Vinyl wraps (body panels but also inside)

[Frank818]

Extracted from post #35 of my build thread (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12179-Frank818-1993-VW-VR6-Turbo-donor-Build-Thread), I am gathering some info on different vinyl wraps for the body. It can also work for the interior for whoever would want that.

This thread is not intended to compare wraps vs paint vs FFR gel coat vs anything else you can think of. It's intended solely to compare different vinyl wrap brands.

I found a place where they hold many brands, sizes, colors and everything you need to wrap your car.

http://www.metrorestyling.com/Default.asp

Different brands I see everywhere on the web are Alsa, Arlon, Oracal, 3M and Avery.

www.alsacorp.com has many choices. I love the chrome blue in there. Here's a nice Lambo in that (actually I think it's another brand, but it's damn close).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypLUq6h718o
http://alsacorp.com/strechchrome/sof...ilm/index.html

But, it's really expensive!! About 2.8k bucks for the 818 if using Alsa Corp, assuming 35ft length roll (by 5ft). Still, that is less than very good paint.

The others are:

Avery Graphics http://graphics.averydennison.com/en...cle-wraps.html
3M Scotchprint Wrap Film http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...ts/Series1080/
Oracal http://www.orafol.com/gp/americas/en...-wrapping-cast
Arlon http://www.arlon.com/Utilities-Product-ProductListing?SelVal=31447&SelLevel=0

Kalstar has become a dealer of http://www.ultimatepremiumplus.com/, one model of Arlon.
http://www.arlon.com/Utilities-Produ...869&SelLevel=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8tyMWrwnpk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi_bcw2GXp0

These 4 are in the range of 400 bucks for 5ftx35ft rolls (compact car). I have asked for a roadster if I can shed off 5ft and save 60-80 bucks, no answer yet.

One info worries me a little bit though, they all say the wraps last from 3 to 12 years (depends on brand, color, horizontal vs vertical installation, etc.). So what, after 5 years I have to remove the wrap, buy a new roll and restart the installation? Some say it's easily removable up to 5 years, then what after 5 years it's going to leave stuff on the panels or will be very hard to remove? I failed to find answers yet on that.

The characteristics of all these products seem to be fairly the same, which means to me that this market looks well blended with similar offers. So the price/rebates or color will most probably tell me which one I will choose.

[Canadian818]

Thanks for putting all that in one place frank. I'm 100% going to wrap my 818, for a number of reasons. I can do it myself with a helping hand, it's cheap! It's fairly durable and easy to maintain. And if I want to change colors, it's $500, pizza/beer, and a long weekend. No idea what color yet, defiantly flat/satin, dark grey or black probably, however I occasionally crave a bright color like green/orange/blue. I can't believe we haven't seen this car in black yet!

[Frank818]

If you find a good place in Canada, let me know. The one I found, N-Motion, it's like twice the price from the States or eBay.

Yes quite durable, shouldn't be any chips and scratches on that.

[Frank818]

Just found another one, located in Baltimore.

www.teckwrap.com (also selling on eBay store)

They are half the price of the others. Have same characteristics. I saw videos and reviews and people are very happy, some even mentioned it lasted better than 3M.

Since it's only $200 for more than the whole car, I'll take a try!

They have 2D, 3D and 4D carbon fiber look as well.

[Oppenheimer]

I would think limited use of CF look wrap, mixed with another color, could look pretty nice. Witness the Green painted CF 818 that went to SEMA. That was real CF of course, but for $200 wrap, you could imitate much of that look (from several feet away). Also that red car that went to SEMA, that had black black humps that could be imitated with CF look wrap.

[Frank818]

Yes I will be wrapping both humps in 4D CF. And maybe the rear spoiler.

I am giving those Maryland guys a try!

[Kalstar]

I became a Wrap dealer earlier this year as I plan to wrap my car. I plan to use metal-flake black with matte black for stripes. Carbon fiber wrap for accents. The product I am using is not cheap. The dealer cost for a roll enough to do an 818 is about $500.00, with the stripes and carbon it will be about $650.00 total. I will be painting the inside of the body with black primer then black rattle can.

I used the CF wrap on my GTM on the splitter and rocker extensions. Because they were low, no one can tell if it is real CF or wrap.

[Frank818]

The inside of the body? You mean inside the body panels?

[Xusia]

Kalstar, what brand wrap are you a dealer for again?

[GUNS]

How difficult is I to install these wraps? I can picture myself cussing at this stuff trying to get it to line up right, perfectly smooth, etc.

[RM1SepEx]

YouTube... :-) I have some gloss vinyl samples coming...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLsmPbPyE00 as an example

[Frank818]

Kalstar, what brand wrap are you a dealer for again?

Kalstar has become a dealer of http://www.ultimatepremiumplus.com/, one model of Arlon.
http://www.arlon.com/Utilities-Produ...869&SelLevel=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8tyMWrwnpk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi_bcw2GXp0

[Frank818]

How difficult is I to install these wraps? I can picture myself cussing at this stuff trying to get it to line up right, perfectly smooth, etc.

You need a squeegee and a heat gun. Looks a lot easier when there are multiple people helping. Alone I think you might need to have some experience before you do it without trashing some sheets.

Most people find it somewhat easy, a few complicated. Some people say it takes from 10h to 20h, depending on the car, curves, angled spots, etc.

[tirod]

It should go without saying that the body panel itself should be blemish free. Like paint, wrap is going to telegraph exactly what it's stuck to.

It's becoming mainstream: https://www.google.com/search?q=auto+vinyl+wraps&espv=210&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=9FWwUpb_KuXf2AXMh4C4CQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1137&bih=571&dpr=0.9

I'm going to project that we will see some amazing artwork and interpretations that allow a lot of new stuff. But - like the good old days of airbrush, lacing, and flock, it's gonna go too far. There will be horrors.

The commercials of a new car shedding it's color like a snake skin are really satire before it's time.

[Frank818]

Absolutely. So I foresee some fiberglass work to polish the scratches and chips. If it's true what one said about FFR piling up the panels on the walls or something and don't take perfect care of the panels, then more small body work would be required. But who knows, maybe I'll get smooth ones, maybe not. I am ready for that.

[N2MINI]

The teckwrap web site is the pits. Everything other then the carbonfiber links takes me to a page saying nothing matches my selection.
The CF specs are different on every page/descripition I see on there.. One page says duribility is 1-2 years, another says 2-3 etc... This vinyl may get the job done but by far not the best out there... As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for, buyer beware..

[Xusia]

I like what I've seen about the Arlon wraps, specifically the Ultimate Premium Plus. I'm going to wait until I see the condition of the body panels before deciding exactly what I'm going to do.

[Frank818]

The teckwrap web site is the pits. Everything other then the carbonfiber links takes me to a page saying nothing matches my selection.

Interesting, it doesn't for me, I was able to view many colors and types.

[Frank818]

The CF specs are different on every page/descripition I see on there.. One page says duribility is 1-2 years, another says 2-3 etc... This vinyl may get the job done but by far not the best out there... As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for, buyer beware..

I am not expecting a kick a s s out of it, I admit. But since this is the first time I will wrap and I've seen many videos and comments of people trashing some wrap or not making good results cuz they weren't experienced well enough, I decided $200 for testing this technology and making mistakes is easier to digest than $400, $800 or $1500 wraps.

So if it works, then nice I made a great deal. If it doesn't, then no worries for me, I gained experience, learned teckwrap is not good, and will try a higher end higher price tag wrap the next time. Less chances I screw up on installation by that time. So for $200 I felt I was a winner either way. :)


P.S.: Anyway we are all winners here, cuz we all own an 818. :D lolll Little sales pitch on behalf of FFR. :)

[Racebrewer]

I think that we'll have an advantage in wrapping the 818. Unlike the cars in the videos, the 818 will be in pieces. A panel at a time up on a workbench will be a lot easier than the whole car wrapping in the vids.

The 3m videos by "Cookie" are very good.

[narkosys]

I'm going to project that we will see some amazing artwork and interpretations that allow a lot of new stuff. But - like the good old days of airbrush, lacing, and flock, it's gonna go too far. There will be horrors.

Too late!

24310

[nkw8181]

My eyes! my eyes! Lol

[Frank818]

Ugh! Get that off this thread! lolllllllll

[flynntuna]

Ohhhh behave! :p

[Frank818]

Ohhhh behave! :p

I can't. I mean, just look at it! lollll

24310

lolll

Question, is a guy or a girl driving this? :p

[narkosys]

apparently it's bieber's, so i would say both :P

[flynntuna]

I can't. I mean, just look at it! lollll

24310

lolll

Question, is a guy or a girl driving this? :p


Can't tell

[Frank818]

apparently it's bieber's, so i would say both :p

hahahhahahhahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frank818]

Canadian818, N-Motion quoted me $CAD459 for a 5ftx30ft, which isn't that bad. If you get from USA, including taxes and higher shipping costs, I don't think it'll be much cheaper than N-Motion. And probably not much shipping for you as they are in Burnaby, BC. :)

[Kalstar]

apparently it's bieber's, so i would say both :P

Awesome ^

Sorry for the delay, work had me crazy, which is odd for this time of the year. Anyway......

Thax Frank for filling in for my absents and posting the info. Ultimate Premium is right up there with 3m. They also have the air-release so removing bubbles are a snap. I have been practicing and was able to wrap my race helmet with one piece of CF wrap. Little heat and time it it came out great. I used their dry weave and it looks fantastic. I have samples of 3m from SEMA and side by side they look like the same material. I do like the color saturation of the metal flake of the Ultimate Premium better then the 3m.

Over all I believe the 818 to be a great platform for wrap. As Racebrewer said the small pieces that yhe 818 breaks down to and the fact the parts can be completely removed (unlike OEM roofs and such) the wrap should be easier then other mediums. Oh and yes the surface has to be near perfect or you will see the imperfections.

[Canadian818]

Canadian818, N-Motion quoted me $CAD459 for a 5ftx30ft, which isn't that bad. If you get from USA, including taxes and higher shipping costs, I don't think it'll be much cheaper than N-Motion. And probably not much shipping for you as they are in Burnaby, BC. :)

Thanks frank, but I have a local source for 3m wrap.

[Frank818]

Just so everyone know, after the search I did, I decided to go with cheaper Teckwrap product for testing purposes, mainly. But otherwise, I was one click away to send Kalstar a PM and order the Arlon Ultimate Premium Plus in Aluminum Blue. That was my first choice after different reviews I've seen and for the color I was looking for. so we got a good dealer on this forum. :)

[Kalstar]

Just so everyone know, after the search I did, I decided to go with cheaper Teckwrap product for testing purposes, mainly. But otherwise, I was one click away to send Kalstar a PM and order the Arlon Ultimate Premium Plus in Aluminum Blue. That was my first choice after different reviews I've seen and for the color I was looking for. so we got a good dealer on this forum. :)

I look forward to seeing how you like the wrap.

For the record, I am not a sponsor as I intend to pass along my pricing to anyone that wants wrap. I wanted to become a dealer because there were very few U.P. dealers in the US and I did not want to pay a gross up charge.

I am a Real Estate Broker by trade, any 818 related stuff or cool parts I find for our cars I pass along at cost. I am not looking for mark-ups or to create a business out of my research. Happy to help the brotherhood along.

Jim

[Xusia]

^And THAT, puts you a cut above...

[Aloha818]

I purchased a couple different colors of 3M wrap (2' x 5') in gloss metallic, one silver, one grey, to get a feel for wrapping. I have no previous experience with vinyl.

My observations;

1) 2-3-4 people is a must on larger pieces
2) With some body prep on the edges of the panels and fill any nicks, you could get a nice look from 5' away
3) For a quality look, best vinyl has to offer, full prep, priming, block sanding, same as if you were to paint, required.
4) No matter how far you take the prep, vinyl will not look like paint and lacks depth.
5) You need the panel to be solidly fixed to pull/stretch the vinyl, I would not plan on wrapping the panels off the car. In some videos I saw they would wrap the panel on the car, pull the panel, and then return the wrap around the edges.
6) If you are going for a matte finish, vinyl is probably a good way to go
7) I watched several videos before my test piece. This was very helpful. I would plan on some extra material and practice in a couple of the harder sections (rear quarter by vent as an example) to get a feel for stretching/shrinking the vinyl before you ruin a large sheet. I was practicing with no help, but just one wrong little pull and the whole sheet is trash. With the 3M vinyl anyway, I had no problem with air bubbles. To stretch the vinyl in dips or humps is easy with a little heat, the job is how to plan ahead to keep from having to "shrink" it.
8) With some of the body shapes on the 818 I do not think you will be able to eliminate any seams, namely wrapping into the door jambs.
9) For about the same cost of the vinyl material you can purchase quality paint. Especially if you ruin a sheet or two trying to learn how to install vinyl.
10) The material/time/labor/cost required to prep for a quality finish, whether vinyl or paint, would be about the same.
11) Vinyl does not hide any imperfections in the body panels. If you can see it in the bare body, you will see it in the vinyl.


My opinion is that if you want the matte look, think you can install vinyl but not spray paint, your building a R and need to advertise/easily change colors, etc, vinyl is the way to go. If you would be paying someone to do the work, either vinyl or paint, the actual finish work cost will be very similar. As I would assume that a quality wrap shop would insist on a proper body prep just the same as a quality paint shop.

I went into this test with the confidence that I would be wrapping my 818 and couldn't decide between grey and silver. I have painted 4 cars (2 I still have) and I wanted to avoid all the sanding!

[FFR-ADV]

Has anyone on the forum tried this "paint"? I just spotted this and though not vinyl it looks interesting.

http://www.alsacorp.com/metallic_paint_wraps/metallic_paint_wraps.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwsZIBNFVbk

They claim it can be peeled like "plasti-dip" for future color changes, yet it looks like a more finish paint like result is possible.

24551 24552

If the metallic blue looks as nice as the metallic green on this motorcycle....

Cheers!

[FFR-ADV]

Their Chrome Vinyl Wrap looks interesting as well

http://alsacorp.com/strechchrome/index.html

24553 24554

Any experience with these products??

Cheers!

[Canadian818]

Has anyone on the forum tried this "paint"? I just spotted this and though not vinyl it looks interesting.

http://www.alsacorp.com/metallic_paint_wraps/metallic_paint_wraps.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwsZIBNFVbk

They claim it can be peeled like "plasti-dip" for future color changes, yet it looks like a more finish paint like result is possible.

24551 24552

If the metallic blue looks as nice as the metallic green on this motorcycle....

Cheers!

Very interesting stuff. If it provides a smooth satin finish versus Plasti-dip's rubbery textured finish I'm sold! Going to have to check reviews.

[Frank818]

Very interesting stuff. If it provides a smooth satin finish versus Plasti-dip's rubbery textured finish I'm sold! Going to have to check reviews.

It does. On their website though. They painted wheels and other stuff with that stuff and it's all satin/suede look and feel.

Their chrome wraps are very expensive, not the time to scrap a sheet. lolll

[FFR-ADV]

The ALSA soft touch wrap looks interesting (especially for the interior perhaps instead of carpeting...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=24v3lvgvuLI

Any experience with these products?

Merry Christmas!

[Frank818]

Gotcha!

Found the exact wrap for that nice anodized chrome blue on this Lambo I mentioned in my first post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypLUq6h718o

It's called RITRAMA and I think it's Made in the USA.

http://www.ritrama-us.com/ritrama-us/index.asp


I am sure about that, cuz you can see it at 1mins28s of the video, check on the box. :)


I can't get clear prices, but I think this may help. http://www.apptape.co.uk/ecommerce/speciality-films/ultrametallic-660/ultrametallic-660-series-cast-film---1220mm.aspx

[Harley818]

Hi Frank and Canadian 818,
let me know if you are happy with your wrap....i'd like to try but my kit doesn't arrive till May 2014.
Harley (in Vancouver)

[Frank818]

my kit doesn't arrive till May 2014.

Mine is due in Oct 2014. :( Unless I am lucky with the Hot List or production ramp up.

[Doowop]

Merci for the Info Frank. I've been looking into vinyl wrap too. this helps.

Love the RC8!! had a Superduke..... KTM rules!!

[Frank818]

You're welcome, Doowop. :)

[Goldwing]

It seems the cheap wrap is a great practice tool. If it comes out good, you save a bunch. If you mess it up, or don't like the look, keep practicing on the whole car until you feel more proficient before getting some better stuff. Can't lose the way I see it. My plan is to wrap. My only experience is clear wrapping the front of my Venza, but that material was more tacky and used a slip solution you squeegee out to avoid bubbles. Similar concept with stretching to fit, but different adhesives. Blending/ hiding relief seams will be the tricky part.

[Frank818]

That is my thought as well, Goldwing.

[nkw8181]

Any updates?

[Boog]

Does anyone know how differently from paint or to what level the body must be prepared/repaired in order to be a good substrate for a exterior wrap? My guess is it would be pretty close to paint quality, but does the color need to be uniform as well? Will a patchwork of filler and gel coat colors be obvious after a wrap goes on top?

In general, I'm curious what level of imperfections would show through.

[Frank818]

In general, I'm curious what level of imperfections would show through.

I've heard that it's close to paint quality, but probably not equal to. If you have some cracks, they should show through the vinyl. I have not tested vinyl yet, I am far far far away from body work at the moment.

[flynntuna]

Generally speaking vinyl wrap, plastic dip ect. Needs the same prep as painting. The difference being that vinyl and dipping is cheaper and you can change the color of the car fairly easy once the prep is done. Personally I'm leaning towards dipping,
Mainly because it doesn't need several people to stretch like vinyl does.

[Frank818]

Hey flynn, have you tried dipping ABS plastic and aluminum? If yes, did you succeed? I totally failed on these materials.

[flynntuna]

FFR tech Tony Zullo said he's done three cars with it. Should be good.

"I have done about three cars with it and it works and holds up very ..."
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?9190-Paint-Vinyl-Discussion&p=155402&viewfull=1#post155402

[Boog]

Here's the video from the other thread. Very impressive results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jayyTUy3GTw

[Frank818]

Pretty nice, I am keeping this video as a ref.
Now try to do that with a PlastiDip spray can. lolll

[flynntuna]

Getting creative with plasti dip...

[Kalstar]

What do you think of this?

http://superiorautodesign.com/2014-porsche-911-carrera-s-full-avery-matte-blue-metallic-wrap-gloss-silver-stripe-package/#sthash.f0ZTWgnZ.sCqhhDDW.dpbs

Will this color scheme work on an 818?

[FFRSpec72]

What do you think of this?

http://superiorautodesign.com/2014-porsche-911-carrera-s-full-avery-matte-blue-metallic-wrap-gloss-silver-stripe-package/#sthash.f0ZTWgnZ.sCqhhDDW.dpbs

Will this color scheme work on an 818?

I really like it, wonder how much to do the 818?

[Frank818]

That is exactly the color I was looking for! And almost the one I got. That is Avery Matte Blue Mettalic as they say and the one I got is very close.

I can't recall how much Avery sells this, probably 1k?
What I got was less expensive and made in USA.

EDIT: http://www.metrorestyling.com/Avery-Supreme-Wrapping-Film-Matte-Brilliant-Blue-p/sw900-671-m.htm

I'd have to check how many sq-ft I bought, but if wants to know, let me know.

[Kalstar]

Frank, thx for responding. I became a distributor last year for a company the sells the wrap like I posted. Yes I would like to know how much you ordered, thx for offering.

FFRspec, I will wrap myself but the price I got from a local guy was $1000 plus material. Material will be $300-$500.

[Frank818]

Ok found it, I ordered 5'x50' for about $250. I will wrap the car myself as well.
I also ordered some CF vinyl. I believe with 50' it's enough, but I won't know until I get it done.

I was wrong with the 1k, it's actually $434 at Metro for that vinyl so yeah under $500 for that type of roll that size.

[Goldwing]

I am split between that blue, in gloss if I can find it, or similar brightness gloss metallic red. I had a turbo beetle in that blue and miss the color. I am planning on wrapping.

[Frank818]

I became a distributor last year for a company the sells the wrap like I posted. Yes I would like to know how much you ordered, thx for offering.

If I recall you have a color similar to that blue available, right?

[Frank818]

I am split between that blue, in gloss if I can find it, or similar brightness gloss metallic red. I had a turbo beetle in that blue and miss the color. I am planning on wrapping.

That gloss blue does exist.
http://www.metrorestyling.com/Arlon-Ultimate-PremiumPlus-s/92436.htm

That's Arlon, but others have it and maybe Kalstar as well.

[thall818]

Frank, I can't wait to see the results. Post pics when you can!

[FFRSpec72]

So i don't think I have the talent to do the wrap so will have to look for someone around here to do the job. Being a track car I would like to go the wrap route once I get the panels fit. I assume it would be better to fit panels and then take them all of to be wrapped instead of wrapping on the car ? I was looking for a blue close to the Guardsman Blue in a flat.

[Goldwing]

Thanks! I did see that last year, but the on-car photos of the Bentley looked more yellow than I was looking for. I was thinking more deep ocean blue than what those pics showed. But, background, lighting, phone screens offer a few steps for the color to get skewed a bit. Hmm, Kalstar, are there any dealer sample books/color guides available to purchase?

[Frank818]

I assume it would be better to fit panels and then take them all of to be wrapped instead of wrapping on the car ?

It's up to however does it. Having the panels off the car makes it easier to move and turn around the panels, sometimes accessing areas that would be harder if they were on the car. But having them on the car offers usually a better support for when you put pressure on to stick the wrap.

[Kalstar]

Here is the colors.

http://carcarstyle.com/Vinyl-Arlon.html

I ordered new samples since I misplaced the other ones.