Anyone got FFR CAD design?

[Frank818]

In order to have VMan do some stuff for us, he needs screenshots of the CAD design.

A while back I thought I have seen someone who received the CAD design from FFR, or at least asked for it. Has anyone got it or could take screenshots of it?

Plz refer to http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8906-Vman-s-818-Design-Mod-s/page3 in order to see what is required and why.

[DodgyTim]

Are you after chassis or body?
www.turbosquid.com has a scan of the R in 3d for $149
30442

[Mechie3]

FFR does not share native cad. I've asked.

[Vman7]

Just need inscreen shots of the body. Don't need actual CAD files.

[Frank818]

If it's just the body, then shots of the R would be sufficient for the S, right? Cuz I think the body panels are all the same. And most probably hanger locations as well.

[Vman7]

If it's just the body, then shots of the R would be sufficient for the S, right? Cuz I think the body panels are all the same. And most probably hanger locations as well.

Well yes and no, with the R I would have go through and make it all the same color, which is a lot work.

I might just have to go up and check out Wallace18's 818 and take some good pictures.

CAD inscreen shots would be the best, since it would allow to get really accturate with everything.

Who knows something may come up on the CAD inscreen shots.

David

[Martin]

Are you after chassis or body?
www.turbosquid.com has a scan of the R in 3d for $149
30442

Did factory five really agree to let them do that and sell the files?

[Mechie3]

Did factory five really agree to let them do that and sell the files?

Doubt it. When I inquired about buying a small portion of a body panel CAD file they said since the lawsuit with Shelby they don't share anything. For that part above, it sounds like someone scanned it and made it available for "editorial purposes only". Such things don't require agreements as, if it was a scan, it's considered their work. They are selling their scanning services as a final product.

I just wonder how they got a hold of a finished 818.


The brand 'factory five' has been associated with this product. Editorial uses of this product are allowed, but other uses (such as within computer games) may require legal clearances from third party intellectual property owners.

[Mechie3]

Just read through HKV Studios website. Apparently they can make 3D models without actually having a real part.

[wleehendrick]

Just read through HKV Studios website. Apparently they can make 3D models without actually having a real part.

Of course they can... they might use a tomographic-like process with multiple 2D images from different angles, or just free-hand it. I just question the fidelity, though. Notice they say use models for "advertising, news, architecture, broadcast, games, training, film, the web, and just for fun" not to engineer aftermarket parts. ;)

[Mechie3]

I emailed to try and find out. Solidworks can import that file. Given how many hi-res shots FFR provided online, they could probably do a very good job. Just don't know if it's good enough. I think the advertising bit is more of a CYA than anything.

[Mechie3]

HKV replied with:


The model was built using only reference photos of the car. There was no blueprints available for the Factory Five 818 at that moment. So the accuracy of the 3D model is around 95%. I'm afraid it is not completely useful if you need the accuracy close to 100%. On the other hand, I'm not sure if you can find any model available on 3D market more accurate than our's. We use special techniques of layering the model mesh upon the photos, that give the most accurate result possible, if you have no blueprints available for a certain car.

Given how much adjustment/variation there is in body panels, 95% might actually be a tighter tolerance than some real cars depending on how well it's put together.

[CptTripps]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you had the body panels, you could have them laser-scanned and go from there.

I'd LOVE a Targa body kit for the 818. Especially if he's doing the "Version 3" body. I'd snap that up in a heartbeat.

[Mechie3]

You could have them scanned. I have a friend with access to a scanner (works for AMS) that offered to do some stuff. There were a few holdups such as the scanner is in Chicago, I'm not. He can only take small pieces in his car to Chicago. Doing a full car would take a day to scan and another day to render in solidworks most likely (at which point the offer for free might not be valid). After that, my model would be based on my car and how I aligned things. Not sure which is closer. A 95% accurate model or a 100% accurate model based on an inaccurate assembly.

[Frank818]

Not sure which is closer. A 95% accurate model or a 100% accurate model based on an inaccurate assembly.

Very good point.
Vman what do you think?

[CptTripps]

Wouldn't you just need to know the mounting points? Since the body is all new and custom, I'd think that just measurements from the tube frame would be plenty to build the skeleton. You could also use that as an opportunity to have other areas that may work better be the mounting points. The body dimensions aren't all that difficult to come up with. At least that's how I'd look at it...and I'm no CAD or Solidworks expert.

[Vman7]

Well I checked out the 818R at Turbosquid. Pretty close, but I do see somethings that are differenct from the real 818R. First thing that caught my eye was the headlights, they are not the same as the real car. Next is the line that run from the front fender to the rear at the top just below the top edge, it is more rounded on the real car. The front fender by the door doesn't come out as much as the real 818.

The more I look at the 818R Turbosquid model, it seems like they used the pictures FFR posted of their CAD model in the forums. So I am thinking Turbosquid based their model on the FFR posted CAD inscreen shots.

For me to use these would be alot of work to get it to look like the real 818. One no windshield in order to do a coupe, I have no reference points. 2 would have to clean up the whole body by getting rid of all the decals and get the body into one color.

Now as far as the rear goes, that I might be able to work with, providing that the inscreen shot can be moved down some.

I am very meticulous, I see things that most people wouldn't see.

From what I have seen on the Turbosquid model, probably better just to get some really good photo shots.

David

[Mechie3]

I noticed the overlap over the headlight wasn't quite the same. The model comes in different renderings. You can get it all in one color.

[bigAl]

Isn’t this all kind of futile?
FFR had tons of cool designs from their “contest” and still put out the in-house design, even though it was the least inspired of the bunch.
It is not so easy to go from an idea to makeable 3D surfaces and tooling, no matter what claims we hear about “fast prototyping” technology, etc.
FFR is not a huge company with tons of technology and development resources - and new technology is NOT really changing the reality here.
Maybe someone outside the company is willing to step up and take on the challenge of a new body/product development (to reality, not just pretty pictures) but I am not holding my breath. In the meantime, this is just a futile (and frustrating) exercise.

[Vman7]

I noticed the overlap over the headlight wasn't quite the same. The model comes in different renderings. You can get it all in one color.

Well that at least answers the color problem. Not having the 818S windshield is the biggest problem. Can probably use the front and rear views, even though the headlights aren't right.

I might post show insreen shots of the Turbosquid 818R to show the differences I am talking about.

David

[Vman7]

bigAl I would respond to your post #19 if it was in my thread, but this isn't my thread, so I won't.

[bigAl]

bigAl I would respond to your post #19 if it was in my thread, but this isn't my thread, so I won't.

So why say anything at all?

[Vman7]

So why say anything at all?

Mostly because it does need a response, because you are not seeing the big pictures that a bunch of us are in trying to develop other body parts and or a alt body. It doesn't happen overnight.

If you want to start a flaming war, I suggest you take it to some other forum.

[bigAl]

So give us your response.
And you are not the forum police the last time I checked.

[Mechie3]

Isn’t this all kind of futile?
FFR had tons of cool designs from their “contest” and still put out the in-house design, even though it was the least inspired of the bunch.
It is not so easy to go from an idea to makeable 3D surfaces and tooling, no matter what claims we hear about “fast prototyping” technology, etc.
FFR is not a huge company with tons of technology and development resources - and new technology is NOT really changing the reality here.
Maybe someone outside the company is willing to step up and take on the challenge of a new body/product development (to reality, not just pretty pictures) but I am not holding my breath. In the meantime, this is just a futile (and frustrating) exercise.

Ill play.

I dont think anyone is expecting, thinking, or seriously hoping FFR will use these. Rather its to show what can be done, have some fun, and maybe go farther. Im not a stranger to product design and prototyping. My day job is as a mechanical engineer for product design. My "night job" is designing components for the 818 that ive sold quite a few of and designing (and machining) parts for formula 500s. I had quotes for molds and parts of the 818 hood, engine cover, and trunk in carbon fiber and was going to go through with it before FFR requested I not.

Is there enough talent, know how, and resources to do this? Certainly. And if we dont? At least we had fun doing it. :)

Tripps, if the body is all new, then yes. The guys that helped with 33machines ev 818 made a solidworks model of the frame. Not sure ir theyd sell it or not. If making a replaceable hardtop then youd want to start with the original body.

[carbon fiber]

Isn’t this all kind of futile?
FFR had tons of cool designs from their “contest” and still put out the in-house design, even though it was the least inspired of the bunch.
It is not so easy to go from an idea to makeable 3D surfaces and tooling, no matter what claims we hear about “fast prototyping” technology, etc.
FFR is not a huge company with tons of technology and development resources - and new technology is NOT really changing the reality here.
Maybe someone outside the company is willing to step up and take on the challenge of a new body/product development (to reality, not just pretty pictures) but I am not holding my breath. In the meantime, this is just a futile (and frustrating) exercise. Seriously BigAl?! EVERYTHING that ever comes to fruition starts with a conversation. What have you done to help this community? 19 whole posts huh? I think Vman has a very developed eye for car design. (and passion for cars) It's not impossible to remake a body for a kit car with a tube chassis. How do I know? I'm doing it right now with the GTM. Back to the conversation.

[carbon fiber]

Maybe start with some simple overlays from the side and front/back measured to scale. (I know you still need proper pics - preferably form a tripod with the body on & then off from the same camera position) Checking basic points of reference, (doors, wheelbase, track, windshield, etc.) to see if you're in the ballpark. I know you designed the vantage body with the 818 in mind, but I'm talking about getting more specific with these measurements. That's where I'd start, making sure the frame mods would be minimal IF needed. Fabbing some new support brackets will be necessary. The trouble areas would be the doors/windshield in particular. Comparing windshield rake/relationship to the frame, etc. to see how much different the designs are now, and where/how to make changes if needed. How close is the Vantage design windshield to the 818 (MR2) windshield? Is the plan to keep the FFR supplied windshield in the new surround? Roll up windows are a must have, all you really need to do design wise is make sure the window will fit down into the door, the power window stuff can be adapted to work.

[Vman7]

Maybe start with some simple overlays from the side and front/back measured to scale. (I know you still need proper pics - preferably form a tripod with the body on & then off from the same camera position) Checking basic points of reference, (doors, wheelbase, track, windshield, etc.) to see if you're in the ballpark. I know you designed the vantage body with the 818 in mind, but I'm talking about getting more specific with these measurements. That's where I'd start, making sure the frame mods would be minimal IF needed. Fabbing some new support brackets will be necessary. The trouble areas would be the doors/windshield in particular. Comparing windshield rake/relationship to the frame, etc. to see how much different the designs are now, and where/how to make changes if needed. How close is the Vantage design windshield to the 818 (MR2) windshield? Is the plan to keep the FFR supplied windshield in the new surround? Roll up windows are a must have, all you really need to do design wise is make sure the window will fit down into the door, the power window stuff can be adapted to work.

Pretty much everything you said is how I go about designing stuff, at least from a photo(s) and scaling everything out, using reference points or objects like the rear tail lights since I know what size they are. Side view the wheelbase of course. The front is harder without measurements.

If we are talking about the Vantage 3.0, then there would most likely have to be frame mods and all the other stuff you talked about.

Now as far as the Vantage 4.0, there be very little frame mods, since the 4.0 version in simple terms is heavily modifying the body, but not the inside skin. The 818 door shape overall would pretty much stay the same, other then some detail changes to get it to look more like the Vantage. The same would apply to the rest of the body.

The Windshield on the Vantage is a 3rd gen Miata that was tucked down to get the right height. The miata and mr2 are pretty close, so I would say stay with the supplied 818 windshield. The side windows on both the Vantage 3.0 and the 818 I have already accounted for in size so they will fit when down. Just have to figure out the window regulators.

I talked about a wide body version, which at first may sound confusing since the 818/Vantage 4.0 really isn't made wider. It's mostly just getting rid of the 818 small fender flares and moving the side out to where the flares used to be, which would give the 818 a wider look. Anyhoot that is a discussion for over in my thread :)

David