Alminum Panels? Paint / Polish / Powdercoat

[Mslone]

Hello,

I have read a few different post about the Aluminum Panels and how people are prepping them?

Some say you really need to Powder coat them.

I'm a fairly conservative guy and really don't like to toss money at unnecessary upgrades... Maybe I'm not fully getting the grasp of it yet because I have not started my build, but seems to me its pointless to powdercoat stuff that is going to be hidden under glue, hushmat & Carpet? I guess I can see the Engine bay.

I was honestly just considering either painting black, or cleaning them up and clear coating them? or maybe doing nothing....


So how did you handle your Aluminum Panels? And Why? Any Issues or Regrets?

Any Advice would be great!

Just trying to measure twice and cut once on this build!

Thanks,

Michael

[Arvin]

I'm just now building mine now so may not be alot of info for you - I had mine clear powdercoated with a matte finish. First, I sanded all the imperfections out with 320 sand paper using a random orbital sander, then I finished with scotch brite to make the grain go in one direction. I then cleaned with Acetone. I like how they turned out.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e90/cobraarvin/1965%20Cobra%20Build/5-4-14/IMG_0947_zpsbdbdcf82.jpg (http://s37.photobucket.com/user/cobraarvin/media/1965%20Cobra%20Build/5-4-14/IMG_0947_zpsbdbdcf82.jpg.html)

[Bren]

I'd also be interested in seeing photos of plain aluminum panels after a few years of driving.

[Mslone]

Thanks for the response! My FF Rep told me to just assetone them and apply some sharkskin and be done with it! To not waste money treating things that are 75% hidden from sight! I tend to agree!


I'm just now building mine now so may not be alot of info for you - I had mine clear powdercoated with a matte finish. First, I sanded all the imperfections out with 320 sand paper using a random orbital sander, then I finished with scotch brite to make the grain go in one direction. I then cleaned with Acetone. I like how they turned out.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e90/cobraarvin/1965%20Cobra%20Build/5-4-14/IMG_0947_zpsbdbdcf82.jpg (http://s37.photobucket.com/user/cobraarvin/media/1965%20Cobra%20Build/5-4-14/IMG_0947_zpsbdbdcf82.jpg.html)

[2bking]

Arvin, yours look very good. Would you care to say what cost is incurred to get them powder coated?

I agree with the RO sand and Scotch Brite but I didn't try to rub in one direction. I sprayed them with clear Diamond Coat but that is a pain because it is a urethane base paint (very hard and durable) and has to be handled like POR 15. For other panels I painted I used the commercial Rustoleum Clear and they seemed to turn out just as good. I was planning on using Sharkhide and got some but it is something like a wipe on lacquer that the manufacture says is good for a couple of years. I wanted something more durable. The natural finish makes a pretty good radiant heat barrier but I plan to add polished stainless heat shields spaced off the panels where the headers are close to the panels.

[4.6 litre]

Mslone,

Great question, besides reading the Forum, I read another vendor's build manual on the internet. They have great information on interior panel painting, sound control (SC) and insulation control (IC). If you haven't found it yet, PM me. It's my understanding that powder coating is just used for corrosion protection. I've read on the Forums where builders have painted the panels themselves and some have left them unpainted.

At the present time, panel painting has become a secondary consideration for me. I'm going to follow MPtech's advice and hold off painting panels and just cleco-up my build first. I'm considering using Lizard Skin for sound and insulation control, beside water protection but first I need to determine which panels will get it. I may come to the conclusion that it will cost the same to have all the panels powder coated and then have some panels Lizard-Skinned. At least this is how it looks to me now. This may all change based on the responses to you initial question. Keep asking the questions you’re spot on.

Regards,

4.6L

[CraigS]

Mine are uncoated cause that's what the original builder did. Next time I have the engine out they will get painted w/ Rustoleum Hammered paint.
http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/universal/universal-hammered-spray-paint
I really like this paint. It goes on easily, you actually want a heavy coat to get the hammered effect so there is little problem w/ runs if you get a little too heavy. It dries quickly. And, due to the finish, it is easy to touch up if needed. I just came across this version which I will need to try
http://www.rustoleum.com/en/product-catalog/industrial-brands/high-performance/spray-paint/v2100-system-hammered-finish-spray-paint

[CHOTIS BILL]

I have made several racecars and left the aluminum panels plain and it didn't take very long for them to start to oxidize and start looking shabby. IMO all panels should have some type of protection even if they can only be seen from under the car. It only takes a little time and expense to paint or apply Lizard Skin/Sharkhide and if I didn't I would kick myself everytime I was under the car and looking a shabby looking panal. I have also tried painting the engine compartment different collors and found black made the whole area dark and not as easy to work on because of less of light. I tried white but it was harder to keep looking clean. I ended up setteling on light gray which looks about the same as clear over brushed aluminum. The Rustoleum Hammered paint also sounds like it would do a good job if it was a light color. I went with power coating all the panals sound even if they can't be seen but it will helps deaden the tinney sound. I paid $450 to get all the aluminum panals done in bright silver and the aluminum seats.battery box, and clutch fork done in black.

JMO

Bill Lomenick

[edwardb]

This is another one of those questions that's discussed a lot. My two cents worth... There are no right or wrong answers. It all depends on you and what you want for your build. Unless you live by the ocean and salt air or plan to drive on salted winter roads (!!) then the bare aluminum will hold up just fine. It will turn a dark grey patina that some people like. Some of the wipe-on finishes like Sharkhide will keep the aluminum more silver and offer some protection. According to their website it will last up to six years. I've seen some amazing builds where the aluminum was polished. Very cool but way too much work for me. There's no question powder coat is the most durable and chemical resistant. But paint is a perfectly acceptable alternative. There are lots of varieties, e.g. rattle can, full-up automotive paint, etc. Again, just depends on what you want.

For my builds, I've done powder coat on both. The silver in my Mk3 was done in 2009, and looks as good today as the day it was applied. I'm doing my Mk4 build in gloss black. Love the look, but I can tell it's going to need more maintenance. It shows every spec of dust. Personally, I build my cars for driving plus I like to do cruise-ins and shows including occasional judging. I like opening the hood and seeing everything clean and polished. So do other people (and judges). Same thing for the underside. Is it authentic? Probably not. But it's what I want and what I like, so for me part of the enjoyment. I was parked next to a 1930 Ford at a cruise-in last night. Gorgeous car. Authentic? Not so much. I guarantee it didn't look anywhere near that nice when it rolled off the line in Dearborn 84 years ago. Again, just depends on what you want.

Regarding finish on panels that are covered up, yes that's a point. But there are nearly no panels that don't have at least one side showing somewhere, whether it's in the engine bay, in the trunk, in the wheel wells, on the underside of the car (if that's important to you), etc. My powder coater quoted me the same price to do all sides of all the pieces vs. only selective sides. The main cost is in the labor, and it just takes more time. The powder is cheap and the oven is the same either way. Easier for him just to hang them all and treat all the same. Keep in mind it's not just flat panels but also edges in some case. Regarding cost, my Mk4 was $700 to have everything done in gloss black. That included some smaller parts I fabricated, the gas tank (new) and straps, battery box, etc. Given the overall cost of the build, pretty reasonable I think.

One last comment. I'm personally not in the school of "don't permanently attach panels until you have to." Not quite getting that one. There's a definite order to things, and if you plan no reason to be taking panels on and off all the time IMO. Absolutely for every step you need to make sure you're not covering anything up, creating interference for something in the future, not leaving yourself room to work, etc. But (again) no right or wrong way here. Do what works best for you. Good luck with your build!

[MPTech]

Sorry Edward, we don't agree on this point. That's ok, maybe you are more experienced than I am. I know I've had some of these panels off many times and I'm glad I didn't have them riveted in and have to worry about scratching them. I've also removed them much later and made modifications (clearancing, drilling and inserting grommets, refitting, etc). I agree, it was more work, but I'm glad I didn't permanently install them up front.

One last comment. I'm personally not in the school of "don't permanently attach panels until you have to." Not quite getting that one.

I really like the brushed aluminum look, so I bought boxes of 50: 120, 200, 300, and 600 grit pads off amazon to prepare my panels with the random orbital, before using the scotch brite pads. It was a little time-consuming, messy, and my fingers started to cramp and go numb after hours with the orbital. But the feelings came back and really happy with the results. I also coated them with SharkHide and it came out well, but I couldn't figure out the trick to multiple coats, so everything got 1 good coat. I also coated the outside surfaces with Spray-on truck-bed liner. Really gives them a finished look from the wheel wells. Make sure to tape up the newly SharkHide'd surface well, before spraying on the truck-bed liner. I didn't do a go job on one panel and had to completely strip it and start over.

I think the brushed aluminum and touches of polished stainless steel really set off the engine compartment. I've also seen really desirable results with the Silver HammerTone paint too. I also like that look. Black looks really nice but like mentioned, tough to keep clean and dark. I wouldn't recommend leaving the bare aluminum un-protected.

My newly finished panels:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/IMG_1895_zps35b0f69e.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/IMG_1886_zps4f93b4e9.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/IMG_1889_zps2f7a8b93.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/IMG_1894_zps7938fe15.jpg

And the completed footboxes, splash guards, and fresh-air vents.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/IMG_2003_zps77b3cab2.jpg

with the Stainless Steel heatshields
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/IMG_2004_zpsb4270d5e.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/IMG_2005_zpsa42070e5.jpg

[edwardb]

Sorry Edward, we don't agree on this point. That's ok, maybe you are more experienced than I am. I know I've had some of these panels off many times and I'm glad I didn't have them riveted in and have to worry about scratching them. I've also removed them much later and made modifications (clearancing, drilling and inserting grommets, refitting, etc). I agree, it was more work, but I'm glad I didn't permanently install them up front.

No worries. I don't know if it's experience or just that at some point it becomes more work getting the panels in and out than just being done with it and permanently attaching. Assuming you've thought everything through, mocked up everything, etc. But like I said, no right or wrong answers in this case. Everyone has their work styles and opinions, and as I said to the OP he has to decide what works best for him. Now having said that, I just remembered I haven't yet permanently attached the DS outer side or top footbox panels on my Mk4 build. Don't expect to make them permanent until right before installing the body for the last time.

So I guess I'm a little in that camp. ;)

[Gale K]

Another option that has not been discussed: anodized panels. I went that route, and it is very good for corrosion resistance. Simple Green with a maroon 3M pad to lightly scuff all panels "going with the grain" of the aluminum, rinsed off, then sent to the anodizer. I did a "clear" finish, so it turned out in a nice aluminum matte look. IIRC, it was around $600 for every single piece of aluminum that came with the kit.

I agree that a lot of the pieces (and I mean a lot) are covered up, unseen, or otherwise not visible. But, I'm happy that they are protected from the aluminum oxide corrosion that will work away on bare aluminum.

[4.6 litre]

The MK 4 Build Manual on the internet recommends either powder coating or anodizing the panels for corrosion, with powder coating being the preference. Based on your input I will either spray or powder coat the aluminum panels on both sides. Thanks for helping me come to that conclusion

Now if you can help me finalize how I’m going to do the interior/exterior SC/IC. I'm doing the Coyote and I know that the headers are close to the DS FB and even after making the DS FB mods, I believe some form of IC will be required either internally or externally. In the engine compartment would you use lizard skin for SC/IC or use some type of matting? Or could I just depend on using lizard skin in the interior cockpit and trunk areas only for SC/IC. I liked the idea of spraying lizard skin rather than doing mats on the interior but spraying required a lot of masking in the cockpit area which maybe a PITA. Can you give me some advice on this? And finally should lizard skin be used as a body undercoating and should you not like lizard skin, can you recommend an alternative?

I feel like a cat trying to fight its way out of a paper bag so your recommends, regardless of what they are, will be greatly appreciated. I’ve been going over this in my head for about 2 weeks now so I’m very glad Mslone raised the issue.

Thanks,
4.6l

[edwardb]

Here is a thread I did over on the other forum about the Lizard Skin application during my Mk4 build.

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/342954-lizard-skin-application-experience.html.

This maybe answers some of your questions and gives some visuals to the whole process. I like Lizard Skin very much, and used the same on my Mk3. Yes, it's a bit of a pain to mask, but you end up with a nice finished produced and it really seals everything up. The heat and sound properties seem to be about right for our cars.

I know some guys use Lizard Skin for exposed areas, e.g. inside the engine compartment, as an undercoat, etc. But it is a latex product so isn't nearly as hard or durable as a solvent or catalyst based undercoat material. It wouldn't personally be my choice to use in this way, but then again that's only my opinion.

For my SBF builds, I've found that Lizard Skin on the inside gives more than adequate heat/sound insulation. I feel virtually no heat in the footboxes, and I've done some long cruises on pretty hot days. I personally haven't found the need to put panels or insulation on the engine side. But I've seen lots of pictures where guys have.

For undercoating, are you referring to the bottom of the chassis or the bottom (underside) of the fiberglass body? If you're talking about the bottom of the chassis, I haven't done anything other than powder coat on both of my builds. Looks good, is easy to clean, and I get zero noise or "pinging" from anything from the road. The only time I hear anything hitting underneath is occasionally in the wheel wells. There I do recommend using an undercoat. Many use one of the truck bedliner products. They are perfect for this application. Typically at least one coat all over the entire body underside, and several coats in the wheel wells.

[Avalanche325]

I polished my engine bay panels then coated with Sharkhide. Make sure you LOVE this look before you do it. It is VERY labor intensive.

http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t474/Avalanche325/IMG_0464_zpsaff540eb.jpg (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/Avalanche325/media/IMG_0464_zpsaff540eb.jpg.html)

[4.6 litre]

Here is a thread I did over on the other forum about the Lizard Skin application during my Mk4 build.

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/342954-lizard-skin-application-experience.html.

This maybe answers some of your questions and gives some visuals to the whole process. I like Lizard Skin very much, and used the same on my Mk3. Yes, it's a bit of a pain to mask, but you end up with a nice finished produced and it really seals everything up. The heat and sound properties seem to be about right for our cars.

I know some guys use Lizard Skin for exposed areas, e.g. inside the engine compartment, as an undercoat, etc. But it is a latex product so isn't nearly as hard or durable as a solvent or catalyst based undercoat material. It wouldn't personally be my choice to use in this way, but then again that's only my opinion.

For my SBF builds, I've found that Lizard Skin on the inside gives more than adequate heat/sound insulation. I feel virtually no heat in the footboxes, and I've done some long cruises on pretty hot days. I personally haven't found the need to put panels or insulation on the engine side. But I've seen lots of pictures where guys have.

For undercoating, are you referring to the bottom of the chassis or the bottom (underside) of the fiberglass body? If you're talking about the bottom of the chassis, I haven't done anything other than powder coat on both of my builds. Looks good, is easy to clean, and I get zero noise or "pinging" from anything from the road. The only time I hear anything hitting underneath is occasionally in the wheel wells. There I do recommend using an undercoat. Many use one of the truck bedliner products. They are perfect for this application. Typically at least one coat all over the entire body underside, and several coats in the wheel wells.

Thanks for the input. Wouldn't it be easier to spray each of the cockpit and trunk panels with lizard skin before installation and than after installation just re-spray all the seams? In this way I wouldn't have to mask off all of the interior or is this taking too much of a chance?

Thank goodness I don't have to do the chassis under-body. Wheel wells sounds good to me. I'm also going to paint any exposed metal parts that can possibly rust and I like the idea of a gray color. I was originally think of doing everything in black but now I convinced, gray is the way to go.

My Coyote will be here May 24th. The Complete Kit comes May 29th. Since I'm over 64 I'll have a lot of time to do this so I'm proceeding cautiously. I'll cleco this thing to dead first.

Thanks a lot guys. I can put this one to bed for the time being. On to the next "Opportunity for Success" (that's what we call problems in the aerospace industry).

4.6L

[4.6 litre]

I polished my engine bay panels then coated with Sharkhide. Make sure you LOVE this look before you do it. It is VERY labor intensive.

http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t474/Avalanche325/IMG_0464_zpsaff540eb.jpg (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/Avalanche325/media/IMG_0464_zpsaff540eb.jpg.html)

That Look is awesome. I haven't even began to contemplate a Look like that.

Regards,

4.6L

[edwardb]

Thanks for the input. Wouldn't it be easier to spray each of the cockpit and trunk panels with lizard skin before installation and than after installation just re-spray all the seams? In this way I wouldn't have to mask off all of the interior or is this taking too much of a chance?

Interesting idea. But no I don't think this would be easier. In fact, I thank way harder. The Lizard Skin is pretty thick and I wouldn't want to be digging through all that to set rivets. Plus you would still want to mask even if only spraying the seams. At best if would be uneven and likely not seal as well as it could if applied in one application. If the masking is too much or a barrier, than look at any of the many peel and stick products. They also do a very good job.

Good luck with your build and enjoy the process. I personally find it very satisfying and enjoyable.

[4.6 litre]

Interesting idea. But no I don't think this would be easier. In fact, I thank way harder. The Lizard Skin is pretty thick and I wouldn't want to be digging through all that to set rivets.

Good discussion, I think I see all the options now. This Forum is just fabulous.

Thanks again,
4.6L

[CraigS]

Regarding color, look at pics of any pro series race cars and I think you will find engine compartments are nearly always white, silver, or light grey. It makes finding leaks etc a lot easier.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've posted this before but here goes again---maybe you'll find it helpful. I knew going in that I am not ambitious enough to polish the panels or dedicated enough to maintain them afterward if i was to do so and looked at some other options besides simply leaving the visible aluminum raw. Because it would be getting covered with carpet anyway I first experimented with the Hammertone on the trunk floor but wasn't happy with the results. Next I looked into powdercoating but couldn't get my local guy to commit to either a timeframe or ballpark price, so one Saturday morning I just grabbed the bull by the horns and did this:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/100_0417.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/100_0420.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/100_0423.jpg

The recipe---
After drilling and fitting clean the panels with acetone to take off the surface oxydation and ink marking. Use a medium grit (green or gray) scotchbrite pad, and make long straight strokes to get a consistent "brushed" grain. I've heard of some guys doing this wet or with WD40 but I preferred the results by just doing it dry. Next clean them again with acetone and when you arent getting any more black on your rag follow up with lacquer thinner and blow them dry. Go with 2-4 coats of rattle can "crystal clear" from Rustoleum. Finally bake it on. For pieces small enough put them in the oven at 250 for 20 minutes or so (did I mention my wife was out of town when I did this ;)). For panels that were too large I focused a double 500 watt halogen light stand on them for an hour or so. The finish winds up hard and has proven to be durable and unaffected by engine compartment heat.

I did the engine bay, trunk sides & front wall, and the nose aluminum. After 6 driving seasons and 16,000+ miles it has held up well. A wipedown with quick detail spray every so often to get rid of dust and road grime keeps it looking like the day it was installed.

BTW, for things like the outsides of the footboxes and inside wheelwells on splash panels, etc. I scuff them up with a coarse Scotchbrite to provide some tooth, clean with acetone and then apply a couple coats of 3M rubberized undercoating.

Good luck with whatever you decide to go with,
Jeff

[Mslone]

I've posted this before but here goes again---maybe you'll find it helpful. I knew going in that I am not ambitious enough to polish the panels or dedicated enough to maintain them afterward if i was to do so and looked at some other options besides simply leaving the visible aluminum raw. Because it would be getting covered with carpet anyway I first experimented with the Hammertone on the trunk floor but wasn't happy with the results. Next I looked into powdercoating but couldn't get my local guy to commit to either a timeframe or ballpark price, so one Saturday morning I just grabbed the bull by the horns and did this:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/100_0417.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/100_0420.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/100_0423.jpg

The recipe---
After drilling and fitting clean the panels with acetone to take off the surface oxydation and ink marking. Use a medium grit (green or gray) scotchbrite pad, and make long straight strokes to get a consistent "brushed" grain. I've heard of some guys doing this wet or with WD40 but I preferred the results by just doing it dry. Next clean them again with acetone and when you arent getting any more black on your rag follow up with lacquer thinner and blow them dry. Go with 2-4 coats of rattle can "crystal clear" from Rustoleum. Finally bake it on. For pieces small enough put them in the oven at 250 for 20 minutes or so (did I mention my wife was out of town when I did this ;)). For panels that were too large I focused a double 500 watt halogen light stand on them for an hour or so. The finish winds up hard and has proven to be durable and unaffected by engine compartment heat.

I did the engine bay, trunk sides & front wall, and the nose aluminum. After 6 driving seasons and 16,000+ miles it has held up well. A wipedown with quick detail spray every so often to get rid of dust and road grime keeps it looking like the day it was installed.

BTW, for things like the outsides of the footboxes and inside wheelwells on splash panels, etc. I scuff them up with a coarse Scotchbrite to provide some tooth, clean with acetone and then apply a couple coats of 3M rubberized undercoating.

Good luck with whatever you decide to go with,
Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks for the reply! This is the stuff I love! guys figuring out how to get it done simple and easy! I'm a Big fan of the KISS Method!


Thanks,
Michael

[bill3422]

Powder coated mine. Makes the engine stand out a little more

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag139/bill3422/Cobra%20Build/IMG_0678_zpsb4c1b8a6.jpg (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/bill3422/media/Cobra%20Build/IMG_0678_zpsb4c1b8a6.jpg.html)

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag139/bill3422/Cobra%20Build/IMG_0674_zps584297a1.jpg (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/bill3422/media/Cobra%20Build/IMG_0674_zps584297a1.jpg.html)

[DaleG]

Looks nice, adds value, prevents corrosion (actually the oxidation forms a protective layer). But, if you are on a tight budget, it won't hurt to leave them alone. On my MK II all I did was cover the engine bay side cockpit aluminum with heat blanket and left all other surfaces that were exposed to the elements (F-panels, wheel wells, cockpit and trunk undersides) all bare. As mentioned above they get a bit dull, but are out of site. No issues after the nine years I had it on the road. Going the same way this time around except powdercoating only the stuff that shows (F-panels, etc.).

[carlewms]

Michael,

I basically did what Jeff did with a slightly different recipe but used SharkHide to finish it off. So far I have only used one quart can of SharkHide and I think I can finish with out buying another.

When working with the aluminum, beware that they are very easy to scratch so have a few sanding flapper wheels on hand to clean these "mistakes" up.

If budget is the driving factor, then a natural finish as is or treated with a clear coat paint or SharkHide are the way to go. I also chose the more natural look because the originals had the same look (although now with a heavy patina).

I have also used SharkHide on almost every other metal component as a protective layer.

My two cents...

Carl