818 has been officially classed in E Mod for SCCA Solo - Good luck with that

[SixStar]

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/solo.pdf

If you're not sure why this is bad just Google Jeff Kiesel.

The skinny:

"#14186 Factory Five 818 Classing
The MAC has recommended the following Tech Bulletin to add a new listing:
Add to 18.1.A.1 under “This list of currently approved models is as follows:”
Factory Five 818"

"#13669 Factory Five 818 Classing Proposal
The PAC believes that non-production based, tube-framed, de novo (new) vehicles or “kit”-cars are more appropriately
classed in the Modified category. Clones of full- fendered production cars (e.g. Ford Cobra, Ford Cobra Coupe) remain
classed in X-Prepared.
A related Modified category listing item appears in Tech Bulletin #14186"

[Mechie3]

I'm not surprised honestly. Is it good? Meh. You certainly won't win at nationals. Not only is Jeff a great driver with a great car they have the funds to destroy anything (for those that don't know, they own Carvin Guitars).

Is it bad? Meh. It's no good to bring a new untested car in the first year and destroy a class. It's better to let it be an underdog the first year and then reclass it.

[RM1SepEx]

That is where it belongs, I thought that I would have to run for a couple years in AMod before it would be moved to EMod

removing the GTM from X-P

Factory Five GTM Classing
The PAC recommends removal of the following listing from Appendix A, section X-Prepared:
Factory Five GTM Supercar

Does that put the GTM in EM too???

[Jeff Kleiner]

As said this is where it belongs. It has a fighting chance regionally whereas it would have been seriously outclassed AM. Nationally it will take a hero driver to unseat the top dogs whether it be with an 818 or anything else.

Jeff

[D Clary]

Looks like a doable class. Will take a good driver two years of spring, tire and shock work to win at a high level but locally I don't see how they could put it in a lower class and be fair.

[Mechie3]

http://www.racingbeat.com/images/features/jeff-kiesel/240/Kiesel_6.jpg

[SixStar]

30529

This would have been the main competition Nationally in XP, personally given the dimensions I say XP in a better fit, but I get why they're putting it into Mod. While they're at it they should ban my WRX from ESP too but let the GT500 stay, oh wait, they did......

[Leonard]

That is a little disappointing. In terms of weight and horsepower it really is a good fit in XP and would have been potentially competitive. I don't think it would have been a class killer by any means. They also moved the GTM to E-Mod but made no mention of the 33. I suspect it will be difficult to get the SEB to revisit this anytime soon. We'd have been far better off if they'd moved it to EM for now and left the GTM alone.

[RM1SepEx]

the 33 should be in EM too (as the cobra replicas should be)

[D Clary]

Looked over the rules, The problem is there is no" Stock" for the 818. If you build an S model without any modifications for the 15 grand that they advertise they could class that differently, but who does that. If Jeff Kiesel had an 818 that he wanted to win EM with it would be quite a different car. At this time they have no way to differentiate them with the rules they have. Just my opinion, I don't race SCCA because of the rules. I feel like I need a lawyer to build a car.

[Kalstar]

So what Does that mean, what is the limitations and what other cars are classed in that category?

[RM1SepEx]

a "stock" car is series built with a build qty of 1000 in the model year.... that means a Production car...

a kit isn't series built and the qty is also too low, this fact means that a kit isn't eligible for street, street mod, street prepared classes, as these are all production based classes with limits to allowed mods

Section 13 2014 SCCA rules

Cars running in Street Category must have been series produced with
normal road touring equipment capable of being licensed for normal
road use in the United States, and normally sold and delivered through
the manufacturer’s retail sales outlets in the United States. A Canadianmarket
vehicle is eligible for Street category if it is identical to the USmarket
counterpart except for comfort and convenience modifications
as allowed per Section 13.2.A.
A member may request classing for any car models not specifically listed
in Street Category, provided that vehicle was produced in quantities
of at least 1,000 in that model year.
A car will remain eligible for National events through the end of the 30th
calendar year after the manufacturer-designated model year of the car.
This eligibility limitation applies only to the Street classes.
Except for modifications authorized below, Street Category cars must
be run as specified by the manufacturer with only standard equipment
as defined by these Rules. This requirement refers not just to individual
parts, but to combinations thereof which would have been ordered together
on a specific car. Any other modifications or equipment will place
the car in Street Touring®, Street Prepared, Street Modified, Prepared,
or Modified Categories as appropriate. Configurations involving damaged
parts (e.g., blown fuses) are not typically authorized by the manufacturer
and hence are not allowed.

[nuisance]

So, this has been recommended by the advisory committee, but has not been adopted by the SEB, and that is not automatic.

Still, it is a good place to start. In XP in 2014, the PAX is 0.906, and for Emod, 0.928. Not that big a difference, and much better than 1.000 that Amod gets (and, that is still what we will get until next year).

Looking at nationals last year, Jeff had a two day total of 115.948 in Emod, and Fred had 117.8 in XP. Not that much difference. Either way, it will take a major, multi-year effort to make an 818 competitive, and by then both Fred and Jeff may have found a new interest, and there will be a new top dog who is even faster.

I am looking forward to having an 818 to toss in the ring.

[nuisance]

As I think about this, I think not. It can be a fun solo and track day car. It might have its own race series some day. But look at some numbers...

1958 Austin Healey Bugeye Sprite
Builder: Jeff Kiesel
Weight: 1810 (with driver and 120 pounds of Ballast)
Width: 64.5 inches
Wheelbase: 80 inches
Power: 396 HP (@ 7300 RPM) and 308 TQ (@ 5700 RPM) to the wheels at 14.7 PSI of boost (Updated 1/2013)

2006 Lotus Elise
Fred Zust
Weight: (not sure, but he told me he needs 100+ lbs. of ballast to make weight)
Width: Stock is 67.7", but Fred's is wider because of the tires
Wheelbase: 90.5"
Power: again, I'm not sure, but he told me well over 400

818
(unknown star driver)
Weight: over 2000 lbs with driver
Width: 69.5"
Wheelbase: 96"
Power: plug in your own numbers

In either XP or Emod, the 818 is huge, and heavy comparatively. No amount of modding can change the basic numbers.

Fun factor will be very high. Also, a lot of satisfaction can be had by running something you built in your barn (garage, etc.).

John

[Mechie3]

The size of the sprite is a huge factor. My Fmod is small enough (55" width) that sometimes offset slaloms require hardly any movement while full size cars are making very distinctive left/right/left movements.

[SixStar]

The size of the sprite is a huge factor. My Fmod is small enough (55" width) that sometimes offset slaloms require hardly any movement while full size cars are making very distinctive left/right/left movements.

Plus she's got the booty. Lotus problems, always hitting cones with the rear, the 818 will be the same way.

[Scargo]

Meh, who wants to do solo? Been there done that after SCCA racing. I need a bigger fix. Give me the track.:p

[Leonard]

To a large degree where it will be competitive is dictated by how much it can be lightened. Based on displacement options minimum weights would be 1570-1670lb (assuming 180lb driver) for EM and 1750-2000lb for XP (weight calculations below).

The 818S in the curb weight thread is listed at 1847lbs. That's WRX based build (w/GTM seats). There's some room to trim weight off though. I'd guess that around 200lb can be shaved off by various changes (harness diet, no paint, wilwood brakes, lightweight clutch/flywheel/pullies, braille battery, stripped interior, windscreen delete, headlight/taillight delete, pin doors and remove hardware). There would also be some weight addition for splitters/spoilers/fender flares/wide tires.


So it's probably possible to get an 818 down to minimum weight for EM but it requires enough weight reduction that the car is no longer street legal. I'm sure there are those amongst us that are willing to be that aggressive with weight reduction -- I know I'm not. Reaching the minimum weights for XP is fairly easily attainable but ultimately the car is still subject to displacement to weight rules as any other car in XP.

I'm planning on writing the SEB and suggesting that while the car is certainly a fit in EM that it would also reasonably fit into XP as well with the higher minimum weights. This would permit 818 owners who do not want to strip their car down to reach EM minimum weights an alternate choice of class in which to compete.


Weight Calculations

EMod (assuming 180lb driver)

<= 2.2L Turbo/3.2L NA: 1700lb (base) + 50lb (tub penalty) - 180lb (driver) = 1570
> 2.2L Turbo/3.2L NA: 1800lb (base) + 50lb (tub penalty) - 180lb (driver) = 1670

XP


2.5L NA: 1200 + 2.5*200 (displacement modifier) + 2.5*20 (rear engine adjustment) = 1750
3.6L NA H6: 1200 + 3.6*200 (displacement modifier) + 3.6*20 (rear engine adjustment) = 1992


2.0L Turbo: 1200 + 2.0*200*1.4 (turbo displacement modifier) + 2.0*20 (rear engine adjustment) = 1800
2.5L Turbo: 1200 + 2.5*200*1.4 (turbo displacement modifier) + 2.5*20 (rear engine adjustment) = 1950

[D Clary]

I didn't see many street legal EM cars. If the 818 was modified to the degree of the sprite? There is not much Sprite left.