Alternate rivnuts

[tmoretta]

A while back someone posted a suggestion for a smaller rivnut to use to mount body panels to frame. They said that the FFR supplied 1/4 20 rivnuts were a little too thick and would cause larger panel gaps. I can't recall/find what size was suggested. Anyone remember?

[Mechie3]

It was me. I used some 10-32 rivnuts.

http://www.rivetsonline.com/

Ribbed "K" Series Rivet Nuts - RN1032130SKR
Options: Box Size: 100 piece box 1$7.60

Ribbed "L" Series Rivet Nuts - RN1032130SLR
Options: Box Size: 100 piece box 1$8.53

[tmoretta]

Great thanks so much. How about a source fir the 10 32 bolts and riv nut tool for that size?

[Mechie3]

I bought this at menards. Same design as the harbor freight tool. HF tool broke. The menards tool used a thicker gauge material that has held up quite well.

http://www.amazon.com/Surebonder-8510-10-24-Threaded-Insert/dp/B0003J2B5A

Bought boxes of bolts from mcmaster.com

[Kurk818]

I wasnt able to put in more than 8 rivnuts with that tool before it failed on me. The two points on either side of the tumbler are mild steel and quickly indent and spread the housing open. Looking for a good alternative.

[FFRSpec72]

I also still have not found the perfect rivnut tool, my guess is that I would hve to spend $300 to get one that lasts and actually works as designed. In the meanwhile I have been using this one which works fine http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004KLVJAA/ref=pe_385040_30332190_TE_M3T1_ST1_dp_1

[Mechie3]

I wasnt able to put in more than 8 rivnuts with that tool before it failed on me. The two points on either side of the tumbler are mild steel and quickly indent and spread the housing open. Looking for a good alternative.

The exact same one? My HF one failed in that manner, but I haven't been able to breake the sure bonder one. I think I've set about 40 rivnuts with it so far? I did noticed that it's important to set the stop. I actually ended up stripping out a rivnut. I was trying to get it extra set and it just ripped right through. Explains why it was soo hard to squeeze.

[Boog]

It will be a little slower, but I've been looking at this one: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/rivetnuttool.php

It looks like it can get in much tighter places since the drive/pulling mechanism is at a right angle to the axis of the rivnut. It should also let me use an impact driver instead of my puny muscles and replacement shanks are basically just buying a new grade 8 or class 12.9 bolt.

[esff32]

31431

I have this rivnut tool and have installed hundreds. You have to buy the correct adapter for each size but it works amazing. I have never had one problem with this style tool. All the others I have used failed after less than 20.

Evan

[flynntuna]

Anyone have any experience with this tool?

www.hansonrivet.com

[Bob_n_Cincy]

After having no luck with the cheap rivnut tools I have been using this rivnut tool. up through 5/16 bolts.
It is about 5 minutes to change the size. Other than that it works great. $67
Bob

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003TODXQW/ref=pe_385040_30332200_TE_item

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33947&d=1411702178

[Sgt.Gator]

+1 on the Astro Pneumatic Tool 1442 rivnut tool.. They have great customer support. I bought the Astro Pneumatic PR14 Air Riveter which is a great rivet tool and thought it didn't come with all the parts. I emailed Astro and a support person emailed back within an hour pointing out where the parts were (on the bottom of the tool!) .

Both tools work great and are much better quality than anything at HF.

Rivnuts are still awful though....

[TahoeTim]

I'm not at that stage yet. Do the rivnuts go into square tubing? If so, you can drill a larger hole in the top of the tube and mount riv nut in the bottom (inside the tube) to give you a flat surface to mount the body panel with longer bolts.

[billjr212]

What are people's thoughts on steel vs aluminum rivnuts? I was initially thinking aluminum, consistent with the rivets generally provided by FFR, but Mechie, you have specified steel with your part numbers.

[Mechie3]

I don't think the weight added is that much. A box weighs 1/2 lb or so (guessing). They're much less likely to strip out and/or gall. I've had trouble getting rivnuts to always compress evenly. Tool position is very important. A little bit of angle makes it even easier for them to strip out.

[billjr212]

i wasn't thinking about weight, but rather corrosion resistance balanced against the risk of stripping/galling as you mentioned. I was also thinking that aluminum rivnuts would be much easier to set and less likely to break an inexpensive rivnut setting tool.

[FFRSpec72]

Where I'm not in a blind spot I have moved on to nut plates as I don't get the spin issue and if I strip threads I can just replace the thread insert and be on my way, my goal is not to use any rivnuts on this car, as I learned my lesson on the challenge car where I used too many of them. Also the majority of affordable rivnut tools suck.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Where I'm not in a blind spot I have moved on to nut plates as I don't get the spin issue and if I strip threads I can just replace the thread insert and be on my way, my goal is not to use any rivnuts on this car, as I learned my lesson on the challenge car where I used too many of them. Also the majority of affordable rivnut tools suck.

Interesting comment Tony,
I have not used a pop rivet yet.
All my sheet metal. Drill 1/8"hole. M4 tap (with same drill), Glue, M4 SS screw (with same drill).
On anything bigger I have been using CAD plated steel rivnuts.
Next up Rear Firewall 1/4-20 rivnuts,
Then 5/16-18 rivnuts to mount seats
Can you give me a part number on these nut plates you are using. I'm not that familiar with them.
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

All my sheet metal. Drill 1/8"hole. M4 tap (with same drill), Glue, M4 SS screw (with same drill).


I did this on my challenge car and glad I did, I will do it on the 818 also.

I use "floating nut plates", here is a link to the various types of nut plates, seems they are used quite extensively on aircraft, as some of the Boeing folks stop out to lo and help and they suggested them to me, so far I like them.

http://www.aircraftfast.com/aircraft_nut_plates.htm

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I did this on my challenge car and glad I did, I will do it on the 818 also.

I use "floating nut plates", here is a link to the various types of nut plates, seems they are used quite extensively on aircraft, as some of the Boeing folks stop out to lo and help and they suggested them to me, so far I like them.

http://www.aircraftfast.com/aircraft_nut_plates.htm

If your using these on tubes. Be careful not to crush the tube when tightening.
Bob

[Hindsight]

How do nut plates work? Do you have to drill a big hole to clear the back side of the nut plate, then drill smaller holes around it to rivet or screw the nut plate in place?

[FFRSpec72]

How do nut plates work? Do you have to drill a big hole to clear the back side of the nut plate, then drill smaller holes around it to rivet or screw the nut plate in place?

Hole goes all the way through, so I have been using either 1/4 or 10/32 screws, so I drill the hole all the way through, run the screw through the attach the nut plate to the end and then rivet the nut plate in place with 3/32 blind rivets

[Hindsight]

Sorry, I'm a little dense on this one..... I checked out youtube and it looks like when people do this, they are attaching the nut plate to the back side of the panel. So I assume when you say "hole goes all the way through", you are saying the hole goes through both sides of the square frame tubing, and the nut plate mounts to the BACK side of the tubing? This is the way I see it done on youtube, but there they are installing them on the back side of thin sheet metal instead of square tubing. If mounting it to the back of tubing, it seems not ideal to have so much space between the part you are fastening and where the bolt starts threading into the nut (unless I'm understanding incorrectly and you are mounting the nut plate to the front side of the tubing).

[FFRSpec72]

Sorry, I'm a little dense on this one..... I checked out youtube and it looks like when people do this, they are attaching the nut plate to the back side of the panel. So I assume when you say "hole goes all the way through", you are saying the hole goes through both sides of the square frame tubing, and the nut plate mounts to the BACK side of the tubing? This is the way I see it done on youtube, but there they are installing them on the back side of thin sheet metal instead of square tubing. If mounting it to the back of tubing, it seems not ideal to have so much space between the part you are fastening and where the bolt starts threading into the nut (unless I'm understanding incorrectly and you are mounting the nut plate to the front side of the tubing).

So here is a picture of the rear of my rear firewall (between engine and fuel cell), the hole goes through the 2" square tube and nut plate is attached to back side of 2" square tube. I use nut plates where I would use a rivnut (you can't use nut plates in a blind situation whereas you can a rivnut)

33963

[Jaime]

I've given up on rivnut tools, but not rivnuts. I use a grade 8 bolt and nut, a washer, and a three foot strip of 1/8" steel with a hole drilled near the end. Thread the nut on the bolt, add a washer, stick it through the hole in the steel, then thread a rivnut on the threads poking through the steel. Put the rivnut in the hole and hold the bolt with a socket while compressing the rivnut by tightening the nut with a box end wrench.

It's very similar to the method mentioned in the manual, but with a longer piece of steel. The steel almost always wedges itself somewhere, otherwise stick out a knee or elbow to restrain it (or clamp it). This frees a hand to give you more control of the bolt.

Since I've gone to this method, all of my rivnuts have seated tight and I don't have any spinning problems. I do have to replace the nut and washer occasionally, but that's a minor expense.

[Hindsight]

....the hole goes through the 2" square tube and nut plate is attached to back side of 2" square tube.

Ok I got it thank you! So you don't think there is any issue with lateral loads causing loosening or shifting of what you are mounting due to the length of the unsupported distance of the bolt that threads into the nut all the way at the back side of that square tubing?

http://i.imgur.com/L9ybC08.png

[FFRSpec72]

Ok I got it thank you! So you don't think there is any issue with lateral loads causing loosening or shifting of what you are mounting due to the length of the unsupported distance of the bolt that threads into the nut all the way at the back side of that square tubing?


No since the rivnut actually does not allow surface to surface contact (since you have the thickness of the rivnut flange), I get surface to surface and the ability to draw longer thread lengths than the rivnut

[Hindsight]

Ah ok thank you

[flynntuna]

Interesting comment Tony,
I have not used a pop rivet yet.
All my sheet metal. Drill 1/8"hole. M4 tap (with same drill), Glue, M4 SS screw (with same drill).
On anything bigger I have been using CAD plated steel rivnuts.
Next up Rear Firewall 1/4-20 rivnuts,
Then 5/16-18 rivnuts to mount seats
Can you give me a part number on these nut plates you are using. I'm not that familiar with them.
Bob


Is this something like your using?

[flynntuna]

I've given up on rivnut tools, but not rivnuts. I use a grade 8 bolt and nut, a washer, and a three foot strip of 1/8" steel with a hole drilled near the end. Thread the nut on the bolt, add a washer, stick it through the hole in the steel, then thread a rivnut on the threads poking through the steel. Put the rivnut in the hole and hold the bolt with a socket while compressing the rivnut by tightening the nut with a box end wrench.

It's very similar to the method mentioned in the manual, but with a longer piece of steel. The steel almost always wedges itself somewhere, otherwise stick out a knee or elbow to restrain it (or clamp it). This frees a hand to give you more control of the bolt.

Since I've gone to this method, all of my rivnuts have seated tight and I don't have any spinning problems. I do have to replace the nut and washer occasionally, but that's a minor expense.

Like this?


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tA9fB3asSZU

[Jaime]

Sort of, but I turn the nut instead of the bolt. If you turn the bolt, then it sometimes just rotates the rivnut. The guy in the video didn't use a nut.

[flynntuna]

It looks like he taped the steel instead of using a nut. Your method allows for different size rive-nuts right? Does the hole in the steel to be sized for the bolt?

[Jaime]

I drilled a 1/4" hole on one end and a 3/16" hole on the other. Those are the only two sizes I've used. You could get away with some slop, but it's easier to keep the bolt straight if the hole is the right size.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Is this something like your using?
The drill/taps are cool.
I just use separate drills, taps, allen bits.
Bob

[Scargo]

Mechie3 mentioned ribbed rivet nuts but no one mentioned them being superior. Is it a given that everyone uses only ribbed ones? Seems I got non-ribbed ones initially in a kit and they have been less than satisfactory.
I found these ribbed "L" 1/4-20's on Amazon (http://smile.amazon.com/Ribbed-Series-Rivet-Nuts-Steel-Yellow/dp/B008VGVCPC/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top).
Do L style, with their bigger, beefier rim, or collar, hold better than the thinner "K" or do they work equally well if all else is equal?