Mkiv dash installation

[NICK C]

I am getting ready to start dash installation on my MKIV and am mot sure of how the ends of the dash are to be shaped and the best way to do it. I understand that they bend back in behind hinges but to what degree? Do the ends actually attach or just suspend out. Any pics of the process would be appreciated. Thanks Nick C

[Jeff Kleiner]

FFR says to tuck the dash ends behind the hinges but I don't care for that and use some simple brackets to secure it to the firewall extension on the passenger side. The end is trimmed a bit to accomplish this. Although this photo isn't focused on it you can see how it was done:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/100_2093.jpg

The driver's side does not have a firewall extension but a similar angle bracket attached to the 2X2 tube accomplishes the same thing (green arrow). BTW, the photo with the colored pointers is a leftover from another post but if you're curious the red arrow shows the location of one of the adjustable dash mounts and the blue arrow indicates one of the lower supports.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/dash.jpg

If it ever needs to be removed the sides are secured using chrome buttonhead bolts with nuts on the backside which are accessable from below.

Cheers,
Jeff

[CraigS]

I prefer to let it go out against the inside of the body like the red line in this pick.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/craig-s/Dashend_zps6b0f4cb1.jpg
This covers up a lot of the top of the hinge and the frame. My MkII has the dash end just slightly shortened and it fits tightly between the hinge plate and the body so no attachment screws needed.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/craig-s/Dashendmine_zps498fc1e3.jpg
Also while thinking about the dash, you might want to look into lowering the attachment points. If done per the manual the body covers the screws meaning the body needs to be moved to remove the dash. Look for Bill3422s' build thread to see what he did.

[NICK C]

Great photos Jeff. They help a lot. Do you just hand bend the ends or mechanically roll them? Much appreciated Nick

[NICK C]

Thanks for the info Craig. The manual isn't that clear. Nick

[edwardb]

The dash ends can be rolled by hand pretty easily using a round shape such as a quart paint can.

[Jeff Kleiner]

The dash ends can be rolled by hand pretty easily using a round shape such as a quart paint can.

Or not! I just eyeball them.

Jeff

[NICK C]

Thank you gentlemen. Nick

[CraigS]

If you do it the way I did just give them a little bit of a start of a bend. Having outward spring to the panel keeps it tight against the underside of the body so it stays wedged in position.

[NICK C]

That makes sense Craig. Does the dash sit flush with the hoop or down some. Since I don't have the body on I'm trying to visualize if there's a gap to be seen between body and dash.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Nick,
Let the vinyl run long along the top of the dash then tuck it back behind the body lip. Look at the pics I posted above and you'll see how it kinda' runs wild at the top edge.

Jeff

[NICK C]

Ah I see that now. Ok Thanks Jeff.

[Rotorcraft]

So is it best to curve the aluminum at the edges before, or after gluing on the vinyl to it??

[68GT500MAN]

I do not think that it will matter, I used contact cement to glue my dash cover to the aluminum and then bent the ends. No problems were incountered doing it this way.
Doug

[smithbks]

I did the same and glued it first then bent it around a coffee can. Gluing it first seems easier because everything is flat and you can line it up well - especially with contact cement. The vinyl, and in my case padding, stretch without any problem.

[edwardb]

I've done it both ways. Covered then bent. Bent then covered. Either works and probably not worth worrying about. Either will work. Whichever you're more comfortable with.

At the ends, I normally have about 1/2 inch wrapped around on the back side, with pie-cuts every inch or two and then glued to the back. The only very slight advantage I noticed was the wraparound on the back puckered a bit when bent after covering. The other consideration I had was I used Alec's glovebox and vinyl on my Mk4. I really like the look and the vinyl is nice. But it's relatively soft compared to the standard FFR stuff. I didn't want to bend with the vinyl in place just in case I might damage it. So for my Mk4, bent it first, confirmed the fit in the chassis, then covered.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/th_IMG_2280_zps2c09ca7a.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/IMG_2280_zps2c09ca7a.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/th_IMG_2281_zpse916134b.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/IMG_2281_zpse916134b.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/th_IMG_2284_zpsff0db7a5.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/IMG_2284_zpsff0db7a5.jpg.html)

[Al_C]

Reviving an old thread because I need to address this challenge this weekend...

1. I'm doing a veneer so I need to bend the dash before I glue anything. It looks like if I do Craig's approach, the dash goes OVER the door hinge, yes?

2. If I take Jeff's approach, I mount the ends INSIDE the hinges? Did you fabricate the right angle pieces or do I have them in a box somewhere? (Cut me a little slack - I'm on the road...)

3. I need to expand the openings for the speedo and tach, but probably not as much as the preset cuts in the dash - or does it not matter? Normally the folded vinyl would take up the slack. The question is if I need an exact hole or if screwing down the retaining ring will hold the gauge sufficiently. Your thoughts?

[edwardb]

Reviving an old thread because I need to address this challenge this weekend...

1. I'm doing a veneer so I need to bend the dash before I glue anything. It looks like if I do Craig's approach, the dash goes OVER the door hinge, yes?

2. If I take Jeff's approach, I mount the ends INSIDE the hinges? Did you fabricate the right angle pieces or do I have them in a box somewhere? (Cut me a little slack - I'm on the road...)

3. I need to expand the openings for the speedo and tach, but probably not as much as the preset cuts in the dash - or does it not matter? Normally the folded vinyl would take up the slack. The question is if I need an exact hole or if screwing down the retaining ring will hold the gauge sufficiently. Your thoughts?

1. The ends can be inside or on top of the door hinge mounting tabs. Either works.

2. There are no brackets included in the kit for mounting the dash ends. If you want them fixed, then you'll need to fab something. I've done it both ways. Fixed or left loose. Leaving them loose seems to be fine.

3. I recommend having the holes in the dash fit the gauges pretty snuggly. I can only speak for Speedhut. The flanges aren't real large, so you don't want the holes too big.

[PeteH]

I would suggest test fitting the speedo and tach in the precut holes at the beginning before the cover is glued on. On the 289, precut holes were 3 3/8", much to my surprise, the vintage gauges supplied by FF needed 3 3/4" holes. I discovered this after gluing leather on. Fortunately, was able to open up the holes with a deburring bit carefully. Then the ring that tightens on the back of gauge hit the tube hoop the dash mounts to, so had to move entire dash down about 1/8" and re drill screw holes in the hoop tube.

[Al_C]

Yup, did trial fit the gauges. These are the vintage gauges. The fully cut hole in the dash is too small. For lack of a better way to describe it, there are pre-cuts that would be too large. If I'm going to get the diameter close - as EdwardB suggests - then I need to draw my own lines and cut out that way. I figured that's what I'd need to do - you guys are just confirming it. The dremel is probably the best way to accomplish that. I'll post some photos this evening and seek feedback before I do anything rash...

[phileas_fogg]

I just cut holes in my blank dash for the F5 classic gauges. A "snug" diameter for the tach & speedo is 3.900 inches. 4" is definitely too big. The smaller gauges will work with a 2" hole, but if you go a skosh smaller they fit better.

To get just the right diameter, I used one of these (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004T7P2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and a drill press. Nerve wracking, but it got the job done.

Note that whatever you use, you'll almost certainly have to "massage" the holes to get the gauges to line up. So err on the side of too small.


John

EDIT: I should point out that my 3.9" and 2" dimensions for the gauge holes does NOT account for dash padding or material.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4293/35455975104_be5e8dea81_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/W2898A)IMG_3522 (https://flic.kr/p/W2898A) by jhsitton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/91016165@N07/), on Flickr

[Straversi]

I just cut holes in my blank dash for the F5 classic gauges. A "snug" diameter for the tach & speedo is 3.900 inches. 4" is definitely too big. The smaller gauges will work with a 2" hole, but if you go a skosh smaller they fit better.

To get just the right diameter, I used one of these (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004T7P2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and a drill press. Nerve wracking, but it got the job done.

John


With any of the hole saws, especially the one you linked to, if you use secure the dash to plywood with sheet metal screws (between the pilot hole and the cutter) and turn your drill press speed way down, the chatter will go away and be less nerve wracking. That's just a general comment, not instructions to you John. You obviously have it dialed in. That's a good looking dash.

-Steve

[phileas_fogg]

Thanks Steve. I was using my neighbor's drill press, and the slowest it goes is 620 rpm. The max safe speed on the bit is listed at 500 rpm. Yikes!

We used a couple of woodworking clamps to keep the aluminum from moving around. Sheet metal screws between the pilot and cutter would have been a "hole" (see what I did there?) lot more secure. Next time, for sure.


John

EDIT: I should point out that my 3.9" and 2" dimensions for the gauge holes does NOT account for dash padding or material.

[cnutting]

I would suggest test fitting the speedo and tach in the precut holes at the beginning before the cover is glued on. On the 289, precut holes were 3 3/8", much to my surprise, the vintage gauges supplied by FF needed 3 3/4" holes. I discovered this after gluing leather on. Fortunately, was able to open up the holes with a deburring bit carefully. Then the ring that tightens on the back of gauge hit the tube hoop the dash mounts to, so had to move entire dash down about 1/8" and re drill screw holes in the hoop tube.

I had the same issue with mine. Turns out FFR gave me the MkIV gauges instead of the 289 set. Courtnie straightened it out and everything fit as intended.

[GWL]

This is an old thread from 2014 and the ends of the dash are not supposed to be secured as Jeff suggested and I believe he has changed from doing this. The body needs to avoid contact with the ends of the dash. The dash ends need to be trimmed and allowed to float, unsecured. See post #5 j.miller in linked thread on mounting dash.

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/493729-still-need-leave-dash-edge-top-mk4.html

George