PlastiDip to replace powder coat on chassis?

[Frank818]

I found some paint that seems to be very good and lasting quite long on wheels and car paint, according to reviews I've seen. Unless my search on this forum was wrong, I didn't find anything about it yet (here).

http://www.plastidip.com/
http://www.dipit.ca/

What do you think of using this instead of FFR's powder coat?
You can spray it matte, gloss, any colors you want, basically. There are multiple videos on youtube.

I was wondering about your opinions.

[JeromeS13]

No. Unless you want to recoat it often. Powder coating is MUCH more durable and should last the life of the chassis.

[Frank818]

Does it mean it may come off from wheels/car paint after some time?
Or it's cuz the chassis is not the same material as wheels or car paint, so it doesn't stick on it as well?

[Olli]

...becuase it can peel off

It would also be a disaster to even try to silicon and rivit your panels to.

Olli

[DruOdil]

How about after you rivit and just spray it on after your finished? Just in low traffic areas like the front side of the dash/fire wall??

[RMB]

Go on YouTube and watch some videos of it being removed, it just peels right off. I can't see it lasting very long with road debree hitting it.

Rob

[68GT500MAN]

When powder coat material is applied and baked properly it is VERY durable (that is why soda machine cabinets are powder coated). I would maybe use this material in the wheel wells in place of bedliner.
Doug

[wleehendrick]

A lot of people hate on PlastiDip as it's getting trendy. I'm actually thinking about 'dipping' (actually spraying) my body for a matte or satin finish in a bright color. Once it drys, it reasonable durable for a body coating... If I get tired of it, peel it off and try something new. That being said, it is simply not suitable for the frame, you want something permanent there.

[RMB]

I will add, that it is great for bodies. A guy in the Houston Cobra Club just had his body plastidipped. He has a BD, and it cost him $900 to have the body done with stripes, and all chrome to black. The company that did it will repair any fade/crack/tear for 2 years. I haven't seen it in person, but the pics of it looked great.

Rob

[Frank818]

That being said, it is simply not suitable for the frame, you want something permanent there.

So would you on the wheels, no?

[Kalstar]

Slightly off topic but might be of help to you....I am painting my 818 frame with roll on rustolum. I painted a rusted car carrier with it 3 years ago, no flaking, peeling, still looking great. I did zero prep, just painted it on. It dryed glossy with no brush marks. This stuff is great. A gallon of rustolum is about $30.00 and there will be plenty left over. Comes in about 10 colors too. Factory Five will powder coat your frame with any color you want so long as it is black.

[Frank818]

Yeah I was about to say on that Henry Ford famous statement. :)
I mean it's fine in black for me for the color matching I plan (currently!) on doing, but I like being aware of my options too.

So you won't wrap your frame with your new wrap stuff you became a distributor for? :)
Ultimate Premium Plus.

http://www.rustoleum.ca/
http://www.rustoleum.ca/CBGBrand.asp?bid=19

That's the one?
It's a Canadian co or what?

[Kalstar]

Here is the black gallon....

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Rust-Oleum-Professional-High-Performance-Protective-Enamel-1-Gallon/20999047

But comes in white, silver, couple colors of red, yellow, brown, black, couple colors of blue and green.

No wraping the frame, way too much work. $30.00 worth of paint and two hours= done

[wleehendrick]

So would you on the wheels, no?

Sure, that's probably the most popular application of plastidip. It protects the original wheel finish.

For spraying the body, you would want to get a few gallons and use a sprayer for best results, but for the wheels, just get a rattle can or two.

[tmoretta]

Anybody know what is best paint to touch up FFR's black powder coat? I may add a harness bar etc. on my 818, requiring some grinding/welding.

[Xusia]

So you won't wrap your frame with your new wrap stuff you became a distributor for? :)

For the frame: I don't know that I'd feel confident wrap provided a sufficient enough seal to prevent corrosion. I think the only real options are some kind of metal sealer, paint, or powder coating.


Anybody know what is best paint to touch up FFR's black powder coat? I may add a harness bar etc. on my 818, requiring some grinding/welding.

Black Rustoleum!!! :D

[flynntuna]

This is also a little of topic, but have anyone have any thoughts on Eastwood's internal frame coatings?

[RM1SepEx]

I have several spots where the FFR powder coat wasn't prepped properly

My Plan: use my friend's Eastwood powder coat equipment

http://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-deluxe-powder-coat-kit.html

http://www.eastwood.com/infrared-powder-curing-system.html

[Kalstar]

I have several spots where the FFR powder coat wasn't prepped properly

My Plan: use my friend's Eastwood powder coat equipment

http://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-deluxe-powder-coat-kit.html

http://www.eastwood.com/infrared-powder-curing-system.html

How are you going to bake it? If you are doing the whole frame that is a big oven.

[RM1SepEx]

you didn't click on the second link. IR lamps

I have about a 4 inch by 2 inch area behind the passenger's head on the big tube angling from the roll bar back that wasn't prepped properly... I looked at the PC and it had a rough texture. I was able to scratch it off with a fingernail. I'll sand it down, ground the frame, apply powder using the gun, and use the IR lamp to flow and cure the area. He bought it so that his some could do a motorcycle frame.

[Kalstar]

you didn't click on the second link. IR lamps

I have about a 4 inch by 2 inch area behind the passenger's head on the big tube angling from the roll bar back that wasn't prepped properly... I looked at the PC and it had a rough texture. I was able to scratch it off with a fingernail. I'll sand it down, ground the frame, apply powder using the gun, and use the IR lamp to flow and cure the area. He bought it so that his some could do a motorcycle frame.

That is awesome, thanx for posting that. I did not know the lamps even exsisted. Great problem solver for me I want to do wheels that are too big to fit in the garage oven.

[fastthings]

I have several spots where the FFR powder coat wasn't prepped properly

Prepped properly, try zero prep.

My frame was pc'd over scaly rust. I don't need to mention how pissed I am. The last car I built was featured in a magazine, my GTM will be of the same quality. I can't even put a piece of tape on my frame without the pc coming off with the tape leaveing a big rusty spot.

FFR, why didn't you sandblast the damn frame????

I don't know what to do, just go with it. If I would have known I would have had them send it to me in rust, and I would have had it pc'd myself. Live and learn.

[StatGSR]

I would be all for using plastidip to paint the body of the 818 and have been meaning to bring dip to light to people here just for that reason, but it is a removable product and not truly intended to protect metal. Plastidip is best compared to a vinyl wrap, it provides a layer of protection (to the coating beneath it) but is intended to be removable. Check out http://www.dipyourcar.com/forums/forum.php to learn alot more about how people use it on cars.

i would consider Rustbullet or Por15 products in lieu of powder coating though if i had to, lots of people use those products to restore and protect car frames.

[carbon fiber]

por 15 is tough as nails. $180 gallon @ eastwood in gloss black.

[RM1SepEx]

That is awesome, thanx for posting that. I did not know the lamps even exsisted. Great problem solver for me I want to do wheels that are too big to fit in the garage oven.

Wheels are easy, we built a new oven door out of aluminum with insulation between two layers

the oven door just pulls off, we used the drawer as the inside layer. I think 19s would fit easily

I did my stock 16s with our extended oven door

[StatGSR]

I should also highly recommend not using any form of Rustoleum, it is all pretty much garbage in my experience regardless of how well you prep. So seriously look into Rustbullet and Por 15 products.

http://www.rustbullet.com/
http://www.por15.com/

[C.Plavan]

I have plastidipped a lot of things. I would never use it on the frame. Powdercoat that.
As for....
Wheels- Done it. Holds up well. Do a minimum of 5 very light coats. I mean light coats- watch youtube.
Panels- Works good. I plan on using it on my splash panels- Its rubbery so it will help deflect the rocks my race tires pick up. Easy touch up also.
Whole car- I have seen them in person. Can be streaky and uneven. I would not try it myself. I have blacked out all the chrome on a car before. Looked great and held up to automated car washes fine.
Little parts- I use it all the time. You can always peel it off later if you don't like it.

[Frank818]

Well you convinced me on PlastiDip for all but frame, I have a bunch of ideas now.

For frame, so Rustoleum is risky? One says it's working, another says no, usually opposite comments mean it's risky, but I'll search around.

I would want to protect my frame using any method but a pressurized system or industrial system. So by hand or spray cans is what I look for. If anything is good enough for that.

Oh, Rustbullet uses a brush at the minimum.
I think POR15 is brush and spray as well. Nice then. I may do it myself, anyway I will have to do something as I foresee frame modifications to fit that VR6 in.

[Frank818]

I have plastidipped a lot of things. Its rubbery so it will help deflect the rocks my race tires pick up.

What's your opinion as a sound deadener? Rustoleum says their product is sound deadening to some extent, but what about PlastiDip?

[RMB]

This might answer some of your questions...

https://www.dipyourcar.com/FAQ.html

Rob

[Frank818]

Yes it was interesting to read, I learned a few things.

Nothing on sound deadening though, but that's a start. :)
The forums may have some answers.

[StatGSR]

What's your opinion as a sound deadener? Rustoleum says their product is sound deadening to some extent, but what about PlastiDip?

it can work, just google plastidip sound deadening

that said, not sure its the best product out there and it would depend on what sounds your trying to deaden.

[Frank818]

True.
I guess for me I have enough information now to know I don't want to get my frame powder coated by FFR.
Main reason is that I will have some mods to do for sure, then I need something to touch that up. Since I would have something efficient in small quantities, why now increase that quantity, not powder coat and do it myself.

[metalmaker12]

por 15 is tough as nails. $180 gallon @ eastwood in gloss black.

Second this, this stuff is great

[Xusia]

Hey Frank,

For the frame, I only recommended Rustoleum for touch ups. I would NOT do an entire frame in that. If you want to do it yourself, and want a powder coating alternative, see if there are any guys locally that paint industrial equipment (think garbage trucks, fleet semi-trailers, construction equipment, etc.). The paint they use is much cheaper than POR-15, can be sprayed on, is incredibly durable (just look at the expected use!), and is almost always available in black. Locally, I can get a gallon for around $100 and I swear it's even tougher than powder coating!

For sound deadening, check out this alternative to Lizard Skin that I found, and plan to use: http://www.hytechsales.com/

[Racebrewer]

Hi Xusia,

Got a name for that paint? I need some.

Thanks,
John

[Xusia]

I don't. My Father-in-law is the hook up. My suggestion is to find a local place that paints heavy equipment (they probably do [large/outdoor] sandblasting and powder coating too) and go talk to them. The paint is mixed with a hardener - NO thinner - immediately before application. It is only good for short time and cannot be saved or re-used (so only mix up what you need). Sprays on real nice, and sets up like an enamel. And like I said, it's very durable.

Here's a couple pics of my hubs and dust shields.

2402124022

[tirod]

Is Rustoleum risky? No worse than any other applied liquid product, prep is everything. Exactly the reason some have problems with powdercoating.

Do you need an impervious hard coat on the frame that will last longer than other parts of the car? If so, then the expensive paints do the job, too, for more money.

The "trick" with Rustoleum is prep and sanding between coats, to get a smooth flat finish. It was originally dreamed up in the '90s as an alternative to $8,000 paint jobs requiring $1,000 worth of equipment to spray on liquid paint - with a 60% loss of the paint as it drifted into the air. With paint running $400 a gallon for red in the cheaper grades, you are spraying over half of it away with no application.

So, of course, the paint and body industry has a huge hate on over roll-on Rustoleum. They shouldn't - it still requires competent prep, bodywork, and sanding, and the results of poor work still telegraph the lack of professionalism. What micro thin layer of paint on top is really biased to the application technique more than being technically superior. It's mostly clear over just enough color these days anyway - another further complication.

I've used it, it works, so have hundreds of others, Hot Rod Magazine did an article on it which I feel is a fair review: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/body/hrdp_0707_1962_ford_falcon_budget_paint_job/

Painting the frame means prep, and there's a lot of it. It has to be degreased, cleaned, the welds dressed as much as needed, then some kind of primer applied to help the color coat stick. That's no different than any other application, and that's two details the average DIY will make mistakes doing. It's labor intensive - which is most of the expense in a custom paint job.

Paints that apply directly to bare steel have the primer adhesive ingredients already blended in, or use materials with that ability. I use rust prep spray on coatings, the ones that turn rust into a black inert layer. I've done bike frames, pool ladders, and the roof on my Cherokee, it works. The ladder was the most abusive situation, it soaked in a chlorinated pool six months of the year, and it only rusted where the tubing scraped the upper chine. Basically, it was scratched off - and any paint system will fail in that application.

Once the rust converter is applied, you might still see where there was some rust, which would be minimal after all the cleaning and dressing with a 3M grit pad. Nonetheless, it tackles that part of the job that would otherwise never be detected by blowing an opaque primer on the tubes - where other paints will eventually fail.

Mix the Rustoleum of your color choice - there's a choice, you don't have to live with black - 50/50 with mineral spirits. Fill a roller tray, with tubing, use a smooth foam roller about 2 inches wide sold at Big Box. Apply. It's the consistency of milk, go easy. If you choose to apply Rustoleum direct, that's ok, there would be no sanding or additional coats.

The 50/50 mix dries extremely fast, less than a day and it's rock hard. Straight Rustoleum may take up to a month - the solvent has to vaporize out of the drying film and it takes longer. Heat lamps won't hurt at all, a summer day with temps in the 90's helps a lot.

The result will be having a repairable coat of paint that is durable on the frame for less than $100. You be the judge.

[Kalstar]

Is Rustoleum risky? No worse than any other applied liquid product, prep is everything. Exactly the reason some have problems with powdercoating.

Do you need an impervious hard coat on the frame that will last longer than other parts of the car? If so, then the expensive paints do the job, too, for more money.

The "trick" with Rustoleum is prep and sanding between coats, to get a smooth flat finish. It was originally dreamed up in the '90s as an alternative to $8,000 paint jobs requiring $1,000 worth of equipment to spray on liquid paint - with a 60% loss of the paint as it drifted into the air. With paint running $400 a gallon for red in the cheaper grades, you are spraying over half of it away with no application.

So, of course, the paint and body industry has a huge hate on over roll-on Rustoleum. They shouldn't - it still requires competent prep, bodywork, and sanding, and the results of poor work still telegraph the lack of professionalism. What micro thin layer of paint on top is really biased to the application technique more than being technically superior. It's mostly clear over just enough color these days anyway - another further complication.

I've used it, it works, so have hundreds of others, Hot Rod Magazine did an article on it which I feel is a fair review: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/body/hrdp_0707_1962_ford_falcon_budget_paint_job/

Painting the frame means prep, and there's a lot of it. It has to be degreased, cleaned, the welds dressed as much as needed, then some kind of primer applied to help the color coat stick. That's no different than any other application, and that's two details the average DIY will make mistakes doing. It's labor intensive - which is most of the expense in a custom paint job.

Paints that apply directly to bare steel have the primer adhesive ingredients already blended in, or use materials with that ability. I use rust prep spray on coatings, the ones that turn rust into a black inert layer. I've done bike frames, pool ladders, and the roof on my Cherokee, it works. The ladder was the most abusive situation, it soaked in a chlorinated pool six months of the year, and it only rusted where the tubing scraped the upper chine. Basically, it was scratched off - and any paint system will fail in that application.

Once the rust converter is applied, you might still see where there was some rust, which would be minimal after all the cleaning and dressing with a 3M grit pad. Nonetheless, it tackles that part of the job that would otherwise never be detected by blowing an opaque primer on the tubes - where other paints will eventually fail.

Mix the Rustoleum of your color choice - there's a choice, you don't have to live with black - 50/50 with mineral spirits. Fill a roller tray, with tubing, use a smooth foam roller about 2 inches wide sold at Big Box. Apply. It's the consistency of milk, go easy. If you choose to apply Rustoleum direct, that's ok, there would be no sanding or additional coats.

The 50/50 mix dries extremely fast, less than a day and it's rock hard. Straight Rustoleum may take up to a month - the solvent has to vaporize out of the drying film and it takes longer. Heat lamps won't hurt at all, a summer day with temps in the 90's helps a lot.

The result will be having a repairable coat of paint that is durable on the frame for less than $100. You be the judge.

My thoughts on Rustoleum mirror yours. I was going to sand blast, prime and roll. For well less then $100.00 (including the blast medium) I will have a coated frame that will be more then equal or better then the powder coated frames that are leaving F5R. Thx for posting Tirod, I was starting to rethink my position. Back on course.

[2bking]

I read on these forums about POR 15 and gave it a try. I did the marine wash and metal ready treatment. Its a very brittle finish and tough but it comes off fairly easily when bruised so I have a lot of touch up to do. If I were to use it again, I wouldn't use the metal ready treatment as it rusted the frame and left white deposits which produced a rough finish in the POR 15. The metal ready made the frame look outstanding until I rinsed it off. I actually spent a whole day trying different techniques to eliminate the white deposits and minimize the flash rust.

For the money spent on POR 15 I expected a much better result. The touch up is being done with Rustoleum and I'm thinking the cheaper way would have yielded a better finish. The next time I'll go with what I know.

[Frank818]

Very interesting information!

So for Rustoleum, and maybe a couple of others, prepping the frame, 50/50 mix with mineral spirits (no idea what that is), 1 coat with a roller, all that under $100 + few hours of work of my own.

[Frank818]

What do you think of Tremclad?
A friend of my mech says he paints zambonies and the metal underneath zamonies.

The funny part? It seems to be Rustoleum!
http://www.rustoleum.ca/CBGProduct.asp?pid=7

But is it the same as http://www.rustoleum.ca/CBGCategory.asp?cid=94?

Or it's just a different category of Rustoleum?

[maczter]

I am touching up spots in my powder coating recommended by my coater...it takes the powder, liquifies it, and it can be brushed or sprayed on then heated with a heat gun to cure. Works freakin' great.

https://www.powderbuythepound.com/LIQUID_2_POWDER_-1_PINT/

[WIS89]

I am touching up spots in my powder coating recommended by my coater...it takes the powder, liquifies it, and it can be brushed or sprayed on then heated with a heat gun to cure. Works freakin' great.

https://www.powderbuythepound.com/LIQUID_2_POWDER_-1_PINT/


Now THIS looks like an excellent solution for those necessary touch-ups!

Thanks for passing it along.

Regards,

Steve

[StatGSR]

What do you think of Tremclad?
A friend of my mech says he paints zambonies and the metal underneath zamonies.

The funny part? It seems to be Rustoleum!
http://www.rustoleum.ca/CBGProduct.asp?pid=7

But is it the same as http://www.rustoleum.ca/CBGCategory.asp?cid=94?

Or it's just a different category of Rustoleum?

Its just a different category/brand of rustoleum, and a different marketing name for a different country, The US does not see the Tremclad branding on any Rustoleum products.

[Scargo]

I am jumping in here because I have painted about every kind of paint there is, but most of that was 15 years ago. But, I painted for over 50 years (18 of that was at my prototyping business).
I recently went to an automotive paint supply store and bought a three-component paint system for painting my customized front bumper fascia. Not much has changed as far as I can tell.
For those who are happy with roll-on or brush-on paint jobs, please cover your eyes. If you think that you can short-cut proper prep work and use a rust inhibiting paint then don't read further. In my humble opinion, if it sprays out of a can it is not going to be very durable. If it is single component paint that you can thin and spray on, it can be slightly better with good prep work and a metal primer base coat. I have not dealt with Eastwood products but I'd think that if done correctly they could yield reasonable results.
None of these previous options will compare to Powder Coat on a clean frame. Industrial paint has been mentioned. Imron used to be the best thing going (next to the relatively new powder-coating), when I was active and I guess it still is used a lot on trucks, trains and planes. This requires a good gun, good ventilation and some skill. It is a polyurethane enamel. This requires a catalyst and reducer. It is harmful to breath it or get it on your skin. It is tough. It is a good alternative to powder coat.

[Frank818]

Scargo, in your opinion IMRON is ranked 1st, then powder coat 2nd, then stuff like Rustoleum with good metal prep/primer 3rd?

[metalmaker12]

Power coating period, it is very easy to apply using static electricity to attract powder to surface and the most durable compared to spray or roll painting.

[Frank818]

Power coating

Power coating yes, power. :)

[Scargo]

Scargo, in your opinion IMRON is ranked 1st, then powder coat 2nd, then stuff like Rustoleum with good metal prep/primer 3rd?
No... Powder coat first. I plan to have my frame done in powder coat once I'm finished modding it.

Second: Imron is kind of the industry standard. It is quite expensive. It is urethane. There are similar products like Sherwin-Williams Genesis, PPG's Delta line of paint and similar coatings, that are catalyzed. These come in a close second to powder-coating. I used to paint a lot of enclosures with S-W Polane T and it was tough (and you could get it in almost unlimited opaque colors and texture coat with it). Automotive enamels and clear-coats are a sub-class that are a step below for durability. This class of paint requires good safety measures above and beyond normal exposure to volatiles.

Trailing behind in a distant third: "Single component" coatings (thinner, accelerators, retarders or flex additives don't count as a "component"), like Rustoleum is in this category as are air dry enamels or anything in a rattle can.

I have not used POR-15. Some seem to swear by it. It is a single component system... sort of. It requires two coats and literature says "For externally exposed areas, topcoat with any POR-15 UV resistant topcoat to block from ultraviolet light." That sounds like a lot of work (and might leave it vulnerable if you skip it), but possibly not more work than a catalyzed base-coat and top-coat (clear-coat), system.

A caveat: I cannot know everything and all systems. I think my info is valid. There might be a super ceramic coating I have missed. ;) Really...
If paint added power then everything would be power coated!

[Frank818]

Hum, I'll rethink my approach, still got time though. loll
Tnx for the info Scargo!

[Quiny]

Let me ask of those who had ffr powdercoat their frame would you have them do it again? I did see one post that indicated no but I would love to hear from more of you. Like many others I have a while to wait on my kit. Thinking it was a no-brainer I did elect to have ffr powdercoat the frame but I have plenty of time to change my mind. I would really appreciate any input any of you have.

[wleehendrick]

Let me ask of those who had ffr powdercoat their frame would you have them do it again?

I have no issues with the PC on my frame, it looks identical to the small parts that I had done locally. Since I did not modify my frame, I'm glad I had FFR PC it.

[RM1SepEx]

my frames powder coating has several issues... several areas had prep issues and they don't sandblast and chemically clean the frame before PC and you HAVE TO to get it done right!

I'd POR 15 it if I were to do it again as modifications would be helpful too and I've ground, and welded a few areas already

[Jeff Kleiner]

Can't speak directly to the 818 yet but I've built 3 roadsters with FFR powder coating (actually they don't do it but have it performed by a local vendor). All looked good and are holding up well with oldest being from over 7 years ago. I'd expect similar on the 818.

Jeff

[metalmaker12]

It looks good and is holding up good, if you clean slag and scale from welds and metal tubing is clean and free of scale sand blasting is not really needed. Offcoarse sand blasting is preferred and they should offer it as an additional charge. I would have them do it again, but they should offer a sandblast.

[Frank818]

I never thought my simple question (simple to write, maybe not to answer lol) would generate so many replies, I am quite happy about that, gives me a much better understanding of the "metal painting" world. I'm sure it helps other people too. Let's continue to move on! :)

[Evan78]

Prepped properly, try zero prep.

My frame was pc'd over scaly rust. I don't need to mention how pissed I am. The last car I built was featured in a magazine, my GTM will be of the same quality. I can't even put a piece of tape on my frame without the pc coming off with the tape leaveing a big rusty spot.

FFR, why didn't you sandblast the damn frame????

I don't know what to do, just go with it. If I would have known I would have had them send it to me in rust, and I would have had it pc'd myself. Live and learn.Did you already contact FFR about this? What was the outcome? It seems to me that they either supplied the frame in worse condition than they normally do or someone dropped the ball at the powder coater. Either way, it sounds like the product you received is not their typical quality based on the experience of others in this thread. I would expect them to offer some kind of remedy such as compensation to have the job redone locally.