Help with purchasing used FFR Cobra

[FLPonyBoy]

Hello Everyone!

This is my first post to this particular forum. I tried searching a little on this subject, but I could not find a sticky that covers this topic (maybe something to consider!).

I am currently considering buying a local FFR Cobra, but I have no idea how to haggle on this car, or what exactly I should be looking for to determine an accurate and fair value.

Here is a link to the specific car: http://idealclassiccars.net/view/2282/Blue-1967-Shelby-Cobra-in-Venice-FL

The reason I am considering a Cobra is to have a fun track day or autocross car. That being said, I am not looking for something with a LOT of power, but primarily something that is light with a long list of aftermarket parts and support. To me, that restricts me to a 302 or similar motor (like this car). Another pro for this car is the interior, or lack there of. I don't need leather everything, nice carpet and a radio when I am wearing a race suit and helmet.

Now, some manufacturers take the "less is more" approach and charge big bucks, i.e. a Porsche GT3 or similar. However, with this particular Cobra (and maybe any kit car) less just seems to be less. There was not extra cost associated with not putting an interior or covering the dash in some kind of nice material. This, instead, saved whoever built this car time and money.

Additionally, I noticed this car has not been converted from 4 to 5-lug brakes. Does that have any impact on value? I am assuming a large majority of builders on this site used a Fox body as a donor. Is it more common to see the conversion done to have rear disc brakes? Can any value be put on a car based on how many parts came directly off the donor car? If the entire drivetrain, suspension, etc., came from an old Mustang, it should be worth less than another car that was built using newer, or upgraded parts. Or at least that is what seems logical.

What other things on the car should I look for? Being a kit car, I am assuming one can tell a lot by how well the doors/panels fit. Are there any "tricky" areas that can be a challenge to finish well? In other words, are there areas where you can tell if someone took shortcuts or if they really took their time, which could translate over the remainder of the car.

I currently own a 1970 Mustang and a 2007 Shelby, and I am familiar with both, but I have little knowledge of the old 5.0. Any advice on what to look for here? The seller may have records of parts that were installed, but I will still dive under the hood to look for leaks or indicators of excessive wear. At least a list might tell me if belts, gaskets, etc. had been changed recently.

Please give me any advice you have!!!!!

Thanks for your time!
-Scott

[Garry Bopp]

Scott,

I'm more familiar with the coupe but have owned a Mk3 in the past. Several things that I noticed: 1) Goodyear tires on the front, Mickey Thompson on the back ... not a good idea to mix different brands/types of tires between front and rear. 2) The front "quick jack brackets" are missing ... they are installed on the rear, though 3) Those seats are aftermarket but pretty nice looking ... they appear to have some side bolstering but you would need a more supportive seat for serious track time.

Overall, the car looks pretty nice in the pictures but I would certainly not buy this car without laying eyes on it in person. The engine compartment looks pretty much like a full donor setup. There are several different rear suspension options available on the Factory 5 cars. The full donor would use the 4 link setup from the Mustang with coil springs cut down to fit ... this is the least expensive option and the least optimum for handling if you want to track/autocross the car. One step up from this is still the 4 link setup but using coilover shocks to replace the stock shocks and coil springs. The most popular suspension is the 3 link, which does quite well on the racetrack and is relatively easy to tune/setup for track purposes. The most expensive option is Independent Rear Suspension (IRS). This gives a superior ride with excellent handling but is more complex to tune/setup for track use. It also adds quite a bit to resale value. As far as front suspension, a full donor car will use the Mustang lower control arm. A full donor might also have drum brakes on the rear ... not great if you plan to track/autocross the car. Another feature you would like to have for autocross is power steering so look for that also. Another consideration for doing track time ... most instructors will not ride in a car without a roll bar on the passenger side.

I think that based on the content I can see from the pictures, the price seems a little on the high side ... however, I can't see what the suspension pieces look like. If it has IRS suspension and disc brakes all around, the price might be pretty close. Fit and finish appear very good in the pictures. How many miles on the car and how many miles on the donor engine?

That's all I can think of for now. Hopefully some others will chime in as well.

Garry

[billjr212]

There is a sticky on the subject here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?568-FAQ-How-to-buy-a-used-Cobra

[skullandbones]

Hi billju212,

I agree that is something that hardly anybody does any more: a complete donor build. The fox running gear is OK but most people upgrade to something better and usually for not that much money (especially during the special sales). You would have to go to 5 lug and discs in the rear. I wouldn't expect anything special if you see it in person. Therefore, it's most likely over priced. You can do better by shopping around. When you see an upgraded version, it will make a lot more sense to you. BTW: you might find a roadster at the other end of the spectrum with premium aftermarket components. In that case, the value is easier to see along with a higher sticker price. Good luck,

WEK.

[Jeff Kleiner]

That is an old car. It is a nice looking car with a unique windscreen but an old one none the less. The flat floors, door hinges and straight trunk bar tag it as an early Mk1, probably 1999 or earlier. The engine is pure Mustang donor 5.0, no mention of a rebuild. Donor gauges. Four lugs pretty much guarantee a straight axle, most likely with drums in back. No suspension photos or mention in the text but given the other donor components I'd bet it's a 4 link using Mustang coils and control arms. None of this makes it a bad car, but if you are anticipating some autocross and track duty you'd probably want to make some upgrades/updates. Straight up, in today's market it isn't a $35,000 car; low $20K range at best.

Good luck,
Jeff

[MPTech]

Also, no hood hinges (may be preferred if you are primarily tracking, but a PITA for a daily driver. Need to remove and store the hood somewhere).

[mrmustang]

MK I FFR, sure some custom items, , however a by the book, donor build, but not worth more than $20,000-$22,000 tops as it sits today. 4 link rear with stock mustang coil overs, no hood hinge, no heater, no wipers, donor gauges, $49.95 plastic Summit race style seats. If you are evening thinking of spending close to 35K on a car, this is not the one.


Sorry


Bill S.




Hello Everyone!

This is my first post to this particular forum. I tried searching a little on this subject, but I could not find a sticky that covers this topic (maybe something to consider!).

I am currently considering buying a local FFR Cobra, but I have no idea how to haggle on this car, or what exactly I should be looking for to determine an accurate and fair value.

Here is a link to the specific car: http://idealclassiccars.net/view/2282/Blue-1967-Shelby-Cobra-in-Venice-FL

The reason I am considering a Cobra is to have a fun track day or autocross car. That being said, I am not looking for something with a LOT of power, but primarily something that is light with a long list of aftermarket parts and support. To me, that restricts me to a 302 or similar motor (like this car). Another pro for this car is the interior, or lack there of. I don't need leather everything, nice carpet and a radio when I am wearing a race suit and helmet.

Now, some manufacturers take the "less is more" approach and charge big bucks, i.e. a Porsche GT3 or similar. However, with this particular Cobra (and maybe any kit car) less just seems to be less. There was not extra cost associated with not putting an interior or covering the dash in some kind of nice material. This, instead, saved whoever built this car time and money.

Additionally, I noticed this car has not been converted from 4 to 5-lug brakes. Does that have any impact on value? I am assuming a large majority of builders on this site used a Fox body as a donor. Is it more common to see the conversion done to have rear disc brakes? Can any value be put on a car based on how many parts came directly off the donor car? If the entire drivetrain, suspension, etc., came from an old Mustang, it should be worth less than another car that was built using newer, or upgraded parts. Or at least that is what seems logical.

What other things on the car should I look for? Being a kit car, I am assuming one can tell a lot by how well the doors/panels fit. Are there any "tricky" areas that can be a challenge to finish well? In other words, are there areas where you can tell if someone took shortcuts or if they really took their time, which could translate over the remainder of the car.

I currently own a 1970 Mustang and a 2007 Shelby, and I am familiar with both, but I have little knowledge of the old 5.0. Any advice on what to look for here? The seller may have records of parts that were installed, but I will still dive under the hood to look for leaks or indicators of excessive wear. At least a list might tell me if belts, gaskets, etc. had been changed recently.

Please give me any advice you have!!!!!

Thanks for your time!
-Scott

[edwardb]

I can't add much to what others have posted. You are getting advice from people who know, FWIW. Agreed that's way overpriced for the current market. You can do much better. There are typically several cars for sale on this site, more on FFCars.com, and then other channels like ClubCobra and eBay. At the very least, spend some time looking at what's on the market and the kind of prices they appear to be going for. You will get the idea. Granted they may not be local and you would have to have them shipped. But would be worth it. There are lots of guys on this and the other forum who will check out a car in person for you if you ask.

Couple of other comments. That windshield may look cool and all (I guess) but that car will beat you up. For me that would get old real fast. Even with a full windshield, wind wings, visors, etc. it's a pretty breezy ride. Kind of the same feeling about the all metal "handcrafted aluminum" (love the marketing-speak) interior. That would get old fast as well. Kind of back-to-basics and race car like, but a little carpet quiets things down and just makes it all more civilized. Finally, you make several comments in your post about "donor build" like this is the norm. It used to be, but not so much any more. Certainly that's the roots of FFR but not nearly so much now. As the Mustang donor pool has aged and those that remain are more desirable, that route is used less and less. I don't have actual data, but just based on observation many builds are not using donors any more. So most parts tend to be new and in many cases upgrades from the original Mustang parts. Newer for sale cars you see will likely show this as well.

[UpstateCobraGuy]

Listen to MrMustang, he knows these cars. Sounds like you are in the market for a spec racer. Not a Doctored up Mark I, much better cars out there for that kind of money.

Pat

[MPTech]

Are you thinking 90% track & 10% street cruiser?
or 10% track & 90% street cruiser?

My opinion is: those are 2 different builds.

If you want a track car, look for a Challenge car that was built for the track, full roll-cage, easily removable body, purpose built, track-quality parts, suspension, tires, gauges, steering wheel, trans, etc. AND Safety! (brakes, fuel system, cooling system, seats, protection, safety belts, etc)

This car looks nice and I respect the build, but looks like a compromise of track & street.

[JoeT]

for 35K I'll include shipping of my Mk3 non donor IRS 351w car with 8000 miles to florida for you...


too much for that car.

[Movieman]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?13484-Mark-3-1-Turbo-408W-The-Green-Lantern-price-reduced

Or that for $37,000.00

MUCH more bang for your buck!

[skullandbones]

Scott,

You may have seen this one. It's a clean slate. That is, you could put your own paint job and at that price still come out well. Definitely a better value than the one you are considering.


1965 Factory Five Mark III Roadster #6050 For Sale - built/registered in gel coat (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15109-1965-Factory-Five-Mark-III-Roadster-6050-For-Sale-built-registered-in-gel-coat)