818 powdercoating issue

[wallace18]

I thought I would post this. I also sent an email to FFR. The powder coat is falling off my frame even in places I have not touched. There is rusted metal underneath. Improper metal prep is my best guess. At least I got the fenders and hood to line up.

2418224183241842418524186

[Frank818]

That's sad for the powder coat.

[RM1SepEx]

[QUOTE=wallace18;129829]I thought I would post this. I also sent an email to FFR. The powder coat is falling off my frame even in places I have not touched. There is rusted metal underneath. Improper metal prep is my best guess. At least I got the fenders and hood to line up.

/QUOTE]

I have the same problem, sent photos and emails weeks ago... no reply :-( Plase keep me posted, I'll do likewise

[metalmaker12]

That's too bad, I do think they should get all frames sand blasted first

[Mechie3]

Well, now I have to go home and check mine...

The only things I remember were the body panels rubbing against the frame during shipping causing wear marks.

[RM1SepEx]

I had the rub marks too... arly kits, they had not worked out the shipping methods... I hope

[C.Plavan]

I'm not missing any powder coat yet. Just slag and weld splatter in spots under the powder coat. Bad prep. I don't care if it is hidden under body panels, but when it is in plain view on the roll bars it kinda ticks me off.

[David Hodgkins]

I had a little peeling on the front tow hooks on my MKIII. I hit it with a little POR15 and moved on.

:)

[longislandwrx]

I had a huge flake come off in the same place as picture 2. And a few more smaller areas. If it bothers me I will get that piece recoated.

$400 to PC a frame seemed too good to be true and in fact is. I could have had it done locally for about $1000 in any color. Oh well, no big deal, its a race car not a show car.

[metalmaker12]

They did not really prep them if they were not blasted

[Canadian818]

I question the quality of the welder. Spatter should be minimal if the machine is set properly, and any decent welder cleans off his spatter.

[metalmaker12]

Yeah the por15 is a good touch up idea

[ktm]

I visited the factory a few weeks ago. Took a tour and was quite amazed. Lots of good things to see. The show room is fun. I really enjoyed sitting in the cars. The not so good things that stood out were- they built very few cars before entering production, weld splatter and the body damage. I hadn't planned on commenting, but this hits 2 of the 3 complaints I have.

All of the frames (coupe, roadster, 818) had weld spatter all over - not covered, but it was easily seen around each weld from a few feet. Tour guide said its ground off before PC. - fair amount of flash rust too and I would think that is normal given their proximity to the ocean. I was told each frame was frame blasted before PC. Didn't think too much about it.

I suspect many will be disappointed with the bodies on their 818's. in the area where the cars are ready to ship, the 5-6 818's that I saw all had rub marks, scratches, and chips around the edges. Some chips were the size of a quarter, others maybe 2-3 quarters. All chips were on the edges, most likely where they put them on the ground.

I was surprised that there was little care for the panels as they moved through the shop. I have spent some time in various car manufacturing facilities (BMW, VW, and Toyota), all wrap panels and handle with care. Panels were just placed on the ground and stacked against the wall waiting to be attached for shipping. When I asked my tour guide why no care, he said "it's a $10k kit" what do you expect. I told him I expected a no finish body and will want a refund for damage. The response was that "we work with everyone who has damage and not to worry about it."


It's a fairly efficient operation, but a lot is subcontracted to other producers (parts for all kits, not necessarily the 818)
Seeing as though it took a week of leaving messages and emails to pay them. I not overly optimistic that they will "take care of it" easily.

[waruaki]

I have rub marks through the powder coat from where the body rubbed against the chassis during shipment and like the other post's assorted MIG weld splatter. Either the MIG welder wasn't set up properly or more likely the steel was dirty (surface rust or contaminants on top of the steel) when it was welded. That would also account for the powder coat not adhering properly.

[metalmaker12]

In fairness to there welders: With short arc mig you get spatter no matter how well your set up. When you have to weld a frame and not overheat it you have to run on the colder side. I have 12 years of welding experience and weld everyday 6-7 days a week, mig ( short arc, pulse and spray) and tig, stick etc. bottom line if spatter was cleaned and the frames were actually blasted, (which there not) we would not be having this conversation.

[Mechie3]

Panels were just placed on the ground and stacked against the wall waiting to be attached for shipping. When I asked my tour guide why no care, he said "it's a $10k kit" what do you expect. I told him I expected a no finish body and will want a refund for damage. The response was that "we work with everyone who has damage and not to worry about it."

That doesn't seem right. If it was a $10k kit that didn't promise a no finish body I'd say "eh, ok". If they promise XYZ, it doesn't matter what the price is if that's the price and features they set and promised.

Seems to me, from a business standpoint, it'd be better to take more care of the parts than to try to work to fix or replace damages. I don't care how much stuff costs, it should still be handled with care.

[flynntuna]

That doesn't seem right. If it was a $10k kit that didn't promise a no finish body I'd say "eh, ok". If they promise XYZ, it doesn't matter what the price is if that's the price and features they set and promised.

Seems to me, from a business standpoint, it'd be better to take more care of the parts than to try to work to fix or replace damages. I don't care how much stuff costs, it should still be handled with care.

Couldn't have said it better. Just the cost of shipping panels back and forth should be incentive itself to take precautions to insure that these "no paint" panels arrive to the customer in a condition that are up to FFR's standards.

[Frank818]

Is an FFR staff reading this thread?
I don't want my kit to look like post #274! It stresses me out a lot.

[Jason Lavigne]

Hi guys,

RM1SepEx, I believe Tony here at FFR is already in communication with you. If anyone has a question or issue that needs to be immediately addressed, please direct those to us by email or, better yet, by phone, and one of us will be happy to help. We do regularly browse the Forum, especially the Ask a Tech forum, but you'll get the quickest response by phone.

The best emails would be Tech@FactoryFive.com, or call 508-291-3443.

Thanks,

Jason @ FFR

[Frank818]

Tnx Jason. :)

[tmoretta]

It sounds like I should recind my order for powder coating. If pieces are flaking off, then maybe it is an option not worth paying for. It is also depressing to hear that the "no paint" bodies are really not, and that they are arriving with surface damage. But, what to do?

[Jason Lavigne]

I think the best way to view the purpose of the black powdercoat is as a protective coating rather than as a show-finish. It's extremely durable and well worth the money, in my opinion. Most people leave it as it is, but some people paint the powdercoated surface afterward. For the benefit of anyone reading: A bit of info on the powdercoating process itself... each chassis gets phosphate-washed (phosphoric acid) to remove any oils or impurities from the steel, and then the coating is applied. It's an electrostatic process that attracts the powder to the chassis, and then it gets baked on. Once in a while, sharp corners can result in a thinner coating, which can be susceptible to flaking. We have seen it once in a great while, certainly never widespread, and for any cause of powdercoat damage throughout your build, I think David Hodgkins' suggestion of POR15 in an earlier post is the best approach.

I'm happy to discuss it further if you'd like - just give me a call.

Jason @ FFR

[RM1SepEx]

Jason

I've tried to do this off the forum but here it goes:

You are correct, it is an electrostatic process and it adheres to the metal. If it flakes off, it was NOT properly prepared, it has nothing to do with "being thin", that is BS. I powder coat myself, at home. I even have an area where you could scratch it off with your fingernail. Again it was NOT properly prepared. As you noted earlier I have indeed been communicating with Tony Z and before that Dan G and my powder coating is DEFECTIVE. I identified it within 3 days of picking up the kit on August 1. I was told to paint it... I paid for the heavy duty protective coating. I didn't expect a show finish. I have no idea how my powder coating will hold up or where it will chip off due to improper prep next.

I don't feel that the correct customer service solution is for me to go out and purchase a quart of POR15 and then some high quality paint to make it match. The absolute LEAST thing that FFR could do would be to send me a quart of POR15 and a can of high quality gloss black chassis paint since the POR15 isn't really black and apologize for shipping defective powder coating.

[D Clary]

I have had chassis coated in the past, they have all been blasted and the coater gave me touch up for repairs (race car) This was at a much higher price than the coating offered by FFR. Given the opportunity I would be happy to pay more to get more. Blasting and painting chassis is a very time consuming job and I can imagine adding blasting or etching primer would more than double the price. It would be nice if it were an option.

[Frank818]

I agree on the option, as a security precaution for those who want it, some are willing to pay for it.

[SixStar]

We opted to have our cars painted locally for a few reasons. There will be some modifications made to both chassis before they can be painted, just in case we had an issue local is better, and we get to pick sweet colors. Not that I don't like Henry Ford, he was a great man.

[WIS89]

I agree on the option, as a security precaution for those who want it, some are willing to pay for it.

Actually, I think it is an option. We can all have the chassis powder coated locally to whatever standard we wish. No coating, FFR coating, or coated locally.

Regards,

Steve

[Aloha818]

I might as well weigh in also. I had my frame powder coated by FFR and my passenger side looked exactly like pic #2 in post #1 above, the exact same place on the drivers side the entire top area was loose and slight rust underneath. The welds on my frame also have some excessive splatter that was not removed.

I cleaned/sanded the area, sprayed some self-etching primer and a couple coats of gloss black. I did not alert FFF, just kept building.

I guess my position is that I'm glad the kit and the powder coating price was affordable. Since my kit was going to spend a week on the ocean, and the finished car will spend 99% of its time across the street from the beach, powder coating by FFR was not really an option. I'm working with a local powder coater on the project here in Hawaii that I'm working on so I can get anything coated for cost (or less). But even then, for the time, cost and energy to have to load up the frame and transport back and forth to get get coated, and the quality if the FFR job, I still would have elected to pay the price to FFR.

Would I have paid another $200-400 extra for cleaned up welds, better prep and better job, yes/maybe.

But in the end, as long as the frame doesn't rust and the welds hold I'm happy. The frame is not visible after completion and 99.9% of the people that will see one of these finished cars will be wowed by the overall presentation! and never even see the frame. Do I think FFR should do a better job, absolutely, would I have done anything different, or not ordered the kit, absolutely not.

[Xusia]

^Yeah. I think I'm in this camp. If the powder coating on my frame has some bad spots, I'll just deal with it. But I do wish there was an option for a higher quality prep job.

[Frank818]

I don't mind either, what I do mind somewhat is that if it starts to flake out after everything is installed and you don't see it starts to come off and rust, that I wouldn't want.

[Mechie3]

^^ That would be my concern. Once panels are in place and everything installed it'd be terrible to find out a year from now that pieces are coming off all over. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[RM1SepEx]

mine has flaked off just running a hand over it, not due to some "impact"

[b1doby]

Boat trailer manufacturers have gone to using truck bed roll on liner to finish trailers. They used to use high gloss auto paint.

You can't compare the 2.

If you dunked your boat 1 time in salt water, and did not scrub trailer with a toothbrush....your paint was future history.

My suggestion is you clean and sand your frame to your specifications, and either powder cost it locally or paint what you can't see with truck bed liner, and gloss rattle can for what you can. Put adhesive primer on first.

The factory finish or optional finish is an option with frame and body panels.

If you want better than you have to do it.

If you don't get frame powder coated at the factory, you have an excuse with the wife to buy plasma cutter and tig welder combo, and show her how it works.

above is my plan for getting new tools. I can paint frames, and wife likes to paint. Air grinders and sanders make quick work of splatter. I can have a cool one watching wife paint frame.

[Mechie3]

I think the main concern is that we paid $400 up front for what we thought we be a decent, non show quality, finish that is already flaking and may not show long term adhesion. Sure, people could have it coated locally, but now there's added cost of removing the current coat and then the cost of coating plus the $400 you already spent.

[RM1SepEx]

word

I would have paid more for add'l prep to get the more durable finish that I expected.

[wleehendrick]

I'll have to take a closer look at my frame, before I get too much further in assembly. However, from what I've seen so far (not looking for defects in particular) my frame is good. Now, a lot of the other bare parts (brackets, etc..) were ugly, but my powder coater sandblasts everything as a matter or course. I'm not sure what he would have charged for the frame, but to save the hassle of hauling it there and back I'm happy with the price and (so far) quality of FFR's PC job.

[Oppenheimer]

Hopefully this is one of the areas where FFR will learn from the early kits and make improvements.

No paint panels are a new concept for them. I imagine they have been in the habit of not needing kid gloves on panels in the past, becuase on all previous kits owner would be doing body work and paint anyway. So not having to take that extra care was convenient and a way to be just that much more efficient getting kits out the door. Old habits hard to break. Hopefully they will learn how to treat the 818 panels differently, appropriately. Of course, this should have been obvious from the start, not something that had to be learned.

Yes, they have been doing powder coat for years now, so should have process down. But its a new chassis, and perhaps there are things to learn about problems areas that require more attention, as it seems most have issues in the same places. It does sound like everyone is understanding of the deal they got, and wouldn't have a problem with some minor issues in a few places that required some POR-15, etc. But it sounds like the issues people are finding are much worse than that. Sounds like a fix is needed.

It also does sound like a good idea for FFR to offer a higher quality PC service option. Even if its not any cheaper than having it done locally, there is a convenience factor that it sounds like people are willing to pay for. FFR could offer 'economical' PC (their current offering) and 'extra durable' PC, which includes more prep at a higher price. Client could opt for either or none.

But I feel for those that paid, and now have to deal with the existing coating that isn't holding up. Its not so much what was paid, or even the cost of doing something else, its the coating that is now in the way of an easy fix (paint yourself with bed-liner, PC locally, etc.)

[Jeff Kleiner]

I said this in another thread recently:



Can't speak directly to the 818 yet but I've built 3 roadsters with FFR powder coating. All looked good and are holding up well with oldest being over 7 years old. I'd expect similar on the 818.

Unfortunately it sounds like things have changed. I've not heard complaints from recent roadster, Coupe, GTM or '33 customers. It's my understanding that the PC is not done in house and I have to wonder if the contract for coating the 818 was awarded to a different vendor than the one who has been performing satisfactorily on the other kits. Ultimately it's up to FFR to manage QC and if an outside supplier isn't delivering they have to put the pressure on to step it up or take the business elsewhere.

Jeff

[Joe Scott]

Jeff, The same company is powder-coating the 818 that has powder-coated all of our frames since 2004-2005 time frame. They have always used the same method for prep-powder. we are trying to find the variable here, since we typically do not get complaints on the powder-coating. the 818 frame is not treated different than any other frame, and is washed/powdered in the same fashion that a customer from 2006 would have received a frame. Joe@FFRTECH

[David Hodgkins]

Thanks Joe, nice to know the factory is following the thread.

:)

[Frank818]

Yes, like David said, very nice to know. But on top of that, extremely nice to know that FFR is currently, as we speak, looking into it and trying to find the culprit. Tell that to a big manufacturer and it would take either a lot of time or many extremely regrettable situations to have them move. :)

[Xusia]

This is why FFR got my business. I don't expect perfection, but I do expect a reasonable effort to resolve problems & complaints and I think FFR does a good job in this area.

[theburner9]

I got my frame powdercoated locally in red for $250 as a favor. One thing the guy mentioned to me was that any laser cut parts had to be sandblasted beforehand or the coating would peel easily from those parts. I'm not sure if FFR has used laser cut parts on past vehicles, but that might be one thing they should look into.

[D K]

I think we should put a running list together of all the known defects or issues.
Steering rack
weld quality
powder coat
stack of washers
front wheel clearance
chipped bodies
etc. etc.

Then, maybe FFR can make changes?

[ktm]

YES! The long awaited day finally arrived and the car was delivered. Stewart did a wonderful job delivering the car. Very pleased with them.

The PC on my frame looks great! There are a few bare metal scratches on the roll bar right where the card board tubes rubbed, but I hit those with VHT Epoxy paint and it looks great. Very pleased.


The panels look fantastic! Yes, I am very pleased with the flat parts. They look wonderful, very nice. Now, if the body panels didn't have corners or edges they would be perfect! It looks like they skipped school on the day they taught the body guys how to do the corners or edges (or how ever you want to describe creases, edges, corners, or any end or 90 degree part on the car). :o

Looking at the 1st corner of the car, we thought "oh well we can fix that", then looking at the 2nd corner of the car, we had that sinking feeling-- you know the one you get when you know you made a mistake.... Then the 3rd and 4th corners turned to being upset because nobody in any sort of QC field could have passed these as good. Then with the 5th, 6th 7th and so on, we started laughing at the quality. Every edge and every corner has some sort of damage. Mostly they look unfinished or are chipped. There's is about a 1/2 a dime size hole in the upper part of the driver door frame. We pulled the trunk lids and just started laughing. I mean, come on! The trunk lid that actually has grass stuck to the raw fiberglass side. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Lucky us!

Really unhappy with the body. It has to be filled and painted if you want anything better than a 10 footer.

But hey, It's the holiday season and I wasn't about to let this bother me. I got the car on the Monday before Christmas. No, I haven't contacted FFR. I am debating if I will or not. Other than sending new body panels, there's really nothing they can do now. Sure, maybe they could do something like "heres' a few hundred for repairs", but really, the car has to be wrapped or painted.

This isn't a one off issue, I saw the same and worse on the factory tour. Seriously considered canceling my order then. I didn't because I was already $5k into my donor. You know, it's like the serf defending the dead knight's horse -- too engaged to call it when I should have.

The car is still really cool and I expect to be into it about $17-19k. Thing is, for that much, I want a good looking body, not one with a bunch of chips and looks home built.

Yes we are having a ball building the car. It took a while to figure out how the instruction book writer thinks- but once we got the hang of it, it's a lot of fun!


Here's a few pictures for your viewing pleasure ** edited with a few comments from my 16 year old son and 13 year old daughter:rolleyes::rolleyes:


Yeah, that'll buff right out! :)

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/barretttrucking/FFR%20BODY%20PANELS/DSC_0163_zpsd1195235.jpg


No big deal cuz' the hole vents the rear brakes
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/barretttrucking/FFR%20BODY%20PANELS/DSC_0155_zps9361c2f3.jpg


Geez Dad- that car looks so fast, nobody will be able see that!

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/barretttrucking/FFR%20BODY%20PANELS/DSC_0158_zpsea7b7101.jpg

Dad- the girls only look at the front of the car anyway:p

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/barretttrucking/FFR%20BODY%20PANELS/DSC_0154_zps109b392a.jpg

Just put on a set of spinners- everyone will be laughing so hard, ain't nobody gonna care about the trunk!
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/barretttrucking/FFR%20BODY%20PANELS/DSC_0140_zps186b2d0f.jpg

Brighter tail lights will blind the guy lookin' at it- he'll see spots instead!
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/barretttrucking/FFR%20BODY%20PANELS/DSC_0146_zps230aef6f.jpg

Yeah baby- that's all grass-- lots of grass!

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/barretttrucking/FFR%20BODY%20PANELS/DSC_0143_zps46823c89.jpg

And the best for last:
It's all good- I can clean that up with the lawn mower!
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/barretttrucking/FFR%20BODY%20PANELS/DSC_0144_zps0ecbde11.jpg

[Canadian818]

^^^ wow

[WRX Dave]

Yikes, that's a little disconcerting.

[Mechie3]

Mine is overall better than that, but the more I've done body stuff the more i've noticed the little voids in the creases. I'm waiting until it's all together to see how many spots actually show before I make the call to paint it.

[Xusia]

Like Mechie3, I think mine fared slightly better, but it will definitely require attention. Overall my experience with FFR has been very good, but this is one thing that bothers me - only because they are advertising/marketing it as "paint free." I don't see any way to address the issues on the body without having to paint or wrap it afterward. I had a body guy come over and check it out and he said pretty much the same thing: Fill & sand, which you can't leave paint free.

I'm not mad, but I am disappointed in this aspect of the kit.

[RM1SepEx]

They sent me gel coat, two cans to mix at 50-50 and mek as a catalyst

I'm told the areas clean up fast with 2000 grit wet sanding

my long upper edges of the rear fenders are very "clumpy" in the gel coat.

Since it hit -20 F last night I won't be heating the garage just yet but like Craig the body stuff is next for me as well. I'll keep everyone posted with photos on how it cleaned up. I plan on doing what I can with the white gel coat and making everything removable to allow wrap or paint if needed.

[Frank818]

KTM, I am very disappointed. :(

[wleehendrick]

Mine is overall better than that, but the more I've done body stuff the more i've noticed the little voids in the creases. I'm waiting until it's all together to see how many spots actually show before I make the call to paint it.

I'm in the same situation... overall pretty good, but a few spots that need work. Ideally, I'd like to use a white filler that's close to the gel coat, and then evaluate the results. Does such a thing exist? If not, I could try paint blending over the few areas that need work. This isn't within my skill set, but I know that a shop can do it. On my Z, the Le Mans Sunset metallic orange is tough to match, when I got a minor rear-ender, I brought it to Amato's a high end body shop in San Diego for repair. Since they were spraying, I had them re-spray an old repair a spot on the bumper from the first owner that wasn't properly blended that showed in the right light. End result... they didn't have to spray the whole bumper, for a few extra bucks beyond what insurance was paying for, they they did a perfect job matching and blending a small area in a noticeable area with a tough color for a picky customer. If they can do that, I'm sure they could match the gel coat and spray white on the few areas requiring touching up on my panels. If I do all the prep, and bring the panels in all at once, hopefully it will be reasonable priced.

[RM1SepEx]

How did we go from the powder coat issues to the gel coat issues in this thread?

I'm a lucky one and I have both :rolleyes:

[WRX Dave]

I'm in the same situation... overall pretty good, but a few spots that need work. Ideally, I'd like to use a white filler that's close to the gel coat, and then evaluate the results. Does such a thing exist? If not, I could try paint blending over the few areas that need work. This isn't within my skill set, but I know that a shop can do it. On my Z, the Le Mans Sunset metallic orange is tough to match, when I got a minor rear-ender, I brought it to Amato's a high end body shop in San Diego for repair. Since they were spraying, I had them re-spray an old repair a spot on the bumper from the first owner that wasn't properly blended that showed in the right light. End result... they didn't have to spray the whole bumper, for a few extra bucks beyond what insurance was paying for, they they did a perfect job matching and blending a small area in a noticeable area with a tough color for a picky customer. If they can do that, I'm sure they could match the gel coat and spray white on the few areas requiring touching up on my panels. If I do all the prep, and bring the panels in all at once, hopefully it will be reasonable priced.

You can buy gel coat for boat hull cosmetic repairs, should work to fill in any gaps. Granted, FFR should just figure out what the problem on their end is and fix it. I know it's "only a $10k kit", but if they're going to advertise a no-paint finish they need to deliver one.

[flynntuna]

You can buy gel coat for boat hull cosmetic repairs, should work to fill in any gaps. Granted, FFR should just figure out what the problem on their end is and fix it. I know it's "only a $10k kit", but if they're going to advertise a no-paint finish they need to deliver one.

Lots of products to do just that. Color matching hopefully won't be a problem..


The West Advisor: Gelcoat Repairs - West Marine
www.westmarine.com/webapp/.../WestAdvisorView?...Gelcoat-Repairs
Do-it-Yourself: Gelcoat Repairs. The next time you're cleaning and waxing your boat, take the time to look for small cracks, scratches and chips in its gel coat.

[RM1SepEx]

Try this link

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/WestAdvisorView?langId=-1&storeId=11151&page=Gelcoat-Repairs

[flynntuna]

Try this link

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/WestAdvisorView?langId=-1&storeId=11151&page=Gelcoat-Repairs

That's the one I was trying to get to. This is also a good one...




http://boatworkstoday.com/


► 3:13► 3:13
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWEE6SFUdpg
Mar 21, 2007 - Uploaded by TAP Plastics
http://www.tapplastics.com/ This video segment is part one of a 2-part series that will show you ...

► 6:23► 6:23
www.youtube.com/watch?v=en-8SbhdF_k
Mar 21, 2007 - Uploaded by TAP Plastics
http://www.tapplastics.com/ This video segment is part two of a 2-part series that will show you ...

[C.Plavan]

You should see the cutout FFR did on my rear hatch.... The cuts for the R roll cage..... A 3 year old could of done better.

But GRASS! Some people should be fired for that crap.

[mindinclouds]

Sounds like there may be some Q.C. issues while trying to meet a high production volume. Another possible factor.... While watching the new FFR video today, in the portions where they are giving a tour around the production areas I was surprised to see lots of fiberglass parts just stacked on the floors or leaned against the walls (with no protection between parts), so no surprise that some customers are getting less than what they expected. Now granted, a lot of the parts seen in the video were for other models other than the 818 so maybe they are represented that the builder should expect to do some filling / finish work. If the F.G. parts for the 818 were not represented as being "finish quality" this would not be an issue. Hopefully production and handling of the parts will improve as the design matures

[bbjones121]

It sounds like they are going "Green" in their builds to help the environment.

[bbjones121]

Every new product has hiccups. I trust they will fix these issues.

I only hope that the plastic panel manufacturing progress is coming along so that I can get a blue or red 818. Also... I am sure there is a lot of pressure from all the demand right now and I would think that producing the panels in plastic thermoform might help production time.

[RM1SepEx]

That's the one I was trying to get to. This is also a god one...




http://boatworkstoday.com/

excellent, I've bookmarked them both!

[tmoretta]

This is first I have heard of colors. Anybody know if other colors will be offered, when?

[Harley818]

Up till now, almost everything I read was positive and sounded great.
I'm disappointed to find numerous body issues.
I sure hope they are following this thread and will sort it out.
In my industry (fiberglass waterslide parts) we treat each part with respect and protection. Thereis no other way. You can't just stack parts on the floor or on each other without some protection. Padded wrap is cheap.
OK FFR...... now its up to you to make this right. I think most of the guys are dissapointed but optimistic that you will.

[K3LAG]

I have to say that I am also somewhat disappointed in the quality of the fiberglass. The large surfaces look great, but the edges definitely need work. I have one rear wheel lip on the rear bumper that has a pretty good hunk of gel coat loose/missing. I also have the same general overall messiness of the edges that others have reported. I plan to paint the car, so it won't be a huge deal to fix up all that stuff, but it sure would have been nice for it to have been 'paint free' as advertised.

I asked about the thermoform panels last month when we picked up our kit. It was described to me as still being a science project. I get the feeling it is still quite a ways out.

Larry

[WRX Dave]

It's a bit surprising to see all these fiberglass issues. The GRM car that I saw at Wayne's shop definitely didn't have a perfect finish, but it was much better than what I'm seeing here. Maybe they're just rushing things too much now.

[bbjones121]

It was my understanding that three colors, red, white, and blue were going to be offered when they figured out the plastic thermoforms.

[Jeff Kleiner]

You can't just stack parts on the floor or on each other without some protection. Padded wrap is cheap.

Grass is cheaper ;) :

http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server1500/6661c/products/278/images/264/mk4body__73781.1337701307.1280.1280.jpg

Cheers,
Jeff

[Mechie3]

It's a bit surprising to see all these fiberglass issues. The GRM car that I saw at Wayne's shop definitely didn't have a perfect finish, but it was much better than what I'm seeing here. Maybe they're just rushing things too much now.

They might have done some finishing. I'm not sure how much you can sand or buff the corners before you break through. also the release wax stuck in the creases makes it look even worse. Once that is cleaned it'll probably look better.

[carbon fiber]

I'd try to get the same gelcoat that ffr is using, that's the best chance for color matching. do a test with the gelcoat before using it on the panels, sometimes you need more mekp to compensate for temps and humidity. it's cheap insurance, as compared to having gelcoat on panels that didn't set up. with some work they can be made to look pretty good for those who don't want to paint. they should have been made/handled better in the first place though.

[C.Plavan]

It was my understanding that three colors, red, white, and blue were going to be offered when they figured out the plastic thermoforms.

Good luck with that..... Don't hold your breath.

[RM1SepEx]

I'd try to get the same gelcoat that ffr is using, that's the best chance for color matching. do a test with the gelcoat before using it on the panels, sometimes you need more mekp to compensate for temps and humidity. it's cheap insurance, as compared to having gelcoat on panels that didn't set up. with some work they can be made to look pretty good for those who don't want to paint. they should have been made/handled better in the first place though.

I had some voids, FFR sent me two qts of gel coat material and a small tube of MEK

ask and you shall receive. Perhaps a small qty of gel coat should come with each kit for gel coat touch up...

[Frank818]

RM, you got that for free?

[Mechie3]

I did some experimenting yesterday. I needed to shave down the fender/front bumper interface as there was a bead on the corner preventing it from sitting flush. While I was at it, I filed and scraped the entire crease that looked bad. The gel coat was thick enough that I could shave it flat without breaking through to the fiberglass. To shave it, I took a razor blade and using the non blade edge laid it on the crease at an angle and pulled backwards. It looks much much better. One of the beads I filed down broke through to fiber glass, but i'm not surprised. The bump on the corner was a good 3/16 taller than the rest of the surface.