What would you like to see in the 818?

[Slaughter]

First off - thanks for the welcome to the forums .... really pumped for the 818!

I decided to edit this post to help the F5R guys to have a go-to place of our wish list for the 818. Because this is a wish list - we should not expect every wish to be granted, this is just a place to share ideas and for F5R to get some design ideas.

We would like:

Exterior:

A high quality diffuser - Difflow makes really good diffusers for Lotus', and saying that the 818 looks to be very similar to a lotus, it would be nice to see a partnership between F5 and Difflow. [Does not have to be part of kit - optional extra]

A under tray

Suicide doors. [PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE]

Doors that open up at an angle like the Aston Martin rapide - helps with curb clearance [Note - we do NOT want lambo doors]

A unique exhaust port location

For the top - I would like something like the Pontiac Solstice top ( See 4:20 of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeRUTkko9Ik )

HID's and LED running lights [Does not have to be part of kit - optional extra]

Active rear air brake

Removeable/stowable top [soft top to save weight]

We do NOT want a mini GTM

Interior:

Interior that matches exterior

Professional, to not be filled with half-done, half-though out fluff. - [I think that would be easy, saying FFR made their name in kit cars that do not look like kit cars]

Good seats [optional extra?]

Excellent Visibility



Thoughts? Lets hear them!

Eric Slaughter.

[thebeerbaron]

one thing:

me

[bromikl]

1) A high quality diffuser

2) Suicide doors. oh yeah.

Eric Slaughter.

1) Yes, and 2) yes.

3) an active rear air brake

Yeah. That's all I want...

...

And a pony...

...

No - not a pony. 498 twin turbocharged ponies.

Yeah. That should do it.

[bbjones121]

a unique exhaust port location
and has to have HID's...LED running lights would be nice

[BrandonDrums]

Aside from the whole targa top thing, I'd love to see doors that open up at an angle like the Aston Martin rapide. In a car this low to the ground it might be beneficial to have some thing that swings up while it swings out to clear the curbs.

It would also be more ergonomic and with a simple spring loaded ball clutch like you see on French style pantry doors in apartments and such on a simple metal track, it could easily be done so the door stays open. Of course we'd need a cooler looking one though.

http://www.hardwaresource.com/images/products/316150-lg.jpg

[Niburu]

I would like to see a street legal version.

[bbjones121]

I would like to see a street legal version.

It better be or most people will not buy it.

[mn_vette]

#1 on my wish list is a top that is rain proof with a windshield wiper. It doesn't have to be car wash proof.

Next on my list would be some kind of trunk space and maybe lift up doors like the ultima. Oh, and an exhaust that doesn't wake my neighbors up when I go to work in the morning.

[bbjones121]

-Removeable/stowable top
-Grocery bag space (you always need this when the boss cal
-A cup holder (my wife and I can share)
-Basic stereo (I will find somewhere for a tiny sub)
-Insurance and registration
-Built in Escort radar detector (possibly laser shifter as well)
-IR headlamps and night vision heads-up display (just kidding, I am done)

[PhyrraM]

First and formost - To look professional, to not be filled with half-done, half-though out fluff.

Long distance seats.

Normal doors. 'Slightly up' Aston type doors are OK. No gull wings, suicide, lambo, etc...

A dash that doesn't look racecar. If the exterior styling is modern, the interior should be somewhat modern. If the exterior is period, then the interior can be period. Doesn't have to be a finished dash, but the shapes and styles need to be done right so I can finish the job properly.

If it has a top, make it well done - or leave it off altogether. Same with side windows, decent job or not at all.

I do NOT want a mini GTM.

[crackedcornish]

I'd like...

-a main chassis set up with sub frames, to make repairing any damage easier. Could also have aluminum sub frames available as an option for those that want to go superlight

-a body that is also modular for easy repairs of damage and to make swapping different colors of body panels easy, sorta like dirt bikes can

-room for a 6cyl....probably won't go that way, but the option would be nice to have

-room for some serious rubber...think street legal kart like handling

[mn_vette]

I do NOT want a mini GTM.

So what exactly makes up a mini GTM? So far we have a smaller chassis with a mid mounted engine. Could we have a bit more clarification on this one please?

[David Budd]

What I would really like to see would be a minimally updated body loosely based on a flared California Speedster design. This was based on a 1957 Porsche Speedster rear engined vehicle which would presumably greatly benefit from a Factory Five mid-engined chassis with up-rated brakes and Subaru power/transaxle. I believe that the wheelbase was about correct for the design specs. I am not too enthusiastic about any of the ultra modern designs displayed so far. They may look cool today, but will they last as classic designs?

[PhyrraM]

So what exactly makes up a mini GTM? So far we have a smaller chassis with a mid mounted engine. Could we have a bit more clarification on this one please?

A mini GTM is a exotic looking car with a focus on top speed and low slung styling. A mini GTM is a car with Ferrari and Lamborghini in it's gunsights. A mini GTM is tied to the words "Faster than a........but a lot cheaper."

The 818 should (IMHO, of course) have it's focus not high speed racetrack handling, but everyday usable, tossable, fun all the time handling. It should be fairly easy to get into and out of. It should have a look all it's own, retro or modern. It should not immediately draw comparisions to anything $100K+. It should not leave you wanting for more power, just leave you wanting more.

[mn_vette]

A mini GTM is a exotic looking car with a focus on top speed and low slung styling. A mini GTM is a car with Ferrari and Lamborghini in it's gunsights. A mini GTM is tied to the words "Faster than a........but a lot cheaper."

The 818 should (IMHO, of course) have it's focus not high speed racetrack handling, but everyday usable, tossable, fun all the time handling. It should be fairly easy to get into and out of. It should have a look all it's own, retro or modern. It should not immediately draw comparisions to anything $100K+. It should not leave you wanting for more power, just leave you wanting more.

Ok, From this point of view I would agree 100%. Although I wouldn't mind it if this car would beat the Ferrari 0-60.

As far as looks go, I'm hoping that this thing isn't mistaken for anything. I want people to see it and say "Wow, what the heck was that?".

[crackedcornish]

I'd also like a car with excellent visibility...makes zipping in and out of traffic, and parking, a lot easier (especially if you can actually see out of the back of the thing)

[PhyrraM]

..... I want people to see it and say "Wow, what the heck was that?".

Yeah. Exactly.

Instead of using "but it's a kit" as an apology for derivitive, can never live up to the established styling I want to use "It's a kit!" as sledgehammer to the forehead of an unbelieving Mustang/370Z/Miata/Elise?/(name your poison) buyer.

[Niburu]

Yeah. Exactly.

Instead of using "but it's a kit" as an apology for derivitive, can never live up to the established styling I want to use "It's a kit!" as sledgehammer to the forehead of an unbelieving Mustang/370Z/Miata/Elise?/(name your poison) buyer.

I was planning on saying something like, "it's a Factory Five 818, I built it myself!" and then rambling on about all the FFR history for about a half or so, or until their eyes glaze over

[picaman]

Hi all first post here long time fan of factory 5 and the kit scene. I have always loved the 550 spyder kits and annually e-mail Toyota to request they bring back the MR2. I was overjoyed when I learned about the 818.

So I agree with the posters that advocate for something that looks like nothing else unfortunately the Smyth Performance car looks a bit too honda/mazdaish for my tastes.

I love the long hood of the old Jag E types, and the curves of the old Ferrari 250s and the Porsche 550s. But, I do like most of the more modern angular designs as well the door/QP cut of the new camaro just blows me away. Anyway my wish list is:

1. Removable hard top (either retractable or fold-able/on-board stowable)
2. Integrated/hidden roll bar(s)
3. Heating, air, retractable windows
4. Decent storage, enough for a weekend outing.
5. A nice padded OEM-looking dash, that could be recovered but does not NEED to be.
6. Cup holders, glasses holders, map holders, how about a little table/map holder thing that could be pulled out of the dash that the passenger could use for rallys, etc.
7. Helmet storage.
8. Other engine options?
9. Glass, real glass not plexi.

That's it for now.... I am really excited!

[Niburu]

7. Helmet storage.

this

[Cooluser23]

Hi Eric, thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth! :)

My wishlist: (in no particular order)
1) Doors that open up at an angle like Aston Martin type doors. (I'm tired of scraping doors on curbs.)
1a) If you make doors similar to the new McLaren Mp4-12c I'm okay with it too. - Just make it interesting. (if the car is special, the doors should open special. - it's why exotic cars have fancy doors)
2) Exotic styling with a full aerodynamic body. (If I wanted a Lotus 7, or Ariel Atom, I'd buy one)
3) Some sort of Top. (hard top, removable hardtop, doesn't matter)
4) Usable trunk space. - I'd like to travel with the car, and carry supplies for a track day IN the car, but not the cabin.
5) short overhangs. (I'm tired of scraping the front end of a car on driveways/speedbumps)
6) Nice interior. (if the car will have Targa type top, people will look at the interior - they should not be disappointed)
7) A way to be able to register the car in California. (It should be able to meet SB100 requirements. -headlights, taillights, SMOG, etc.)
8) option to use Hella 90mm, or 60mm lights, so owners can choose to get HID/Xenon lights.
9) an option to fit Racing/Sports seats (Recaro, Sparco, Cobra Misano, etc.)
10) Interior dimensions that fit 2 (or 3) people comfortably.
11) an option to fit HVAC, vents, radio, A/C etc. (not all customers may want this, but I would like not to sweat on my way to/from work in 100* weather in California)
12) NO "RETRO" STYLING. (I wasn't alive in the '60's and I would like a car for my generation. FFR builds enough "retro" kits. Make this kit look modern)
13) A design language that brings attention to the car being MID-ENGINED. (So I don't need crazy long hoods I can't see over, or hood scoops, or large rear overhangs.)
13a) It would be nice if the engine in the back were visible under glass/plexi/lexan/acrylic/etc. (If most modern exotics show off the engine, so should we)

This car should not feel cheap, or scream "Kit Car". I would like to be able to be proud of having a kit car, and not having to make excuses/apologies for it.

[f31monkey]

1. Provisions for brake cooling.
2. Hard top (removable or fixed)
3. Windshield wiper(s)
4. Clearance for reasonably sized wheels/tires (i.e. nothing larger than 18's, maybe something around 275mm in the rear...
5. Modern, clean lines, that is all I ask...
P.S. I have all my faith in the Factory Five crew to deliver an outstanding car no matter what their choices... And hopefully everyone understands you can't please the whole crowd damnit!

[Ks2]

in response to cooluser (13a)
a window would be nice but there will be a intercooler most likely on the top of the motor unless there is some provision for a custom mounted setup somewhere else

and in response to picaman
as for other motor options the mount points are the same between subarus so with the right ECU you should be able to easily put in a N/A 2.5l or STI 2.5l (please correct me if i am wrong) the motors have the same dimensions and are generally cross compatible transmission wise (issues arise with the rear diff having a different drive ratio between the 5 and 6 speed.. but there is no rear diff in this car)

OR

you can always take the 2.0l heads off your EJ205 (2.0l wrx) and bolt them to the shortblock from a ej257 (2.5l STI) for a bump in compression and displacement to make a hybrid (this is fairly common for blown 2.0l motors and tuning is supported via COBB accsessports) and if you have the money you can do what i did and import a Version 7 or 8 (ej207 JDM sti) motor which is 2.0l with AVCS and OCV valves, they are hard to find but worth it (version 7 has all forged internals and 8k rev limit and ver 8 has a twin scroll) both will mount to a WRX 5 speed

hope that helps clear up the questions on engines (i have just scratched the surface)

as for my wishlist:

1. as many stock subaru parts carryovers as possible, subarus are like legoes and parts carry over from year to year with very few changes, so the more that can be pulled from a wrecked subaru the better

2. a soft top would be very nice for those of us in the midwest (as would heat and AC)

3. the stock 5disk stereo and speakers (and optional sub) are all cheap, easy to find parts and are good quality for stock OEM it would awesome if they could be carried over (especially the subwoofer under the passenger seat)

4. fog lights (again there are a variety of subaru OEM to choose from)

5. the exhaust system REALLY needs to keep that great boxer sound, a set of unequal length headers make these motors sound just flat sexy and i hope the exhaust keeps this sound without being to loud or obnoxious

6. no hood/trunk/engine cover prop rod please! use hood dampers! i don't care if it weighs more!

7. ECU and OBD2 port mounted VERY accessibly, alot of the tuning options are by OBD2 port and in the WRX it is under the steering column, it is easy (for me with long legs atleast) to knock the connector out of the socket while tuning

[Gollum]

I would like to see a street legal version.

I don't mean to bring down this thread in some stupid little debate or anything, I would just like some clarification from this statement. As one who is fairly familiar with the laws in my state, you might as well have just said "I would like to see it be a color".

What definition of "street legal" are we talking about? There's guys that drive around cars that are absurdly illegal but would never get impounded when pulled over. Cars that run 9's and even 8's but are still registered. I'd also bet good money that at any given car show 50% or more of the cars have been modified in some illegal way (at least here the great state of CA it's illegal), with or without the knowledge of the owner.

You see, this is always such a sticky, muddy subject because in CA just pulling out your factory air box and replacing it with a generic FRAM, or K&N filter is illegal. It needs to have C.A.R.B. numbers that show that it's an approved device that THAT car, not just a certified part in general.

So while people in some states can legally swap cams all day long in their Nova's we californians can't legally do squat. Just look through a Jegs or a Summit catalog and see what percentage of parts are 50 state legal with CARB numbers.

All this just to ask "so what do you mean"?

[PhyrraM]

FFR cannot sell complete cars, for federal reasons.

That alone means that some states will be much more forgiving than others.

It's true that California has challanges, but if the headlights are 1" too low some other states will have just as large a problem. Some states need wipers, the 818 may not have them. FFR has to find a median path. The builder takes over from there.

[Niburu]

All this just to ask "so what do you mean"?

I want to be able to build a car I can register and drive legally on the public roads of Virginia.
So far everything FFR has produced is driveable in my state.
However, for example, the Aerial Atom is NOT legal to drive in Virginia other than at a track.
Basically if it's not a classic replica like the Cobra, the exhaust will have to exit out past the rear of the car.
There also needs to be a windsheild with working wipers, and a full set of DOT approved headlights and indicators.
The Atom does not pass in VA basically because it doesn't have a real windsheild with wipers.

[mcbyerly08]

definitly a removable hard top or maybe t-tops
a nicely shaped spoiler that isn't overly large
some sort of a storage big enough to put a pair of helmets and other track day amenities in.
it needs to have real glass not plastic, and the side windows should go up and down.
basicly if it could be a street car built for the track so its more fun to drive.

[Pierre-Alexandre]

What would you like to see in the 818?


Answer : Me:rolleyes::o

[f31monkey]

definitly a removable hard top or maybe t-tops
i am a big fan of side pipes(like a viper not a cobra), maybe that could be an option...
Um... did you forget it's a mid-engine car? haha

And you all have got to be joking about "helmet storage" seriously thats what the passenger floor board is for, geeze!

[DREAMGTM]

I would like to see dual rads in the back like a lamborgini. This would mean no airconditioning needed as heat leaves the back. Having a rad in the front means the air goes through the rad heated and into you open windows so you need air conditioning./
Optional body ad ons like wheel flares, removable top with storage above engine area.
All the best,
Chris

[readymix]

I would like to see dual rads in the back like a lamborgini. This would mean no airconditioning needed as heat leaves the back. Having a rad in the front means the air goes through the rad heated and into you open windows so you need air conditioning./


What? If the radiator is mounted up front, then the hot air will be vented at the back of the hood and be blown over the top of the car, not into the windows. And putting a radiator in back doesn't mean the cabin stays cool. Tomorrow around 12:00PM in your time zone, go outside and look up in the sky. That giant ball of fire up there...that is where cabin heat usually comes from.

[LifeIsOnTheWire]

I would like to see dual rads in the back like a lamborgini. This would mean no airconditioning needed as heat leaves the back. Having a rad in the front means the air goes through the rad heated and into you open windows so you need air conditioning./
Optional body ad ons like wheel flares, removable top with storage above engine area.
All the best,
Chris

99% of cars have the radiator up front (even most mid-engine cars), and I don't think i've ever heard someone complaining that the rad heat comes in through the windows...

twin rads is probably going to be out of the question, this car is most likely going to use as many WRX parts as possible. i have a strong feeling that it will use the stock WRX rad.

[PhyrraM]

And keep in mind that the popularity of the WRX/STI and economies of scale have made it possible to already have many good choices for aftermarket WRX/STI radiators. From upgraded stock units to full blown all aluminum race units. Most for good prices too.

[picaman]

Um... did you forget it's a mid-engine car? haha

And you all have got to be joking about "helmet storage" seriously thats what the passenger floor board is for, geeze!

LOL, but I bet I know what your bedroom floor looks like!

[Wilky]

I'd like a car that competes with the Lotus Elise/Porsche Boxter in style and performance for the target price of $15K!

[vader wagon]

I just joined so I could comment! :^D

What I'd love to see? A case study in "what if" the Porsche 914 had continued to evolve? That'd be sweet! A modern, affordable performance 914. As example of one possible design direction, the SCC featured, Subie-powered 914:

http://image.modified.com/f/15590801+w750+st0/0704_sccp_02z+hunziker_porsche_914+front_left_view .jpg

[Mike Downs]

With an SB100, you can do anything to a kit car. It doesn't have to pass emissions. You just need a brake and lamp certificate from a safety point of view.


I don't mean to bring down this thread in some stupid little debate or anything, I would just like some clarification from this statement. As one who is fairly familiar with the laws in my state, you might as well have just said "I would like to see it be a color".

What definition of "street legal" are we talking about? There's guys that drive around cars that are absurdly illegal but would never get impounded when pulled over. Cars that run 9's and even 8's but are still registered. I'd also bet good money that at any given car show 50% or more of the cars have been modified in some illegal way (at least here the great state of CA it's illegal), with or without the knowledge of the owner.

You see, this is always such a sticky, muddy subject because in CA just pulling out your factory air box and replacing it with a generic FRAM, or K&N filter is illegal. It needs to have C.A.R.B. numbers that show that it's an approved device that THAT car, not just a certified part in general.

So while people in some states can legally swap cams all day long in their Nova's we californians can't legally do squat. Just look through a Jegs or a Summit catalog and see what percentage of parts are 50 state legal with CARB numbers.

All this just to ask "so what do you mean"?

[Gun Bunny]

1) Me (echoing pretty much everyone in the thread I think)
2) Modern styling that does not evoke anything in existence (the "what the hell was that" factor)
3) weatherproof/AC option (South Texas is already hitting the 90's with humidity as I write this)
4) Removeable top (soft/hard/targa/convertible/whatever) with onboard storage
5) Versatility of design (to allow multiple engine builds, possibly multiple bodies through modular construction)
6) Road manners with track capability (You can take essentially the same kit and move your build in either direction)
7) Seats you can spend a day trip in comfortably (I, at 6'2"/250, fit into the "wookiee-size" club, I believe)
8) Room for (minimal) entertainment system (again, thinking of day trips)
9) Smallish trunk/storage area for day/weekend bags (see nos. 7&8)
10) One word: GLASS
11) HID/LED lighting (modern and enhances visibility)

[readymix]

5) Versatility of design (to allow multiple engine builds, possibly multiple bodies through modular construction)
Covered. On the engine front at least. The EJ series engine has many configurations, all of which will fit because they all use the same engine mount points.
There are low cost EJ25 Naturally Aspirated models, and EJ20 and EJ255/7 turbocharged plants. They all demand the exact same engine bay real estate.


7) Seats you can spend a day trip in comfortably (I, at 6'2"/250, fit into the "wookiee-size" club, I believe)

You are in luck there. The seats that come in the WRX from 04-07 are wide and squishy. The 02-03 have slightly better bolstering, but they fit me just fine. And I'm no super model.

[16g-95gsx]

I couldn't imagine running an OEM seat in a car like this. There are far too many low cost lightweight options to make it worth it.

[PhyrraM]

I couldn't imagine running an OEM seat in a car like this. There are far too many low cost lightweight options to make it worth it.


$10K kit cost. $15K on the road cost. That's FFR's stated goal.

OEM seat compatibility is likely going to be a factor. Any seat I have seen that looks durable enough to actually use long term is $300+ per seat. That's 5% or so of the entire budget. For something that is "free" with the donor?

[Ks2]

I couldn't imagine running an OEM seat in a car like this. There are far too many low cost lightweight options to make it worth it.

i could, they are easy to source, cheap, most people will have some if they have a full donor car. i too fit into the 'wookie' category as it was so eloquently put, i don't even have to have the seat all the way back in my subaru, it sits comfortably and supports well

if the stock seat and mounts are used in the design then adding aftermarket seats will be really easy as there are already a wide array of seats available on the aftermarket that fit into subarus with no changes

[BrandonDrums]

I couldn't imagine running an OEM seat in a car like this. There are far too many low cost lightweight options to make it worth it.

True but for cost purposes it would be beneficial to have room for the OEM seats to save initial on-road cost. Most FFR projects start off running the full donor package re-using every possible part to get the car on the road. Then as it's driven, parts are upgraded.

[Gollum]

With an SB100, you can do anything to a kit car. It doesn't have to pass emissions. You just need a brake and lamp certificate from a safety point of view.

There's only so many of those, though in the last few years they've been much easier to get since the economy has people's projects on hold. If there was 1,000 given out each year I would tend to agree. But I have a feeling some people will end up registering them as current year models and then have to jump through hoops to get them passed.

Oh, and though it won't have to pass an emissions "standard" with a SB100, I do believe it will need certain 1960 requirements. What exactly I'd have to look up, but smog controlling devices entered the scene in the 50's, and the SB100 marks an vehicle that doesn't resemble another car as a 1960, which means there will be some expectations. It might just be EGR iirc.

[Oppenheimer]

Stock seats = budget goal
aftermarket seats = weight goal
aftermarket seats = wookie goal

Which goal(s) are going to end up more difficult to hit is probably going to determine the seats used in the base kit.

[crackedcornish]

Stock seats = budget goal
aftermarket seats = weight goal
aftermarket seats = wookie goal

Which goal(s) are going to end up more difficult to hit is probably going to determine the seats used in the base kit.

I bet the stock seats will make it....their weight goal seems pretty generous

[Ks2]

i am 6ft4 and fit comfortably in the stock seats (from an 02 atleast) with plenty of room to operate the pedals without hitting my knee on the steering wheel, as long as the seats in the 818 can move as far back as they can in the donor car they came from there should be no issue for wookies

weight though as you point out is the issue if i recall the stock front seat and brackets sliders etc is like 40pounds? someone correct me if i am off, you can save 10-15 lb's per seat with a sparco or something similar but you sacrifice alot of comfort

[readymix]

i am 6ft4 and fit comfortably in the stock seats (from an 02 atleast) with plenty of room to operate the pedals without hitting my knee on the steering wheel, as long as the seats in the 818 can move as far back as they can in the donor car they came from there should be no issue for wookies

weight though as you point out is the issue if i recall the stock front seat and brackets sliders etc is like 40pounds? someone correct me if i am off, you can save 10-15 lb's per seat with a sparco or something similar but you sacrifice alot of comfort

I have a pair of Sparco Torino seats in my car, they are plenty comfortable. The Evo2s that I have for the Datsun however aren't as comfortable. But they aren't for cruising.

[PhyrraM]

I agree. I see about 1600 pounds in what has already been stated. (Tube frame, fiberglass body, Subaru running gear)

I'm thinking that FFR has about 200 pounds to "play with" to meet the other goals ($10K kit, $15K complete, no-bodywork gelcoat panels)

[Ks2]

i have yet to find an aftermarket seat more comfortable then the stock one (for subaru's at least, a stone park bench would be more comfortable than my trucks seats) the aftermarket seats do hold me in the seat much better in hard cornering though which the WRX seats are quite poor at

admittedly i have not sat in every aftermarket seat out there but for the 818 plenty comfortable OEM seats are already out there, am i correct in assuming the torino seats are not terribly hard to swap in so if the 818 started with OEM factory seats those could be put in rather easy


I agree. I see about 1600 pounds in what has already been stated. (Tube frame, fiberglass body, Subaru running gear)

two stock seats and all the brakets and hardware would eat up 80-100 lbs leaving just a scant 100-120 for everything else interior wise, seems aftermarket seats would be the way to meet weight goals

[readymix]

i have yet to find an aftermarket seat more comfortable then the stock one (for subaru's at least, a stone park bench would be more comfortable than my trucks seats) the aftermarket seats do hold me in the seat much better in hard cornering though which the WRX seats are quite poor at

admittedly i have not sat in every aftermarket seat out there but for the 818 plenty comfortable OEM seats are already out there, am i correct in assuming the torino seats are not terribly hard to swap in so if the 818 started with OEM factory seats those could be put in rather easy


Yeah, Sparco makes a mount with slider for the Impreza. It bolts right in

[PhyrraM]

.....two stock seats and all the brakets and hardware would eat up 80-100 lbs leaving just a scant 100-120 ....

Ah, but aftermarket seat are not weigthless. Unless we plan on sitting on the floor.

I would guess the difference, with brackets, sliders and picking a reclinable seat, would be about 20-40 pounds lighter with aftermarket seats. 30-50 if you choose a non-reclinable model.

Maybe a fixed seat with (tool) adjustable pedals? Like early Lotus'...

[Oppenheimer]

i am 6ft4 and fit comfortably in the stock seats (from an 02 atleast) with plenty of room to operate the pedals without hitting my knee on the steering wheel, as long as the seats in the 818 can move as far back as they can in the donor car they came from there should be no issue for wookies

weight though as you point out is the issue if i recall the stock front seat and brackets sliders etc is like 40pounds? someone correct me if i am off, you can save 10-15 lb's per seat with a sparco or something similar but you sacrifice alot of comfort

What? The 'stock seat' that you 'fit comfortably' with 'plenty of room to operate the pedals' is installed in a WRX, not a yet to be dimensionally determined 818. What relation to the distance of said seats from pedals, wheel and roof in the WRX have to do with same in 818?

My particular wookie challenge is head to roof clearance. In a WRX, I have more head room than anything short of a new Beetle. But its not because of some magic in the seats, its because the WRX roof is tall. For those whose challenge is leg room, again, there is no magic in the stock seats, rather the distance between pedal location and the farthest the seats are able to go back in the WRX. Will the 818 have as tall a roof, or as much distance front to rear for seat travel? Hopefully it will. But I imagine some will still need to resort to aftermarket seats that have less padding (vertically or horizontally) to be able to fit.

[crackedcornish]

What? The 'stock seat' that you 'fit comfortably' with 'plenty of room to operate the pedals' is installed in a WRX, not a yet to be dimensionally determined 818. What relation to the distance of said seats from pedals, wheel and roof in the WRX have to do with same in 818?

My particular wookie challenge is head to roof clearance. In a WRX, I have more head room than anything short of a new Beetle. But its not because of some magic in the seats, its because the WRX roof is tall. For those whose challenge is leg room, again, there is no magic in the stock seats, rather the distance between pedal location and the farthest the seats are able to go back in the WRX. Will the 818 have as tall a roof, or as much distance front to rear for seat travel? Hopefully it will. But I imagine some will still need to resort to aftermarket seats that have less padding (vertically or horizontally) to be able to fit.

headroom?..who says it will even have a roof

[BrandonDrums]

headroom?..who says it will even have a roof

Answer: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?970-Does-no-top-and-or-no-H6-support-break-the-deal-for-you

If this doesn't have a roof option then a good many folk will be keeping their Subaru's intact.

As for all of this seat talk, the OEM seats will only be used for cost savings. Aftermarket will obviously be supported regardless. I wouldn't worry too much about weight though, WRX seats are MUCH lighter than you might expect. Still not full racing seat weight but those things are pretty darn minimal, at least my 05 seats are. The stock bracket doesn't have to be used...

Heck, the back seats of a WRX are so light it's a joke, I'm talking less than 7-8 lbs for the bottom cushion for the bench and around 10-15 lbs for the back (in a sedan). It's just foam with a wire spring frame.

[StatGSR]

Ah, but aftermarket seat are not weigthless. Unless we plan on sitting on the floor.

I would guess the difference, with brackets, sliders and picking a reclinable seat, would be about 20-40 pounds lighter with aftermarket seats. 30-50 if you choose a non-reclinable model.

Maybe a fixed seat with (tool) adjustable pedals? Like early Lotus'...

I think it still might be more weight than that, i thought most wrx seats had airbags and the drivers side has all the high adjustment crap.

Also we don't know if this car will even has a top, no way i would rock oem wrx seats with out a roof, it would take a week for them to dry out if they got wet...

[Oppenheimer]

headroom?..who says it will even have a roof

It'll still need headroom even with no roof. I'm not gonna drive looking over the top of the windshield, or with my head above the rollbars.

[crackedcornish]

I was being a bit facetious there....I guess I should of used a smiley :o

[Ks2]

what i was getting at and i guess wasn't clear about given the comments is that if the seats, sliders and brackets(and everything else) is in OEM like configuration (neglecting the roof height which until now hadn't been brought up) it would be comfortable, easy to adjust and work with for really tall people

my assumption is that when referring to stock seats that also takes into account the other stuff needed to adjust them, which is why i asked readymix how easy the sparco seat went in, if the stock setup is used in regard to brakets and sliders and general spacing etc, aftermarket or OEM should fit nicely

of course now that everyone mentions headroom I'm curious to see how that will play out, it would have to have an interior space height similar to the WRX for the stock seat configuration to work (atleast for tall people)

also stagsr i didn't weigh mine when i had them out, but best estimate would be about 40lbs brackets and all (again if someone has the actual wieght and not the speculated wieght please correct me) there is no attached airbag or anything, some wiring underneath for an airbag sensor but that is easily remedied with a resistor. the bulk of the weight was in the brackets and sliding mechanisms the seats themselves don't weigh hardly anything

[DREAMGTM]

QUOTE:What? If the radiator is mounted up front, then the hot air will be vented at the back of the hood and be blown over the top of the car, not into the windows. And putting a radiator in back doesn't mean the cabin stays cool. Tomorrow around 12:00PM in your time zone, go outside and look up in the sky. That giant ball of fire up there...that is where cabin heat usually comes from.

My friend built a manta. When he cruised down road with the window down the hot air came through the rad through opening in the hood and right in the open windows. Thank you for the enlightenment I always wondered what that was up there. I don't like air and if possible wanted to avoid the above problem. Just a thought. Cruising keeps me cool.
All the best,
Chris

[Mechazawa]

I might be beating a dead horse by jumping into this thread, but I figure it can't do any harm to make my opinion known. I just found out about this car in the May issue of Grassroots Motorsports, and let me say that I am very excited about it. I have been impressed with Factory Five's engineering and professionalism for a long time, and for an almost equally long time have wanted to build a kit that results in very light mid engine car that uses modern components.

I have never built a kit--to impractical at the price point. I could maybe spend 20k, but I would need the car to have enough utility to act as a backup for the old POS I will be using as a daily to afford the kit, actually I would want the kit to be just civilized enough to replace the daily, at least for someone with relatively low expectations for comfort, that means it would greatly increase the chance that I actually buy one if it does have some basic amenities.

I currently have a turbo'd (home brew) Miata as a daily, and an 86 MR2 in the midst of an engine swap.

So here is my wish list.

First, Factory Five's already stated goals (I would be willing to tack on 100lb and $1000 for some extra utility)

--A fixed roof or removable hardtop/targa top/soft top that can be put up or down with one hand without getting out of the car, or the ability to add one.
--Side windows (could be plastic) that don't leak too much and can be gotten out of the way for tolls/cash machines in some not overly inconvenient manner, or the ability to add them.
--The ability to fit EFFECTIVE windshield wipers and heat/AC.
--Please retain the steering column switches from the donor vehicle so the turn signals will self cancel, and high beams will have accessible switches.

--Ideally it will be a nice slippery car to help with performance and fuel efficiency given that the Subaru power train, while desirable for lots of good reasons, is probably not very efficient.

I don't have the artistic skills to sketch something up, so this is about all I can do to contribute.

Regardless of weather it turns out to be right for me, I do hope the car is a great success.

[Doc_FFR]

First and formost - To look professional, to not be filled with half-done, half-though out fluff.

Long distance seats.

Normal doors. 'Slightly up' Aston type doors are OK. No gull wings, suicide, lambo, etc...

A dash that doesn't look racecar. If the exterior styling is modern, the interior should be somewhat modern. If the exterior is period, then the interior can be period. Doesn't have to be a finished dash, but the shapes and styles need to be done right so I can finish the job properly.

If it has a top, make it well done - or leave it off altogether. Same with side windows, decent job or not at all.

I do NOT want a mini GTM.

I'm liking this summary so far. For me, if I can see the frame I'm gone. Also, I need a windshield.

[Cooluser23]

i have yet to find an aftermarket seat more comfortable then the stock one (for subaru's at least, a stone park bench would be more comfortable than my trucks seats) the aftermarket seats do hold me in the seat much better in hard cornering though which the WRX seats are quite poor at


I know this takes it a bit off the topic in both price and simplicity, but try

Cobra Misano
http://www.motorspeed.com/sitepix/products/cobra-misano-anni.jpg

Recaro Sportster CS
http://www.gtmspyder.nl/sportsterCS.jpg

Sparco Milano
http://assets0.saferacer.com/images/P/00947_1_lg.jpg

I've sat in those, and they're way more comfortable and softer than most factory seats. (Not to mention, the above seats are factory options for some Sports cars/exotics) To me, a seat that holds you in, while you corner, is much more comfortable and relaxing, because I don't have to use my abs/core as much trying to fight inertia and avoid sliding all over the place.
Try to find a store that has those seats in stock. It's always worth it to try them out beforehand.

I've seen a few sports seats in trucks, and they do make the ride much more comfortable than bench seats.

[Cooluser23]

-Removeable/stowable top
-Grocery bag space (you always need this when the boss cal
-A cup holder (my wife and I can share)
-Basic stereo (I will find somewhere for a tiny sub)
-Insurance and registration
-Built in Escort radar detector (possibly laser shifter as well)
-IR headlamps and night vision heads-up display (just kidding, I am done)

I think an interior design competition would be great, but I've probably said that a million times.. - sorry, just too exited.

Cup holders would be nice, and really not that hard to make. - Just mold in a round indentation into the interior fiberglass. Or steal them out of the donor Subie.

A provision for a double Din Stereo headunit would be nice. That would enable the builder to put in just about any stereo they want to, should they want one. (Or have enough space for auxiliary gauges.)

Yes, the car needs to have storage space for grocery shopping/overnight bags, etc. We all have "bosses" that will be VERY unhappy if they have to carry a duffel bag on their lap while riding shotgun. It will make for a very uncomfortable journey, especially on road rallys, FFR meets, Car club events, shows, etc. - We should be able to survive a 6 hour drive without our ear falling off. (from too loud interior noise, engine noise, or "auxiliary" noise by passengers complaining)

I hope the cabin allows for a nice 10" sub somewhere, even if it's a shallow mount. It would be nice, 'cause road trips are boring when listening to the sound of "wind blowing" for 8 hours.

I hope there will be some room to store basic paperwork (insurance/Registration) that doesn't involve duct taping it to the firewall. I don't even need a glove box, just some pouches would be nice.

I don't see a reason why it wouldn't be possible to do a remote install of a Escort 9500ci, or Beltronics Sti-r Plus. It's always a nice feature. Of course, we wouldn't want to speed in a car with a short 95" wheelbase. - it's made for the twisties. But it's nice that we could if we wanted to.

If we have room for a double DIN headunit, I don't see a reason why you couldn't have a 7" screen with a FLIR Pathfind-IR nighvision system.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images345x345/606692.jpg
http://www.pr-infrared.com/mobile-imaging/mo03-flir-pathfindir/images/pathfindir-grille2-lrg.jpg
The camera can be mounted in the grille, or anywhere outside the 818.
http://caraudiomag.com/sites/default/files/images/00000/21/97/flir_pathfindir_review_night_vision_3.jpg
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images345x345/606693.jpg
The only downside is that a FLIR kit is a bit pricey at $2400. I've been wanting one for a long time, but I'm still waiting for prices to come down. (My friends have a house near a lake that is a 30 minute fun :) drive down a semi-private dirt road carved between trees and lots of wildlife. I would always enjoy a little bit more "heads up" to spot deer, cows, terrain, just a bit past the range of headlights. (Maybe another solution would be "Group B" rally lights mounted on the "grille", or roof to make the 818 a fun dirt road racer.)

For those not familiar with passive Nightvision systems (further range than active IR) here are a few vids:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIJOrZWyRc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy_-B-iVzbM
Installation

[Ks2]

I hope the cabin allows for a nice 10" sub somewhere, even if it's a shallow mount. It would be nice, 'cause road trips are boring when listening to the sound of "wind blowing" for 8 hours.


10" no but an option on many subarus (mine included) was this http://www.1stsubaruparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33_46&products_id=709 which sits under the passenger seat (helps drown out that auxiliary noise you mention) alot* of subaru donors already have them.

i am actually a fan of the stock sound system, 5 disk and relatively (for stock at least) good sound with decent bass (it wont shatter eardrums but i don't want a ghetto blaster sub), it would be great if the stock system was incorporated in the design and people could decide whether or not they wanted to use it

as for stealing cupholders from the donor subie, my 02 has only 2, one is just big enough for a can of redbull (i use it for cellphones since anything else there gets knocked over shifting gears) and the other comes out of the dashboard

also having a couple of gauges somewhere (A pillar!) would be nice, boost and oil temp specifically, it is a good idea to keep an eye on this motor if you are pushing it pretty hard

and finally that cobra seat looks nice, what does it run for typically?

*i have no actual sales figures only that most everyone i know around here with a subaru has or have had one

[Scubynubie]

I have to say that I have really high hopes for this kit. Even though Subaru is coming out with a RWD coupe of their own next year, this kit has the potential to be a formidable track car that is reliable, and fun to drive on a nearly daily basis.

What I am looking for are:

- Hard top, or at least a hard top variant.

I don't like convertibles, and if you can make a hard top variant that basically all ready has a cage built in, that would be brilliant. Not to mention the benefits to chassis rigidity.

- Tuned suspension so the car will be able to handle the twisties.

Even if this car tips the scales at 2000 lbs, it is going to be super fast. That is great, but if it doesn't handle well, what's the point. I believe that the biggest obstacle will be the weight dist, with the engine and trans behind the driver. MR cars definitely offer up some challenges in this regard, and I can see the front of this kit being pretty light, which may cause some twitchy behavior if you enter the corner wrong, etc.

I have a Subaru, and I track it pretty often, and one of the things that I like best is that it is very neutral, and handles consistently. In other words, it won't bite you unless you get completely silly in a corner. If this car is fast but its a handful to get around the track, that would be a bummer.

- Cross-comparability for WRX parts is a must as well. The more parts that we can transfer over, especially from modified WRX's the better. I know that I would like to move over my suspension (though the spring rates may be way too high), etc.

The main concern I would have would be cooling, and air flow for the intercooler.

[olpro]

This project ( a few months ago) is similar to the 818 and has Speedhut gauges, Pioneer audio system, Grant steering wheel.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/allanflowers/IP411.jpg

[readymix]

This project ( a few months ago) is similar to the 818 and has Speedhut gauges, Pioneer audio system, Grant steering wheel.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/allanflowers/IP411.jpg

I would plan for a double din hole in the dash for a stereo, as all 02-07 WRX and STi models had a double din 6-disc unit as a standard option. I honestly don't need room for gauges, but I know alot of others will.

[GUNS]

I might be in the minority here, but I actually want something a little more extreme in the 818. When I first heard about this project, I imagined a street legal track car and I feel this is inline with Factory Five's initial intentions. I think there is something very cool about having to climb in and strap into a car. It makes you feel like you are apart of a machine that was built for a purpose! Following some of the posts in this forum, I feel that most people disagree with this. To me, it seems that a lot of people here want a mild, cozy, daily driver like car. I understand that people want a car like this, but why not just go buy one at a dealership? There are a ton of available sports/sporty cars with comfy seats, navigation, room for groceries, etc. This is not what this project is about! I want something that has mind blowing performance, looks to back it up, with no comprimises all at a reasanoble price.

This is a rare opportunity to make something special here and I feel that the mojority of users on this forum want another bland spors car. I am hoping that F5 sticks with their guns (no pun) and proceeds with an extreme sports/track car. BTW, I don't give a damn if my wife is comfortable in the thing, I want it to scare the living **** out of her!

[readymix]

I might be in the minority here, but I actually want something a little more extreme in the 818. When I first heard about this project, I imagined a street legal track car and I feel this is inline with Factory Five's initial intentions. I think there is something very cool about having to climb in and strap into a car. It makes you feel like you are apart of a machine that was built for a purpose! Following some of the posts in this forum, I feel that most people disagree with this. To me, it seems that a lot of people here want a mild, cozy, daily driver like car. I understand that people want a car like this, but why not just go buy one at a dealership? There are a ton of available sports/sporty cars with comfy seats, navigation, room for groceries, etc. This is not what this project is about! I want something that has mind blowing performance, looks to back it up, with no comprimises all at a reasanoble price.

This is a rare opportunity to make something special here and I feel that the mojority of users on this forum want another bland spors car. I am hoping that F5 sticks with their guns (no pun) and proceeds with an extreme sports/track car. BTW, I don't give a damn if my wife is comfortable in the thing, I want it to scare the living **** out of her!

There is "extreme" and then there is "This is embarrassing to drive around in because I look like a goddammed space cadet." or "Maybe I should just go get the whole Batman costume if I'm going to drive around in this thing." I want a car that will serve both purposes. It should be highly capable on the track, but at the same time, it should be drivable on the street. The Lotus Elise fit this bill well, but with a price tag well into the 50k range, it isn't exactly something that the average dude can own. But the Elise is a prime example of what to achieve with the 818. A flashy, sporty looking car, mid engined, nimble handling, light weight...but just enough creature comfort that if you felt like driving it on a 4 hour road trip or cross country, it wouldn't be a huge pain in the ***. That is why when we see designs with ridiculous scoops and vents all over the place with no real function, cars that look like someone welded 2 motorcycles together, or something borne from a half dozen hot-wheels car designers on acid, it makes us cringe. I don't want it to be mild. But I definitely don't want to be driving around something that turns heads for the wrong reason. There's "Wow, look at that car! That thing looks awesome!" and then there is "Wow, look at that car! Next time you perform a car abortion, be sure to remove the coat hanger and toss it in the trash before cutting it loose on the road."

[Ks2]

a quick reply to GUNS, watch a few episodes of top gear where one of the three get a track tuned racing car, it might look cool and be fast and amazingly fun (looking) to drive but the entertainment is how impractical it is and how miserable the host becomes after a short period

[Gollum]

I personally don't mind if the 818 turns out to be super extreme like an atom, but at the same time I think a lot of the people here are looking for something to be able to daily drive if they have to. I don't think that means they're looking for something that drives like a Cadillac, just something that comfortable to be in for a while.

There's certainly some deep truth in what Ks2 brought up. Most true "track" cars are trailered to the track for one really good reason other than in case they break, and that's due to the fact they're not "fun" outside of their element. They're a CHORE out of their element. Clutchless transmissions with straight cut gears, fixed seats with minimal padding, complete disregard for low speed driveability sometimes, etc. Race cars might be great when you get them on a track, but driving them on a the street is usually an entirely different manner.

This is why so many mild racing classes gather so much interest, even from experienced racers. The idea of owning a spec miata that you can drive around town like a normal car because it IS a normal car appeals to many.

Weather that should be the 818's fate, I'm not certain how I feel. I know I'd love a top, but in all honestly that's because I'm not huge on roadsters and like to be able to drive in the rain, mildly quiet, and wind free environments if I wish. If it's strictly a roadster it means it won't come out nearly as much, in principle alone, and it also means it probably won't be taken on road trips. That's not such a terrible fate, but it certainly something many people here are pretty opinionated about.

[Oppenheimer]

I personally don't mind if the 818 turns out to be super extreme like an atom, but at the same time I think a lot of the people here are looking for something to be able to daily drive if they have to. I don't think that means they're looking for something that drives like a Cadillac, just something that comfortable to be in for a while.

Exactly. Like readymix said, the Elise hit that mark well. It would not even be plausible for _most people_ to use an Elise as a DD, or even to drive to work once in their lifetime, its just too extreme. I think however most here asking for an 818 with a top, doors, or for sane levels of usability are not most people. They are looking for something that _approaches_ the level of usability of an Elise (sure, they'd probably like it to meet or exceed, but will take what they can get in a $10K kit).

If this car is fun to drive, and still hits all the performance marks we're all expecting an 1800 lb, 250+ hp car with an FFR chassis to achieve, FFR will have a sales success. If its just a wild track performer, that happens to be street legal, it will still sell, just not as well. If people drive them less, less people will see them, less people will want them, less people will buy them.

Fun, practical enough, and an outragious performer (light, fast, awesome handling), that doesn't look like a cartoon. That is what I'm hoping for, and what would seem to be a formula for success for FFR.

[readymix]

I think if there was ever a goal to shoot for, it would be to build an Elise killer. The Elise has the perfect balance of high performance and handling, with just enough creature comfort to be driven in a "daily driver" fashion. Like Oppenheimer said, you wouldn't daily drive a Lotus Elise. But if you had to take it to work, you wouldn't be uncomfortable, and you wouldn't look like an absolute tool either. And if the boss said "hey, we've got an hour for lunch, let's go grab a beer and a burger somewhere, my car is in the executive ramp so it's a pain to get it out for an hour of lunch, you mind driving?" you wouldn't feel like a jackass driving him around, because the Elise has the *****in' supercar looks, but you can sit in it in a pair of slacks, a shirt and a tie and not look like a retard. But at the end of the day, you can toss on a pair of shorts and a t-shirt, drive it out to the local road track, and give the guy in the 911 a run for his money.

If it goes the route of an exo-car or some sort of hideous batmobile from the future, you get that performance mark, but if you ever have to drive it somewhere, or take your boss to lunch, you're going to feel awkard and look stupid. And your boss isn't going to appreciate washing down his beer and hamburger lunch with a mouth-full of mosquitos and road debris. Nor is he going to appreciate having to have his slacks dry-cleaned because they are now covered in the road grime that flies in and out of your crazy skeleton car.

[PhyrraM]

So keep your boss out of the car, simple as that. I, personally, have yet to worry about what anyone has to say about what I drive. (Everything from MG Midgets, to a Datsun B210, old Montero and even a B.R.A.T. for a few years)

The thought that just occured to me is that here in Southern California, any enclosed car needs to have functional HVAC or it can only be brought out on 'bad' days. I assume most of the Southern states are the same. So a top is gonna be a double whammy in the weight department.

Curious to see how FFR procedes. I'm *guessing* the top has already been firmly lodged into the option list. (Budget reasons)


*Notice I didn't say I didn't want a top.

[Mechazawa]

I think "Elise killer" sums it up for me as well. I would be OK with an Elise as a DD, I seriously considered it. The only obstacles were ingress/egress and about $15,000. Resolve either one and I will likely bite.

And honestly I don't need the power windows and locks. I don't need locks at all. I'd like windows that go up and down in some simplified fashion, if not the gull wing half door solution, which sort of eliminates the need for windows that can be opened.

I probably won't buy the car if I can't convince myself that it can be used to get to work, and to me that means a roof or a top that's better than the one on an MG B, plus windows that don't go on with a zipper, heat, AC, and Wipers. I don't mind running up the price of my car to have those things.

Even at 15k is going to be too expensive for me to use as a track toy, that's what old beat up sports cars are for. 20k for an awesome no compromise street car that I get to build myself is easier to justify.

I don't think we need to worry about it looking ridiculous, FFR knows that the appearance will need to appeal to a large pool of potential customers, they will go with something most people will like.

This thing is going to have torque that a stock Elise can only dream about. It's going to rock.

[blueafro]

Have those who are talking about driving this car to work thought about how they plan to insure it? I ask because I have yet to find either 1) a mainstream insurer who will cover a kitcar or 2) a collector/kit insurer who doesn't forbid commuting in their usage restrictions.

[unclebigbad]

Have those who are talking about driving this car to work thought about how they plan to insure it? I ask because I have yet to find either 1) a mainstream insurer who will cover a kitcar or 2) a collector/kit insurer who doesn't forbid commuting in their usage restrictions. many of the people who would build/drive this car are little rebelous anyways and would pull it out any time the mood struck em'

[readymix]

Have those who are talking about driving this car to work thought about how they plan to insure it? I ask because I have yet to find either 1) a mainstream insurer who will cover a kitcar or 2) a collector/kit insurer who doesn't forbid commuting in their usage restrictions.

There are plenty of insurers out there that insure kit cars and don't have a unreasonable mileage limit. And when I was talking about driving it to work, I was talking about the occasional drive to work, not commuting in it daily...I have a work car for that. But if it is Friday, and it's a short day, and the location for work for me that day involves nice scenery, I would like to be able to drive it.

[blueafro]

There are plenty of insurers out there that insure kit cars and don't have a unreasonable mileage limit. And when I was talking about driving it to work, I was talking about the occasional drive to work, not commuting in it daily...I have a work car for that. But if it is Friday, and it's a short day, and the location for work for me that day involves nice scenery, I would like to be able to drive it.

I've been left with the impression that "no commuting" restrictions (as distinct from mileage limitations) pretty much mean, "Don't have an accident within ten miles of your office and expect any coverage at all," but perhaps I am mistaken. If anyone has experience that indicates otherwise, I am very interested in the details, as I have a car I'd love to take off of normal insurance and put onto kit/collector insurance, but have not, for this very reason.

[Gollum]

I have a vehicle that is insured under the precept that it's driven less than 2,000 miles a year, as it's a recreational vehicle. I had the unfortunate experience of having to file a claim for that vehicle when I happened to be driving it to and from work for a short while, and my insurance covered it without much fuss really. I'd imagine most companies are like that. What they care about is how many miles are actually being put on the vehicle, not the actual GPS location of where you go when you drive it. When you drive a car 10k a year there's obviously a much higher risk of damaging it.

Plus if you're only insuring the 818 for only 15-20k, then your rates shouldn't be that bad anyways, let alone if you insure it as a recreational vehicle.

[blueafro]

I have a vehicle that is insured under the precept that it's driven less than 2,000 miles a year, as it's a recreational vehicle. I had the unfortunate experience of having to file a claim for that vehicle when I happened to be driving it to and from work for a short while, and my insurance covered it without much fuss really.

What company, if you don't mind my asking? That sounds like what I've been looking for.

[Gollum]

Geico actually, I've just switched to USAA though and I don't regret it one bit. I have three cars on the insurance between me and my wife. A '07 accord that sees 15k+ miles a year, a '81 280ZX that's used about 6-9k a year, and a '75 280Z that sees maybe 2k at most. The cost of insuring BOTH of my Z cars with geico was under $50 a month, and that had comprehensive on both. Granted, if we didn't have the accord to list as a "primary" commute vehicle it'd be a different story. When I had the two Z cars insured by myself with Geico it was running me about $90 a month, but I also wasn't married, which dropped my rates considerably.

We now insure all three cars, plus have renters insurance, and have customer service people I actually like for less a month. Oh, and our coverage is actually better too.

[blueafro]

Geico actually, I've just switched to USAA though and I don't regret it one bit.

Okay, thanks. I've been told by GEICO that they will not insure a kit car. USAA used to, but I gather they're not taking any new ones.

[thebeerbaron]

Okay, thanks. I've been told by GEICO that they will not insure a kit car. USAA used to, but I gather they're not taking any new ones.

I have a policy each with Geico and USAA. USAA rocks in the service department, but is more expensive than Geico for the car in question. When I was looking to see if I could get the Miata on a classic or limited-use policy I looked at both, but IIRC they each farmed the classic/kit stuff out to another insurer. If you look around on the USAA website you'll find the link - I don't remember where I saw the link to Geico's partner.

[2KWIK4U]

When I still had my MK-III roadster it was insured through State Farm. They were pretty reasonable with few restrictions and during the winter months I only had comp on it but with a simple phone call, back to full coverage for spring fun.

[Wildrova]

I think I'm going to go against the trend here, but, I have some logic to my reasoning... (maybe :) )
Firstly, I can absolutely understand the appeal of a vehicle with all its panels, roof, wind up windows etc that is comfortable enough to drive to work in and perhaps maybe if the weather was just right, a weekend trip away somewhere.

However, if Factory Five said give us 15k and we'll sell you a kit of parts for the car you want (I wish :) ) then I'm pretty sure my request would be for something like a cross between the cab forward shape of a zonda / lambo (i know the chassis seems to prevent this) the low,wideness of an x-bow and the exo skeleton bits of an atom.

No roof.
No windows.
Hey i'd even be happy to swap windshield for helmet. :eek:

(note, id still like to keep a normal gearbox, suspension that respects my spine and other key features of a road car)

Impractical - yep
great fun to drive - i think so.

I think the other advantage here would be that smaller simple shaped panels that covered critical areas while leaving other areas open are probably cheaper and easier to mold.
the less complex the design and the inclusions the lighter and cheaper the end product can be

Finally, I think...
If there is only a finite pot of money to produce the kit (less than 15k) I'd rather a smaller number of high quality parts.

Just my 2c worth of ramblings

[readymix]

So, you want a car that requires you to wear a helmet to drive it on public roads, which I believe is illegal in a passenger car anyway, but you want the suspension to be cushy soft so your back and rear end doesn't hurt when driving it. You've got your priorities mixed up.

[D2W]

So, you want a car that requires you to wear a helmet to drive it on public roads, which I believe is illegal in a passenger car anyway, but you want the suspension to be cushy soft so your back and rear end doesn't hurt when driving it. You've got your priorities mixed up.

While I have seen pictures of guys driving their windshieldless cobras on the street with a helmet on (Sergio I think), I don't want to have to wear one everytime I drive it. Now a removeable windshield for trackdays, I could be interested in that.

[Oppenheimer]

However, if Factory Five said give us 15k and we'll sell you a kit of parts for the car you want (I wish :) ) then I'm pretty sure my request would be for something like a cross between the cab forward shape of a zonda / lambo (i know the chassis seems to prevent this) the low,wideness of an x-bow and the exo skeleton bits of an atom.

No roof.
No windows.
Hey i'd even be happy to swap windshield for helmet. :eek:

(note, id still like to keep a normal gearbox, suspension that respects my spine and other key features of a road car)

Impractical - yep
great fun to drive - i think so.

Finally, I think...
If there is only a finite pot of money to produce the kit (less than 15k) I'd rather a smaller number of high quality parts.


Sounds a lot like a mid engine version of the FFR Roadster. I think that would be too close to something they already make.

[sports.racer]

I'm sure it's been said before but I vote for Lancia Stratos.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e4TewSapXKg#at=563

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/08/01stratosallout.jpg

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/lancia-stratos-shows-itself/#3294995

[sports.racer]

I'm sure it's been said before but I vote for Lancia Stratos


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4TewSapXKg&feature=player_embedded

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/08/01stratosallout.jpg

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/lancia-stratos-shows-itself/#3294995

[Mr2man]

Hi all first post here long time fan of factory 5 and the kit scene. I have always loved the 550 spyder kits and annually e-mail Toyota to request they bring back the MR2. I was overjoyed when I learned about the 818.

So I agree with the posters that advocate for something that looks like nothing else unfortunately the Smyth Performance car looks a bit too honda/mazdaish for my tastes.

I love the long hood of the old Jag E types, and the curves of the old Ferrari 250s and the Porsche 550s. But, I do like most of the more modern angular designs as well the door/QP cut of the new camaro just blows me away.....
Totally agree with this, particularly with the bit about the Mr2. I'd love to see a more modern stylized update of the original MK I mr2; along the lines of the Cadillac XLR, with of course the cockpit moved a little forward and the engine in the rear (a supercharged Ecotec motor would go nicely here).
I've got a pic of the XLR if anyone would like to photoshop it for submission (which should go over like a lead balloon since one of the judges is a former Cadillac Designer) :)