Friendly debate on 818 prices

[michael everson]

I would like to start a debate on 818 prices. I am suprised to see Ericks car not sell on Ebay. His price seems very reasonable given the work that has gone into it. I know there are very few for sale right now. What are peoples opinion on prices for these? Is $30K too much? Maybe they are just too new and people dont know anything about them? FFRs reputation should help sell completed cars.
Mike

[RM1SepEx]

Anything's price is defined only by what someone is willing to pay for it. It is early and shelling out that much $ for something that you have never seen is tough. Perhaps if he was willing to wait longer a buyer would be found.

It brings up another question, what is your time worth? Does anyone get much for their time building a kit car? I'd expect to get a bit more than your cost in parts etc... You have built a ton of these cars... you have a better perspective than most!

I keep all my vehicles for ever... :)

[Frank818]

His car is on ebay?
I did a search for "Factory Five 818" and it didn't return the result of his car.

[VD2021]

Seems, in our current economy, there is no compensation for the labor when it comes time to sell.

[Pearldrummer7]

I was surprised that the car wasn't snatched up at that price, as well. I suppose it makes sense, if used Elise's go for similar prices, and a little more reputable than a car built in a garage (though, maybe not by much ;) ).

Once they're a little more popular, and people recognize them from track events, etc. I think they'll sell better.

[Kalstar]

Seems, in our current economy, there is no compensation for the labor when it comes time to sell.

Labor is not equated in value. If the car is done and the buyer has no input into customization then they are buying a completed car and put little into what it took to build it.

As for value, I would say 25k at this point. If someone was building one to sell, I would start marketing with no paint no interior with cost options to finish to the buyers liking. 22k with stock interior no paint 27k with customer chosen paint, 29k with paint and customer chosen custom interior.

[Presto51]

I would like to start a debate on 818 prices. I am suprised to see Ericks car not sell on Ebay. His price seems very reasonable given the work that has gone into it. I know there are very few for sale right now. What are peoples opinion on prices for these? Is $30K too much? Maybe they are just too new and people dont know anything about them? FFRs reputation should help sell completed cars.
Mike

IMHO the 818 is really to new, the buying public has no idea what it is. It has not developed any history of accomplishments.

Example: The Daytona Coupe if it didn't win any of the big races it would go into the dust bin of auto racing history as a foot note, instead of writing it's own chapter, and nobody would dream, drool over it, and pay money to own a copy.

Ron

[Mechie3]

Agree with others. It's too new, too unknown, and too expensive for those factors. If more people knew what it was and it had a proven history it would sell. I would think that $25k is a reasonable starting point given that's what it would cost to build it yourself. The quality of craftsmanship would determine where it goes from there.

[Goldwing]

I think you guys are on point about the publicity. I'm sure that is a driving reason behind getting the R on a track this year with John George. Once we found it, many of us were hooked rather easily I'd say. Others will follow as they get exposed to it. It seems everyone who gets a chance to drive it comes away gushing about the car. Time will likely be the 818s friend as more learn about it.

[longislandwrx]

Just my humble opinion...

It's also never been registered iirc. Saying it's street legal isn't a magic bullet. A car with plates in the state for sale would be less of an unknown for a local buyer.

I also think a new odometer with the proper mileage showing would help.

I think its absolutely worth $25k, If plated and for sale on consignment at a high end used retailer I think it would sell pretty quick.

[Frank818]

Hey longisland, what are the rules in USA when you buy such a kit car from another state? If it is plated in AL, can you import it hassle free in NY, for example?

[AZPete]

Nobody knows what it is. Maybe best place to sell it is here, where it's known, not Ebay? I think this will be a problem for several years until the 818 is more widely known. Isn't that still a problem for the GTM?

[OCCPete]

JHMO - e-bay is a terrible place to sell a unique car unless you just want to dump it.

[Xusia]

Hey longisland, what are the rules in USA when you buy such a kit car from another state? If it is plated in AL, can you import it hassle free in NY, for example?

Hey Frank. There's no "import" when moving from state to state. I don't have any experience with kit cars, but for manufacturer built cars it's a simple matter of registering it in the new state (you just let the registration in the old state expire - no need to notify them). I would imagine it's similar for a kit car. Once it's been registered in one state, registering in a new state should be fairly seamless. The only hold might be if they recognize it as a specialty vehicle (and care!) and put it through an inspection or something.

[wleehendrick]

Hey Frank. There's no "import" when moving from state to state. I don't have any experience with kit cars, but for manufacturer built cars it's a simple matter of registering it in the new state (you just let the registration in the old state expire - no need to notify them). I would imagine it's similar for a kit car. Once it's been registered in one state, registering in a new state should be fairly seamless. The only hold might be if they recognize it as a specialty vehicle (and care!) and put it through an inspection or something.

Since every state has different ways of handling kit cars, and imposes different safety and emission requirements on them, I image it could be a nightmare 'importing' a car from a state with lax requirements and trying to get it registered in a state with tougher requirements. I know what CA's requirements are for a specially constructed vehicle, but would not even guess at the hoops you might have to jump through elsewhere.

[Xusia]

But would that even happen? You already have a title and registration from another state. Usually you just fill out some paperwork and turn it in. Would they even notice it's a specialty vehicle? Would they care? The inspections and such are generally part of the initial titling process, not part of the registration. (right??)

[Rasmus]

Cars are not investments. Expecting to get more out of one monetarily than you put in to them is folly. And fellas, we're out on a risky limb here, these are kit cars.

[wleehendrick]

But would that even happen? You already have a title and registration from another state. Usually you just fill out some paperwork and turn it in. Would they even notice it's a specialty vehicle? Would they care? The inspections and such are generally part of the initial titling process, not part of the registration. (right??)

Like I say... I don't know, but I'm sure it depends heavily on the states to/from. For example, in CA you don't have to meet current emissions standards (if you do the SB100 paperwork right). I don't think you could move it to Vegas and just get a free pass (NV requires all the emissions from the donor motor to be intact). States that require catalytic converters, evaporative emissions controls, etc... would probably force compliance.

[Evan78]

Here's the auction in question:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replica-Kit-Makes-Factory-Five-818S-Factory-Five-818S-/131144380239?forcerrptr=true&hash=item1e88d06f4f&item=131144380239&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

Here's some other unsold 818 auction:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replica-Kit-Makes-818-Street-Factory-Five-Racing-818S-kit-with-2006-WRX-donor-/291100666932?forcerrptr=true&hash=item43c6f3ac34&item=291100666932&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

[Evan78]

Oops, looks like he relisted it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replica-Kit-Makes-Factory-Five-818S-Factory-Five-818S-/131154285958?forcerrptr=true&hash=item1e89679586&item=131154285958&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

[OCCPete]

It doesn't help that his pics in the ebay ad are terrible. Erik, you might want to read this: http://www.cobracountry.com/CobraPhotoTipsDipStix.pdf

[4wheelspin]

I think it is worth 30K.
I think the issue right now is that its too `new` on the market for 95% of the general car guys. Get people in the passenger seat and they will be sold.
For the people that think the price is too HIGH.
Let them buy a kit (waiting list is what 6month??).
Buy all the donor parts...
Build it themselves if they are mechanically inclined... another 6 month
Or pay a shop to build them one.
thats when they will see that 30K is very well priced to drive one tomorrow.

Spiro

[bompus]

I think 30K is actually low. I know that personally I will be spending more than 30K to complete my build. Most builders without free/affordable access to everything they need ( picking up vs. shipping, donor, painting, etc ) will probably spend somewhere around 30K just to finish it.

[metalmaker12]

25k is the low and should sell for 35k once it's put there if it's well built, nice paint etc

[Westview]

I think advertising an 818 in Grassroots Motorsports magazine would put your ad in front of a better audience. They are in the middle of the series of article covering their 818 build. So readers know what it is.

[fritts]

Modified cars/kit cars hardly ever go for even the price of the parts let alone the labor on top. Another issue with a completely built car is that part of the fun in a kit car is customizing and building it the way you want, which has been completely removed by buying an already built car.

[TahoeTim]

FFR is part of the problem. In their marketing including print and videos, they respond to the question of "how much?" with a reply of $15000. So anything over that appears as gouging to the average Joe. I understand why they market it as cheap to build but it is simply not the truth. A Cobra build is 3x the kit price. I am guessing my 818 will be 2x the kit, minimum. Most of us can't pick up our kits from the factory. And a lot of guys have sunk costs in tools, etc. The reality is that I will be in closer to $15k as I wave goodbye to Stewart. That's not including the donor and a set of wheels and tires.

There's no way I can leave the body white as shipped (sorry guys but that screams kit car) so I am looking at a wrap to be different.


The cobras built by the book with a stock greasy efi engine wouldn't sell either. I sold mine for $33k and it was a top drawer build. I got my costs out of it and a lot of enjoyment. I remember a controversy back then. Owners were complaining about others selling their cars too cheap. Listing a car on ebay drops its value $5k just because of the ebay reputation. Take it to shows, parades, etc and work to get top dollar.


friendly but firm...