FFR / Lucas Windshield Wiper - Self Park Problem Solved

[Gumball]

UPDATED 7/18/16 - Here's one that could save some of you quite a bit of diagnostic time... especially if you're wiper motor has been sitting for some time and hasn't been used / cycled, resulting in a stuck plunger that is part of the switch.

Original Post Follows.....


Sort of long, but this is a really simple fix for what may seem like a complicated problem at first. This short fix will possibly save you from lots of headaches and frustration if your wiper won't park.

I'm using a Lucas rotary wiper switch and the FFR-supplied wiper motor. Lots of good threads here on the subject and one of them resulted in a great wiring diagram for use with my switch. Unfortunately, the park function still didn't work. After double checking all the wiring, I figured it was a mechanical issue.

Sure enough, the spring loaded pin/post that activates the park switch was stuck in the "down" position, which results in the motor always thinking it's in the park position when the dash switch is turned off.

The switch is contained in the electrical connector on the outside of the motor - the opaque white plastic part. It's held to the motor by a single clip and is easily removed. It helps to have the motor out of the car. I took the backing plate off, then removed the two "C" clips that hold the round gear in place and popped that out of the housing. Using a flat blade screwdriver to lightly pry up on the clip holding the electrical connector in place, it popped right off.

Here's a stock picture I found on the web showing the park switch / electrical connector removed from the wiper motor - note the pin/post sticking up in the top of this picture. The point where the harness plugs into this when mounted on the motor is the the right. The spade terminals that are visible are those that connect to the wires going down into the lower motor housing:

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/untitled_zps9fed3c4d.png (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/untitled_zps9fed3c4d.png.html)

The park switch operates very simply. When looking at the electrical connector on the motor, the lower right spade terminal is the one for 12v feed to the park function. The spade terminal directly above that is for the park switch. The round nylon gear that you removed (above paragraph) has a short ramp - 3/4" long or so - and when that passes over the spring loaded pin/post on the electrical connector, it pushes the pin/post down, which disconnects the power between the two spade terminals. So, when the dash switch is turned off, if the ramp is not pushing the pin/post down, there is an electrical connection that takes over between the park 12v and the park switch terminals, allowing the motor to make the rest of the rotation until that ramp pushes the pin/post down, cutting off the electricity.

Here's a pic of the nylon gear and ramp (called the "bridge" in this pic) that I found on the web... this is not my gear:

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/wiper1_zpsd1e67046.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/wiper1_zpsd1e67046.jpg.html)

The problem with mine was very simple. I'm sure that the motor was tested at the factory, but according to the tag on the back of the unit, that was in 2008. When they tested it, it would have stopped at the park setting, with that pin/post pushed down. Well, after sitting like that for six years (nearly five of those on my shelf), it is no surprise that it stayed in that position when the motor turned during my tests. And, when I turned off he dash switch, it simply thought it was at park. I manipulated it a little and after a couple of pushes (it had a little spring loaded movement, but not much), it sprang fully out into the "on" position. I added a little dialectric grease to lubricate it and all now seems fine.

So, if your park function doesn't work, try this little trick to make sure that the pin/post is protruding about 3/8" out of the housing when removed from the car. Also, you can check continuity to make sure that you have contact when it's "out" and no continuity when pushed "in."

Finally, if there's no continuity between the two right side spade terminals, your motor is either actually parked or, like mine was, the switch is stuck in the "in" position.

[Unicoiman]

Sort of long, but this is a really simple fix for what may seem like a complicated problem at first. This short fix will possibly save you from lots of headaches and frustration if your wiper won't park.

I'm using a Lucas rotary wiper switch and the FFR-supplied wiper motor. Lots of good threads here on the subject and one of them resulted in a great wiring diagram for use with my switch. Unfortunately, the park function still didn't work. After double checking all the wiring, I figured it was a mechanical issue.

Sure enough, the spring loaded pin/post that activates the park switch was stuck in the "down" position, which results in the motor always thinking it's in the park position when the dash switch is turned off.

The switch is contained in the electrical connector on the outside of the motor - the opaque white plastic part. It's held to the motor by a single clip and is easily removed. It helps to have the motor out of the car. I took the backing plate off, then removed the two "C" clips that hold the round gear in place and popped that out of the housing. Using a flat blade screwdriver to lightly pry up on the clip holding the electrical connector in place, it popped right off.

Here's a stock picture I found on the web showing the park switch / electrical connector removed from the wiper motor - note the pin/post sticking up in the top of this picture. The point where the harness plugs into this when mounted on the motor is the the right. The spade terminals that are visible are those that connect to the wires going down into the lower motor housing:

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/untitled_zps9fed3c4d.png (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/untitled_zps9fed3c4d.png.html)

The park switch operates very simply. When looking at the electrical connector on the motor, the lower right spade terminal is the one for 12v feed to the park function. The spade terminal directly above that is for the park switch. The round nylon gear that you removed (above paragraph) has a short ramp - 3/4" long or so - and when that passes over the spring loaded pin/post on the electrical connector, it pushes the pin/post down, which disconnects the power between the two spade terminals. So, when the dash switch is turned off, if the ramp is not pushing the pin/post down, there is an electrical connection that takes over between the park 12v and the park switch terminals, allowing the motor to make the rest of the rotation until that ramp pushes the pin/post down, cutting off the electricity.

Here's a pic of the nylon gear and ramp (called the "bridge" in this pic) that I found on the web... this is not my gear:

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/wiper1_zpsd1e67046.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/wiper1_zpsd1e67046.jpg.html)

The problem with mine was very simple. I'm sure that the motor was tested at the factory, but according to the tag on the back of the unit, that was in 2008. When they tested it, it would have stopped at the park setting, with that pin/post pushed down. Well, after sitting like that for six years (nearly five of those on my shelf), it is no surprise that it stayed in that position when the motor turned during my tests. And, when I turned off he dash switch, it simply thought it was at park. I manipulated it a little and after a couple of pushes (it had a little spring loaded movement, but not much), it sprang fully out into the "on" position. I added a little dialectric grease to lubricate it and all now seems fine.

So, if your park function doesn't work, try this little trick to make sure that the pin/post is protruding about 3/8" out of the housing when removed from the car. Also, you can check continuity to make sure that you have contact when it's "out" and no continuity when pushed "in."

Finally, if there's no continuity between the two right side spade terminals, your motor is either actually parked or, like mine was, the switch is stuck in the "in" position.


I am in total agreement that there is a lot of info on the workings of the Lucas wiper motor and its associated control switch. I had an issue also that mine would not "park". I review all the comments that I could find on our US website and then went to the UK website. There I also found a ton of information on the motor and its wiring. After all this review the wiring circuit is rather simple as stated by all the comments in the Forum. My problem was in the park switch itself. I had two choices to get it resolved. Send the motor back to FFR for replacement or dig into the switch and fix it. This park switch is nothing more than a single pole double throw switch, activated by a plastic cam on the bottom of the motor gear. I made pictures of the switch (with the top removed) for future reference. My problem was the common pole was not making good connection with a contact. A little bending of the common pole corrected the problem. I am attaching a picture of the switch disassembled so someone else in the future can better understand how the thing works.

[dforthof]

Gumball, Thanks for the thread, it helped me easily fix the exact same issue in 1/2 hour instead of days.

[Gumball]

Today's TTT on an old post that may help someone dealing with a "sticky" wiper motor with a non-operational self-park function.

[ThickCobra]

Chris,

Thanks for the advice. On a related note, I'm trying to source a female electrical connector for the wiper motor. The kit provides 5-6 individual blue connectors but I'd prefer 1 plug. Thoughts.

Jay

[Gumball]

Jay,

There is a pig-tail connector available from a variety of sources that you just need to splice into your wires and then it plugs right into the wiper motor.

I think ********** sells one, as well as other places like Moss Motors and Cobra Restorers. I bought mine through Mini Spares in England when I placed an order for a few other things.

Heres a link to a thread I started on the subject with a photo of the part.....

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?13909-FFR-Wiper-Motor-Wiring-loom-and-connector

[ThickCobra]

I found one at **********, thanks. Its going to work great. I hope you were out enjoying the weather today.

[GWL]

Moss Motors has lots of good videos regarding the old sports cars including this one on the Lucas Windshield Wiper Motors. Enjoy!

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=moss+motors+lucas+windshield+video&qpvt=moss+motors+lucas+windshield+video&view=detail&mid=FB699B9C7A590ABA16D8FB699B9C7A590ABA16D8&FORM=VRDGAR

George

[ThickCobra]

Great instructional video. Thanks.

[MeadMotors]

I have followed these steps exactly and I am still unable to get the Park feature to work. I have tried adding a relay as described but there is no change. I disassembled the motor and park switch and tested all of the functions. I would consider myself to be me mechanically inclined as well as 12v savvy but this problem has taken up my whole weekend and has me left feeling defeated. Any recommendations on next steps or should I just give up on the Park feature. :-/

[edwardb]

I have followed these steps exactly and I am still unable to get the Park feature to work. I have tried adding a relay as described but there is no change. I disassembled the motor and park switch and tested all of the functions. I would consider myself to be me mechanically inclined as well as 12v savvy but this problem has taken up my whole weekend and has me left feeling defeated. Any recommendations on next steps or should I just give up on the Park feature. :-/

Just to confirm (sorry, basic questions...) you're using the wiper system from Factory Five (Lucas reproduction), the provided wiper switch, and it's wired exactly like the wiper schematic shows? Short of an internal defect with the parking mechanism (detailed in earlier posts in this thread) the system will park. A relay isn't required. The dedicated wiper switch is kind of the secret of this setup.

[MeadMotors]

Yes, that is correct. Everything is wire exactly as shown in the schematic and I only added the relay as it resolved the issue on another post. Honestly, you are right though. The relay just duplicates what the FFR park wiper switch is already doing. I've reached out to FFR to see if they are willing to help in any way, but since my kit is from 2015, I'm not expecting them to replace it. If I can't get it to work correctly, I will just have to live with no park function but it seems like a simple enough setup that I should be able to find a solution.

Since you seem to be familiar with this setup, I will ask a question that has puzzled me. With the wiring done correctly (no relay) and the switch in the off position, I can touch 12v power to the park wire (yellow) on the wiper switch and the motor rotates to the park position. When the park pin gets pushed in, the motor stops but also blows the 10amp fuse. Would this be normal or does it sound like there is a direct short on the wiring?

Thanks again for your help!

[edwardb]

Yes, that is correct. Everything is wire exactly as shown in the schematic and I only added the relay as it resolved the issue on another post. Honestly, you are right though. The relay just duplicates what the FFR park wiper switch is already doing. I've reached out to FFR to see if they are willing to help in any way, but since my kit is from 2015, I'm not expecting them to replace it. If I can't get it to work correctly, I will just have to live with no park function but it seems like a simple enough setup that I should be able to find a solution.

Since you seem to be familiar with this setup, I will ask a question that has puzzled me. With the wiring done correctly (no relay) and the switch in the off position, I can touch 12v power to the park wire (yellow) on the wiper switch and the motor rotates to the park position. When the park pin gets pushed in, the motor stops but also blows the 10amp fuse. Would this be normal or does it sound like there is a direct short on the wiring?

Thanks again for your help!

Don't claim to be an expert. Just have installed several per the instructions and they worked correctly. My observation is guys get into trouble when they try to use a different switch. Then the modifications and relays come out trying to get the system to park. With the dedicated switch, mine have always worked properly.

I'm slightly confused by your comment about applying voltage to the park wire on the switch. Wouldn't do that, especially since it's blowing fuses. What's not exactly intuitive (IMO...) about the wiring for this setup is +12V is required in two places. Both can come from the RF wiper circuit. One at the switch, which is turned on and off by the switch. And another at the motor which enables the park function. That connection has to be +12V at all times, e.g. not switched. This is the diagram I've used for wiring mine. If you have yours wired exactly like this, including not switching the +12V at the motor, then seems something is wrong. Sorry I can't be any more help than that.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Electrical/.highres/LucasWiperSwitch_zps4uts9ezd.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/91d1b235-3b11-4308-85a4-055dadcc1f9e/p/d0214847-c074-4e30-b912-d823ca791607)

[GTBradley]

I found an easy way to make the wipers function properly and have intermittent/wash functions using a different switch - no relays or special wiring required. Have you considered using the Cole Hersee (https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/cole-hersee/cole-hersee-windshield-wiper-switch/ch00/7560004?q=75600-04&pos=0) multi-function switch from O'reilly's? I detailed this mod on my build page, post number 586 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30668-GTBradley-s-build-Intermittent-wipers-and-washer/page15) if you are interested.

[edwardb]

I found an easy way to make the wipers function properly and have intermittent/wash functions using a different switch - no relays or special wiring required. Have you considered using the Cole Hersee (https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/cole-hersee/cole-hersee-windshield-wiper-switch/ch00/7560004?q=75600-04&pos=0) multi-function switch from O'reilly's? I detailed this mod on my build page, post number 586 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30668-GTBradley-s-build-Intermittent-wipers-and-washer/page15) if you are interested.

Agreed, that switch works perfectly. That's what I used in my Coupe build, which also has washers. Works exactly like a DD (without an automatic rain sensor :p). Push to squirt washers and get several wipes before shutting back off and an intermittent wipe setting in addition to low and high. Parks perfectly as well. BTW, here's a direct link to the actual post, not just the page. Which details it very well. Nice job. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30668-GTBradley-s-build-Powder-coating-large-items-DIY&p=471397&viewfull=1#post471397.

[MeadMotors]

Agreed, that switch works perfectly. That's what I used in my Coupe build, which also has washers. Works exactly like a DD (without an automatic rain sensor :p). Push to squirt washers and get several wipes before shutting back off and an intermittent wipe setting in addition to low and high. Parks perfectly as well. BTW, here's a direct link to the actual post, not just the page. Which details it very well. Nice job. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30668-GTBradley-s-build-Powder-coating-large-items-DIY&p=471397&viewfull=1#post471397.

Thanks for all the help! I have verified that my wiring is correct and have been working with FFR as well. They seem to think I have a faulty park switch on the motor. Hopefully when I install the new one we will see that it was just a simple bad switch. Sucks that I've spent this much time on the wipers! I will update this page once I know for sure. Thanks again!

[GTBradley]

Agreed, that switch works perfectly. That's what I used in my Coupe build, which also has washers. Works exactly like a DD (without an automatic rain sensor :p). Push to squirt washers and get several wipes before shutting back off and an intermittent wipe setting in addition to low and high. Parks perfectly as well. BTW, here's a direct link to the actual post, not just the page. Which details it very well. Nice job. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30668-GTBradley-s-build-Powder-coating-large-items-DIY&p=471397&viewfull=1#post471397.
Interesting, Paul. I've been meaning to find out how that is done. How are you able to direct the link to the exact post?

[Windsor]

Interesting, Paul. I've been meaning to find out how that is done. How are you able to direct the link to the exact post?

The number on the right side of the blue bar at the top of each post.

In the case of mine, look for #18, it is also the direct link.

[edwardb]

Interesting, Paul. I've been meaning to find out how that is done. How are you able to direct the link to the exact post?

Easy. Go to the exact post you want to link to. Put the mouse pointer on the post number at the top RH corner. Right click to get a pull down. Click on "Copy link address." Go to wherever you want to post the link and paste (right click -> paste or Ctrl-V). The pasted URL will go directly to the selected post.

[GTBradley]

#19 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?14002-FFR-Lucas-Windshield-Wiper-Self-Park-Problem-Solved&p=486893&viewfull=1#post486893)

I did not know that was there. Thank you.