Front fuel Tank Ideas

[DMC7492]

Hi Guys I dont have my kit yet , available date is April 26.
So I am wondering if there is enough room in front of the fire wall to build a custom Fuel tank, Large enough to hold at least 10 useable gallons?

[FFRSpec72]

For the "R" I looked at this trying to get a fuel cell built and we tried many ways, you can get a tank in the triangle area (as there would be issues using the other areas and getting useable fuel in those areas) but the most we could get was 1800 cubic inches and that's about 7.5 gals and of that maybe 6-6.5 gals would be useable. I'm not too keen on having a tank up front racing. I don't know if the S is different, I imagine so as you don't have the front roll cage hoop and that may make a difference

[Frank818]

Check Xusia's thread, he's working on a design. He might have started another thread here to, but his build thread says some stuff about it.

[DMC7492]

I looked at the 818e build thread at the battery storage box in the front. With the batteries he has, the calculated cubic inches was a bout the same at 1789 Cubic inches. Unless we can go higher in height, but this is at the bottom of the holes in the fire wall for the shift cables. Thanks for the leads. Don

[FFRSpec72]

I looked at the 818e build thread at the battery storage box in the front. With the batteries he has, the calculated cubic inches was a bout the same at 1789 Cubic inches. Unless we can go higher in height, but this is at the bottom of the holes in the fire wall for the shift cables. Thanks for the leads. Don

Consistent with what we came up with, that would not get me through a 40 min race

[Xusia]

Hi and welcome DMC7492! I have designed a tank - and a method of installation (from the bottom) - that holds ~10 gallons. It fits nicely in the space and is the same 10" in height as the FFR tank so you can use the FFR solution for the fuel pump and sending unit. There is space to go as high as 12" (maybe more with some additional work), which would hold about ~12 gallons. I got side tracked working out my seating arrangement or I'd have a template to show you. I'll post all my work on this when I get to it, but if you want to know more before then, I'm happy to share what I've done/learned over the phone. Just PM me with a phone number. :)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hi and welcome DMC7492! I have designed a tank - and a method of installation (from the bottom) - that holds ~10 gallons. It fits nicely in the space and is the same 10" in height as the FFR tank so you can use the FFR solution for the fuel pump and sending unit. There is space to go as high as 12" (maybe more with some additional work), which would hold about ~12 gallons. I got side tracked working out my seating arrangement or I'd have a template to show you. I'll post all my work on this when I get to it, but if you want to know more before then, I'm happy to share what I've done/learned over the phone. Just PM me with a phone number. :)

Hi Brian,
I'm right there with you on the front tank design.
14w x 18L x 12h with a small corner cut off for the steering joint will give you 12.8 gallons (12.0 usable)
Bob

Edit: the final tank end up being 14 gallons if filled to the brim.

[CanadianYank]

At 6'4" I need the extra space and its one of my concerns for this kit. Im really interested in the idea of a front tank. So by removing the tank from behind the seats are you sitting straight up to get the extra leg room?

Frank

[CanadianYank]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RRC-12-Gallon-Aluminum-Street-Series-Fuel-Cell-W-240-33-Ohm-Sending-Unit-/251237610432

Would something like this fit and cradled from underneath?

Frank

[CanadianYank]

33412

Would something like this work? Its 12"x18"x12" would this fit from underneath?

Frank

[FFRSpec72]

At 6'4" I need the extra space and its one of my concerns for this kit. Im really interested in the idea of a front tank. So by removing the tank from behind the seats are you sitting straight up to get the extra leg room?

Frank

I' a tad over 6 foot, I moved my rear firewall back 4.5" and used a 10 degree layback seat, so I have about 8" of room over the stock configurations, I have a 32" inseam and I can put my legs flat (straight)t out in my 818

[Bob_n_Cincy]

At 6'4" I need the extra space and its one of my concerns for this kit. Im really interested in the idea of a front tank. So by removing the tank from behind the seats are you sitting straight up to get the extra leg room?

Frank

Hi Frank
My son is 6'3" 260 lbs.
I did a custom front tank.
The 12"x18"x12" tank you mentioned above would fit with no problems. You do have to cut out the battery tray bars and replace them to get the strength back. I review this with FFR before I did it.

Check out post 145 on my Build thread for more info. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12534-MRG-MotorSports-818S-Build/page4
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33414&d=1408672124

[CanadianYank]

Bob, Thx that looks great very nice. Never 100% safe but I actually like the idea better than the tank next to the motor and gives better protection to the driver.

Thx, Frank

[CanadianYank]

Tony, I feel comfortable now about fitment, your info on MKII Challenge Car vs. 818 R, can you fit was very helpful.

Thx, Frank

[FFRSpec72]

Bob, Thx that looks great very nice. Never 100% safe but I actually like the idea better than the tank next to the motor and gives better protection to the driver.

Thx, Frank

Just remember, in a R you are moving the cell out of the cage area (so less protection), also no matter were you place the cell I would suggest you put a rear firewall in (between cell and engine). I'm sure you will weigh all the pros/con and come up with the best solution for your build and usage.

[Goldwing]

Just food for thought. With the Boyd tank, the firewall is moved back about 3 inches and results in a relatively steep seat back angle. Moving the firewall further might get uncomfortable in the long run. I forget who, but someone was working on a pedal box mod to move the pedals forward a bit. In the end, that may be a more comfortable a solution. I point that out, to keep that in mind as you consider front fuel tanks that could preclude the option of a pedal box mod. I'm just short of 6' with a 32" inseam. I'm pretty comfortable with aftermarket Recaro seats, Boyd tank. (W/3" firewall move), no pedal box mod for reference.

[CanadianYank]

Got to look at the kit today! "Triathletedave" Dave invited me over to see his 818s build and nope I'm not fitting in a stock configuration... So my tank is going in the front. If only they stretched the kit about 4". I would recommend any big and tall guy to test fit first...

Was very impressed with the kits build quality and was equally impressed with Dave's progress with the kit. Thanks again Dave!

Frank

[DMC7492]

Hi guys I am making progress on the front tank, now to mount the filler tube. I need a picture of some body's right front fender area similar to this picture, I need to figure if the filler pipe should run below the frame tube or above and at which angle to aim at the gas cap in the fender. Behind the wheel and in front of the door.
Can some one. With their body installed snap a few pictures of this area. To help the gang? Thanks Don
3925339254

[AZPete]

Hopefully these photos are helpful even though the windshield is mounted.
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[RM1SepEx]

How many gallons in your tank? DMC7492

[Harley818]

Xusia did one that was similar and I seem to remember 11-12 gallons. his was installed from the bottom. I assume DMC is installing from the bottom as well?
I'm still thinking about this option. Maybe as a later upgrade.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Xusia did one that was similar and I seem to remember 11-12 gallons. his was installed from the bottom. I assume DMC is installing from the bottom as well?
I'm still thinking about this option. Maybe as a later upgrade.
Mine is 14.0 filled to the brim. 13 usable.
Bob

[DMC7492]

Hi guys, the pictures were what I was looking for. I went underneath the frame for the fill tube, just pressure tested and now to cut the hole for the sending unit and the aeromotive fuel pump.
My calculated volume is 12.8 gallons. However there is internal baffling so it will probably come in around 12 gallons.
It does install from the bottom an remove able frame and a aluminum plate are underneath the tank.3933239333

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Looks very good Don. I'm going to copy your under tank steel. I was just was going to mount a large trapezoid plate. Your steel (M Bracket) looks much better in compression.
Keep thinking outside the box.
Bob

[DMC7492]

I'm going to copy your under tank steel. I was just was going to mount a large trapezoid plate.
Bob

Hi Bob this is the plate I put between the tank and the steel M.
39337

[DMC7492]

Okay here it is mounted in place and ready to plumb and wire 3966939670

[Flamshackle]

Okay here it is mounted in place and ready to plumb and wire 3966939670

LOVE THIS! IMO the best mod I have seen so far. I will definitely try and do this. The biggest benefit is the weight distribution advantage.

[wleehendrick]

LOVE THIS! IMO the best mod I have seen so far. I will definitely try and do this. The biggest benefit is the weight distribution advantage.

Just keep in mind that with the stock location, weight distribution changes little with fuel load. With a front tank, there's a bigger difference in F/R% between full and empty tank... could have an effect on handling balance.

[Flamshackle]

Just keep in mind that with the stock location, weight distribution changes little with fuel load. With a front tank, there's a bigger difference in F/R% between full and empty tank... could have an effect on handling balance.

good baffling would eliminate that concern

[wleehendrick]

good baffling would eliminate that concern

:confused: I'm not talking about fuel sloshing unbder G's... it's the weight difference between a full and empty tank. In the middle of the car the weight distribution won't be significantly affected by how much fuel is in the tank, but when the tank is between the front wheels, the wet vs dry weight distribution will be shifted significantly forward. It's probably not an issue for a street/autocross car, but for long/endurance racing, I would imagine that location could pose issues with trying to balance handling as the front end lightens up as you burn through the tank.

[billjr212]

LOVE THIS! IMO the best mod I have seen so far. I will definitely try and do this. The biggest benefit is the weight distribution advantage.

This is a modification primarily for space considerations for taller drivers. From what I can tell, the adjustment to weight distribution would be a negative, if anything. Seems fairly well established that a little rear bias (around 60%) is better. This also moves the tank from the center of the car to directly between the front tires (thus increasing the moment of inertia). Again, not saying this is going to be huge and there are lots of other factors, just saying it shouldn't be considered as a performance improving modification.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

:confused: I'm not talking about fuel sloshing unbder G's... it's the weight difference between a full and empty tank. In the middle of the car the weight distribution won't be significantly affected by how much fuel is in the tank, but when the tank is between the front wheels, the wet vs dry weight distribution will be shifted significantly forward. It's probably not an issue for a street/autocross car, but for long/endurance racing, I would imagine that location could pose issues with trying to balance handling as the front end lightens up as you burn through the tank.

Since I looked at this a long time ago.

The CG of my front tank is only a 8" behind the front axle.
My front tank holds 14 gallons x 6.3 = 88 lbs
The front end of the 818 is coming in about 700 lbs without battery.
So 88/700 = 12.5% (+/-6% from 1/2 tank) load change on the front axle.
88 lbs on my car will change the ride height by 3/16"

Our front axle load also changes by 100 lbs with me sitting in the passenger seat.
Bob

PS: My tank is fully foamed to prevent sloshing.
.

[Flamshackle]

This is a modification primarily for space considerations for taller drivers. From what I can tell, the adjustment to weight distribution would be a negative, if anything. Seems fairly well established that a little rear bias (around 60%) is better. This also moves the tank from the center of the car to directly between the front tires (thus increasing the moment of inertia). Again, not saying this is going to be huge and there are lots of other factors, just saying it shouldn't be considered as a performance improving modification.

I am 6 ft 4 so that is another win

[DMC7492]

I did a search on front fuel tanks. Some one already has done this...Bumping thread there seems to be another front tank thread started but these might need to be combined.