Updates from the Ultimate Track Car Challenge

[Dave Smith]

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/818-utcc.jpg

AM Report from VIR: The weather is absolutely perfect (and NOT typical for Virginia in mid-July!). Temps are a cool 70 degrees and dry with clear skies with an expected high of 85 degrees.

The cars are ready, drivers meeting is done, and we hit the track for the first of four sessions at 9:30 this morning.

We'll report at the end of the day, and let you know how the team and car does.

[jimgood]

Good luck, guys!

[jimgood]

Anyone know why the live timing and scoring isn't updating for the UTCC session? I hope it's not because they don't want to release results for that event. Here's the link: http://www.nasaracing.net/

Edit: it looks like placement is being updated, just not times. :mad:
Edit2: Oh, I see. I think the first half of the session was under red flag...or they just started late. It just went green. at about 9:45.

[David Hodgkins]

Thanks for the link Jim!

In 3rd! No, 2nd! Wish I was there... GO JG!!

:)

[jimgood]

Dang. Ryan Eversley just posted a 1:57 in a BMW 135. That's cookin'!

C'mon John!

[jimgood]

Holy Mackeral! Ryan Eversley just did a 1:56! If that BMW can do it, the 818R can do it too! Heat it up, John!

According to one site, the car that Eversley is running is pushing 600hp.

[David Hodgkins]

Jim, not sure what I'm looking at; is this a practice?

:)

EDIT: OIC, I think this is it (http://www.nasaracing.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/jul14vir-utcc.pdf):


TRACK TIME: This is a regular NASA TT group so passing is allowed anywhere on the
track and a point-by signal is recommended but not required. The first session of the day
is a warmup and fast laps will not count toward overall standings so please take it easy.
All later sessions will be gridded by prior session results and each driver’s fastest single
lap of the day is what counts.

[C.Plavan]

Here you guys go.
http://i.imgur.com/XDU5Sapl.png

[jimgood]

Jim, not sure what I'm looking at; is this a practice?

:)

EDIT: OIC, I think this is it (http://www.nasaracing.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/jul14vir-utcc.pdf):


TRACK TIME: This is a regular NASA TT group so passing is allowed anywhere on the
track and a point-by signal is recommended but not required. The first session of the day
is a warmup and fast laps will not count toward overall standings so please take it easy.
All later sessions will be gridded by prior session results and each driver’s fastest single
lap of the day is what counts.
Right. This morning was just the practice session. Timed sessions are later this morning and this afternoon. Here is the schedule PDF for today:

http://www.nasaracing.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/jul14vir-sched-fri-v2.pdf

John and the 818 are in Group B. Here is the final entry list:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iwNAd97qwzv7OKzeTX5UUOTEys1tCLuZX0TU5_2rZzc/pubhtml

Everley's BMW must have been a late (really late) entry because I don't see it on there.

[EricScottZehnder]

For those that care, here's last year's results: http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/NASA_Mid_Atlantic_Region/2013%20-%20Official%20Results/2013%20GRM%20UTCC/2013_UTCC_Combined_FINAL.pdf

Factory Five's best times last year were 2:09.491 for the 818R and 2:05.404 for a Cobra.

This year (as you can see above), the best time for the 818R is 2:08.426 so already a second lower in practice. That being said, VIR is a bit more on the power circuit side (and braking) than a tight handling circuit or high aero.

[billjr212]

Ryan Eversley's twitter page says that BMW has 700 hp. Guess that would about cover the power side of things that VIR demands.

Anyway, keep updating the thread people! My office firewall is blocking the feed from nasaracing.net. No fun at all.

Excited to see how the 818 does!

[C.Plavan]

Looking at the timing of the 2nd session...... looks like something broke. :(

[EricScottZehnder]

Looking at the timing of the 2nd session...... looks like something broke. :(

Yeah...that really doesn't look good.

[jimgood]

Yeah, that's disappointing but maybe they'll get it fixed before the next session.

Anyone know which car they're running in the event; blue or red?

Edit: never mind. Entry list says it's the red/white car.

[bbjones121]

Any updates? I can't get to website.

[bbjones121]

Probably more people paying attention to this race than normal. Server overload.

[jimgood]

Group A is on the track now. They're wicked fast. A Dodge Viper just turned a 1:44.

[jimgood]

Here's a direct link to the live timing page: http://www.race-monitor.com/Live/Race/18941

Something's a little haywire. According to the schedule Group B should be at the end of their session. But it's still showing the results from Group A. If Group A is done, Group B should be running. Not sure if the feed is behind, the schedule is running behind or something got shut down.

Edit: Group B is just showing up. Must be way behind schedule.

[David Hodgkins]

Group A is on the track now. They're wicked fast. A Dodge Viper just turned a 1:44.

Wow...

[bbjones121]

Wonder what happened. The 818 isnt racing this round.

[bbjones121]

It looks like John started lap, but didn't finish. I hope everything is ok.

[jimgood]

Bummer. It looks like the 818 is not running in this session. The results show the session over with John on Lap 1 and no time which I think means he went out but never finished the lap.

Their next session is scheduled for 4:20 but they're running about a half hour behind. So, they should hit the track around 5:10.

[jimgood]

Wow...
Wow just about covers it. 3.27 miles in 1:44. :cool: Average of about 112 mph.

[C.Plavan]

I mean really? What should we expect? I'm rooting for it like you all. However, the car was just built without real track testing. No time to work the Gremlins out. I would of expected better planning from FFR, especially after last years trans issue.

The car has such great potential, but going out to a magazine shootout (that will be published) in a newly built car, with new stuff installed, with no real testing = not the best decision for the 818 brand IMHO.

I'm not meaning to sound harsh, I'm just being realistic. Sadly, I have been racing way too long to know everything will not be prefect in a new car :( .

That being said, I hope they can get it fixed and can turn some laps. Go get them George!

[bbjones121]

I am hoping something didnt happen to John.

[bbjones121]

I agree with the testing aspect. Also need to elicit some help from subaru racers. The WRX is a world class race car.

[David Hodgkins]

John posted to facebook:


Balls :(
red car keeps dumping water past the radiator cap.. Blown headgasket we think. Time for blue car for last session

Chad, I agree with everything you said about race prep. I think the whole reality show thing may have had an influence on the decision to run the red car. I'd bet the plan was to do the build in 30 days, put the new car out first and record the results. Now if they take out ol' blue and rip up the track, they can tout the speed of the car literally out of the box, and the speed capability with a mature (sorted) car. They did bring 2 cars, including their dialed-in blue car, and I'm thinking they knew there was the chance of breakage.

JMHO

:)

[Brando]

This is making it really hard to work. Good luck guys hope you get back on the track!

[EricScottZehnder]

Last Group B session just started, people. Let's hope we can make something of it!

Edit: First flying lap was a 2:11 so at least it's not limping around.

EDIT: Second flying lap was a 2:04.190!! That's over 5 seconds faster than last year in the same car (blue). Wonder if the blue car's lower downforce (lack of canards and older aero) suit this non-aero-heavy track more.

[bbjones121]

2:04...now we are talking. Break 2:00.

[C.Plavan]

2:04!

[David Hodgkins]

2.04.190 on lap 3...

[C.Plavan]

Blue car must have broke also. :(

[Mechie3]

Doh. There's nothing I dislike more than not getting a chance to test something before a show. Work, racing, or just fixing the DD I always like a test.

[metalmaker12]

John posted to facebook:


Balls :(
red car keeps dumping water past the radiator cap.. Blown headgasket we think. Time for blue car for last session

Chad, I agree with everything you said about race prep. I think the whole reality show thing may have had an influence on the decision to run the red car. I'd bet the plan was to do the build in 30 days, put the new car out first and record the results. Now if they take out ol' blue and rip up the track, they can tout the speed of the car literally out of the box, and the speed capability with a mature (sorted) car. They did bring 2 cars, including their dialed-in blue car, and I'm thinking they knew there was the chance of breakage.

JMHO

:)

That's what happened to my engine

[David Hodgkins]

That's what happened to my engine

You broke it while filming a reality show?

:D

[Dave Smith]

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/ffr-crew.jpg

It was a tough tough day at VIR for the Ultimate Track Car Challenge. I'm super proud of the team, and they fought hard all day to get the cars running fast. We just seemed to have one problem after the next. Our best lap time was a 2:04, but everyone is disappointed because the car has so much more potential. Cooling/radiator issues plagued us all day. John George drove well, and I'll have a full report Monday.

Huge thanks to FFR customer Jim Myers who loaned me his spec racer Miata so I could try out the new track surface and have a little fun while the guys were working. Racing is one of the most fun things, but it can also break your heart and today is the latter.

It was great seeing Jeff from Whitby Motorcars and a few customers who stopped by to help out.

[metalmaker12]

You broke it while filming a reality show?

:D


I wish !! Maybe I will get that chance

[EricScottZehnder]

Dave - Is there a chance you guys could fix the red car's issues and then take it back to VIR during just a regular track day? I'm sure you guys would like to see how much faster you'd go and I think it would be a great follow-up to this mixed result.

[jimgood]

Sorry you guys had such rough time of it. That 2:04 says something though. When you run a time like that among cars that were bought/built for many times the money you can still hold your heads high.

[metalmaker12]

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/ffr-crew.jpg

It was a tough tough day at VIR for the Ultimate Track Car Challenge. I'm super proud of the team, and they fought hard all day to get the cars running fast. We just seemed to have one problem after the next. Our best lap time was a 2:04, but everyone is disappointed because the car has so much more potential. Cooling/radiator issues plagued us all day. John George drove well, and I'll have a full report Monday.

Huge thanks to FFR customer Jim Myers who loaned me his spec racer Miata so I could try out the new track surface and have a little fun while the guys were working. Racing is one of the most fun things, but it can also break your heart and today is the latter.

It was great seeing Jeff from Whitby Motorcars and a few customers who stopped by to help out.

You guys looked bummed,I know the feeling.

[bbjones121]

Sorry to hear, you guys. Maybe next year with some time to test it can kick some a.../butt. I still cant wait to hear about the parts and updates. I am flying out there to check out the factory early September before my kit is ready sep 20th. I have already planned to purchase lots of extras, but maybe there will be more options to add in my cart ;).

Anyways, sorry about today. That is a pretty sweet time for the "backup" car and it can only get better from here.

[Dave Smith]

Just walked in the door at home and spent the flight back with driver John George talking about changes to the car and ideas. It was definitely a tough day as the car was sooo fast when it was working! To give you perspective, John literally blew past the lead BMW in his group B race when the red car was working. That car ran a 1:53 and change! These were serious cars. The winning car was a new Viper that ran an insane 1:44. Last year's champ (and ex FFR challenge series driver) Victor Seabor (sp?) ran 1:46's! To know that you have a car under 2 minutes but not be able to get past some small gremlins was frustrating. We'll go to the wind tunnel and the the Glen and get this thing going.

The HIGHLIGHT of my day came from the usual place, the FFR community. FFR customer Jim Meyers loaned me his Spec Miata so I could steal some laps on the new VIR while the guys wrenched. Now I met Jim back in 2004 and 2005 at the FFR Challenge Series Nationals when we held them here at VIR. He and his wife asked about Jenny. These people are kind and generous beyond belief. They had the kindness to ask about how Jenny is doing when they lost their own daughter at age 5 to Cystic Fibrosis years ago! It gave me such perspective and reminded me again about the WHY behind Factory Five Racing.

We'll go faster in the 818R no doubt and sure the day was frustrating, but Jim reminded me WHY we do this. We build things. We build cars, but so much more. We build fellowship and stories and real genuine friendships that last years. Jim lost his 5 year old daughter Amanda ("Mandy") and he mentioned that it was an honor for him to loan me his car… Truth is that I was the one who was honored. Thanks Jim, coming off the track I had that huge post sesh smile that comes with a good fun go-out. I don't think I'm going to be changing to the "momentum" miata team any time soon, but I'll remember your kindness for a long long time. Full report and tech notes next week.

Oh yeah, and thanks Jeff for helping me out with that little speeding ticket down in Greensboro!

[bbjones121]

Thanks for the comments Dave. It is great to see the passion and love for your cars even on the bad days. I can't wait to see where FFR goes from here. ...and I can't wait to get my 818 in September!

[metalmaker12]

Very cool stuff!!!

[jimgood]

I knew the 818 was capable of a sub-two-minute time out there! Can't wait for you guys to hit that milestone.

[C.Plavan]

Brush it off, learn, and build it even better.

Can we get any motor specs on the Red 818R?

[AZPete]

If anybody is wondering why Factory Five Racing is so successful, this is a reminder that the staff, products, service, innovation, integrity and what some may call "luck" are all created and maintained by the President's attitude.

[Brando]

And many of the community that gravitates to FFR follows suit. It's one of the highlights of this entire experience...the great people you meet along the way. Dave leads a great group by example

[JAubin]

Nice work to the team, sounds like it was frustrating, but definitely shows the potential of the platform is huge! Talking to the guys there today, they said it was a Legacy GT motor that they used.

[bbjones121]

A legacy gt motor is a 2006+ wrx motor.

[Samiam1017]

I think they told me 177000 miles had time to check compression and that's it. Had to use as is.

[Mechie3]

A legacy gt motor is a 2006+ wrx motor.

They're a little different. Both are ej255 but for whatever reason the lgt uses STI pistons while the WRX uses different pistons to work with the d25 heads.

[Dave Smith]

I'll have more details to report on Monday when I get back in to FFR but the engine was originally to be a nicely built Cosworth engine (short block) but the brits were running late so we changed to a back-up plan. We bought the donor car from Christian at High Octane Photography (it was his family car with 177k miles). Still, the engine was mostly highway miles and we had all new top end turbo stuff, so we used the block and yes, the leak down showed it was still good. If you asked me, I was most worried that we'd lose a head gasket or have an engine fail but we had really run out of time and had to go with it. As it turned out, the engine ran fine but the cooling gremlins and some others kept the car from getting enough laps. After a day of licking our wounds, I'm pretty fired up to get the car back out and finished. We've got work to do on both race cars, but I'll leave that for tomorrow. Definitely I'll have all the chassis, aero, and engine/trans stuff we've done reported to you guys. I'm really looking forward to hearing how Hansen does with his electric 818 at Laguna Seca and getting back in the game with these 818R twins.

[bbjones121]

They're a little different. Both are ej255 but for whatever reason the lgt uses STI pistons while the WRX uses different pistons to work with the d25 heads.

Yes true for 05 and 06 only, right?

[EricScottZehnder]

As it turned out, the engine ran fine but the cooling gremlins and some others kept the car from getting enough laps. After a day of licking our wounds, I'm pretty fired up to get the car back out and finished. We've got work to do on both race cars, but I'll leave that for tomorrow. Definitely I'll have all the chassis, aero, and engine/trans stuff we've done reported to you guys.

Not to keep pressing, but we've heard of cooling issues across the board. Wayne Presley swears by AWIC and many are questioning if it needs some kind of larger side or top air scoops to keep the temps down. If you guys are able to work the kinks out of cooling on your test car will you offer upgrades or modifications to the stock 818S/R for customers?

Share the knowledge when you can. Good luck.

[Mechie3]

I think they meant engine cooling on this one. On stock Subaru's I've known people to have lots of trouble bleeding the system. On the 818 with the extended length lines and the ups and downs that can trap air I imagine it's harder.

[C.Plavan]

I think Wayne's "Degas Tank and Tap Tip" solves 99% of the issues of bleeding the air from the system.

[waruaki]

I think Wayne's "Degas Tank and Tap Tip" solves 99% of the issues of bleeding the air from the system.

Worked great on our build

[Mechie3]

I was thinking of the lower radiator hose up front where the hose is low for the radiator, then loops up for the steering rack clearance, then back down again. That could trap air if you're not careful.

[bbjones121]

Updates on car specs still on schedule for today?! ��

[Goldwing]

I was thinking of the lower radiator hose up front where the hose is low for the radiator, then loops up for the steering rack clearance, then back down again. That could trap air if you're not careful.

That spot concerned me too. I followed Wayne's hold/prop up the radiator up for initial burping tip with no issues so far.

[metalmaker12]

I was thinking of the lower radiator hose up front where the hose is low for the radiator, then loops up for the steering rack clearance, then back down again. That could trap air if you're not careful.

This may be an issue especially if you get a pin hole leak and or you don't get all the air out it will cause a hot spot.

Wayne's method works to get it burped, but the lower radiator hose could be an issue if things are not exactly right or get damaged during hard driving.

[sittinSideways]

Wow, the blue 818 is very fast!

[johngeorge]

http://www.johngeorgeracing.com/gallery/albums/utcc2014/IMG_7767.sized.jpg
The Ultimate Track Car Challenge is an event put on by the Grassroots Motorsports magazine as a no-holds-barred track competition aiming to find the fastest machine on four wheels. A new FFR 818R was built by the Factory Five gang with the goal of setting a flyer lap (sub 2min) at VIR during the Grassroots Motorsports UTCC 2014. This build was amazingly done in less than one month, with a 170,000mi used engine, all while being filmed by a camera crew for a possible upcoming reality tv series. Many racers will tell you racecars after getting finished need a couple of race track events to work out all of the bugs, well we didn’t have that luxury with this new Red/White FFR 818R.


We tried to do a shakedown at Limerock the Tuesday before UTCC, but things were not looking promising as at Limerock the new red/white car had overheating issues and the front brakes were toast due to a faulty front master cylinder causing the front calipers/pads to melt. Luckily we brought and ran the backup car, a well-sorted Blue/white FFR818R – the development chassis mule – which ran flawlessly running blistering fast laps in the low 56sec on old race tires at Limerock.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASRD8my82Hs

After the Limerock test the FFR crew worked most of the day Wednesday to re-plumb some bypassed hose cooling lines differently and finally got the Red/White car to not overheat. We were all hopeful that getting the Red/white car’s cooling system working would be the end of our issues. New brakes were ordered from Wilwood sent directly to the hotel we would be staying at in Virginia. So the FFR crew including Jim, Tony, tuner Freddi, and tv producer/camera guy Adam loaded up both cars and started heading for VIR the plan to drive down past NYC on Wednesday, and complete the journey to VIR on Thursday ready for track activity on Friday.

Friday AM at VIR brought perfect weather for running a fast lap, mid 80's all day. The schedule of the day had warmup then followed by 3 timed track sessions to set a flyer of a lap.

Taking the red/white car out in warmup had me getting familiar with the new car on the VIR track surface. The car did not overheat!! Handling felt extremely neutral with gobs of grip everywhere and very good aero balance from start. The aggressive front splitter / canards balanced out the new rear wing design and aggressive diffuser. I even got it a little sideways exiting out onto the front straight, and the aero bits quickly helped me straiten the car out without much fuss. I can work with this car! As part of the warmup shakedown I found a couple of bugs, the RPMs not being consistent on the Racepak's Data Logger Dash having me shift early not wanting to over-rev the car. The shifter was a little vague not knowing which gear I was in, and often mis-shifting from 3rd to 6th instead of what I wanted 3rd to 4th. After the session the crew quickly got to work on spacing out the shifting problem by adjusting the shift-cables while I re-routed the RPM wire to reduce the interference on the display and set the smoothing factor on the RPM input to be greate. Freddi applied a new ECU tune after looking at the Racepak data and promptly informed me to shift at 7000RPM!! not 5500RPM. All these changes had us feeling good about the car, and set out for the first timed session with high hopes.

The first timed session started under pacecar, but had to do an extra lap to allow the safety workers ample time to remove a strickened Corvette from the track surface. When we finally went green, I pressed on the gas pedal and ohh my, the car is a rocket! from 4500rpm to 7000rpm it took off! Shifting from 4th to 5th to 6th, very impressive acceleration. I started 2nd behind this very fast BMW with 700HP and promptly passed him going into turn 1. Late on the brakes, they slowed me down quickly making the turn without issue, then proceeding to start my fastlap. Unfortunately coming out of turn 5 I see water spraying on the small windshield! looking down at the water temp I see it still at 200deg, no cause for overheating but the water spraying is not good at all. I quickly pulled off the racing surface just after the bridge waiting for the tow truck to come tow me in. Back in the paddoc the crew quickly jumped on the car, a bad radiator cap was determined to be the culprit and swapped it for a new one, bled the cooling system of air ready for the second timed track session.

Second timed session had me start the flying lap as usual, running great through the early part of the lap, flying up through the up-hill esses and into the old oak tree turn 10 when once again, spray on the windshield! ohh no! pulling off in the south paddock pitlane waited to get towed back to our paddock area. Talking it over with the crew we decided the red/white car is hurt beyond repair with a blown headgasket, its time for the backup car the last session of the day.

The third timed session started with me at the back of the pact as grid was based on the fastlap from previous sessions. Being mired in traffic is not that concerning but would make setting a fast lap early in the session very difficult. First lap working through traffic ran a 2:10 lap, not bad.. Time to get on with the program! I caught the exocet car going into the uphill esses (turns 7-9), holding me up all the way through oak tree turn 12, finally able to pass him on the back straight. The Racepak display has this neat predictive lap feature where it tells you, in real time, + or - in seconds based on your last fast lap, when I saw -5.5sec faster I was feeling good about the lap. 2:04.1, better, but not what the car can do. Time to focus! maximize braking into turn one, get a good exit powering out of turn 2. Suddenly the car gets a little squirmy, I catch it, then heading into turn 3 I spin! going off-track. As I get back on the racing surface I smell something and see smoke coming from the rear of the car. I drive through turns 4-5 and at turn 6 flag station I stop right in front. Steam/smoke now engulfing the cockpit I jump out of the car heading for the corner station. Thinking to my self, really? Is this happening? the Blue car worked flawlessly at Limerock, it is well sorted, had no issues in the past whatsoever! finally the safety crew come by, I help them take the rear decklid off the car, the smoke diagnosed as steam from coolant dripping on the hot exhaust manifold, nothing serious at all. But once again getting towed back into the pits the UTCC done and over with. 2 broken cars, massive disappointment by everyone. It turns out, the radiator cap on the blue car was not tightened allowing coolant past the cap dripping on the exhaust..

Such a difficult Friday track event to swallow, the FFR 818R has such potential with not much result to show. FFR will get a new engine into the red car, get all the bugs worked out, and we will take it to WatkinsGlen end of September.

I'd like to thank Dave Smith and Jim Schenck for having me be their test driver in this frustrating race day. I have full confidence we will get the bugs worked out and set ridiculously fast times in both cars no mater the track.

Pics: http://www.johngeorgeracing.com/gallery/utcc2014

[johngeorge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqF1lYwiMwA

[FFRSpec72]

John, very nice but seems way smoother than the challenge car, seems tame

[kabacj]

Great job guys. As anyone who has built a race car will tell you laying down record times out of the box is very difficult. There are so many little things that crop up under track conditions that would never be an issue on the street.

Im still sorting my GTM after a two year build and a year on the track. The fact that you guys put down such fast times after a one month build and one track day is amazing.

As usual great driving John. For the folks that have not driven Lime Rock a 1.56.28 would put you in the top three fastest cars at the track in any class on a typical NASA race weekend. The lens looks a little misty so conditions were not even ideal. At Lime Rock any off track excursions are very expensive as there is little or no run off.

I can't wait to see the 818 on the track at Watkins Glenn. I expect lots of surprised racers.

John

[johngeorge]

John, very nice but seems way smoother than the challenge car, seems tame

Hah Tony! I do believe it's called downforce, along with gobs of grip which our challenge cars on toyo rr tires lack :)

[SkiRideDrive]

Thanks for the update. Looks like the curbing and blend lines at VIR have been improved since the last time I have been there.

[BrandonDrums]

Oh yeah, and thanks Jeff for helping me out with that little speeding ticket down in Greensboro!

I grew up in Greensboro, my dad still lives there and knows some good Crooked lawyers down there lol.