bleeding brakes

[jackboeker83]

I am having problems bleeding my brakes. I know the general idea of bleeding brakes and looked on youtube but I cant figure out what I am doing wrong or how to trouble shoot them. I have the wilwood disc brakes all the way around and did the normal pumping with my foot but they never firmed up (yes I have fluid in the reservoir). I also tried my vacuum pump that I have and still nothing. I have a Jamar brake fluid reservoir so the front and back breaks have a different reservoir (pics below). I tried the pump on the front brakes and nothing is working. can anyone give me some advice on how to trouble shoot this.

I also bought the wilwood remote brake bias and have no idea how to install it. I don't even know how the concept works just figured it would make them easy to adjust. Hopefully someone can drop some knowledge on me.

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[DARKPT]

I don't have dual masters, but I did read where the balance bar can cause you problems when doing initial bleeding. The bar prevents one or the other piston from actually going all the way down. Might search for that here or on FFCARS for more info...

Dan

[edwardb]

Normal process for brake bleeding is to "bench bleed" the master cylinders first. Sounds like maybe you didn't do this? Once the MC is installed on the car, the easiest way to do this is to make a small hose or piece of brake line that goes from the outlet back into the reservoir. (Obviously you have to temporarily disconnect the "real" outlet.) With the hose immersed in the fluid in the reservoir, pump the brake pedal until there aren't any bubbles. Then disconnect the temporary line and reconnect the real one. I'm also really not sure about the two MC system. Haven't done that before. I'm assuming you would need to bench bleed both at the same time?

Once bench bled, then you go the farthest wheel (typically PS rear), bleed that one using the bleeders, then the next closest, and so on. I personally really like the CNC reservoirs with the pressure caps. With just 4-5 PSI in the reservoir, you only have to crack open the bleeders and let it run until no more bubbles. No pumping required. If you're doing the usual pedal pump, some guys swear by the speed bleeders, but I haven't used them. Also haven't used the vacuum method. One other point. I seem to recall the FFR supplied Wilwood back brakes don't have the bleeder on the top. You actually have to remove the caliper and point the bleeder up to bleed them.

[Bob Cowan]

I never bench bleed the MC on the bench. Because I know I'll spill brake fluid everywhere. Once I get the MC installed and everything is hooked up correctly, then it's time to fill and bleed the system.

The initial bleeding of the MC is exactly like Edward said above. Bleed them both at the same time.

With dual MC's and Wilwood calipers, it can get a little involved and time consuming to bleed the system. Russell Speed Bleeders really make this job a lot easier. The real trick is that because of the balance bar, you have to bleed both front and rear at the same time.

Pump up the brake pedal a few times until it's firm. If you're doing this alone, use a block of wood wedged between the seat and the brake pedal to hold pressure. Then open bleeder to let the air/fluid out. Close the bleeder, and repeat until you only get fluid, no air bubbles. If you have help, just have them pump the brakes up and hold the pedal down.

The Wilwood calipers have two bleeder screws each. I like to do the outside ones first, then the inside. Right side first, then left side.

If you have speed bleeders, it's really easy. Connect the drain hose to the front and rear outside bleeders, and open the bleeder 1/4 turn. Pump the pedal about 10-12 times. Close the bleeder, and move the hose to the inside bleeder. Open the bleeder 1/4 turn. Refill the master cylinders (very important step), and repeat. I can bleed all four corners in about 30 minutes.

[LuckyWinner]

I don't have dual masters, but I did read where the balance bar can cause you problems when doing initial bleeding. The bar prevents one or the other piston from actually going all the way down. Might search for that here or on FFCARS for more info...

Dan

That's the same problem I had. Adjusted the bar and found a big air pocket.

[CraigS]

One thing you might try as the initial step is gravity bleeding. I put a pan under each caliper, open the bleeders and let them drip. You may want to put a piece of hose on each so it drips from that rather than running down all over the caliper. Let them bleed long enough to require filling each reservoir at least twice. This avoids the problem mentioned above w/ the balance bar restricting pedal travel. Many times this will get the system at least partially filled and bled so you actually get some resistance at the pedal. BOB said
"Pump up the brake pedal a few times until it's firm. If you're doing this alone, use a block of wood wedged between the seat and the brake pedal to hold pressure. Then open bleeder to let the air/fluid out. Close the bleeder, and repeat until you only get fluid, no air bubbles. If you have help, just have them pump the brakes up and hold the pedal down."
This can be key. There are some procedures where you let the pedal up and then close the bleeder. The trouble w/ that is you can often suck air into the system around the threads on the bleeder screw. you may notice those screws usually are not a very tight thread fit. W/ a helper the guy at the bleeders says 'pump it up' and the guy at the pedal pumps several times. Usually he will feel a little higher pedal w/ each pump and after 4-5 pumps he says 'holding' as he holds the pedal to the floor. that let's the bleeder guy know he can open the bleeder and let some fluid out. Don't open it forever. Close it as the fluid starts to slow down a little but don't wait for the flow to stop completely. Once the bleeder is closed again say 'pump it up' and repeat. Many times you will need to go around the car several times w/ the pedal getting a little better each time around. good luck.

[skullandbones]

I agree with Craig S. I have the Wilwood pedals/MCs. I gravity bled the whole system and used a isolator bottle to keep from re-introducing air at the calipers. My wife was nice enough to sit in the cockpit and press the pedal, pump, and release as needed. It took several attempts to get all the air out but it was just time consuming not really a hassle or difficult. If you have Wilwood calipers you may find that this will only work to the calipers and may require further action like removal of the caliper to orient it correctly for the final step.

Good luck,

WEK.