Track Capabilities

[TrackTom]

My primary interest in a GTM would be a dedicated track (road course) car, yet I'm not able to find any info/reviews on it's track worthiness, and in my 7 years of racing throughout the Southeast I've never seen one at a track event. Anybody out there track their GTM that can provided valuable feedback on cornering, braking, recommended suspension and brake configurations, etc.

Thanks...Tom

[68GT500MAN]

Do a search for Team PDG, they have probably logged more hours of track time than anyone.
Doug

[crash]

Our FFR PDG GTM racer is the first and fastest GTM to ever run in sanctioned events. You can visit our website here... www.pdg4.com.

And there are some videos on YouTube such as this one... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOBVfRzhOd8

The car is VERY track capable right out of the box. We run the stock C5 suspension and brakes...even for the 25 hour events, and only have to change pads once. We have had world famous drivers like Elliot Forbes Robinson and Davy Jones pilot the car and while everyone agrees that the brakes COULD be better, they get the job done remarkably well considering what they were originally designed for. You will want to look at different shocks, and tire choice, of course, is very important. We have fitted anti roll bars front and rear for tuning purposes.

Your biggest issue will be the roll cage main hoop design if you want to run in wheel to wheel sanctioned events. The team added a second main hoop ahead of the original and also had to add down tubes in the rear that were to angle specs for the rule books.

[kabacj]

The GTM is a track day weapon. Out of the box it's great. With some tuning and tweaks it's awesome. To make it a sanctioned race car takes some work but it's possible.

Where do you race? I might pay you a visit this season.

John

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Please forgive me in advance, but if you're looking for a dedicated track car, I would look into the SL-C. The only reason I say this is because, as others have already mentioned above, the GTM requires some fairly major modifications to be track-ready. The SL-C kit can be purchased more or less track-ready. Unless you're planning on doing 100% of the mods yourself, my guess is that it will also be cheaper in the end.

[crash]

Please forgive me in advance, but if you're looking for a dedicated track car, I would look into the SL-C. The only reason I say this is because, as others have already mentioned above, the GTM requires some fairly major modifications to be track-ready. The SL-C kit can be purchased more or less track-ready. Unless you're planning on doing 100% of the mods yourself, my guess is that it will also be cheaper in the end.

I know of three SLCs that are track cars. Two of them have undergone MAJOR changes in order to compete with our GTM. I know on paper the SLC looks to have some advantages over the GTM, but it simply isn't the case. Then there is the issue of repair parts. Expensive and not nearly as available as the GTMs C5 stuff. To each his own, but we were offered an SLC to campaign in racing events years ago and turned it down because we judged the GTM a better platform with a better community for support. The SLC would have been free to us and we pay about 75% of our own way with the GTM. That's how much of a difference we see.

[kabacj]

The SLC parts look trick. And yes it is easier to get SLC to the nasa / scca legal status. And I agree Shane if you can't weld, the SLC maybe slightly cheaper to get race ready. BUT racing means you are ready and accepting of the fact that u might total your car. This is where the GTM wins. I can get all the parts I need from many scrap yards and napa. Not saying that in the worst case scienario you could not get somebody to copy the SLC parts. It's just a headache.

Think about the corvette aftermarket. That's a huge advantage for a track day car.

If money was your only concern you would not race a GTM or SLC. Lots of cheaper ways to go. However I don't think the PDG guys have ever raced another GTM. I've never seen a GTM on the road let alone the track.

I think we do this ( and I do this) because it's origional. My car is unique as is the PDG car. Every GTM is one of a kind.

If you want cheap you have many other options based on production cars. If you want a car you can build in the garage and truly beat any production car on the track. Building your own is the way to go.

I have never driven against a SLC on the track. However at our level of racing the disparity between drivers and equipment is vast. The winning car is not the best car.

But for folks that need to campaign a race car or even a serious track day car. The GTM was my choice.

For prospective builders. Don't get a corvette or Porsche build your own car. GTM or ....SLC if you must. It's fun

John

[Presto51]

If money was your only concern you would not race a GTM or SLC. Lots of cheaper ways to go. However I don't think the PDG guys have ever raced another GTM. I've never seen a GTM on the road let alone the track.John

Hey John,

Do I sense a “throw down” offer to the “kids” in Callie? :rolleyes:

Ron

[Taz Rules]

Hey John,

Do I sense a “throw down” offer to the “kids” in Callie? :rolleyes:

Ron

I see the master poop-disturber is at work again! :p :p

[LCD Gauges]

The car is VERY track capable right out of the box. We run the stock C5 suspension and brakes... they get the job done remarkably well considering what they were originally designed for.

That's impressive! I would have thought the PDG car had upgraded suspension, and brakes. I haven't had a change to track my car yet, but it's good to know the stock stuff will suffice.
A brake upgrade is still on my wishlist, but it's more for looks (calipers). I don't think going to a 6-piston setup is worth the expense as my car would only hit the track a handful of times
throughout the season.

Even with a better rotor, and pad combo over stock would probably do the trick for the PDG car, yes?

[kabacj]

Hey John,

Do I sense a “throw down” offer to the “kids” in Callie? :rolleyes:

Ron

HA Ha! Yep I would definitely love to take a trip out to Cali to visit the PDG guys. Not so much a throw down, but more a chance to compare our mods.

Now if an SLC shows up. Then we have a throw down! Ha just kidding.

I'll get out there. Only $2000 dollars in diesel and 100 hours of driving are stopping me.

John

[crash]

That's impressive! I would have thought the PDG car had upgraded suspension, and brakes. I haven't had a change to track my car yet, but it's good to know the stock stuff will suffice.
A brake upgrade is still on my wishlist, but it's more for looks (calipers). I don't think going to a 6-piston setup is worth the expense as my car would only hit the track a handful of times
throughout the season.

Even with a better rotor, and pad combo over stock would probably do the trick for the PDG car, yes?

Get the Wilwood rotors and pads and you will be fine. They handle a TON of abuse. We tried the bigger brake package the year before last and the wear was better, but we still had to change front pads, so whether we ended up with 50% of the pads left at the end of 25 hours, or with virtually no pads left really didn't matter as we still had to change pads once even with the bigger brakes. Get a good rotor and a good pad and track days are no problem, even running the car as hard as you can.

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

HA Ha! Yep I would definitely love to take a trip out to Cali to visit the PDG guys. Not so much a throw down, but more a chance to compare our mods.

Now if an SLC shows up. Then we have a throw down! Ha just kidding.

I'll get out there. Only $2000 dollars in diesel and 100 hours of driving are stopping me.

John

hell, stop in central TX & I'll split the driving & diesel with ya.... (& I drive from central TX to the either coast in way less than 24 hours)...;)

[kabacj]

hell, stop in central TX & I'll split the driving & diesel with ya.... (& I drive from central TX to the either coast in way less than 24 hours)...;)

That sounds like a deal to me. I want to hit circuit of the Americas anyway.

John

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

That sounds like a deal to me. I want to hit circuit of the Americas anyway.

John

Circuit of America track is about a hour away from me.... so is the Texas World Speedway.... we can hit one on your way out to cali & the other on the way back... :D

[CHOTIS BILL]

I don’t know if you are only looking at closed cockpit cars or are Ok with open cockpit? Are you looking for 2 seats or is one seat Ok? If an open cockpit would work for you I would suggest looking at a Sports Racer using a bike engine. I haven’t keep up on what is available after I quite racing but I believe there are still single seaters made by Stohr and West and 2 seaters made by Radical and there were some others. The engine I was using was a GSX-R1000 and came stock with 175HP and had a 6 speed sequential gear box and the total weight was 145 pounds. The cost for an engine out of a salvage yard was around $2k and for another $6K would put out 200 HP and was good for 50 hours running between rebuilds. With this engine in an 800-900 pound car it was much quicker than a GTM or SLC and much easer on tires, brakes and used less fuel. If you want to do enduros a Sports Racer may not be the beat choice.

If you aren’t into bike engines but open cockpits are Ok then I think one great choice is the car Bob Cowan is building. The Exomotive Exocet using a stock LSx engine should be light weight, very quick, about as low cost as you can get with this performance level, with low maintenance costs and easy to work on. Depending on the type of events you want to attend the only draw back I can see it may not have the top speed on high speed tracks but that is only a guess.

Bill Lomenick

[David Hodgkins]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2445&d=1308604581

We'll be right back...

:)

[David Hodgkins]

Early on in the 818 forum, there was a very serious lack of respect, much like many other auto forums on the 'net. It was not a reflection of who we wanted to be as an online community, especially since most of us knew that a respectful community was possible based on "previous experience". So I created a post which became a stickie on that forum:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?3543-PLEASE-READ-Community-and-the-818-forum

Here is the contents of that post:



I took this from Wikipedia, which surprisingly, is quite accurate as it relates to our forum:

------------

Community:

a group of interacting people, possibly living in close proximity, and often refers to a group that shares some common values, and is attributed with social cohesion within a shared geographical location, generally in social units larger than a household. The word can also refer to the national community or international community

The word "community" is derived from the Old French communité which is derived from the Latin communitas (cum, "with/together" + munus, "gift"), a broad term for fellowship or organized society.
------------

We are a group that is dispersed thruout the world. Some of us are experts at mechanics and design, some of us are complete novices, most of us are in between. But we all have at least one thing in common: A shared interest in Factory Five and their products.

In coming up with the charter for this site, there were a few key words that drove our thinking. Community, and Respect. At TheFactoryFiveForum.com, one cannot exist without the other. We cannot act condescending toward those of us who are less experienced, at the same time, we must respect the fact that there are those here with more experience than ourselves. If the experts don't respect the newbies for their desire to learn something new, they are no better than those who lash out because they feel belittled. It's the same if you are new to the world of mechanics and design; you have to realize that your questions can be quite basic, and every once in a while someone gets tired of basic questions. However, that is not an excuse for not treating each other with MUTUAL respect. We cannnot grow as a community if MUTUAL respect isn't one of the pillars the community is based on. We have to understand that mentorship is not the same thing as patronization, and that as a community, the teachers cannot survive without the students, and vice-versa.

We must INSIST that you treat each other with respect. The 818 forum has been lacking in this since it's inception, and it MUST change. In the interest of promoting community and mutual respect, we will dole out infractions as needed going forward, and if we feel that the community is better served without certain members due to either passive aggressive or condescending attitudes, we will make the hard decisions in the interest of the community and move forward.

Thanks for reading,

TheFactoryFiveForum.com moderators



The 818 forum community is now an EXCELLENT example of what the charter of TheFactoryFiveForum is all about. Now is a good time to note that the pillars of community and respect shall be adhered to across all of TheFactoryFiveForum.com. Divergent opinions can be shared, and discussion is not limited to FFR cars only. But once again: We must INSIST that you treat each other with respect. In the interest of promoting community and mutual respect, we will dole out infractions as needed going forward, and if we feel that the community is better served without certain members due to either passive aggressive or condescending attitudes, we will make the hard decisions in the interest of the community and move forward.

And I'll add that just because you know Dave Smith personally, are a Supporting Vendor or are brand new to TheFactoryFiveForum.com, you are not exempt you from this requirement.

No infractions are being given at this time, and this thread is re-opened. You may recall that the topic was how to make the GTM track-capable...

:)

[crash]

EDIT: I guess the question posed was not deemed "respectful" so I have edited this reply to make a little more sense since the question posed has disappeared.

In regards to what has failed on the other cars, there have been a number of things fail.

The ones I know of are axles, transmissions, fuel systems, steering, and electrical. Those were the ones that caused the DNFs of other competitors at the races we were at, but there have been many more.

In reality, racing is tough, no matter how much money you spend or what the equipment is. We have all had DNFs, and the FFR PDG GTM team has had every one of those, with the exception of the steering, above listed issues in the past as well. As with any race effort, it really is more about the people who are doing it than the original car manufacturer. People like to throw stones at this model or that model, but it really comes down to who the people are and how they go about the effort that makes or breaks the racing history of one car or another. The PDG team has about a 75% rate of race completion, which is phenomenal for an amateur team.

I think we would have the same with any vehicle we raced. The thing is that most of the teams do not have the experience that we do, at this level, at this point. That is our strong point, and one of the strong points for Factory Five in that we are here in the community, have "been there, and done that" and are passing along what we have learned to the other builders of GTMs, or 818s, or whatever.

This has obviously been recognized as Team PDG has had a few offers of free cars to campaign in racing events over the years, and actually has two offers on the table right now. My opinion is that we stay primarily with the community that has stuck with us over the years, but I am not the only person that has a vote and there may be some interesting things happening in the next couple racing seasons.

[kabacj]

Just a bit of context to Crash's comments

I've done over 500 laps on the track in the GTM . Track days and even sprint races are nothing like the 25 hour. 25 hours kills pro prepared machines and yet the PDG GTM survives.

I did 500 laps on one set of tires. (Too many ) but point is the car is still easy to drive when the tires are done.

I have the same set of pads with 50% life after one year of track days. My buddy running a c5 at the same events went through 3 sets of pads and a set of rotors.

I had teething trouble with a few things but with the help of the factory five community I worked all the little issues out.

Iv driven new Porsches and corvettes on the track. The GTM will not save you like cars with computer aids. BUT it's rather satisfying to go much faster then them in a car you built in your garage.

My view.
John

[RumRunner]

As with any race effort, it really is more about the people who are doing it than the original car manufacturer. People like to throw stones at this model or that model, but it really comes down to who the people are and how they go about the effort that makes or breaks the racing history of one car or another.

I'm responding to amplify Crash's words, not to take part in the frackas.

If you have never seen the two "Truth in 24" films, documenting Audi's efforts at LeMans in 2008 and 2011, do yourself a favor and watch them. Both are free on iTunes. Both are great. And both tell the story of a magnificent team that competes, with the cars as a backdrop.

-Michael