Pirate's MK4 build

[Pirate]

Well after the car sitting in my garage a couple of weeks after it arrived (Sunday after Thanksgiving) and finishing build school last weekend I finally started breaking down the car yesterday and building today. I didn't get to far on the build just put the lower control arms on but hey, it's started. Anyway I am finding that the manual is lacking in certain areas, like instruction for those if us who have no idea what we are doing and one of the wrench sizes it said I needed to put on the grease fitting was wrong. Fortunately I'm purdy smart and figured it out all by myself. I do have a couple of questions already, when do you need to use thread locker? Only when it says? Second I torqued the lower control arms to the recommended ft/lbs but one is less tight than the other. Both move freely but one falls a little bit faster than the other when I pull it up and let it go. Is that ok? Another question, When did yall drill the holes for the panels? I am doing it first, this that way I can send them to powder coat if I choose too. Still undecided on that one.

Chris

[carlewms]

Pirate,

Although I am a mechanical engineer by training it has been a long time since I had built anything like a car. So far I have found that, in addition to the manual, I am using Brian Smith's Book How to Build a Cobra an excellent additional resource.

The another resource is searching the forums. One technique is to use the format "www.thefactoryfiveforum.com: lower control arms" which will return all the mentions of "lower control arms" on this forum. An alternative is to search for build sites on the forums.

With respect to your particular questions:

1. Use of Thread Locker: I basically followed the manual on this. Locktite puts out an excellent guide about using their product which you can download from the web:

http://www.henkelna.com/us/content_data/168592_LT4985_Threadlocking_Guide.pdf;

2. Torque Specifications: If you are correctly torquing to the same specification and you have the respective washers, shims, spacers in their correct spots, the fact that one moves easier than the other is not that big of deal if you have not used a torque wrench a lot be sure it is properly set up and calibrated.

3. Drilling Panels: Searching the sites you will find folks doing it both ways. I took photos of all the panels, then removed them, then fitted them up and drilled them as I went along. In my case, I am not powdercoating the panels, so getting them all done at the same time was not that important.

Carl

[MPTech]

If you haven't bought them yet, get yourself some Cleco's and a tool. (the more the better, you'll use them all!) :cool:
Be careful to clean your aluminum panels well, I've heard some markers can show thru and have seen yellow (junkyard) markers thru silver powdercoat.

Lessons Learned:
I drilled and cleco'd, then temp screwed all of my panels together, all the way thru go-kart and driving in gel-coat. At the end of the driving season I garaged my car and I'm currently pulling all of the panels back off, finishing them (brushed aluminum & Shark-Hide), and re-assembling all aluminum (silicon, riveting, and damplifier on everything). This was convenient and allowed me to drive it this summer, but re-assembly with engine in and everything installed is a real pain and I would not recommend it. Silicon and rivet the footboxes before installing the motor, it will be much easier.

[kevin12973]

Dont torque anything this early in the build. Only hand tight for now because for one reason or another those components will be on and off several times and some hardware should not be re-torqued like those crimped nuts. Did you trim off 1/8" off the rear bolt of the lower control arm so it doesnt bottom against the frame upright?

[Pirate]

No I didn't trim any off the bolt, what do you mean bottom against the frame upright? It doesn't look like it will hit anything. Also what color Loctite did yall use? I ordered Brian's book. It's looking like there is a lot of good info out there that should be in the manual but isn't.

Thanks,

Chris

[Boz1911]

On my 33 about the only thing that hasn't been out more than once is the engine and trans. I would torque everything when you know for sure it's the final time it will be installed. Anything I do now that's "for good" gets blue Loctite, lock nuts, or lock washers.

[VdubJoe]

Chris,
I carry over from building off-road cars and a few bikes. Everything gets blue Loctite. Lockwashers , nylocks or not. Also I would wait a little till you've got all the suspension mocked and checked. I had to remove a couple of things a few times.
I also used the breeze sleeves in the lower control arms. Much better they have a serrated end and the length is right on. Also had to modify the spacer to fill the gap in the rear one to. It's all fun.

Joe

[VdubJoe]

Chris ,
You might want to set up with Photobucket or Flicker and you can have your pic's show up easily in the thread.

Joe

[bil1024]

FFR also has a build video on their website

[2bking]

X2 on torqueing as you build. Otherwise, you will forget to tighten something.

The rules we used in industry on hardware was:
1. Do not get Loctite on any plastic (some plastics will craze and break).
2. Fasteners torqued to yield do not require a locking device.
3. Fasteners with locking nuts or other locking devices do not require Loctite. Locking nuts can be reused until the locking torqued is reduced to half of original value. No one knows what half the value is so they always get replaced.
4. If you use Loctite or some other locking device, omit the lock washer.
5. If the bolt head or nut can turn independently as a part is rotated, a mechanical locking device (think cotter pin) is needed.

From observation on my MK4, the FFR manual follows these rules.

[skullandbones]

X2 on torqueing as you build. Otherwise, you will forget to tighten something.

The rules we used in industry on hardware was:
1. Do not get Loctite on any plastic (some plastics will craze and break).
2. Fasteners torqued to yield do not require a locking device.
3. Fasteners with locking nuts or other locking devices do not require Loctite. Locking nuts can be reused until the locking torqued is reduced to half of original value. No one knows what half the value is so they always get replaced.
4. If you use Loctite or some other locking device, omit the lock washer.
5. If the bolt head or nut can turn independently as a part is rotated, a mechanical locking device (think cotter pin) is needed.

From observation on my MK4, the FFR manual follows these rules.

I would add something to this good advice. Before driving at speed, do a complete front to back check on fasteners especially if there is significant time lapses or breaks in the work flow. It only takes a few minutes but it can insure that you haven't forgotten to tighten a critical bolt or cotter pin. Sometimes you do the initial tightening and then have to undo to align or something of that nature and a break in your route can cause a forgetful moment. I found two loose bolts on my trans mount and a missed cotter pin on a castle nut by such an inspection. JMO, WEK.

[Pirate]

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to take my time and make sure everything is done right and nice and tight. I'm stalled right now on the build I broke my 1/8 drill bit and my two sided ones haven't shown up yet. Hopefully they will show up today. How many washer spacers did yall average on the lower control arms? I put one spacer on both rear arms, there was still just a little space left but not enough to fit another washer. Should I have tried to shove that other washer in? When I tightened up the nuts the space disappeared.

Because I am pretty much computer illiterate can someone pm me how to post pictures using flicker? I'd like to post a picture of the lower control arm.

Thanks

Chris

[VdubJoe]

Chris ,
If your talking the front lower rear arm the sleeve should touch the ears. So they should not move any. Then the spacer just fills the gap between the bushing and the ear over the sleeve . That' why I went with the Breeze serrated ones as the ones with my kit were short.
That way there is no binding. Mark the nuts with a marker as you final tighten anything it gives a good visual reminder it' done.

Joe

[Boz1911]

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to take my time and make sure everything is done right and nice and tight. I'm stalled right now on the build I broke my 1/8 drill bit and my two sided ones haven't shown up yet. Hopefully they will show up today. How many washer spacers did yall average on the lower control arms? I put one spacer on both rear arms, there was still just a little space left but not enough to fit another washer. Should I have tried to shove that other washer in? When I tightened up the nuts the space disappeared.

Because I am pretty much computer illiterate can someone pm me how to post pictures using flicker? I'd like to post a picture of the lower control arm.

Thanks



Chris

You can own or buy too many drill bits............

[FormulaGod]

I too noticed that the grease fitting was a different size. 6mm I think. I also noticed that one side is easier (wider) than the other when installing the LCA's. The manual is pretty bad. It even shows directions for putting the uppers on, and the pics show the shocks on, but hasn't even gotten to that point yet in the manual. There is another bolt size that's off, too.

[Pirate]

We'll after over two months of not being able to work on the car with work I have finally found some time to work on the car. I have the front end suspension done with no problems. I am now working on putting on the Wilwood brakes and have a question on the caliper brackets and using the red locktite on the 2 bolts that hold each bracket on and all the bolts that hold the hat on the roter. I just want to make sure I won't have any regrets after doing this step because a lot of heat will have to be applied to loosen those bolts once it's done. Anyone that has done this before with any tips or recommendations I would appreciate it.

Chris

[CraigS]

We need pics. I like to use my cell phone to take them. Then I move them to my PC. Then I upload to Photobucket which is a free service I have used for at least 5 years. Then I can put them in my post here. It took a while to get all that figured out but, like most other things, it gets easy w/ practice. I can now take a pic and have it here in about 3 minutes. Maybe you should try it w/ a pic of your current question. Give it a shot and ask us for help as you have problems. We will get you to be a pro. This is a huge assist to us to be able to offer help when you have a question.