Best Engine?

[msmith6773]

I wanted to know what people think the best powerplant to put under the hood? 302, 427, or any others and what is a perfect amount of power or street but sounds well mean but wont be abused except for maybe showing up some sap with a $100K car with one you built? any thoughts and what about trans ideas?

p.s. does a fuel injection sound the same as a carb with the side exhuast or is it a little different?


oh, one more thing im getting ready to build one but need to get rid of the mgb, but i have aways wanted the cobra with the 427 with around 500hp, is this a mistake? let me know please im only 25 and have not been around originals long enough, unlike possible some of the older, i mean more seasoned guys and gals, to know if the 427 is really a bit too heavey for the car when it comes to handling. but this is not going to be a track car. maybe someone have driven both and can shed some light on this for me.

[chopthebass]

You will get lots of opinions about engines and HP. I asked similar questions and was told 350 to 400HP is the sweetspot, and then you'll see other people with much more HP arguing that you can drive it as fast as you need.
I was convinced I was going to use the Ford Coyote engine but got scared off because of the technical side involving engine management etc. I suspect you are thinking of a big-block 427 like the originals. Big blocks my be detrimental to handling for sure which is probably why most builders here stick with small blocks. You can still get tons of HP from these and they are reasonably light. In the end I opted for a Ford 351W based 427 cubic inch engine pushing around 560HP. I don`t believe EFI will sound any different to a carb engine. As for transmissions - the Tremec TKO-500 and TKO-600 seem to be very popular. I will be going for the latter because of my HP. Both are 5 -speed.

You might get more technical responses than mine! I spent nearly a year asking lots of questions here and researching!

[edwardb]

I wanted to know what people think the best powerplant to put under the hood? 302, 427, or any others and what is a perfect amount of power or street but sounds well mean but wont be abused except for maybe showing up some sap with a $100K car with one you built? any thoughts and what about trans ideas? p.s. does a fuel injection sound the same as a carb with the side exhuast or is it a little different?

This is a bit like asking for the best religion or best political party. Everyone will give their opinion which may or may not be the best choice for your build. Variables include your intended use, budget, how authentic you want it to the originals, experience, donor or new build, and probably many more. Everyone will be convinced they made the best choice (including me of course...). I'd recommend some time on both forums looking at build threads and the many discussions on this topic. Every choice has certain pluses and minuses. You have to decide what's most important to you. I'd also recommend a detailed build plan including intended use, and this will also take you certain directions. As already noted, no difference in sound between carb and EFI if everything else is the same, e.g. headers, pipes, etc. For higher horsepower, e.g. over 300-350, as noted TKO500 or 600 are probably the transmissions of choice. There are also custom T-5's that can handle higher horsepower. Good luck.

[msmith6773]

thanks guys.. well to make it easier cost is not a problem and i was going to go with the complete kit with a kurnkey engine, as much as i would love to build to engine myself...i dont have the time and id rather just go ahead and drop one in...maybe one day ill build another and then build an engine for it. but to put it simply its all going to be new parts...

[chopthebass]

I agree with Ed and that is exactly what I did - asked lots of questions, read lots of threads, spoke to engine builders etc..
If budget wasn't a problem for me I would look at Roush engines. Another builder here took deliver of one and it does look sweet. I don't know how you decide on engine to use, 302, 347, 351, etc. I saw a lot of guys using the 351W and my local engine builder is building me a new one within my budget. That was his recommendation and I went with it!

Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

What MG did you restore?

[Pylons]

If budget wasn't a problem for me I would look at Roush engines. Another builder here took deliver of one and it does look sweet.
I assume that's me :)

The OP's situation sounds similar to mine...complete kit, not overly concerned about budget, wanting a turnkey solution

My Roush setup is indeed pricey, but I decided it was worth it because:
1. I had met, liked, and was impressed by the Roush guy on my trip to build school
2. the 331SRXE was the engine we put in the car in build school and I was impressed with it
3. as much as I know I'm going to love this car, I know I'm likely to sell it a few years down the road, and I think Roush power underhood will be a huge selling point for a lot of buyers
4. they seem focused on using quality parts throughout. (which is not to say there aren't other vendors who do the same or that there aren't places where it's fine to save some bucks with a cheaper part)
5. I don't expect to need it, but they do have a warranty service network

[Davidbr_48]

This is very much a matter of opinion, and depends on what you plan to do with your car. I visited the FF factory and met with Dave Smith to talk about this. I told him I was interested in building a street car that would be fun to drive - no plans to race etc. He suggested the Coyote engine, so that's what I went with. The price for the new crate engine and controls package was under $8K. Because the engine is totally computer-controlled, the mods I made (replacing the stock air box and headers) affected performance. I contacted JMS Chips and Performance, and bought one of their tune-up kits which consists of a hand-held electronic gizmo and a couple of software files. "Tune up" for the Coyote means loading new software. This made a big difference, but more fine tuning is required. JMS will tweak the tune (at no additional charge) if I collect data with a PC while the engine is running so this is where I'm at. The Coyote is a very sophisticated and powerful engine, but it does take some finessing to get it running really good.

David

[msmith6773]

yeah as far as using a coyote, i would love to go that way if i built two, that way you have one that well you could actually drive everydavy and well the reliability with the comp. but i do want to go with the classic look with the engine...filter on top and smiple looking i guess less ecu. although i have been looking at the fuel injection setups which i really like, not that i dont know how to deal with carbs but its one less thing to worrie about

[chopthebass]

I assume that's me :)


ha ha! Yes I was referring to your excellent build! Roush engines are dressed up so nicely.

[lsxsean]

Small block

[Bren]

oh, one more thing im getting ready to build one but need to get rid of the mgb, but i have aways wanted the cobra with the 427 with around 500hp, is this a mistake? let me know please im only 25 and have not been around originals long enough, unlike possible some of the older, i mean more seasoned guys and gals, to know if the 427 is really a bit too heavey for the car when it comes to handling. but this is not going to be a track car. maybe someone have driven both and can shed some light on this for me.

I was thinking about getting a big block 427 but ended up going with a small block 427 for a couple of reasons. First, is cost. If I remember correctly, the big blocks were about $5k more than the small blocks. Second, functionality. The small blocks will have many more aftermarket options than the big blocks and the small blocks are more widely available. Also, the small blocks are less thirsty which means that you don't have to stop at every gas station you pass (the gas tanks on these cars are not very big).

If you're not going on the track, I don't think I'd worry too much about the big block not handling as well as a small block. I think either will do fine on the road.

If you're going to get a small block 427, make sure you get a Ford Boss block or a Dart block (I went with Dart). Once you start shaving away enough of the metal on the standard 351W block to get to 427ci, there's not much left.

[skullandbones]

I think "best engine" is what you like the best. Some like it because it is the biggest or loudest. Some like it with a carb because most people like to see a carb on top as it reminds them of their glory days and doesn't interfere with the nostalgia factor of looking at these cars. So there is no such thing as "Best". This could be more controversial than religion or politics (naw!).

I go with the sbf as it is simplest. I love the push rod engines and roller cam. It's lighter and smaller to give you room to work in the engine bay. It is somewhat period correct unless you top it with EFI (dead giveaway!). I haven't found much to complain about the sbf. This is coming from a die hard Chevy guy in the past. It's a pretty incredible engine. If I had to complain, it would be the parts are usually more expensive than Chevy and you just learn to live with that fact. Too bad mine is a replica of a 427 version of the roadster. Sometimes you have to live with a little compromise. Have fun deciding, WEK.

[289FIA_Cobra]

Since you own an MGB, think about what HP is under 'that' hood of the roadster.
Now multiply that times 4 and you might have an idea what that will feel like.

The thing you must remember about an FFR is the short wheelbase. While some FFR's are built w/HP beyond your standard Z06 HP ratings, the Corvette has a long enough wheelbase and weight, to make it manageable in a turn (on power past an apex). But try the same stunt on your FFR and the song R-E-S-P-E-C-T becomes your new mantra as you spin 90 - 180 deg. around (having Nitto Drag Radials didn't help matters either.) Sure, you can think of having 500+HP in a 2500 lbs. car and use your throttle control (i.e. your right foot) to regulate things for regular street use so to the point, understand how you'll use whatever HP you decide upon because even the old 225HP from the old Fox body Mustangs, can get you into a heap of trouble in a car like this. I won't mention names, but I've seen it.

PS: I went with a 347 cid, bottom end by Coast High Performance, rest was stuff I selected. Need to dyno it with the Vic Jr. heads I installed 2 years ago, but guessing it'll be about 370-375HP at the wheels, 400 ft.-lbs. of torque, probably around 3500-4000 RPM range.

[SStrong]

Good point about the 225 hp Fox. I bought a brand new '89 5.0 lx. My first drive, I spun 180 in the center lane attempting to turn left for gas a few blocks from the dealership in Dallas. Oncoming traffic wasn't impressed. With my 400 hp MKIV, I really have to be careful with the left foot. This from a 306. My nephew has a 2200 hp 348 ci he races. Turns 8.0 at 190+ in the quarter, street legal with twin chutes (don't ask me how he passes inspection). The big block adds a couple of hundred points forward of the center line, and affect your weight ratio (mine is 51/48).

[CraigS]

Since money isn't an object I would go w/ what you want, a 427. It would be a 351 based 427. And I would go w/ a mild one. Read this from Roush about their engines characteristics
http://www.roushperformance.com/i/engines/crate-engine-characteristics.jpg
Not sure I would like that but maybe you would. Based on that, if you want the Roush name, I'd go w/ the 480 hp w/ efi here
http://www.roushperformance.com/engines/427-srxe.html
But that seems to me to be a really high price to get the name. I'd be calling Mike Forte and ask him to build you an engine and provide the clutch, trans etc to go w/ it.
http://www.fortesparts.com/

[tirod]

What do you want the car to do?

Lots of guys jump in with some idea of what the car will be, but the real nitty gritty comes down to exactly what it will be used for, in numbers.

It's the same with firearms, "I want to buy an AR15" is a starting point, but when it's known what the range and target are, then you get into the real details. A long range sniper rifle and short 14" tax stamped hog gun are both AR-15's, but they simply cannot do the other job well.

So, you specify exactly what you intend to do with the car. What kind of driving, if competition, specifically what kind. Autocross, drag, Land Speed Record, 25 hour endurance, short track sports? Each has very specific and individual requirements that as they are developed exclude other choices. Same as an AR15.

That's why the engine info request is a bit early. Some have already commented on it, the purpose of an engine is to either make horsepower, look "good," or even amplify the owners self image. Guys build cars to do that, just as much as they buy firearms. It's an extension of their image they are attempting to market externally in sociologically acceptable ways.

It's why some guys marry the wives they have, to amplify their own status.

In terms of cars, does this one need to do that sort of thing, or does it need to actually perform on asphalt with certain kinds of handling and performance in mind? Knowing that, we can specify what will fit the profile of success. You get a car that is custom tailored to your goals, and things work out nicely.

Ignore it, and we see the results in the for sale forums, parts, bits, even whole cars sold because they didn't come up to the owner's goals. And the very real problem creeps in, sometimes those goals were only temporary in their life. Things change and new decisions are made. One of the better chassis and handling writer's of the 80's quit to become a psychologist.

I'm going to hazard a speculation: the 427 Roadster is an icon in the automotive arts, not for what it actually was, but for what we think it represents. The reality behind the image is quite a bit less than we make of it. They aren't for everyone, it's not a matter of machismo, it's a matter of that kind of car simply may not have the kind of performance that the owner discovers he prefers in the long run. A lot is made about their abrupt and powerful handling, ankle burns, and how dangerous they can be. That is a real insight to what they are, an overpowered sports car with a large, heavy truck motor, that was actually built to showcase the Ford brand in the marketing contests against Chevrolet and the Corvette.

It wasn't the car that actually build the Shelby reputation, and it wasn't the car that won the FIA championship. It wasn't the Shelby that first went over 180mph at LeMans. If anything, it's a short track monster that would barely put a second or two over the 289 models on most American racetracks.

With the F5 kits you get to fix it. The 351W based motor weighs 150 pounds less, makes more hp if you want, is less expensive, and can be dressed up to look the same. Only the really knowledgeable could tell. The lap times would be far superior, especially with sorting out after the build, which is where the real performance is refined.

What that performance is, we don't know. It has to be spelled out, and then what is known to be successful to make those goals becomes a lot clearer.

[msmith6773]

yeah my mgb is not the stock 68 weak poneys. its been bored out and well many performance parts, its really a race engine in a car thats 1990 lbs. with 130-135 to the wheels with small narrow tires so im not worried about the power. i owen a bwm m1 so i have power there as well but is most likely will handle better than the cobra. but true its a lot of power of a small car.

[msmith6773]

thats a really great oint you made... am building one not for track or autocross, this is going to be a street driver that is not really going to be abused, meaning that im not going to always punch it or throw it around a turn sideways to light out the tires. having said that it is nice to have the power and maybe a little too much( i am somewhat of a powerholic) to pass and well everynow and then scare the **** out of myself off the top light. that being said. i know that the 351w can be made into a 427. but but as far as handling yes i want it to handle well. are you saying that the 351w can be a bad choice for handling or and actual 427 is?

What do you want the car to do?

Lots of guys jump in with some idea of what the car will be, but the real nitty gritty comes down to exactly what it will be used for, in numbers.

It's the same with firearms, "I want to buy an AR15" is a starting point, but when it's known what the range and target are, then you get into the real details. A long range sniper rifle and short 14" tax stamped hog gun are both AR-15's, but they simply cannot do the other job well.

So, you specify exactly what you intend to do with the car. What kind of driving, if competition, specifically what kind. Autocross, drag, Land Speed Record, 25 hour endurance, short track sports? Each has very specific and individual requirements that as they are developed exclude other choices. Same as an AR15.

That's why the engine info request is a bit early. Some have already commented on it, the purpose of an engine is to either make horsepower, look "good," or even amplify the owners self image. Guys build cars to do that, just as much as they buy firearms. It's an extension of their image they are attempting to market externally in sociologically acceptable ways.

It's why some guys marry the wives they have, to amplify their own status.

In terms of cars, does this one need to do that sort of thing, or does it need to actually perform on asphalt with certain kinds of handling and performance in mind? Knowing that, we can specify what will fit the profile of success. You get a car that is custom tailored to your goals, and things work out nicely.

Ignore it, and we see the results in the for sale forums, parts, bits, even whole cars sold because they didn't come up to the owner's goals. And the very real problem creeps in, sometimes those goals were only temporary in their life. Things change and new decisions are made. One of the better chassis and handling writer's of the 80's quit to become a psychologist.

I'm going to hazard a speculation: the 427 Roadster is an icon in the automotive arts, not for what it actually was, but for what we think it represents. The reality behind the image is quite a bit less than we make of it. They aren't for everyone, it's not a matter of machismo, it's a matter of that kind of car simply may not have the kind of performance that the owner discovers he prefers in the long run. A lot is made about their abrupt and powerful handling, ankle burns, and how dangerous they can be. That is a real insight to what they are, an overpowered sports car with a large, heavy truck motor, that was actually built to showcase the Ford brand in the marketing contests against Chevrolet and the Corvette.

It wasn't the car that actually build the Shelby reputation, and it wasn't the car that won the FIA championship. It wasn't the Shelby that first went over 180mph at LeMans. If anything, it's a short track monster that would barely put a second or two over the 289 models on most American racetracks.

With the F5 kits you get to fix it. The 351W based motor weighs 150 pounds less, makes more hp if you want, is less expensive, and can be dressed up to look the same. Only the really knowledgeable could tell. The lap times would be far superior, especially with sorting out after the build, which is where the real performance is refined.

What that performance is, we don't know. It has to be spelled out, and then what is known to be successful to make those goals becomes a lot clearer.

[msmith6773]

oh another thing. some have said that the 302 can look small under the hood and one person had said that the 427 small can look small as well under the hood and that the 427 big looks like it bellngs under the hood with the nice big headers and valve covers. any opinions and also does anyone have pictures from the from of there engine in a complete car with the hood open. 302, 351w/427, 427 small, 427 big. i would like to see. it is actually harder then you thing to just google pictures for it. if you do and would like to share please let me know what is under the hood

[msmith6773]

oh sorry for all the questions suddendly but, is anyone running an aluminum blocks instead of iron? and does anybody know how a 427 aluminum holds up?

[Pylons]

oh another thing. some have said that the 302 can look small under the hood and one person had said that the 427 small can look small as well under the hood and that the 427 big looks like it bellngs under the hood with the nice big headers and valve covers. any opinions and also does anyone have pictures from the from of there engine in a complete car with the hood open. 302, 351w/427, 427 small, 427 big. i would like to see. it is actually harder then you thing to just google pictures for it. if you do and would like to share please let me know what is under the hood

this is the Roush 331SRXE (302-based) from the build school:

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/bhertwec/FactoryFive/331SRXE_engine_bay.jpg

[msmith6773]

Yeah i used Best because i knew it would grab a lot of people.

I think "best engine" is what you like the best. Some like it because it is the biggest or loudest. Some like it with a carb because most people like to see a carb on top as it reminds them of their glory days and doesn't interfere with the nostalgia factor of looking at these cars. So there is no such thing as "Best". This could be more controversial than religion or politics (naw!).

I go with the sbf as it is simplest. I love the push rod engines and roller cam. It's lighter and smaller to give you room to work in the engine bay. It is somewhat period correct unless you top it with EFI (dead giveaway!). I haven't found much to complain about the sbf. This is coming from a die hard Chevy guy in the past. It's a pretty incredible engine. If I had to complain, it would be the parts are usually more expensive than Chevy and you just learn to live with that fact. Too bad mine is a replica of a 427 version of the roadster. Sometimes you have to live with a little compromise. Have fun deciding, WEK.

[Mike N]

Not really mentioned yet but what do you want the engine to look like? It's easy to build any motor with ample power to scare the crap out of almost anybody especially with a generous budget and with the FFR side pipes it will sound wicked no matter what.

Is your build going to follow a traditional look? Would a dual quad, FE valve covers, period expansion tank etc (427 SC) be what you are looking for? What about Webers (or stack FI) for the 289 FIA look? Or would you prefer a more modern look with a current fuel injection manifold etc (Coyote?). Once you have decided what you want to motor to look like it may be a little easier to narrow down the actual engine configuration to something that will keep you happy behind the wheel. I have roughly 425 flywheel HP and 475 flywheel torque and run mid to high 11's on street tires and mid 3 second zero to 60. That is way more power than you will ever safely use on the street. If you are truly only going to use it as a street car assemble a nice drivable combination with a broad torque curve that you will enjoy driving. Too many people build an engine that doesn't have nice around town manners and don't enjoy driving the car. On the other hand if you think you might do some open track, 1/4 mile runs etc then a little more power is going to be just right. My car used to scare the crap out of me sitting still, now I want more power.

[msmith6773]

well i want to keep the classic look, simple, clean and not busy, but i think that i would want throttle body electronic fuel injection so i dont have to worry about the tuning the carbs, not that i cant its just nice not having to worry about it. as well as msd or someone elses ignition system and not actually use points. i switched my mgb to opitical ignition and i loved it. i dont need a chronmed out engine or a show car engine. but i am going to run the hood scoop.




Not really mentioned yet but what do you want the engine to look like? It's easy to build any motor with ample power to scare the crap out of almost anybody especially with a generous budget and with the FFR side pipes it will sound wicked no matter what.

Is your build going to follow a traditional look? Would a dual quad, FE valve covers, period expansion tank etc (427 SC) be what you are looking for? What about Webers (or stack FI) for the 289 FIA look? Or would you prefer a more modern look with a current fuel injection manifold etc (Coyote?). Once you have decided what you want to motor to look like it may be a little easier to narrow down the actual engine configuration to something that will keep you happy behind the wheel. I have roughly 425 flywheel HP and 475 flywheel torque and run mid to high 11's on street tires and mid 3 second zero to 60. That is way more power than you will ever safely use on the street. If you are truly only going to use it as a street car assemble a nice drivable combination with a broad torque curve that you will enjoy driving. Too many people build an engine that doesn't have nice around town manners and don't enjoy driving the car. On the other hand if you think you might do some open track, 1/4 mile runs etc then a little more power is going to be just right. My car used to scare the crap out of me sitting still, now I want more power.

[68GT500MAN]

If you want the look of a 427 while using a small block, there are valve cover adaptors available to allow the use of big-block valve covers (think pent roof) on a small block. I did this and it causes a lot of people to look twice when walking by the open hood. Add a dual 4bbl intake or a single with a turkey pan and the look is complete.
Doug

[msmith6773]

what are you running under the hood?


If you want the look of a 427 while using a small block, there are valve cover adaptors available to allow the use of big-block valve covers (think pent roof) on a small block. I did this and it causes a lot of people to look twice when walking by the open hood. Add a dual 4bbl intake or a single with a turkey pan and the look is complete.
Doug

[68GT500MAN]

427w. It was a kit that a company called PAW (Performance Automotive Warehouse) used to sell. I got the adaptors and chrome pent roof valve covers from Breese.
Doug

[edwardb]

oh another thing. some have said that the 302 can look small under the hood and one person had said that the 427 small can look small as well under the hood and that the 427 big looks like it bellngs under the hood with the nice big headers and valve covers. any opinions and also does anyone have pictures from the from of there engine in a complete car with the hood open. 302, 351w/427, 427 small, 427 big. i would like to see. it is actually harder then you thing to just google pictures for it. if you do and would like to share please let me know what is under the hood

A true big block (or mod motor for that matter) fills the engine compartment more than a small block. For a purist, looks more period correct I guess. But I wouldn't say small blocks look "small" in these. Here are my two builds. First is a Mk3 with a Ford 302 block bored to 306. Second is my Mk4 with DART 302 block stroked to 347. Both look just fine in the chassis as far as I'm concerned. I personally wouldn't be making an engine choice on this basis alone. And BTW they are more accessible to work on.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Engine%20Overhaul/IMG_1376.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Engine%20Overhaul/IMG_1376.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Engine/IMG_2469_zps081382e1.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Engine/IMG_2469_zps081382e1.jpg.html)

[Johnnymike]

Your question is a good one and really does not have a right or wrong answer. It is good to get many different opinions and you decide. I don’t pretend to be an expert but I have had three different Shelby Cobra replicas over the past 30 years. What I have now is by far my favorite. A FFR with a 427FE from a 64 Galaxy built with new performance components by an independent engine builder who knows how to put an engine together to fit the application. I have had crate 460’s and Coyote’s. Good engines for sure but if you can build an engine from the ground up for a specific task you have something special and a little different and in my mind. Horse power equates to speed but torque is what you feel. You don’t have to go fast to feel the power of a well-built big block. The crate motors are good but really designed to preform best in off road or off shore applications and can have narrow power ranges.
All the options mentioned above are valid to consider. If I were you I would also try to find a knowledgeable independent engine builder and get to know him.
JMS

[Pylons]

Horse power equates to speed but torque is what you feel. You don’t have to go fast to feel the power of a well-built big block. The crate motors are good but really designed to preform best in off road or off shore applications and can have narrow power ranges.

I don't think that's necessarily (and you did say "can" ;) ) true of a crate engine. Here's the engine dyno plot for my Roush 331SRXE:

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/bhertwec/FactoryFive/331SRXE_dyno_plot.JPG

I don't think you can find much to call "narrow" there, and plenty torquey

[Johnnymike]

Pylons
You are absolutely correct. There are so many crate engines you really can't compare them easily.
The Roush I had was a great engine but I could tell driving it that it wanted to run all day at 4,500 to 5,500 RPM.
It is interesting to see your power curve because the 460 I had had a flat spot at about 3,000 to 3,500 RPM then it took of like a bullet.
That is about were I would shift on the road. Believe me not a problem just an observation. And I really don't remember the transmission or rear end ratios.
JMS

[2FAST4U]

A crate engine may work but a custom built one that meets your intended use and budget works best. The difference in price is minimal

[Johnnymike]

After having both varieties that is my observation exactly 2FAST4U.

And I like your taste in cars. If that FIA is Viking blue it is perfect. I want one.

JMS

[Lynnhowlyn]

oh another thing. some have said that the 302 can look small under the hood and one person had said that the 427 small can look small as well under the hood and that the 427 big looks like it bellngs under the hood with the nice big headers and valve covers. any opinions and also does anyone have pictures from the from of there engine in a complete car with the hood open. 302, 351w/427, 427 small, 427 big. i would like to see. it is actually harder then you thing to just google pictures for it. if you do and would like to share please let me know what is under the hood

Here's a couple of mine ... SBF (302) in my completed car.

The throttle body efi (MSD Atomic) and oval air cleaner gives it the quasi period correct look that i was aiming for (e.g. looks like it's carb'd - but has the drive-ability of modern fuel injection), and from my somewhat baised perspective, it all looks right at home in the engine bay. And with approx 350 HP (has not been dyno'd - and no plans to do so) and a car wet weight at approx 2,200#, it is plenty quick and an absolute joy to drive.

HTH

Lynn

[fordboy]

Mk4 with DART 302 block stroked to 347

edwardb....I sent you pm.

[msmith6773]

for those wanting to know what i want to engine to look like well this is what im shooting for the simple and not busy look. by th way i love this it really does look great. and as far as a small engine looking small, i really didnt think that it was going to look bad it was just something i read and have been told. thats why i came here to ask yall. bc i really have not seen a 302 or 289 in person under the hood to judge for myslef, i have always seen 427 and current powerplants. but if i had a 351w/427 with the msd ignition, either mag or optic pickups, with a throttle body efi set up i woult want it looking like this, maybe different covers with cobra or 427 on them but thats just a image thing.


A true big block (or mod motor for that matter) fills the engine compartment more than a small block. For a purist, looks more period correct I guess. But I wouldn't say small blocks look "small" in these. Here are my two builds. First is a Mk3 with a Ford 302 block bored to 306. Second is my Mk4 with DART 302 block stroked to 347. Both look just fine in the chassis as far as I'm concerned. I personally wouldn't be making an engine choice on this basis alone. And BTW they are more accessible to work on.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Engine%20Overhaul/IMG_1376.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Engine%20Overhaul/IMG_1376.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Engine/IMG_2469_zps081382e1.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Engine/IMG_2469_zps081382e1.jpg.html)

[msmith6773]

i love it thanks, this is the look i am going for, i believe we have the same idea, although i still like the 427 just because well just that a 427, the outlaw or the child thats bigger then his parents.

With that does anyone know how well a 351w/427 handles or any 427 small block handle. i have ruled out a true 427 big block because ( i said money is not an issue) but having an all aluminum true 427 big block is really freakin costly i dont want to put a motor in that cot more than the kit itself. as much as i would really think about doing it because it would be much ighter than an iron block and handling would be much better.

but anyways, help me understand how a small 427 or 351w/427 handles, is it really poor or does it work? oh i am going to be using all new parts, i am doing the ful kit and was going to go with the higher performace front and rear end on the car. are these also a mistake or are they worth it, or should i just go with ff basic set up?


Here's a couple of mine ... SBF (302) in my completed car.

The throttle body efi (MSD Atomic) and oval air cleaner gives it the quasi period correct look that i was aiming for (e.g. looks like it's carb'd - but has the drive-ability of modern fuel injection), and from my somewhat baised perspective, it all looks right at home in the engine bay. And with approx 350 HP (has not been dyno'd - and no plans to do so) and a car wet weight at approx 2,200#, it is plenty quick and an absolute joy to drive.

HTH

Lynn

[msmith6773]

where did you get your engine and trans? or did you build your engine?



You will get lots of opinions about engines and HP. I asked similar questions and was told 350 to 400HP is the sweetspot, and then you'll see other people with much more HP arguing that you can drive it as fast as you need.
I was convinced I was going to use the Ford Coyote engine but got scared off because of the technical side involving engine management etc. I suspect you are thinking of a big-block 427 like the originals. Big blocks my be detrimental to handling for sure which is probably why most builders here stick with small blocks. You can still get tons of HP from these and they are reasonably light. In the end I opted for a Ford 351W based 427 cubic inch engine pushing around 560HP. I don`t believe EFI will sound any different to a carb engine. As for transmissions - the Tremec TKO-500 and TKO-600 seem to be very popular. I will be going for the latter because of my HP. Both are 5 -speed.

You might get more technical responses than mine! I spent nearly a year asking lots of questions here and researching!

[msmith6773]

67 b


i agree with ed and that is exactly what i did - asked lots of questions, read lots of threads, spoke to engine builders etc..
If budget wasn't a problem for me i would look at roush engines. Another builder here took deliver of one and it does look sweet. I don't know how you decide on engine to use, 302, 347, 351, etc. I saw a lot of guys using the 351w and my local engine builder is building me a new one within my budget. That was his recommendation and i went with it!

Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

What mg did you restore?

[FirstFactoryFive]

Here's a couple of mine ... SBF (302) in my completed car.

The throttle body efi (MSD Atomic) and oval air cleaner gives it the quasi period correct look that i was aiming for (e.g. looks like it's carb'd - but has the drive-ability of modern fuel injection), and from my somewhat baised perspective, it all looks right at home in the engine bay. And with approx 350 HP (has not been dyno'd - and no plans to do so) and a car wet weight at approx 2,200#, it is plenty quick and an absolute joy to drive.

HTH

Lynn

Lynn, curious how your 302 with MSD Atomic EFI has held up. Have you been happy with it? It definitely has the great look that I will be going for. - Jeff

[Papa]

Jeff,

I suspect you will get a ton of responses, but the last post to this thread was five years ago! 😁

Dave

[BluePrintEngines]

Jeff,

I suspect you will get a ton of responses, but the last post to this thread was five years ago! ��

Dave

LOL i just noticed the same thing... I was going to Chime in and just talk about what we sell the most of, and also point out that the Build School uses BluePrint Engines.... but then saw this was 2014!

Regardless...we go from 235HP to 541 HP...there's an engine for every customer.... all depends on wants/needs/budget.

[edwardb]

Lynn, curious how your 302 with MSD Atomic EFI has held up. Have you been happy with it? It definitely has the great look that I will be going for. - Jeff

Last post on this thread almost 4 years ago. Person you're asking a question of hasn't been active on here for two years. Probably not the best approach.

I personally don't have any experience with the MSD Atomic, but I have observed several builds using it. Over the last several years there are multiple similar throttle body EFI options. May want to consider a new thread.

[Jim1855]

msmith,

I have an aluminum 351w/427. Mine is based on the RDI "Z" block, basically what Ford Performance is now selling as their 351Z block but a bit different. AFR 225 heads, about 9.7 compression, .610 lift, 240 @ .050, 108 LSA, Vic Jr manifold, ProSystems 780, 1-7/8" custom headers. Somewhere around 440hp, 435 tqe on a Mustang chassis dyno, lots of runs. 535 hp on an engine dyno.

There's about 65k on the motor but rebuilt it twice, once when a beehive valve spring broke and once after a front end crash that compromised the oiling system and jammed the throttle, not my fault. This is the motor that will go into my challenge car. It was in two different Superformance cars and I drive it hard.

The RDI 427 weighs 400#, about 10# more than a 302/5.0 with Trick Flow EFI with similar accessories. BUT, the price you pay for aluminum is a bit high, might be a $4k premium over a similar iron block. I'd guess that a iron Windsor would weight 80-100# more, the RDI isn't a lightweight aluminum block.

I'd do the same again but with more cam, compression and upgraded components. I think 600 at the flywheel is 'bout right.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Jim

[Jim1855]

Reading… just learned how, kinda proud of myself too. But feeling really dumb. Not a first.
Jim

[Jcdata]

Interesting so an all aluminum small block Windsor weighs 400 pounds, correct? I know an all aluminum 427 FE weighs 460. Just thought I would air that

[Jim1855]

I weighed the two engines as available, then evaluated the collection of components on each and calculated a comparable level of completion. I don't think alternators, distributors and waterpumps were included.
Jim