Power steering

[msmith6773]

anybody use power steering on the car? and if so is it nice, does it help at all with steering wheel vibration. now i have a 73 MGB so i love the natural feel of no power, but i just didnt know if thinking of puting on power steering is something to think about.

[edwardb]

Manual vs. power steering is probably one of the most widely debated topics on this and the other forum. Hate to say it, because I prefer to just answer questions directly, but this is where learning about search is probably a good idea. There are a lot of threads from technical discussions to "real men don't need PS" contests.

The short answer to your question is yes it's widely used. With the right setup, manual steering effort while moving is manageable and actually pretty decent. While slow speed or parking, need to muscle it up a little. Not terrible, but it's a little stiff. Many manage it just fine. This is a heavier car in the nose, plus has much wider tires than your MGB. So not sure it's an exact comparison. Power steering has the advantage of reducing effort, but it also gives the opportunity to increase caster on the front alignment resulting in greater straight ahead stability. That for me is the strongest reason for considering it. Some don't like power steering because it can be too light. There are various methods for controlling the amount of boost. Steering wheel vibration? No reason for there to be any with manual or power. My manual steering Mk3 has no steering wheel vibration at all.

[msmith6773]

so really it just comes down to how hard you want to work?

[edwardb]

so really it just comes down to how hard you want to work?

Effort and increased caster for straight ahead tracking/stability.

[msmith6773]

do you know where i should look as far as looking at different ps systems or does everybody just kind of make there own

[skullandbones]

I have an OEM power rack (2.5 lock to lock) and pump that is wickedly quick on this car. I had to "detune" it a little with a modulating valve that dampens the input so you don't over steer the car. I think a less close ratio rack would be more manageable for just street. As stated you can add castor without noticing steering effort at low speed. This helps with tracking but I also think it makes the car steer thru curves better. I will have to drive a non PS one set up similar to mine to be for sure on that note. There's no right or wrong here. It's just what you prefer and many have gone from one to the other over time depending the use of the car. If you are considering AutoX, PS might be worth it.

Good luck,

WEK.

[msmith6773]

yeah to bad there is not somewhere where you can go where they have a couple different setups of cars to test drive before to build.


I have an OEM power rack (2.5 lock to lock) and pump that is wickedly quick on this car. I had to "detune" it a little with a modulating valve that dampens the input so you don't over steer the car. I think a less close ratio rack would be more manageable for just street. As stated you can add castor without noticing steering effort at low speed. This helps with tracking but I also think it makes the car steer thru curves better. I will have to drive a non PS one set up similar to mine to be for sure on that note. There's no right or wrong here. It's just what you prefer and many have gone from one to the other over time depending the use of the car. If you are considering AutoX, PS might be worth it.

Good luck,

WEK.

[CraigS]

Look at the Breeze web site. He has a very nice combination of parts available. For the street you want the 3.0 turns lock to lock rack. His pump is the much better (compared to a mustang) GM style which is quiet.
http://www.breezeautomotive.com/home.php?cat_id=12
Notice the pump can use either remote or attached reservoir. You can also mount it on either side of the engine. I wouldn't even consider an FFR w/o PS. I have had two and drove them un powered but powered them up as soon as I could get all the parts ready.

[SStrong]

I have the Breeze power steering setup, with the stock Mustang power steering rack (rebuilt). Works great, steering is effortless and the car tracks well. Some have used the parts from a Jeep or other makes. Without PS you will really have to work, especially turning at low speed. I grew up when power steering was rare, and had no desire to go back for the sake of originality.
I used the remote reservoir. With the reservoir on the master cylinder, the brake cylinder will be under the fender, and with the brake booster would be really hard to fill. My remote reservoirs are mounted on the firewall and I had to extend the extended bracket 1.25" to clear the body.

[msmith6773]

if it helps i will be using all new parts and the complete kit. so if anyone knows of a good kit to use that would be great.

[Blue MK3]

When maneuvering to park in tight quarters, I've often thought that PS would be nice to have. But at speeds above a creep, I get by fine without it. What about an electric PS system that could be switched on when needed and off when not? Anything available out there?

[edwardb]

if it helps i will be using all new parts and the complete kit. so if anyone knows of a good kit to use that would be great.

I'm not aware of anything that's completely turnkey, but it's not hard to put something together. You will need to replace the manual steering rack in the complete kit with a Mustang 87-93 power rack. You can get them in various ratios at your local parts store (AutoZone, etc.). Another option is the 3.0 turn Unisteer rack from Mark at Breeze (forum vendor). It's a little more money than the generic parts store racks, but it's a nice piece and I think the 3.0 is about right for most uses. I have this rack in my Mk4 build, and I'm very happy with it. Then there are the high dollar options like Flaming River, AGR, etc. For power, most use an engine driven pump. If you're having the engine put together, make sure it includes the PS pump. Not only means having the pump installed, but affects water pump direction, belt routing, etc. If you're adding the pump to an engine, forum vendors Mike Forte and Breeze (mentioned) also have all the parts required. Many add a way to control the boost, either by cutting down the regulator spring in the pump or with a Heidt's valve. One is fixed once you're done cutting the spring. The other adjustable. Also most with power steering add longer tubes to the front suspension upper A-frame assembly. Otherwise you could run out of threads when dialing in the additional caster PS allows. Electric was mentioned. This is another choice compared to an engine driven pump. Some (including me) have used the kit available from Fast Freddie's Fabrications. It's a nice setup with some interesting advantages. But it's not cheap. It also has the option to adjust the boost. I've installed this kit in my Mk4 build powering both the steering and the hydroboost power brakes. http://www.fastfreddiesfabrications.com/shop/product.php?id_product=4

Hope this helps. There are lots of options, you just have to do some digging and look what others have done.

[Jeff Kleiner]

so really it just comes down to how hard you want to work?

More than that how you intend to use the car. As edwardb mentioned this topic has been discussed endlessly; searching will provide you with hours of reading so that you can educate yourself and make an informed decision.

Cheers,
Jeff

[Dan Babb]

Where do you live? There might be a member close with a manual setup for you to try.

I had manual in my first car...it used an 18:1 ratio rack and was quite easy to use. Not like you could do a one handed turnaround in a cul-de-sac or pulling into a parking spot at low speed...but it wasn't bad.

With my current car, I had a 15:1 rack and decided to go with power steering. Breeze is a great source for parts and will put together a good setup for you. I decided to add PS because I have a tight turn in & out of my garage and I wanted to start doing auto-cross. I'm glad I made the change in my current car.

There's really no right or wrong answer. Just decide how you plan to use your car and make some calls to get parts that work.

[MPTech]

Power steering racks at Autozone:

#6406; 3.0 turns lock to lock
#6439; 2.5 turns lock to lock
#64163 2.25 turns lock to lock

I have a 3.0 and it is very good, I've heard that 2.25 and even 2.5 and be too quick.

JKeiner has a great power steering parts list, but I couldn't find it.

Here's a high-end (expensive, but VERY nice) PS build:
My Power Steering Conversion (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/189604-my-power-steering-conversion.html)

I would strongly recommend searching on the FFCars sight for good build info.
btw, I have PS and PB and REALLY LIKE them.

[msmith6773]

I'm in Indianapolis indiana

[edwardb]

I'm in Indianapolis indiana

I'm sure there are other owners and/or clubs in your area. Hopefully other forum members can chime in. I'd recommend you put your location in your forum profile. I'd also recommend you may want to check out the London Cobra Show, if you don't know about that already. Pretty easy less than 3 hour drive to your east near Columbus, and you can see a couple hundred cars, lots of Factory Five's, talk to owners, maybe even get a ride or two, etc. I found it an invaluable resource for my first build. Dates are June 19 - 22. Saturday, June 21, in downtown London would be the day to target.

[msmith6773]

thanks ed

[Jeff Kleiner]

I'm in Indianapolis indiana

I'm in Bloomington as are 3 other FFR owners (I've built 3 of the 4 cars in town!). Get in touch and come see us!

Jeff

[msmith6773]

that would be extremely helpful


I'm in Bloomington as are 3 other FFR owners (I've built 3 of the 4 cars in town!). Get in touch and come see us!

Jeff

[Burner1]

I am down toward Evansville with a Pantera. I converted to power steering for many reasons such as larger tires, more caster etc. The difference in a good power steering conversion and a bad conversion of any car is all in the details. If you put in a rack which changes the geometry (unless it improves it) then a power steering raq will only make it worse.

In my case the Pantera has a bump steer issue because the pivot point of the ti-rod ends on the rack is at the wrong width. I built a-arms from scratch to add caster and I modified the steering rack to the appropriate geometry. I spend a major amount of time on this but I ended up with zero bump steer which is an improvement over stock.

Ackerman can play a big part of how you use the car but if you do not plan on changing it make sure the rack is in the same spot in relation to the longitudinal axis. In other words, don't alter it front-to back.

I chose a rack which is offered in as a retro rack in the MGB world and it has an electric pump. Due to the location I had to build another tank. I can turn this rack on and off at any time.


http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/frontsus/psm3.jpg

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/frontsus/pp10.jpg

http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/panttransam/PS/pump2.jpg

[Avalanche325]

Do some research on racks. They vastly improved along the way. In 94 they made changes (pinion valve and torsion bar) that made them smoother, more accurate, and have better road feel. The Mustang Cobra R rack is very sought after, to the point you won't find one. AGR is a good company to look at for racks. They even make the specially calibrated for Cobra replicas. But, get your wallet out for those.

With the mentioned spring modification, you get a nice firm feel. More like a European car, not a disconnected American luxury car feel. I am doing autocross and have a very quick rack. It did feel scary on the highway at first, but it is fine now. I would say definitely yes to power steering. Just choose the rack to fit what you are going to use the car for.