Best harness option

[Bill Waters]

I have a 2006 donor. My 818 is an R, and will be built exclusively for track use. As I confront the factory harness, nothing could be clearer than that I won't use even a tiny fraction of it, and am disinclined to spend the time "dieting" the factory harness to end up with what I need.

I am about halfway through deconstruction on my donor, and my kit will arrive in the first or second week of January. Though the donor ECU is an excellent one, I am looking for a better overall wiring option, since I don't need the factory gauge cluster, will have minimal lighting, and any other non-engine needs are easily wired.

I think a few of you have selected alternates, such as Very Cool Parts' ECU and harness kit. Is there enough experience yet for anyone to comment on how alternate options are working out?


Thanks,

Bill

[Canadian818]

Too soon for reviews with the 818, however I'm sure Wayne's done similar work on the other FFR kits that you could check out.

[wallace18]

I have a 2006 donor. My 818 is an R, and will be built exclusively for track use. As I confront the factory harness, nothing could be clearer than that I won't use even a tiny fraction of it, and am disinclined to spend the time "dieting" the factory harness to end up with what I need.

I am about halfway through deconstruction on my donor, and my kit will arrive in the first or second week of January. Though the donor ECU is an excellent one, I am looking for a better overall wiring option, since I don't need the factory gauge cluster, will have minimal lighting, and any other non-engine needs are easily wired.

I think a few of you have selected alternates, such as Very Cool Parts' ECU and harness kit. Is there enough experience yet for anyone to comment on how alternate options are working out?


Thanks,

Bill
If you can afford it the VCP ecu and harness are so much better and easier to install than the stock one IMO. Much neater install as well.

[RM1SepEx]

I'd have to agree with that. Even when you diet the stock harness you get all kind of extra wire all over the place. It would be too easy to remove a wrong wire and have a failure to run too. You get the performance features and don't need to spend 650 or more on tuning with a Cobb, offsetting some of the cost. (though some might go open source to keep that cost down)

Note my S uses the stock wiring and ECU

[metalmaker12]

It is up to you, VCP is tired and proven along with the factory setup. The factory wire dieting is not a major tough job, it is just time consuming, but so is the whole build. Of you want to cut down on some time go VCP, but if you want to save coin go oem, either will get your car down the track. I think the body fitting, repairs and tweaking takes the longest overall.

[Rasmus]

We've linked it several times before but:

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html

has bunches of info on making wiring harness. What goes into them. What to use. Pro and Cons. Great link.

[C.Plavan]

The only thing keeping me from the VCP setup is.... We dont know much about tuning/tweaking it with aftermarket turbos, injectors, etc.
It is fairly straight forward with a Cobb.

Can someone chime in?

[Mechie3]

I think Eric has an aftermarket turbo and Wayne has a completely different engine (H6) and turbo tuned with the VCP setup. I'm sure it can do it, just need to learn the software. I can't tune myself (never learned how) so I use whatever the tuners near me are comfortable with.

If I was building a straight up racecar and had money I'd probably go the VCP route. If I went racecar route and din't have money I'd take apart the oem setup or find out what connectors are used and buy new empty connectors and wire in just the motor. I kept a dieted stock harness to keep things like lights, keyless entry/alarm, door chimes, power mirrors, etc.

[Rasmus]

The only thing keeping me from the VCP setup is.... We dont know much about tuning/tweaking it with aftermarket turbos, injectors, etc.
It is fairly straight forward with a Cobb.

Can someone chime in?

With a little time invested in reading you can use RomRaider (http://www.romraider.com/forum/).


RomRaider is a free, open source tuning suite created for viewing, logging and tuning of modern Subaru Engine Control Units. The intuitive tuning interface and powerful datalogger are modelled to be familiar to experienced professional tuners while providing all the power of expensive commercial products, without license fees.

With a wideband O2 sensor I was able to tune my 2004 WRX, daily driver, with it. I've upgraded to a larger turbo, larger injectors, faster electronic boost controller (grimmspeed), dialed in my MAF table for a custom intake that's +/- 1% accurate, removed top speed limit, increased RPM limit, defeated TGV codes, defeated EVAP codes, defeated PCV codes. And in Nevada, my car always passes the smog test.

I even changed my idle to make up for the under-drive pulleys on my alternator. Ran into issues with the alternator under-driven. Even had it kick up the idle even more for when the AC is on. Great for a Las Vegas summer.

You can even load in launch control and flat-foot-shifting programing. All in the stock ECU.

It's so good, I voluntarily sent them $60, after I was done. I should probably send them some more after I button up my 818.

[metalmaker12]

It is up to you, VCP is tried and proven along with the factory setup. The factory wire dieting is not a major tough job, it is just time consuming, but so is the whole build. Of you want to cut down on some time go VCP, but if you want to save coin go oem, either will get your car down the track. I think the body fitting, repairs and tweaking takes the longest overall.

[wallace18]

The only thing keeping me from the VCP setup is.... We dont know much about tuning/tweaking it with aftermarket turbos, injectors, etc.
It is fairly straight forward with a Cobb.

Can someone chime in?
Wayne can program it for you. The program he did for me was specific to my engine mods. It is awesome in its throttle response and power IMO.

[Erik W. Treves]

The only thing keeping me from the VCP setup is.... We dont know much about tuning/tweaking it with aftermarket turbos, injectors, etc.
It is fairly straight forward with a Cobb.

Can someone chime in?

When you say "We"...lol....who are you speaking about.... Wayne has tuned the whole spectrum of cars...regardless, tuning is pretty basic IMO if you have the tools and you know how to use them. The biggest issue, again IMO...is some try and tune without using widebands and/or load sensing dyno's. Couple that with lack of fidelity tuning hardware and you go boom... if you go with some basic rules ie. remove a 1.5* per pound of boost (conservative)....the wrx motor is pretty basic and has no magic inside it...4 valves per cylinder, 4 pistons. A simple air pump. Now, I am totally biased. 1. Because he is my best friend 2. He has tuned every car I built. (no specifics to the numbers just the order in which I put them). It's pretty straight forward with the Cobb, because they build so much conservatism in it (read not optimum tune..leaves power on the table)...to hopefully keep you from blowing up your car.

so here is a comparison for you 05 wrx...don't pay too much attention to the overall horsepower since my car makes more at almost the same PSI (15psi vs 16psi) since we are 2WD and I have bigger injectors and bigger turbo..but look at the shape of the power delivery...pretty similar....

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24603&d=1387837275

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24615&d=1387837909

in the end, I think it is a matter of personal choice and how much time YOU want to spend on the wiring....I was in a rush...so my choice was clear.

[Bill Waters]

Thanks, guys; I appreciate everyone's perspectives. I guess an (arguably) ideal setup would be having the OEM engine harness connected to the OEM ECU and then interfacing with a more straightforward fuse block and general wiring harness. Though I'm sure it will be later, it's not clear to me at present how best to pull that off. Also, in the 2006, there is the issue of the anti-theft lockout device which requires the key to be encoded with the ECU.

In looking at some builds so far (including the ones at FFR), folks have endured many concessions to the OEM electrics, including retaining the original steering column electrics, as well as the factory gauge cluster (I.e., putting a Traqmate or similar racing gauge in front of the OEM cluster), etc. just to ensure things will work. This is an added degree of unnecessary complexity and weight I'm looking to avoid. These are some of the factors which motivate me to look at other options. The OEM ECUs of these cars are excellent, which is only reason I haven't already ordered a VCP setup.

But I'm sensing that a call to a certain fellow in nearby Alabama is in my future......

Bill

[Xusia]

Given yours is an R for track use only, go with the VCP setup. It will work fine, support the stuff you need, and be way easier.

[Bill Waters]

Thanks, Xusia, everyone; I just spoke with Wayne. I'll be sending him the harness connectors, lead-in wires, etc. Soon so he can configure my system.

Merry Christmas to all you guys.

Bill

[metalmaker12]

When you say "We"...lol....who are you speaking about.... Wayne has tuned the whole spectrum of cars...regardless, tuning is pretty basic IMO if you have the tools and you know how to use them. The biggest issue, again IMO...is some try and tune without using widebands and/or load sensing dyno's. Couple that with lack of fidelity tuning hardware and you go boom... if you go with some basic rules ie. remove a 1.5* per pound of boost (conservative)....the wrx motor is pretty basic and has no magic inside it...4 valves per cylinder, 4 pistons. A simple air pump. Now, I am totally biased. 1. Because he is my best friend 2. He has tuned every car I built. (no specifics to the numbers just the order in which I put them). It's pretty straight forward with the Cobb, because they build so much conservatism in it (read not optimum tune..leaves power on the table)...to hopefully keep you from blowing up your car.

so here is a comparison for you 05 wrx...don't pay too much attention to the overall horsepower since my car makes more at almost the same PSI (15psi vs 16psi) since we are 2WD and I have bigger injectors and bigger turbo..but look at the shape of the power delivery...pretty similar....

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24603&d=1387837275

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24615&d=1387837909

in the end, I think it is a matter of personal choice and how much time YOU want to spend on the wiring....I was in a rush...so my choice was clear.

From building and tuning subarus and other cars Cobb is for the non tuner crowd to get a little more power unless you pro- tune with Cobb. open source tuning is always my choice. Wayne is a tuner and his setups will work much better than a off the self Cobb. With his basic tune you will be happy and if you get to a dyno you will really fine tune it. Btw I am not trying to sell it, and not trying to say Erik is either. I am using a stock harness and an opensource tune on a jdm ecu, but his stuff is in my radar and I will try it down the road

[Bill Waters]

Thanks, MM12; will let you guys know how Wayne's setup works on an 818R. My currently planned engine/tranny is as follows:
Cosworth long block
Stock, reworked heads
Stage 2 cams
High performance valve springs
Hi performance up pipe, down pipe and headers
Quaife or similar gears and LSD
Wayne's ECU/harness rig
Dyno tune to about 350 reliable WHP


Thanks for your input.

Bill

[metalmaker12]

That is easy with that stuff, you can get a stock Sti there with good longevity. The long block would be the whole engine. Also When you say stage two cams, what lift and duration is more what I am interested in. Sounds like your planning on building a serious engine.

[Bill Waters]

I misspoke: Cosworth short block with my 2006 heads milled, new valve guides, springs, cams, etc. (the Cosworth heads add about $7500 to the price of the short block). The cams have the same specs as those in the Cosworth long block setup, but I don't have specs handy.

I am looking for mid-range WHP (relative to what is possible), but high reliability. Will post cam specs later if you or others are interested.

Bill

[C.Plavan]

Erik- What I am saying with "We"..... is that a majority of us cant drive and have Wayne tune it like "you" did on a dyno. I don't know of anyone out West that would tune with Wayne's package for 1 on 1 dyno tuning. If Wayne has someone he could recommend (Near Fresno for me) that would be great.

[Erik W. Treves]

Chad...I was just "trying" to be funny...any ways...Wayne's tune would be pretty close out of the gate, but 1 on 1 tuning is the best COBB or stand alone. I know he has flown out to CA to do tuning before :D Anyway good luck on what you decide.

[Canadian818]

You could also datalog, and send him the logs so he can tweak your tune via email. Most guys I know up here get etunes that way and are fine, just not enough demand and too short a season here to develop tuning shops IMO.

Now if only Wayne would find the time to finish his car and post a video...so I can pull the plug and order my engine :)

[GUNS]

I'm seriously debating an ISIS system. Is the 3 cell necessary, or can we get away with the 2 cell in the 818?

[Slatt]

I'm seriously debating an ISIS system. Is the 3 cell necessary, or can we get away with the 2 cell in the 818?

I recently started looking at the ISIS option myself. I want to save weight and this product will do that. It also goes a long way towards removing the need to source an OEM wiring harness. Did you notice they have a package option specifically for the FFR GTM? That's a 3-cell package. The GTM layout can't be considered much different from the 818.

I've not made a decision yet myself. One thing for sure is that ISIS stuff is expensive. Lessee... 3-cell means one input module and 2 output modules.

Front Outputs:
Fan single
Fan double
Turn light left
Turn light right
Running lights
Beam low
Beam high
Horn single
Horn double (ya, I'm going above and beyond normal here)
Wiper slow
Wiper fast

That's 11

Rear Outputs:
Turn light left
Turn light right
Running lights
Reverse lights
Brake lights

That's 5

That's a total of 16, easily done with 2 cells and some spare outputs leftover. But with 2 cells you'd still be running wires back to some central location which means you've gone to all this trouble without saving as much wiring and labor as you could. With 3 cells you can locate your 2 output modules close to each end of the car where they are actually used.

The next option to consider is whether you want to hack enough wires to put your dash lights under ISIS control rather than use the OEM harness for that. That would suggest an added module under the dash (they have an output module specifically for dash lights).

I guess the take-away point here is that if you go with a 2-cell you still have to run all wires to a central location, which negates some of the weight / convenience virtues of ISIS.

I assume the best place for the Master / Input module is under the dash or inside the rear firewall (firewall is where the ECU would also go?).

They don't list weights for their various modules, but they are physically a bit large.

Also, you/we might want to put cruise control inputs / outputs on ISIS.

I'm a long way from making my mind up on this system. That's a lot of loot to save weight but I think it might make sense, maybe, sort of....

[flynntuna]

I wonder if ISIS does group buys?

[GUNS]

Slatt,

Yea I thought about the fact that with a 2 cell your wires would be considerably longer, but if you mount the powercell in the middle of the car, the wires from the front and back still don't have that far to go...the car is pretty small. I'm not sure it's worth the extra $$$ to save a few feet of wires, especially since it won't be that many. Either way, it would be a huge improvement over the stock harness.

[metalmaker12]

I misspoke: Cosworth short block with my 2006 heads milled, new valve guides, springs, cams, etc. (the Cosworth heads add about $7500 to the price of the short block). The cams have the same specs as those in the Cosworth long block setup, but I don't have specs handy.

I am looking for mid-range WHP (relative to what is possible), but high reliability. Will post cam specs later if you or others are interested.

Bill

Nice idea, yeah there heads are expensive