Body Work Estimate - Trying to Budget but getting concerned/confused...

[Gmcole92]

I have been talking to local body shops about prepping and painting the car when the time comes. I was expecting some variations based on type of shop, paint, etc....but I'm getting such a wide range that now i'm concerned/confused. I contacted a local hot rod specialist who has done a dozen or so FFR kits. He scared the crap out of me....here is what he said:


Fiberglass is a mess and quality varies greatly depending on who at FFR sets the mold.
Requires 60 to 80 hours just to prep the body
Must "feather fill" everything
Undercoating of body is required and very time consuming
"good" but not great paint job will be $12K.....high end will be $18K


I take all this with a grain of salt, but the guy has experience and turns out some amazing cars. HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS:


Other than trimming/fitting the body panels and some minor filling and shaping, what needs to be done?
What have you paid for the body/paint?



Much appreciated!!!

[j.miller]

He is correct as far as the bodywork goes 50-60 hours to trim, fit and bodywork before first prime. Takes me an hour to undercoat wheel wells and engine compartment (don't need to do the whole underside) (you won't see through the underside. Comes down to hourly rates and if they really want to touch fiberglass. When I did production work (many moons ago) when a Corvette came in we all hid in the bathroom because none of us wanted to itch all day. Not every shop is well versed in fiberglass. Real world price to run a shop at a profit (which is why you opened the doors) should start at 10k on up. We trim, fit, bodywork,paint,color sand ,polish and return the body to the chasis mounting hood,doors,deck and latches for 6k. My shop is on my property and I love what I do. I want to keep doing FFR's so I try to keep the price down.....It's a lot of work but you guys are worth it. 500+ roadsters and I feel i've had the best customers anyone could ask for...da Bat

[edwardb]

Great input from Jeff, and I certainly can't add anything to his comments. I can identify with your "concerned/confused" comment. For my Mk3 build, the paint/finish cost was my biggest surprise. But a couple observations from my experience. First, describing the body as a "mess" I think is an overstatement. Reflects history to some extent where the bodies weren't as good as now or justification for a high quote. Maybe both. Assuming you're talking about a Mk4, they are vastly improved and still take a lot of work. But the amount of time required to repair, etc. is reduced from the past. In my experience the hood and trunk fit is much improved. The doors are still a bit of a challenge. The molded cockpit roll is a cost saver compared to adding these on previous Mk's. My personal experience when getting quotes for my Mk3 a couple years ago ranged from $6-8K to double that or even "no quote." It seems that some body shops treat these as fill jobs or just don't know enough about them so give a big quote to cover themselves. My experience also is that some of the high end custom shops (sounds like what you're describing) do incredible work and tout their show car wins, etc. But the quotes reflect that. Unless that's what you want or are willing to pay for, there are other options. These two threads discuss the subject in some detail including my Mk3 experience.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?6917-What-should-body-work-and-paint-cost

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?13433-Dumb-question-(probably)-about-paint-and-bodywork&highlight=paint

[Gmcole92]

Thanks...extremely helpful.

[68GT500MAN]

Where are you located? Jeff does accept cars from all over the country so that is an option for you to consider.
Doug

[Ray]

Jodi and I did our car (with the help and guidance of some great people) and now know why you should send the car to someone like Jeff. My dream is to save up enough to send our Roadster to him and have it re-done. It looks great now, but we can see some things that we missed etc. Send it to a pro.....Jeff does work nationwide, guys ship their bodies to him from all over and I haven't heard a single complaint about Jeff's work (or Ken's either by the way.) Depending on where you live, there are also FFR pros in the South/East area as well.

Just my $2.00 worth of advise ($0.02 adjusted for inflation.)

[Ray]

Where are you located? Jeff does accept cars from all over the country so that is an option for you to consider.
Doug

He is in Leesburg, Virginia

Ray

[Jeff Kleiner]

...We trim, fit, bodywork,paint,color sand ,polish and return the body to the chasis mounting hood,doors,deck and latches for 6k...

Batty,
Thanks for your input. Since paint pricing fluctuates significantly depending on colors, solids vs. metallics vs. micas or pearls, etc. am I correct to assume that 6k is labor and the actual material cost is on top of that?

I've had guys tell me that shops have given them open ended labor quotes starting at $10k "and up". Most have at least been upfront enough with the prospective customer to inform them that it will be fill in work for when the collision business is slow and don't even attemp to give a time for completion. I've seen and done enough of them (nothing like Miller, but a few) to know what it takes and will say that you earn every penny but estimating/quoting 5 figures is outrageous. I think that these shops with the high dollar estimates are either (A) trying to take somebody for a ride, (B) don't know what they're getting into and are scared of loosing their keester or (C) simply don't want the work.

Jeff

[Mslone]

I'm doing it all myself, (Body and Paint ) It's on my bucket list, Just like building the car...

My dad was a Paint and Body man when I was a Kid and I never painted a car but helped sand...etc. We did our share of Muscle Car Restorations... My old man would tell you painting a car is not rocket science... Just tedious and requires lots of Prep work. If your willing to put in the time you can save yourself 10k on the build. He turned out some amazing looking cars in 1 car 11x25 home garage...

Sand down the ruff stuff fill it sand, block sand... Repeat as needed... Color prime, Sand, Sand & Sand some more... until every angle looks correct.. Seal it, Final Sand it... Clean it... and then make sure you have a very clean environment, Basically build a paint booth with plastic sheets give it some ventilation ( There are several youtube videos on making a quick garage Paint booth )

Get a Decent Paint Gun, I have been looking at Eastwood, They make some very affordable good guns, I think their Concours HVLP gun runs on a home compressor and has great ratings for about 200.00. I plan to do some recon/Research on all this at SEMA in November!

http://www.eastwood.com/ew-concours-gun-1-2-and-1-4-tips-plastic-andmetal-cup.html

You will need to add the proper condensation filters to your lines but that is a minimal cost.

Then watch some youtube videos of how to properly hold the gun, lay the patterns...etc ( Eastwood sells a Paint your own car DVD series ) that covers this info.

Lay down the Base Coats.

Lay down Several coats of Clear so its nice and deep.

Color sand imperfections and Buff to a Glass Shine.

The key will be to get the panels aligned, trimmed perfect and fitting great. Then its just Fill, Sand, Fill Sand... How good it turns out is all in the preparation! My dad would say Painting is Easy that it is ALL IN THE PREPERATION...

So don't be scared... These are small cars... Not like your paining a Chevy Suburban... God gave us the internet and youtube....

I plan on posting a Thread when I get to Paint stage... But My car does not even arrive until July...so may be a couple years....

[Gumball]

I never did bodywork in my life until May 2013 - then for the next seven months I lived it. Here's a link to my bodywork how-to: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?7645-Chris-Bodywork-Thread-Mk3-1

I didn't keep track of actual hours, but a really good estimation of my time alone is just over 400 hours. That's estimated actual work time... not just time hanging out in my shop. Since I'm not a pro, much of that time was spent experimenting and working through all the different mods I did on my car. In the end, I turned it over to a friend who has a bodyshop and he did the final blocking, then sealer, paint, clear, and cut/buff. He said that I had it really close and that it didnt' need much, but it still cost me a fair amount for his time (probably another 50 - 60 hours) and the materials - as others pointed out, primers, sealers, paint, and clear are expensive.

Here are a couple pics of the finished product:

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/IMG_20140419_134155749_zps2931b214.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/IMG_20140419_134155749_zps2931b214.jpg.html)

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/IMG_20140419_134222743_zps3f9f6bb2.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/IMG_20140419_134222743_zps3f9f6bb2.jpg.html)

[CraigS]

Some of the cost variation is due to what you want or what the body shop thinks you want. I look at a lot of body threads and many are doing a ton of filling here and there. If the goal is that a reflection of a horizontal straight line in the side of the car looks straight along the front fender and the door and the rear fender that will be expensive. If what you want is the seems to be properly filled and smoothed and the doors, hood and trunk lid fit their respective openings that will be a lot less expensive. My car was painted in Cumberland Md for $3500 4 years ago. It is a very nice but not show quality job and I am quite happy w/ it. I autocross and drive my car a lot on the street and it now has plenty of small stone chips. Looks fine to me as I never wanted a show car, I wanted and I got a driver. Email or PM me if you want more info.Use FFR paint or similar as the subject.

[j.miller]

Jeff Kleiner, That's with paint.Any color solid or Met but not 3 stage.

[Dan Babb]

Another option for you is to give Whitby Motorcars a call and get a quote from Jeff Collins.

They're down here in Greensboro and only about a 5hr drive for you. They do tons of FFRs and for the local quotes you're getting, it's worth the time to rent a trailer and bring the car down here. I believe they can also workout delivering the car back to you when it's done...but check with Jeff on that.

http://www.whitbymotorsports.com/UHome.asp

[skullandbones]

My experience with body shops is limited but my first job. was in one at 14. I can tell you that most are not interested in getting bogged down in a project that will cost them more time than usual. If they haven't the experience with fiberglass and especially with these cars, I would run away. You don't want to be their "guinea pig". IF you get a decent estimate from one of these, it could cost you because they might cut corners when they realize how much work is involved. That happened to me with a contractor building our house.

So get the project details in writing and go over it item by item. If the shop has done these a lot, there will be a line item check sheet to break down the costs and the added upgrades. At least, you can see how they arrived at that five figure number. The other slippery slope you have to watch for is the time factor. As Jeff K mentioned, if this is a side job you could be side lined for several jobs that are not even in the shop at the time you presented your project. So a slippage of one month is understandable but more than that usually means potential trouble. I hope you do well finding a reputable and skilled shop.

Good luck,

WEK.

[Gmcole92]

Thanks to all of you...some really good info.

If I was retired or didn't fly 4 times a week (and work 60 hours a week) I would love to do it myself....but that's not in the cards.

I'll reach out to Jeff later this week.

[Gumball]

If I was retired or didn't fly 4 times a week (and work 60 hours a week) I would love to do it myself....but that's not in the cards.

Similar work situation - although not flying - which is why it took me seven months to do my own bodywork. (Although my shop is a hangar at a local airport).

[Tocoti]

Love bodywork. A chance to zone out. I don't have a fancy paint booth so I'm painting inside a tent. I put the base coat on Monday. It turned out nice. My father in law would say, " not bad for a plumber!" I'm not a plumber but that's what he always says. So I have about 500$ into it so far and many hours. 28891

[Mslone]

Nice work for a plumber... : ) planning to do my own as we'll


Love bodywork. A chance to zone out. I don't have a fancy paint booth so I'm painting inside a tent. I put the base coat on Monday. It turned out nice. My father in law would say, " not bad for a plumber!" I'm not a plumber but that's what he always says. So I have about 500$ into it so far and many hours. 28891

[Tocoti]

I did mine all by hand. A pint of filler. All using my hand as a guide and some blocking where it was flat. Not much of that on this car. It's been quite a long time since I've done bodywork. Still love it. I'll probably sell the paint gun and get another one if I build/ paint again. I should hopefully be done with it soon if anyone is interested. I bought way too much sand paper too. There is probably another 3 cars worth! Ha!