CARB / SB100 and all that fun stuff

[CooperD]

I'm curious how the 818 is going to work in terms of registering it for use in California.

As I understand it, many kit cars are registered under SB100 (http://www.replicarclub.com/Newsletters/Tech_articles/Registering_your_car_in_California.pdf)as replicas of the body's model year, which allows them (in most cases) to be smog exempt.

How does this work with a car like the GTM or the 818 that is an original design, but not a one-off custom, and is clearly built on modern running gear?

Will it be required to maintain CARB certification matching the donor car? If so, I imagine that will seriously limit the customization that can be achieved with the engine.

I've read that even small changes from OEM, such as re-routing the headers can break CARB certification, and is often cited as a problem for California V8 Miatas.

Will any of this cause problems for building or customizing this car for registration in CA?

[Ray]

...How does this work with a car like the GTM or the 818 that is an original design, but not a one-off custom, and is clearly built on modern running gear?

From the DMV web page (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/spcns.htm)...

"Specially Constructed Vehicles Emission Control
What is the Specially Constructed Vehicle Emission Control Program?

Existing law requires most 1976 and newer model year vehicles to pass an emissions control inspection (smog check) prior to original registration, transfer of ownership, and every second annual renewal. Since Specially Constructed Vehicles (SPCNS) are homemade and do not have a manufacturer-assigned model year, they must be taken to a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Referee Station for the original inspection. Upon completion of the inspection, the referee will affix a tamper-resistant label to the vehicle and issue a certificate that establishes the model-year for future inspection purposes.

Per California Vehicle Code §4750.1, the first 500 program applicants in each calendar year may choose whether the inspection is based on the model-year of the engine used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year. If the engine or the vehicle does not sufficiently resemble one previously manufactured, the referee will assign 1960 as the model-year.

After the first 500 vehicles have been registered in any calendar year, all others will be assigned the same model-year as the calendar year in which the application is submitted.

Previously registered vehicles may be included as one of the first 500 applicants in a calendar year and apply for a different model-year determination."

Ray

[CooperD]

Sounds promising - have GTM owners been able to register as a 1960 model year then based on the body shape alone not "resembling" a previously manufactured car? Obviously the engine is contemporary.

[Ray]

Sounds promising - have GTM owners been able to register as a 1960 model year then based on the body shape alone not "resembling" a previously manufactured car? Obviously the engine is contemporary.

For that, I'd try to get a hold of one of the GTM builders that lives in CA and has gone through the registration process.

Ray

[68GT500MAN]

GTM builders have been able to register their vehicles using the SPCNS process, but I do not know the particulars as to the "year of manufacture" they used.
Doug

[Gollum]

I've actually talked to my local ref already. Usually you can just call it a current model year and be fine, as long as you can roughly say that you have a current passable emissions system. It doesn't have to be "oem" per say, because you're not getting a swap label. But it does have to comply with things like having a 3 way cat, having a EGR system (or similar technology that reduces nox), etc.

This would all be fine and dandy, but there's a new thing for either 2011 or 2012 coming up, I can't remember, that's a new networking standard that you'd have to pass as well. It's a new thing that has to do with every computer in the car being networked together to be able to send each other trouble codes and such. According to the current model, you'd have to have this system, kind of like if the car was registered as a '96 or newer you'd need a OBD-II computer.

I'm still working on it. It might end up not being a problem for people who are making their own and registering it to themselves, but it might be a serious problem for anyone trying to make one and sell it before registering it to themselves.

[16g-95gsx]

Interesting, is that just for CA?

[Gollum]

Yea, my post was CA-specific.

[Dave Smith]

Beyond the existing FFR models, I have been working with SEMA on legislation for small volume manufacturers at the federal level. The new car is very promising for export and obviously NHTSA/DOT and EPA considerations weigh heavily on the new design. I think we will have good luck here as we are on the right side of the economy and export needs of the US. Small in our case may be a big advantage. Still nothing to report beyond the current regs which vary State by State.

[CooperD]

Great to hear Dave - that's pretty exciting. And for Gollum, Ray, and 68GT500MAN, thanks for the insights. That's encouraging at least, and I will of course contact my local ref before diving in.

[Cooluser23]

I'm hoping that it'll be easier to register the 818 in California than the Factory Five GTM. I kind of feel abandoned by Factory Five when it comes to registering the car in California.

It would be nice if Factory Five compiles all the information/knowledge gained by previous Factory Five customers into one document and make it available to prospective customers from California. (maybe even link it to their home page)

Talking to fellow Factory Five enthusiasts, I know, FFR lost many sales due to California customers feeling ignored/abandoned by the company. I know several people who feel as if FFR doesn't take the California market seriously enough, or assumes CA residents will build track only cars.
I'm sure a significant portion of potential revenue for the upcoming 818 will be from California, if FFR will just help us California residents out a bit.

[Ray]

I'm hoping that it'll be easier to register the 818 in California than the Factory Five GTM. I kind of feel abandoned by Factory Five when it comes to registering the car in California.

It would be nice if Factory Five compiles all the information/knowledge gained by previous Factory Five customers into one document and make it available to prospective customers from California. (maybe even link it to their home page)

Talking to fellow Factory Five enthusiasts, I know, FFR lost many sales due to California customers feeling ignored/abandoned by the company. I know several people who feel as if FFR doesn't take the California market seriously enough, or assumes CA residents will build track only cars.
I'm sure a significant portion of potential revenue for the upcoming 818 will be from California, if FFR will just help us California residents out a bit.

I never felt abandoned by FFR at all during or after our build. Additionally, I don't know of a single replica or kit manufacturer that "assists" with the registration of their product in any State. Just look at the turn out for the last few Huntington Beach Pier outings sponsored by FFR. Hundreds of FFR's, from Roadsters, Coupes, GTM's, '33's and even a few Challenge cars.

Will GM, Ford, Toyota, etc. provide you with registration assistance if you move to another State, after you've bought one of their car's? Why would you expect FFR to do so?

If you are looking for help, it's here on this Forum, over at FFCars.com or, contact SEMA. If you'd like, send me an e-mail address and I can send you a SEMA document outlining registration requirements in all 50 States.

Ray

[Gollum]

I don't own a FFR vehicle, but from what I've seen FFR is one of the most active companies when it comes to getting legislations passed in our favor. They even keep people up to date with the important ones through their site.

If anything it's California that's been abandoning us, not FFR. CA doesn't seem to give a squawk about the hot rod market, despite it's history here. They consider the SB100 a major breakthrough, but it's almost just a joke. The process is over complicated for most, poor documented at best, and doesn't really fix the problem. It's a band-aid. Nothing more. I don't blame FFR for this. They're doing all that they can at the moment (from what I've seen).

[David]

Sounds promising - have GTM owners been able to register as a 1960 model year then based on the body shape alone not "resembling" a previously manufactured car? Obviously the engine is contemporary.

Yes, I did with one clarification. With SB100, you dont register as 1960. You register as the year built and get a smog exemption for the year 1960... and yes it worked for me when registering a GTM.

David

[CooperD]

^ excellent - thanks for the first hand report!

[Cooluser23]

Thanks for the first hand report. Please post more details, and I hope others can chime in with their first hand reports as well.