Power Steering Rack

[RdstrRod]

I've been looking for a Power Steering Rack to go in my upcoming 5.0/T5 build. FFR Tech said to use one from any 87-93 Mustang. Sounded easy. However, now I see 2.25, 2.5, and 3 turn lock-to-lock racks. Any advice on what would be the best ratio rack for a fun-to-drive street cruiser? Are there any Mounting or Tie Rod issues involved versus the FFR supplied manual rack? Also, what about the Power Steering Hoses? I'm considering a Heidt Adjustable Valve, so will probably need some custom length hoses. Are there resources for those? Is it feasible to make my own?
Lots of questions. Lots more coming…...
Thanks, Rod

[edwardb]

The 87-93 Mustang information is correct. You can find them at most parts stores such as Auto Zone, etc. I personally chose to use the PS rack sold by Breeze. It's a Unisteer piece and nicely detailed with silver powder coat and 3.0 turns. But a little more $$ than the Auto Zone option. You will get lots of opinions on the turn ratio. I personally chose 3.0 for street use. Mounting isn't an issue. Fits the same as the manual. Tie rods are also the same. May need to shorten the inner tie rods, but that's the same for manual or PS. You can have custom hoses made, or you can make your own with stainless braid/teflon core hoses and AN connectors. A little more pricey, but a nice option is that's what you're going for. Mark at Breeze has the hose and connectors you'll need. Two other things to think about: You will need a different steering shaft adapter than the manual one provided in the kit. You need FFR #14554. Also, many recommend PS rack extenders, FFR #14687. These are intended to reduce bump steer, another subject of much discussion. I installed them on my Mk4 build. They may or may not be included in your kit. I've heard both.

[68GT500MAN]

If you are using power steering I would go with the 3 turn rack for street use. Around here we have a place that will make custom hoses for anything at a very reasonable price (power steering, air conditioning, hydraulics, etc) I would check your local phone book for something similar.
Doug

[skullandbones]

I didn't have an opinion about this before I set mine up but I do now! Go with the 3.0 lock to lock rack. I have stock Mustang PS and rack with 2.5 and it is wickedly quick for the street. I have a Heidt valve ordered but not here yet. I will see if it makes a difference in the comfort level. If not I will be changing to a 3.0 rack. BTW, the way I have my front suspension (6.5 castor) may contribute to that but installing the Heidt valve and testing will verify one way or another. Age of driver, experience, and reflexes may play into the equation also but everyone should know what is their comfort level at the wheel. I'm an older driver but my eye hand coordination is still very good. So it is a very personal choice, I think. I did do an interesting mountain drive yesterday with 7 degree grades and lots of curves. It was a beautiful drive. Car handled well but required constant attention to stay between the lines. 3.0 would have been better. Good luck, WEK.

Note: You should find a local hydraulics shop for the hoses. I spent about $80 for my high pressure hose. Some shops are rather stringent on their rules. This one will not modify a hose to make two shorter from the original or modify someone else's hose. You need to ask the ground rules before committing. Also, if you can find a hot rod oriented shop, it would probably be better.

[skullandbones]

One thing I forgot to mention is that if you designate your build as a PS one, FFR should include the correct adaptor with your kit. Mine was a basic kit and it had what I needed. BTW, FFR uses some really nice steering components. I have had lots of compliments on it. WEK.

[DaleG]

The Breeze braided hoses and fittings are a nice option and easy (also satisfying) to assemble. Here's a tutorial: http://www.hydratechbraking.com/hosetech.html

[CraigS]

Absolutely go w/ the 3.0. I have had that since 06 but 1.5 years ago I installed the 2.5 for autocrosses. Definitely better in slaloms. I put up w/ it on the street until 2 weeks ago when I reinstalled the 3.0 A couple of things also entered into the change. My MkII has the old front suspension geometry but while I had the 2.5 in the car I did the Ackerman mod and finally measured and adjusted the bump steer. Both of those changes made the steering feel even quicker. I think I will be OK w/ the 3.0 for autocrosses w/ those two changes finally done. Your car will already have the Ackerman mod built in, and, if you order the complete kit or order the FFR spindles as an option you will also have bumpsteer very close to perfect upon assembly. Having PS you will also be able to run more caster which makes the car stay on center better. I like 8 degrees. Search for more info as you may need a pair of longer sleeves for the UCAs to do that. As the car comes you can usually get about 6.0 to 6.5 caster. If you use a mustang pump or a GM Saginaw (recommended) you can cut the pressure relief spring to lower the amount of assist. Other than a little bit of mess this is free which compares real well to a heidts valve and all the needed fittings. BTW, if you use a mustang pump you can also use mustang hoses. They need a little bit of custom bending of the solid steel sections to fit. By far the mustang pump and mustang hoses is the least expensive way to get PS.

[Jazzman]

I did do an interesting mountain drive yesterday with 7 degree grades and lots of curves. It was a beautiful drive.
What road did you take? I have certainly seen many great roads here in Arizona that would be wonderful in a Roadster. I currently do them on a Harley. Fantastic either way!

[DaleG]

What road did you take? I have certainly seen many great roads here in Arizona that would be wonderful in a Roadster. I currently do them on a Harley. Fantastic either way!

AZ Rte 89 south from Prescott down to Skull Valley and back through Iron Springs Road is a hoot! You guys that do the Yarnell run to Prescott know what I mean.

[RdstrRod]

Many thanks Craig (and all the others who responded to my query). Looks like it will be a 3 Turn Power Steering Rack. Also, my engine will have a Mustang Pump, so I will either apparently be able to use either the stock Mustang Hoses, or use custom ones. Regarding the Pump itself, how much trouble is it to modify the Pressure Relief Spring? Where is it? And, as a starting point, how much material would have to be removed?
Rod

[Roy]

I used the 2.25 rack in my roadster. Wish I hadn't. I think it is way to sensitive for street use. I thought when building I would be into Autocross. hasn't happened in 7 years. I have even installed the heihts valve and it helped a little. I have it turned way up Love the PS. I would put the 3.0 rack in.

[CraigS]

The spring is very easy to modify. Of course I can't find a good pick right now and I can't find the spec either. Search here and the other forum for those. The good thing is, that if you happen to cut a little too much off, you just shim it up w/ a few small washers.

[Walt]

Are you guys all talking about just power steering are also power steering rack used as manual?

Walt

[edwardb]

Are you guys all talking about just power steering are also power steering rack used as manual? Walt

The responses in this thread so far have been about actual boosted power steering. While I don't have personal experience with it, I've read nothing but really bad things about using a powered rack as manual. It's apparently about the worst possible combination possible. Everything I've read says those that did changed it out either for real power steering or a purpose built manual rack.

[skullandbones]

One thing that surprised me about this thread is that so far it has been unanimous for the 3.0 rack with PS on the street. I wish I had known that when I was working on mine. I would have paid out some extra bucks initially but it would have saved time in the long run. I like it when you get some consensus and it isn't just a p***in contest.

Thanks, WEK.

[Walt]

Any body know if the manual steering rack is workable on a street car or is it better to just go with power to start with.
My issue is the power steering pump,bracket and pulley got hauled off in the remains of my donor 3 days ago, they do not say in the away. Manual about this steering being a issue.

[FFRSpec72]

Any body know if the manual steering rack is workable on a street car or is it better to just go with power to start with.
My issue is the power steering pump,bracket and pulley got hauled off in the remains of my donor 3 days ago, they do not say in the away. Manual about this steering being a issue.

Depends on your camber, I raced without power steering for many seasons, then when we upgraded to the new UCA mount and new spindles I went with power steering as I went from 3 degrees to 8 degrees camber and w/o power steering it would be difficult to crank that wheel around quickly. Took me a season to get used to power steering so if you are going to do it do it from the start, you will be happy, but out more money. The car is very drivable w/o power steering and I enjoyed it more than with power steering. Less to go wrong, cheaper, better feel of the road, juts hard in parking situations.

[edwardb]

Any body know if the manual steering rack is workable on a street car or is it better to just go with power to start with.

Absolutely! I have the FFR supplied manual rack on my Mk3 and running 3 degrees caster, -1/2 degrees camber, approx 1/16 toe in. It's a bit stiff while parking, etc. but for normal driving it works great. The car is a blast to drive and like it's on rails. Many prefer the simplicity and feel of manual steering. Properly set up, it's completely workable.

Having said that, I did choose to go with PS on my Mk4 build. Not done yet so can't directly compare. I will enjoy the reduced effort at real low speeds, and interested to see just how much of a difference the increased caster will make. But don't let all the PS talk make you think manual isn't an acceptable option.

[rich grsc]

Everyone one is talking 3.0; 2.5; 2.25 racks, that is the number of turns, lock to lock. That does not necessarily have anything to do with the ratio of the rack. You can make a 3.0 rack into a 2.5, or even a 2.25 just by adding rack limiters.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Depends on your camber...I went with power steering as I went from 3 degrees to 8 degrees camber...

You're confusing caster and camber. You would have gone to 8 degrees caster.

Jeff

[Walt]

Thanks for the info. I was planning on manual so will head on in that direction.

[skullandbones]

Everyone one is talking 3.0; 2.5; 2.25 racks, that is the number of turns, lock to lock. That does not necessarily have anything to do with the ratio of the rack. You can make a 3.0 rack into a 2.5, or even a 2.25 just by adding rack limiters.

If you're comparing the racks like apples to apples, I think since they travel approximately the same distance lock to lock, it is a way of denoting ratio as the same amount of turn of the steering wheel would move the rack more for a 2.25 than a 3.0. I know that mine is too quick as is and others report that the 3.0 is better for street use. I'm not used to getting as much response from the small movements I have in my setup with a 2.5 rack.

WEK