solar power?

[michael everson]

I have really been thinking about solar energy lately. I believe I have the ideal roof to mount panels. Ihave some questions about the whole thing though. BTW, my electric bill averages about $250.00 per month. I don't really want any out of pocket expense. I have heard of places that do it for free and then sell me the power. I really dont want to get scammed into something that will cost me money in the end. All the commercials I hear sound too good to be true.
questions

1. Has anybody in the North East done this?
2. Are there true savings even without owning the equipment?
3. Are there government incentives to offsett the cost if I paid for it mself?
4. Anyone know of a reputable company that does this?

Thanks Mike

[RM1SepEx]

there is a website where you can actually see the placement and gauge solar gain online. We do NOT have enough sun in the northeast to make panels at their current cost and eff to pay for themselves at current rates. I might break even in 25 years at my home, even with tax credits. (assuming no equipment problems)
ALL of the tax credits require expensive, approved contractors. If I could self install, payback would be possible.
You need to have a new roof under the panels too.
The feds will give you rebates, the state might. even with those rebates I can't justify panels on my home in Maine and I have a super insulated passive solar home
solar hot water will pay for itself quite rapidly.
Most systems are grid tied and if the power company goes out, you can't get power from your panels.
some localities out west have required that power companies provide solar in their mix, in that case it can be made to pay off, you get subsidized by other rate payers. It cost less for the power company to provide residential systems and add their capacity to the grid vs funding huge solar projects... Xusia has this setup in Oregon ? I believe...
What is your current eletricity rate? $250 is a huge electric bill to do in solar, you would need a huge roof to provide that much juice. How many KWH per month???

[skullandbones]

Hi Mike,

You are in the wrong place at the wrong time. There were better opportunities when the solar panel industry was booming. You could actually get a great deal and see the system paying itself off in a reasonable time. I think those days are gone. It is pricy and the return is long term. There is a lady in our neighborhood who has a full array of panels (supplies her monthly usage). It cost her $38000 after all incentives were exhausted. You probably don't have the room and solar output from the northeastern Sun to do that. Plus who wants to wait 25 to 30 years to say, "I broke even". I think the approved contractors in these solar/electric company agreements are coming out much better than the customers spending the money. JMO, WEK.

[flynntuna]

A couple things to consider, if you lease the system and decide to sell your home the prospective buyer will have to qualify for a home loan and the remaining portion of the lease. These leases generally run 25yrs then the come to resell you a new lease. Solar systems are usually guaranteed for 25yrs and are designed to last much longer, although the output generally declines a bit over the life of the system which could be more than 40yrs. We are looking to purchase a system soon too.
If you decide to buy, the manufacturer of the panels is important. American panels are the best quality and only a few foreign brands are worth looking at.

[THE ITALIAN]

Panels are still a luxury for the most part. In Calif they tax you to death on top of everything each month. For me, it does not pencil yet, even a lease.
I found a supplier that would set me up (buying) for 18k DIY, but it still doesn't make sense. We have a tier program where I live, and many get solar to drop down the tier to lower their bills. My home would cost out of pocket $7k for a lease and I would pay the 150.00 per month lease, well my bill is between 150 & 190 per month.So if I add in the $7 K for the lease after rebates, what am I buying?? $150 X 12 is $1800, I pay that now. Making someone rich I guess and ending up with roof leaks as 2 of my neighbors have.. It really has to get cheaper to make sense. I continue to work on cold fusion in my garage, I will let you know….

[ehansen007]

"I continue to work on cold fusion in my garage, I will let you know…. "

LOL

I was very close to buying solar but with a lease they can't even estimate what it will be worth to buy it out at the end. Could be worthless, could be 10K. without a number I find it hard to commit. However my neighbor put it in and has been putting the power to the grid every month except one in two years. His payback on a straight buy for $26K has gone from 10 years to 6. I was considering going with a roofing company for the leakage issue.

[blubullett]

I install solar for a living and all I can say is DO NOT LEASE!! If you don't mind throwing away money go ahead and sign one but they are horrible. My in laws got a quote from one of the lease companys and it was a horrible deal. Over the life of the system they would have been paying over 280k dollars for a system that my company would sell for 50k. And you don't even own it at the end. They will sell it to you at the end of the lease probably for the ammount you could have had it installed in the first place. It also states in the lease they are not responsible for any damage caused to your roof due to installing or removing the system. And what happens if the lease comany goes bankrupt? Does someone come to reposses your system?

All of the systems I have done have a 5-7 year pay off so anything after that is free power. Isn't that the point of solar? To make free power?

I don't know about where you live but in CA you get a rebate from your power company that varies, now it is under a buck a watt I believe but when I did my house five years ago it was 3.15 a watt and paid for a lot of my system, and you get a federal tax credit for 30% of the cost of the entire job. If your house needs a new roof you get 30% back because it is part of the solar system, if you build a canopy in the back yard to put it on you get 30% of it back, ect.

If you don't have the cash go to the bank and get a loan. It is the only thing that makes sense if you do the math to find out what the lease will cost you versus what the cost of buying one from your local contractor.

[Quiny]

Mike did you end up going with solar? I was considering it as well.

[RM1SepEx]

Equipment costs are dropping rapidly, newer technologies like panel optimizers reduce shading concerns. Our town has a group buy going on right now at an installed cost of $3.00 a watt. (rood mount, $4.00 for ground mount and $32,000 for a 7KW tracker) At that roof cost with a 30% Federal credit (which is only currently available for the next 2 years) it will take about 11 years to get payback. With net metering a fixed array's angle isn't critical but up here snow coverage losses can be substantial. Panels are getting cheap enough to add panels vs getting a tracker (40% output gain per panel W).

Maine has no local credit programs and blubullett's suggestion that a new roof or adding a building to support an array... sounds like opportunity for an IRS audit, doesn't it?

Use this site to do some solar electric output analysis http://www.nrel.gov/analysis/

I found that if I work as my own general contractor I can by all the equipment down to every sticker (about 20 of them!) I can buy the equipment for $2.00 a watt for a roof system. Installing the rails and panels should be a one day job for a crew of 3 and a local master electrician would do the box, line side tap prep etc for $1000 or less. If I go this route I can get 7 year payback and I will proceed.

New standing seam steel roof in reflective copper color already under contract, completion this month.

[esff32]

"I continue to work on cold fusion in my garage, I will let you know…. "

LOL

I was very close to buying solar but with a lease they can't even estimate what it will be worth to buy it out at the end. Could be worthless, could be 10K. without a number I find it hard to commit. However my neighbor put it in and has been putting the power to the grid every month except one in two years. His payback on a straight buy for $26K has gone from 10 years to 6. I was considering going with a roofing company for the leakage issue.

Hey Erik, we had solar installed at the end of 2014. My bill was over $500 a month in the summer. My last bill was $1.88 and my solar loan is almost $100 less than my average bill in the last calendar year. It's a purchase and we recieved 11k in federal tax credits on this years federal return. Call Home Performance Matters and ask for Dan Moncayo. Amazing company. They will come out and do a complete energy audit on your house for free, just tell them I sent you.

Evan

[RM1SepEx]

Evan, how big is your array? I imagine the CA has some mean electricity rates too... we are at an average of .18 per KWH here in Maine. Many people here also find that they can get a loan that will cost about the same as their old bill and will get the electricity well after the loan is paid off

[esff32]

Evan, how big is your array? I imagine the CA has some mean electricity rates too... we are at an average of .18 per KWH here in Maine. Many people here also find that they can get a loan that will cost about the same as their old bill and will get the electricity well after the loan is paid off

I have a 6.35(I think) kW system that generates 100% of my usage. The system has 23 panels. I got a 2.99 % loan through the credit union for 12 years. They allow a one time reamortization of the loan once we receive our federal tax credit and put it down on the loan. The loan amount is about $90 cheaper than my average bill and they say it will start paying for itself in about 6 years or so. I did the solar as a part of an overall energy upgrade program that included a variable speed pool pump, insulation, etc. I'm just tired of paying ridiculous rates and they are projected to increase 30% over the next few years.

[RM1SepEx]

My roof can hold just over 9kw and I'll still get a bill, I use a bunch of juice! Does CA have additional incentives? I struggle with having others essentially pay for my power but they do it to us all in many other areas so I finally decided to take advantage of the tax breaks. I talked to someone else on this forum in Oregon and the power company and incentives virtually paid for everything! The utility used the incentives to meet their regulated requirement for renewable energy %. Inventive idea meeting regulatory req. with customer installations.

I'm expecting about $20,000 installed cost with a $6000 tax credit.

[flynntuna]

All of the Ca. Incentives have expired. My system should be up hopefully by May. We've had issues with back ordered panels :mad:

[68GT500MAN]

Working on getting a 9.5kW system installed here in California. It will be a purchase and allow me to use the AC and pool as much as I want in the summer while getting a credit in the cooler months. The rumors of increasing PG&E rates are what finally pushed me into doing something. I will be glad to get rid of my $450+ summer electric bills! System will be paid off in 7 years or less.
Doug

[bansheekev]

Working on getting a 9.5kW system installed here in California. It will be a purchase and allow me to use the AC and pool as much as I want in the summer while getting a credit in the cooler months. The rumors of increasing PG&E rates are what finally pushed me into doing something. I will be glad to get rid of my $450+ summer electric bills! System will be paid off in 7 years or less.
Doug

I had my 9kW system installed in November 2014 in NorCal. For us break even is just over 5 years ($2.90/watt after 30% federal tax credit). No brainer. Very happy. Now I can shop for the keg-r-ator. I refused to add anymore appliances until the bill was under control (water well and booster pumps, ponds, pool, 4 kids, etc, etc, etc). We went negative in March generating more than we are using.

Kevin

[first time builder]

What is life expectancy of the panels? I had heard that most lose effeciency after a few years and will probably be worthlees when finaly paid off. What happens when a hailstorm hits you?

Kenny

[RM1SepEx]

Warranteed power #'s for 25 years, check out videos for strength of panels, they shoot high speed hail, baseballs and drive over them with trucks.

This is from MFG of the panels I'm looking at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53MY1rL8gw8 http://www.solarworld-usa.com/technical-downloads/warranties-certifications

[flynntuna]

It's inportant to buy from the right company. American made is the best, there are some good German and South Korean co as well. Avoid Chinese, mostly junk.

[RM1SepEx]

Mine are American and German. If I work as a general contractor I can do $1.60 a watt installed after the 30% tax credit and with our rates that will give me a 7 year payback on a 9135 watt system.

The local solar contractor working with my town will do $3 a watt for a roof system before the credit.

[first time builder]

RM1 thanks, that impressive. I think my biggest complaint is all the high pressure sales going on from both phone solicitors, door kocking people and in the malls and Home Improvemnet stores. Hell if I want it I'll get it I dont need to be harrased daily about it.

Kenny

[ehansen007]

All of the Ca. Incentives have expired. My system should be up hopefully by May. We've had issues with back ordered panels :mad:

This is not true. There is still a 30% tax credit from the fed through 2015. I finally got mine straightened out and have a loan on it for 1.89 percent for 12 years. Getting ready to install as well as put in a new variable speed pool pump which the credit also applies to. Not that there's any water to put in the pool.... :)

[flynntuna]

Very true the fed credits are still there, the Calif. Credits have run out.

[RM1SepEx]

Fed credit runs through 2016, make sure that you can offset the credit with taxes as it isn't a refundable credit and while it can be rolled into the next year currently there is nothing stating that it will be able to be rolled past the current expiration date