Water proofing?

[nkw8181]

How are people planing on water proofing the interior? Basically so that all electronics work after a rain storm. This may be addressed to a degree but I haven't received my kit yet and don't recall anything in the manual I downloaded in Aug. I am building an R that I will make street legal and drive anytime it is nice. Soft top is therefore not an option so I know I will at some point get caught. Thoughts??

Nolan

You know that you will get caught in the rain at some point or worse you drive in to work and it rains on her!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

A good rule of thumb on the Subaru.
The connectors under the hood or on the engine are all water resistant.
The ones in the passenger compartment are not.

Water resistant connector
24219

Not protected connectors.
24220

It's not if I will get caught in the rain, it is how often I will get caught in the rain.

I will take steps to protect the non protected connectors.
For example: I will put my engine ECM in a rubber bag with wires down. Then I will tie the bottom on the bag tightly with a couple of tie wraps.

24221

[tirod]

If you can't ensure the interior won't get wet, you waterproof the harness. 4WD offroaders refuse to, tho, and after a few summers soaking, stuck in mudholes and creeks, they learn otherwise. Nothing works. They can change the fluids, no problem, and then they start changing the wiring. It gets ugly.

Cars are the bottom rung of the transportation tier of vehicles, the average bass boat has better. Move up to a marine grade installation and it will be waterproof. It means shrink tubing, waterproof connections, and dielectric grease. No exposed conductors whatsoever. If even springtime condensation can form on it, then it will wick up under the insulation and it will corrode the base copper. That's why milspec uses tinned wire to stop the corrosion.

Auto wire connectors aren't rated for many disconnects - just swapped motors in my Forester, and I averaged about 1 in 3 getting broken or damaged. A donor harness is going to have the same problem, it's common to run a ty rap around them on reassembly to keep them together on off road rigs.

I know mechanics aren't likely to think much about the wiring on rods - I didn't - but I like to post up this link by others who have it even worse. It brings things up to speed on the worst case situations and how they are handled: http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html

Consider - if it's really a long term project with mods, repairs, etc in it's future, it's not much different from keeping a combat platform going. That means periodic replacement of fuel lines, components, etc., and that is a guarantee that wiring will nee to be disconnected and moved out of the way. Daily drivers aren't built for that - a few repairs over a ten year period define what we prefer in our cars. Most of us don't swap engines, remove transmissions, etc and for sure, they aren't built to help that one bit. It's all about ease of assembly on the line, and no quarter is given for future repair.

Me, instead of trying to hide it all and make it even harder to get to - it's getting completely exposed ala McLaren, right out in front and totally accessible. That is made exponentially easier with a CAN bus multiplex system, as there are half as many wires, and only from the switches to controller, and power outputs to load.

[Mechie3]

I'm keeping everything either under the firewall or under the dash so there's less chance of direct contact if it rains.. In between there is only 1 connector and that is covered by the tunnel. There is also a set of conenctors in the engine bay, but these are all waterproof.

For some of the larger connectors where I've removed a lot of pins I've actually cut the connector out and soldered these wires together. Originally these were used so the bulkhead harness was separate from the rear harness. Now, with the ECU in the rear, the front bulkhead harness is 1/2 in front, 1/2 in rear so there is no need to have 6 feet of wiring to span a 2 foot space.

[b1doby]

yesterday when paying my bill at marina to put boat away for winter......they had corrugated bilge tubing in bulk in about 8 sizes, and in black or sorta clear. I saw them as future wiring channels. $20 does an entire car. Stuff large enough if split to cover frame and roll-bar during construction maybe $30 for entire car.

also bulk submersible wire & connections. Boats have gauges.....lights under water in boating often........They also buff and polish gel coat as daily normal activity.
lots of LED sidemarker applications and brakelights.

My boat has twin 6.2 liter engines, and it seemed 2013 had one of them angry all year, and they took turns. Chevy LS engines designed to be cooled with sal****er.

Point being that boat dealers have stuff we can use that is better than auto manufacturers utilize when building our cars, or just stuff we think we need to be waterproof.

Boat seats are 24/7, 365 in the elements. Use that same material on your 818 seats and carpet when trying to out drive a driving thunderstorm in a race.

wintertime is when marina's place orders for spring orders........if building a car you could make a new buddy and buy some materials made to be waterproof from a local marina. Browse the catalogs and place an order.

They also may be good point of contact for gelcoat repairs and maintenance.

[nkw8181]

Wow that is awesome! So how will you water proof the wrx display gauge since it will be exposed?

[Racebrewer]

GM Dielectric grease? Silicone based.

[svanlare]

@tirod - I've had to re-wire 2 lemon's race cars and this (http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html) was a great write up that would have helped greatly and certainly will help when I get to my build, thanks for sharing.

[tirod]

Most of us don't like wiring. Same view in street rods, they invented the one wire alternator and hide the wiring in show cars. I've always driven old cars and the wiring has been the #1 problem. You can rebuild anything mechanical on the car as long as repair parts exist, even then you can substitute and fabricate. Wiring? You just rip it out and start over. Nobody "remanufactures" a wiring harness - except kit builders . . .

I drive old cars. When the harness develops a 2 volt drop and the door locks refuse to work, the window motors take twice as long to raise the glass, and your crank sensor has to get the mod where you plumb it directly thru a hole in the firewall and connect it directly to the ECU plug (a TSB issued in 1989 for my 90 Cherokee - a year prior to my car being built, WTH?), you learn that wiring on factory cars is planned obsolescence of the first order.

It's taken for granted on a serious restoration of any vintage car - rip out all the old wiring, start over.

It's why I can't imagine using a donor harness already 10+ years old, or buying one new made up exactly the same way the factories do it - Cheap As Possible. Heavy on the Cheap As, so to speak. Same unplated wire, single coat insulation, bare wire in open terminals with no weatherproofing.

Any one take their daily driver to the car wash and power spray the engine? It's done all the time, but plenty get towed, too. A 1500 psi sprayer will push water into connections and short them out. Dead in the water right there. It takes days to dry out, no car until then. Or, you hose every connection down with WD40 - what it really is for - and maybe it will start. Which should tell you something - a spray can of WD will get into the connections, too.

Consider you build the kit, keep it for 10 -15 years, and then put it up for sale. If it has a donor harness, it's now 25-30 years old. Like most used cars, it's the #1 reason it's up for sale - the electric stuff won't work right. Codes, lights, accessories not working. It's a major detractor to getting the best resale value.

Old car wiring harnesses are a ticking bomb, and the ones sold to replace them are largely made from the exact same stuff. Nice and new only lasts for awhile. In an open roadster they age very quickly.

[nkw8181]

If I have the time ( which I believe I will) I may replace all wiring and connectors an only keep the connectors that plug into something. First thing is first. Take donor apart starting monday!! whoo hoo then the rest to follow. If I do I'll be sure to post pics with the progress on my build page which I need to start.