For all your machinist out there... Lathe, Mill questions

[Doowop]

I used to work on full size lathes and mills in industrial shops and at school when I was studying engineering, and I want to buy something for my shop. I have been looking online for what it available and I am not sure what to do. Basically, I could buy a full size mill and a full size lathe, but it takes a bunch of floor space, usually run on 480V which makes it a pain to switch to 240V. They make smaller ones and they also make combo units that have a mill, lathe, drill. They are pretty affordable and run on 120V or 240V. I have read a bunch of reviews online about those but it seems that there are more negative review than positives. As everything that you see online, it is hard to make an opinion as there are a lot of factors that get into the opinions, what you want to make, how tight your tolerances have to be, what time of material is used, how big of pieces you are thinking of making, etc.... For a real machinist that will be using the equipment everyday to make super specific parts, I understand that "real" full sizes unit would be the way to go, but all I want to use it for is to make mostly automotive products like brackets, spacers, turning down or resurfacing shafts, etc.....using steel and aluminum.
I am looking at something like:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combo-Lathe-Mill/G9729
http://www.boltonhardware.com/category/bolton-tools/metal-lathes-wood-lathes-milling-machines/combo-lathe-mill-drills/10-x-22-high-precision-variable-speed-combo-lathe.php
http://shopmasterusa.com/ which is a lot more expensive

please give me your insights on this. thanks

[K3LAG]

I have both a mini mill and lathe. Mine are MicroMark brand, but they are the same Sieg products sold by Harbor Freight, Grizzly and a bunch of others. They are very limited in capacity and they aren't very stiff. They are fine for small light stuff. The column on the mill can not be adjusted front and back for tramming so if the spindle isn't perfectly perpendicular to the bed it's a pain to adjust. Mine is off by about .001/inch. I mostly use it for pistol smithing so the size works for me, but if I had the space I would definitely go bigger/better.

Larry

[68GT500MAN]

Our pattern making shop uses the Shop Master that you have listed above and love it. I have even programed some simple parts out of bronze that have come out looking spectacular.
Doug

[Bill Waters]

I have been down this road before. I had a South Bend tool room lathe and other full-size equipment. Now I have a small Jet lathe and a Mill-drill. They work great for the things I need to do, which are small items such as you describe. This is hard for me to admit, since I tend to obsessively over-equip.

I cannot advise regarding combo machines.

While I would love to have the full-size stuff for the occasional job that requires them, most of the jobs are small. This situation is very much analogous to what I weld. I have a bunch of powerful welders, capable of welding anything. The one I reach for 95% of the time are my little Lincoln 180 MIG machines.

[michael everson]

Buy a small mill and a small lathe. Stay away from the combo machines
Mike

[JeffS]

You've mentioned several difficulties of larger machines, but I think the only legitimate reason you give is the footprint required. Given two otherwise capable machines its always nicer working on a machine with more mass... the accuracy is better, the surface finish is better... well you get the idea. The best way to get a sense of scale is to hang out at your local used machinery dealer and try a few things out. Clausing made a pretty nice small mill which is very compact and has a large and active Yahoo users group, and there are lots of small American and English lathes that you could look at.

Finding a machine wired for three phase can work to your advantage. Small variable speed electronic drives that convert 240V single phase to 208/240V three phase are easy to find for about $100/1HP and give you electronic soft-start, electronic braking, and variable speed operation... nice features. I actually purchased a Clausing lathe with a worn-out mechanical variable speed drive and replaced it with an electronic one... very common these days since the mechanical vari-speed unit replacement cost was $1600 at the time... twice what I paid for the entire lathe.

It all comes down to what you want to do and how far you might go with your machining hobby. If it will only ever be just a means to whip out a few brackets now and then perhaps a small Chinese combo unit will suffice. If you get hooked on making chips just for the fun of it, then I guarantee you will be looking for bigger, better, older machine tools down the road.

[skullandbones]

That shopmaster looks amazing. I think this is the one my friend's friend has who built him a nice billet aluminum mount for his telescope that also doubled as a hybrid mount for three different instruments. I saw the finished product. It was beautiful! It is CNC controlled so if you can design it, it can cut it out. I would have a hard time justifying the cost but custom one off parts would be awesome to set off your ride. That would also address the foot print issue better. Let us know what you finally get. WEK.

[Blitzkrieg]

We have this company by us where you pay per day or buy the month to go use thier machines. You have to take a class to use them. Its like $30 a day if you are going to go for just one day. And they buy all the tools and all that. So its a good price if you think about it. You should try to find a place like that. Cheaper to rent.

But you can't go wrong with a used bridge port :) if you have the space. Or a Tormach if they are in your price range. Lathes are a bit cheaper then mills, their are tons out there.

[Scargo]

As an ex-machinist I would also stay away from combo machines. If you've never machined before it might be a great experience or it still might leave you dissatisfied. In many cases you can make do with a cheap machine or a worn out South Bend lathe or old knee mill. It all depends on what you need and are willing to accept. I found most, but not all desktop mills to be weak and not very versatile. One I used vibrated badly.
Lathes are slightly different. Sometimes my drill press subs for a lathe. Almost any old lathe will function as a bushing or shim maker.
I could be wrong about Chinese import stuff; it may have come a long way in the past 5-10 years.

[Mechie3]

Clearly the correct answer is a 5 axis CNC and a CNC lathe with live tooling, dual spindles, and multiple turrets. :D

I'm in the same boat as you. I have access to awesome machines at work, but for one off jobs to sell I can't use them. I've been searching craigslist daily. I'm wary of combo machines. They tend to target the low cost crowd which isn't expecting as good of a surface finish or repeatability or large parts. They tend to do everything for a lower price, but not really do everything very well.

One thing I had looked at was the grizzly G0704. It has a good sized following that converts them into CNC's. They're mill/drill combos and not great for heavy cuts but for lighter cuts in aluminum seem to get good results.

[2bking]

The high voltage machinery is usually three phase and expensive to convert to single phase even if possible. I started out with a small lathe and quickly figured out I wasted money on it. I graduated to a large mill and full size lathe (240V) but it took a few years to get here. I couldn't afford larger machinery back then and have used the smaller ones quite a bit. The combo machines limit the size of stock you can load and have small table travel and aren't very stiff so you can't take large cuts. Even with small cuts, surface finish isn't very good. Loading a part on the mill table on a combo machine and making a 6" cut is almost impossible.

The tools and related equipment will get to be just as expensive as the machine itself. Check Craig's List for local sales. The best value is in used equipment with digital read out and tools included. There are lots of garages with the machinery you are looking for that get sold for one reason or another.

[Racebrewer]

Ditto. Avoid the combo stuff.

Sometimes used American machines can be the best deal, if not badly worn. I have a South Bend lathe that is older than I am. When the motor died, I converted it to a three phase with a VFD to control it. Three phase gives a better finish to what you are machining.

In small stuff, Taiwanese is usually better than Chinese. I have a Rong Fu bench mill than can hold .0005" over a foot.

Check ENCO and MSC and get on their monthly sale list.

John

[Doowop]

thanks for all the answers guys. It's a tough choice. I haven't work on mills and lathes for 15 years, and they always were the big heavy duty ones, so it's hard to know what the small or medium duty ones are capable off. it seems that converting a 240V 3 phase to a single phase is easy but more complicated and costly for a 460V or 480V machine.
It is also hard to do what it will really be used for and how big of pieces I will need to be making. As far as I can tell, it will be mostly automotive stuff so nothing too big.
Also, if I look at a used one, I'm not really sure what to look at to see if t is a good machine and completely worn out. I would think the play in the controls would be what is most important. I was thinking of a max budget of 4-5K
the shopmaster seems like a decent one especially because it has cnc already on it.......
decisions, decisions....... I need to find a local shop of used equipment around Denver