers the entire bottom of the unit. The other downside is there is no way to turn off flow to the defrost vents - it's either all defrost or heat and defrost.

[OCCPete]

Here is the part number from old air products
50-1555 Electric, bypass Heater Valve Kit @ $86.50 = ouch!
BC

If you want to go with a vacuum controlled valve, you can get one for less than $20: http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15-5533-Heater-Shut-Valve/dp/B000C9DDIA/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1407959179&sr=1-2&keywords=heater+control+valve

[Jaime]

I have something started. Hopefully my bypass valve will come today or tomorrow.

I got the Vintage Air Gen-II. I like the servo-driven mixing door and heat valve - although the included valve isn't for a bypass system.

I put it under the dash on the passenger side so the defrost outlets are pointed up and the heat outlet is in a place where some ducting will make it useful.

Here's the hole I cut and the two bars I welded in:
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab273/jaime398/818%20Build/20140913_213905_zpsre2ai2n0.jpg

Heater in place:
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab273/jaime398/818%20Build/20140913_220727_zpsdmp06ayl.jpg

View from cockpit:
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab273/jaime398/818%20Build/20140913_220742_zpsvkf7ub6k.jpg

[Jaime]

I bought some 30 inch outlet tubes from summit and bent them like this:

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab273/jaime398/818%20Build/20140917_224222_zpspwmddvle.jpg

I like that there's no extra fittings in the cockpit. Cooling water hurts. Once my bypass valve comes, I'll get the plumbing finished.

[bbjones121]

any updates?

[Jaime]

It's all plumbed...

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab273/jaime398/818%20Build/20140926_220848_zpsfp0ipauc.jpg

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab273/jaime398/818%20Build/20140926_220911_zpsbi3zecq6.jpg

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab273/jaime398/818%20Build/20140926_220938_zpsuwjutyh1.jpg

I would really like to put hard lines where it goes around the exhaust and under the engine, but I think I'll wait until after I get it on the road.

[Jaime]

The Old Air servo bypass value (http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/heater-cores/50-1555/heater-valve-p-3667.html) has the same electrical connector as the non-bypass valve that came with the Vintage Air kit. I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same servo, so I shouldn't have any surprises when I wire it up. That will be a job for a bit later - I'm just happy I am almost ready to put coolant in now.

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab273/jaime398/818%20Build/20140926_220956_zpsrzgr2cef.jpg

[bbjones121]

Any updates?

[Jaime]

I haven't done any more electrical on it yet - I'm currently fitting the body. I'll get back to the cockpit next. It does get nice and warm when the car runs.

[RM1SepEx]

Jaime, reasoning for placing it at the engine vs up with the heater unit? I imagine that it takes longer to heat up with the long run of cold water

[Jaime]

I didn't want any fittings in the passenger compartment. Spilling 180 degree water on a passenger never works out well. Had I ended up running the lines through the hood area, I probably would have considered putting the valve up front. But, the location of my heater core connections made that not a great idea.

[RM1SepEx]

good reasoning!

[cmcintyre]

Jaime - I'm installing the same unit and have spent the last little while learning to weld for both the brackets and my seat and harness installation.
Coupla questions, if I may. Why did you choose to orient the unit parallel to the ground, rather than vertically with the heat vent flap downward?
And what was the purpose of the firewall cutout you made?

I'm thinking of having that flap downward for feet heat and flexible tubing up to the defrost diffusers. Is there a clearance issue I'm not seeing?

Thanks for your posts, they're very helpful

[Jaime]

The hole is for the motor. It hangs about five inches into the under-hood area. I felt the plumbing fit better and the unit stayed out of the passenger foot well better mounted horizontally. With it pushed back as far as I have it, the defrost outlets line up well and there's room for a duct to get some of the heat to go over to the driver's side.

[cmcintyre]

Thanks for the response. Pulled the unit back out and can now see how you came to those conclusions!

Thanks again!

[tmoretta]

Could hot air from the rear of the radiator be ducted to under the dash? Seems that might provide atleast some heat once engine is up to operating temp.

[Jaime]

Yes. But the air flow over the main radiator is quite significant. You would end up capturing a small amount of the radiated heat and losing the rest with the air that you can't route through the passenger compartment. For example, if you have a 24x12 inch radiator, and you are going 30mph, you are running 5000 cubic feet per minute of air through the radiator. A car heater fan on high blows about 300cfm. So, you would have to dump about 95% of the air, and 95% of the heat to avoid ridiculously high speed wind blowing out of the ducts.

A hear core is essentially just a second radiator with a controlled air flow, so that you keep all the extracted heat.

[bbjones121]

Anyone else have heater installed?

[Jaime]

I'm not another person, but I have new information. I can now confirm that the diverter servo I hooked up in post #15 (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15335-Heater-and-defrost&p=171255&viewfull=1#post171255) works without any modification.

[bbjones121]

Awesome. Thanks Jaime. I am getting ready to purchase a unit. With the coupe coming, I was thinking of getting a/c model just in case. I wouldnt set it up right away.

[AZPete]

If you are thinking A/C then look at the Vintage Air Mini Space-Saver unit (01000-VUX-A). It fits nicely under the right side of the dash and I didn't have to cut the firewall other than holes for the heater hoses. I ran the A/C lines back on the right side and the heater hoses run down the left side and in the rear I could mount all 4 hoses high enough to avoid the hot header. I mounted the heater control valve in the front and I also made a bypass before the heater control valve with a bleeder port. I had seen here that the thermostat requires flow between the heater lines so my bypass with bleeder lets water circulate through the heater hoses even when the heater control valve is closed. In this photo you can see the 2 black heater hoses in front of the firewall and the bypass just on the other side of the diagonal frame piece. Everything is plumbed and wired now, but I have not taken my 818 to get the A/C system leak-checked and charged, so no cool air yet. However, I'm getting warm air from the 4 dash vents and 3 fan speeds.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/AC%20evap%20in%20dash.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/AC%20evap%20in%20dash.jpg.html)

[bbjones121]

Do you think there would be any issue putting a "T" in the hose going to bottom of radiator and a "T" fitting on the radiator discharge?

[RM1SepEx]

That's what I was just considering today! And why not just let the water circulate all the time? No fan, no inside heat?

[bbjones121]

You could even just use the on/off valve that comes in the vintage air kit right? I probably wouldn't want hot coolant circulating without a way to exhaust heat. It may warp or melt pieces over time.

[RM1SepEx]

Yes, that could be an issue and there is no reason you couldn't use it in this application

[bbjones121]

I just wonder if there would be enough pressure difference to pull enough coolant through the core.

[bbjones121]

Hey AZPete, Any update and photos of this installation? I am trying to order fittings for my install.
Thanks,
Paul



If you are thinking A/C then look at the Vintage Air Mini Space-Saver unit (01000-VUX-A). It fits nicely under the right side of the dash and I didn't have to cut the firewall other than holes for the heater hoses. I ran the A/C lines back on the right side and the heater hoses run down the left side and in the rear I could mount all 4 hoses high enough to avoid the hot header. I mounted the heater control valve in the front and I also made a bypass before the heater control valve with a bleeder port. I had seen here that the thermostat requires flow between the heater lines so my bypass with bleeder lets water circulate through the heater hoses even when the heater control valve is closed. In this photo you can see the 2 black heater hoses in front of the firewall and the bypass just on the other side of the diagonal frame piece. Everything is plumbed and wired now, but I have not taken my 818 to get the A/C system leak-checked and charged, so no cool air yet. However, I'm getting warm air from the 4 dash vents and 3 fan speeds.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/AC%20evap%20in%20dash.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/AC%20evap%20in%20dash.jpg.html)

[AZPete]

I'm sorry to report that I've made no progress on the A/C. I've been working on the interior so I made a console to hold the A/C controls but still have not had the system charged, though it's all plumbed and wired. I've got to finish some stuff, get it licensed, and then take it to an A/C shop. Where's the time go?

[Innkeepr]

Are you using the factory AC pump ?
I picked up a EJ207 and they cut the hard lines about 18 inches after the pump.

I am trying to locate the photos, didn't someone place a radiator in the rear, behind the transmission ?
Not sure if it was the primary, or a secondary for the heater. It might have been an AWIC, I cant recall.

Still in the process of collecting parts, trying to plan ahread.
Thanks,
"E"

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I am trying to locate the photos, didn't someone place a radiator in the rear, behind the transmission ?
"E"
Yes
my radiator is in the back. I did not have a AC condenser coil.
Bob
44132

[Innkeepr]

Bob,

Really like that design. Does your exhaust have any ill effect on the cooling ?
Are you going to run the AWIC unit in the front ? doesn't seem like you have much wiggle room back there !

Like others, I am looking for "value" of resale - as in potential. That said, just about every person who has looked at my Cobra
asks " does it have A/C " and or " where is the heater/defroster at" ? - Always understood the heater question, just not the A/C..its a Vert !

Putting this together, I would like more creature comforts.

Thanks.
"E"

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob,

Really like that design. Does your exhaust have any ill effect on the cooling ?
Are you going to run the AWIC unit in the front ? doesn't seem like you have much wiggle room back there !

Like others, I am looking for "value" of resale - as in potential. That said, just about every person who has looked at my Cobra
asks " does it have A/C " and or " where is the heater/defroster at" ? - Always understood the heater question, just not the A/C..its a Vert !

Putting this together, I would like more creature comforts.

Thanks.
"E"

Hello E
The exhaust has no effect on the cooling system. I have it totally wrapped trying to put all the heat out the exhaust pipe.

I have a small radiator in front that I use for the awic.
44156

I will add heat in my 818s.

Creature comforts: I'm trying to decide on a cup holder or NOT.

Bob

[iblackwe]

That's what I was just considering today! And why not just let the water circulate all the time? No fan, no inside heat?

I am about to do a heater install and was thinking the same thing as this is how it is setup in the factory system.

Also, I am using an impeller less water pump with no thermostat as I am using a Davies Craig kit to pump coolant through the system, would there be any issue with not having a thermostat and a heater core?

Also wondering if I can plum into the heater core lines at the entry point near the lower radiator hose connection rather than at the top of the engine block. As I currently have looped the line that factory five recommends inplace of a heater core. So the line that would typically feed the heater core would instead be redirected at the lower rad hose connection to my heater core in the passenger compartment. Then the return line would plum back into the original line eventually leading back into the coolant cross over pipe. I am just wondering if these are tee'd in near the lower rad hose and without a thermo stat for resistance the heater core would become the path of least resistance and it wouldn't flow coolant into the block.

Any thoughts/advice? Thanks in advance!

[RM1SepEx]

I just purchased a simple two heat setting 12 volt fan system online to try, think 12 volt hair drier. Between it and my seat heaters it should allow me an extra month of driving

[Hot_Rod_Hooligans]

Most likely I will be going this route, found it on a Facebook group, guy in Australia has used them
http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/heatac

[RDRP]

I have just began the defroster A/C journey. My plan install the unit (mostly) between the top of the frame and bottom of the dash. Since I am building a coupe, I have the roof hung for storage and do not have an easy way to determine the dimensions below the dash panel to the top of the frame. Any one out there have the height dimension?

[bbjones121]

I have just began the defroster A/C journey. My plan install the unit (mostly) between the top of the frame and bottom of the dash. Since I am building a coupe, I have the roof hung for storage and do not have an easy way to determine the dimensions below the dash panel to the top of the frame. Any one out there have the height dimension?

I could get the dimensions when I get home... If I remember. There is not enough space for any HVAC system that I know of. Most people hang them below frame. I cut my dash frame​ and rewelded it to bring a vintage air mini system up a bit. See my build thread, I have lots of photos.

[RDRP]

I found a unit that is 5-1/2" tall. I looks like it may be close. If I can get away with dropping the cross bar 1" it will be very easy to install. I really appreciate the help!