Air conditioning & heating?

[mike8082]

Hey Guys,

I'm thinking about purchasing an 818 kit within the next year or so. Do you know if there are any plans for a heating/air conditioning option? I live in the north east, it would be nice to have some heat during the spring time. Without either of these it kinda limits the time of year I could actually drive the car, without freezing or baking that is.

Thanks,
Mike

[Xusia]

Hi Mike, and welcome!

FFR has a heater/defroster solution in the works, though you could probably adapt the donor heating components without too much work.

A/C is another story. FFR has no stated plans that I am aware of. That leave trying to adapt the donor A/C (if your donor has it), or going aftermarket. I originally planning on reusing the donor components, but have been advised it's an overly complicated system. I haven't yet delved into is, so I don't know really know yet.

Hope that helps!

[mike8082]

Hey thanks for the quick reply! I noticed the dash doesn't have any room for vents. Would this option come with a modified dash for vents? I'd be more interested in the heat then the air conditioning, so that is decent news.

[AZPete]

Mike, I'm adding A/C and perhaps heat but, like Xusia, I'm not yet far enough along to know if I'll use the Subaru HVAC or Vintage Air. Heat is much easier and installing electric seat heaters is the easiest way of all. If you order an 818 now these hurdles will be cleared by the time you start a year from now.

[Xusia]

I plan to use the donor components, but since my car will be stored in a garage I don't particularly need the defroster vents so I may or may not put vents there - it all depends on how it all looks when I get there.

[tirod]

HVAC will be a much bigger concern once the hardtop is released. The Coupe owners address it a lot, even then not many actually keep cars running into the winter months.

Heated seats are often used, knowing mine will get warm in just 2-3 blocks from the house vs 2-3 miles for the heater means I'm getting used to them really quick (99 Forester.) They can be retrofitted.

One of the more important issues is just getting the cabin area sealed up tight to prevent air and rain coming in. With a open top roadster it's moot, a hardtop for daily driving, mandatory. It's one of the differences between coachbuilding a car vs. riveting a hot rod kit together.

[wleehendrick]

I'm adding A/C

I lived in Scottsdale for two years and commuted in my old GTI with no AC! ;) Although, in the heat I only drove it morning/evening and had covered parking at work, so wasn't too bad.

One thing to consider... In a small sealed cockpit, AC is just as valuable in cold weather to eliminate condensation on the interior glass. Heat alone takes too long and is much less effective.

For my 818 though, the only climate control I'm adding is heated seats. My wife has a convertible and we drive it top-down here year round. This is realistic in our climate, and with the top/windows down, a seat heater is more effective than forced air, since the heat goes directly to your back/butt, instead of blowing away!

I plan on a soft top, mostly for sun in summer. It rarely gets so hot here that the air temp is really uncomfortable, but baking in the sun can be brutal. So I doubt I'll use the side windows much, and I probably won't even install wipers, as our short rainy season is pretty predictable. RainX and and Antifog on the windshield in case I get caught!

[AZPete]

"I lived in Scottsdale for two years and commuted in my old GTI with no AC!"
Okay, so I'm a wimp. I know that already. I turned on the seat heaters in my DD yesterday when it was down to 62 degrees! Chilly!!
I'll buy the FFR soft top & windows to keep my cool A/C air in and I'll put seat heaters in the 818, too.
Pete, the Wimp.

[indiana818]

in my 818 i found a vintage air heater and am planning to install a heater only on those nights i stay late at car shows and go home in the cold. my buddy has a 32 ford 3 window and it gets cold w/o a heater even w/o windows it is ok - kerry

[Goldwing]

I'm planning A/C & Heat as well. It's something I'll tackle once I get a feel for available space. Using the donor harness will facilitate use of the donor system, but will it fit? Time will tell. By the time I get that far, I'm hoping to gain insight from others who blazed a trail ahead of me. But, that trailblazer may be me, lol. Seems the compressor and radiator components should be a no-brainer. I'm not sure where the pressure drop occurs after the radiator, and if the blower housing will fit, it's big, with servos and such for the various zones. Like the brakes in stock form, it'll be over-sized for the 818, but in an open top car, that overkill might be appreciated. It seems to me, especially if the system is overly complicated as stated above, reshaping or remaking the blower housing using existing componentry but dieting a zone or two, might be the simplest approach. Build a housing that fits, and simply plug electrics in after working out the unique plumbing. Plumbing for high and low pressure lines and for air ducts for the interior.

[svanlare]

In Northern California I'm in for a seat heaters for sure, and very likely a heater. The Vintage Air heater seems easy enough to work into the design. If it isn't too much work I would like to add A/C, but I'm a bit worried it will be more than I want to take on. I'm hoping to learn from the builds ahead of me how much trouble that is.
-Steve

[D K]

Dual climate control for mine

[AZPete]

Does anyone know if the 06 Subaru WRX compressor is a standard or variable displacement compressor? It makes a difference if I try an aftermarket system.
Thanks!

[bompus]

Time to resurrect this thread. I'm also in AZ and am planning on a soft top 818S. It get very hot in the summer months, so I'd like to do an A/C as well. I think seat heaters would be fine for what we call "winter" here in Tucson.

I've been looking at Vintage Air, Old Air, and Southern Air systems. If I do this, I'll likely use one of those universal systems to simplify things. I'm looking at both normal systems and underdash systems. If the OEM compressor wouldn't work or doesn't come with the donor, I'm assuming you could find a way to mount one of their provided compressors. I don't have the car yet, so I can't really measure and plan anything out, but I'm looking for suggestions.

I'm sure Pete would appreciate any advice here as well.

[mrprgrmr]

My plan is for heat, but no A/C in Massachusetts. Perhaps the February weather influenced my decision! I've found in that heat really extends the top-down driving season in New England. Just wear a warm jacket and aim the heat down.

Mainly, I just don't want to deal with the complexity and enviro issues of A/C. I trimmed up the A/C + alternator bracket this weekend to remove the A/C attachment points. I could say I did it to save weight (a little over 5 1/2 oz), but in reality I didn't want it to look like something was missing.

[bompus]

I'm thinking about this again and did some research. Vintage Air looks like the best option, but they frown upon variable displacement compressors which is what Subaru uses. I emailed FFR and am waiting on a response in regards to any planned A/C kit. I know the GTM has one, but it makes more sense because it is enclosed. With the 818, this only becomes a useful add-on if adding a soft/hard top.

I doubt Vintage Air has any compressor/mount that would bolt right onto my EJ20, so I'm kind of frustrated at what to do next as I really will need A/C in the hot Arizona heat with the soft top on.

Ideas/thoughts?

[K3LAG]

I'm looking at the Vintage Air Gen II Heater to get heat and defrost, but it's still pretty low on my list of things to do. The one thing I have figured out is that the heater control valve will have to be replaced with a 4-way one so that the coolant loop runs continuously.

Larry

[bompus]

Yeah.. I wish it was easier with just heat. I don't really care about heat/defrost but really do need the cold air.

[projectrally]

Heated seats add only ounces and buy you a lot of added comfort. The other thing is that the 818 is barely a car. It's really more of a motorcycle with seats. On a motorcycle, climate control is mostly a matter of wardrobe selection....

[RM1SepEx]

I bought seat heaters, I'm debating a very basic heater with a couple vents at the feet and some at the windshield...

[Jaime]

I need defrost to get mine on the road here in New York, so I'll be adding heat. The Subaru unit looks pretty big, so I'm not sure if I want to try to use it. I have to decide in the next few weeks and I was hoping I wouldn't be the first.

I'll probably take the donor unit apart and see if I can make a smaller box for just the heating part of it. If that doesn't work, there's a bunch of heat only units available for a few hundred dollars. As K3LAG mentioned, I'll need to get a proper water diverter. Something like this (http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15-5533-Heater-Shut-Valve/dp/B000C9DDIA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1A411HDXDG5AFXF6F2Q4) should do it.

31150

[K3LAG]

Something like this (http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15-5533-Heater-Shut-Valve/dp/B000C9DDIA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1A411HDXDG5AFXF6F2Q4) should do it.

31150

That is the right idea. That one is vacuum operated so you need to have an appropriate control for it. Here is an electric one: Heater Valve (http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/heater-cores/50-1555/heater-valve-p-3667.html)

Unfortunately it's a lot more expensive.

Larry

[wleehendrick]

Heated seats add only ounces and buy you a lot of added comfort. The other thing is that the 818 is barely a car. It's really more of a motorcycle with seats. On a motorcycle, climate control is mostly a matter of wardrobe selection....

Exactly... There's no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing!

I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread that all the climate control I'm adding is seat heaters (and agreed, an aftermarket kit adds a trivial amount of weight), and perhaps a bikini top for sun. My wife has a 135i convertible which we drive year-round top-down, just turn the seat heaters on when chilly. From my experience, in an open top car, seat heaters are more effective than blown air; if your head's cold, wear a hat. For those adding a top in hotter/colder climates, I understand wanting full HVAC, but I'm keeping mine simple, since that's all I need here.

[Jaime]

That is the right idea. That one is vacuum operated so you need to have an appropriate control for it. Here is an electric one: Heater Valve (http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/heater-cores/50-1555/heater-valve-p-3667.html)

Unfortunately it's a lot more expensive.

LarryVacuum solenoids are about ten bucks. I've heard that vacuum operated valves are more reliable.

[AZPete]

I tried hard to use the Subaru HVAC unit but it is so big that the assembly line must start with the HVAC unit and then they attach the car to it! I tried cutting the plastic case down but it still would not fit in front of the front firewall - I couldn't even get it into the front space without cutting frame bars. And, this unit still did not include the fan. I then considered using just the evaporator and heater core to build my own case but that's beyond my skill and frustration level. Here's the donor unit to show the relative size:
31155

I have installed the Vintage Air Mini Space Saver unit and it fits nicely under the dash. I have connected the heater lines but I have not yet bought and installed the AC lines. I've mounted the Vintage Air condenser, heater hoses and heater control valve. The heater works - just in time for the 100-degree days in the AZ desert!! I'm going to use the donor compressor after I get the new AC lines welded to the donor fittings, at least that's the plan. And, I've got 4 dash vents from Vintage Air that I'll put into the dash.
31156

31157

Regarding the heater control valve, Vintage Air says their valve closes off the circuit completely when the heater is off. The Subaru engine needs circulation, thus the U-shaped hose from FFR, so I plumbed a diverter between the heater hoses before the control valve and included a bleeder valve which helped bleeding the system.
Next step? Buy and install the AC hoses, fittings, etc. keeping my fingers crossed that the donor compressor will work.

[JeromeS13]

and perhaps a bikini top for sun.

That's what I'm waiting for!

[07FIREBLADE]

I hope this works out so others can copy.

[bbjones121]

Great work AZPete! Can't wait to see what you have when it is all done.

[bompus]

Pete,

I looked around Vintage Air's site and they seem to frown upon (link (http://www.vintageair.com/2013catalog/2013%20VintageAir%20Catalog%20Webpgs%206.pdf)) the type of compressor (Variable Displacement) that the Subaru donor uses. It doesn't say that it won't work though, just that it will never work optimally and could lead to compressor failure. I'd be thrilled if your system works good in the Arizona heat and I'll copy what you have done.

I'll put this feeler out here for our fabricators: Does anybody want to make an A/C compressor mount which accepts the Sanden 508 compressor used and recommended by Vintage Air? I found several universal brackets that involve some fabrication which I am no good at... anybody want to take a shot at doing this? My sources for mounts are below:

Source 1 (http://www.extremeoutback.com/product/86/Sanden+V-Belt+Universal+Mounting+Bracket++Part%23+006-007.html)
Source 2 (http://www.vintageair.com/08/catalog08/08%20VA%20Cat%20pg%2063%20f.pdf) - Universal Compressor Bracket
Source 3 (http://www.apairinc.com/detail.asp?Part=995-436) - Is the Subaru donor compressor an A6 mount? If not, what is it?
Source 4 (http://www.autofrost.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=45&products_id=260)

Hope that helps.. and good luck AZPete!

[svanlare]

Definitely wanting to learn from watching and then go down the same path.

[AZPete]

Good research, Aaron. I've been in NYC for the last week so no progress, but I'll do more on the AC soon.

[Wayne Presley]

Why can't you use the stock compressor? If you have the ends of the AC lines you can reuse them. You are going to have to have custom lines to get to the front anyway.

[bompus]

I'm not sure. The stock compressor didn't come with my motor so I contacted Vintage Air to see if I bought a used stock compressor, if it would work with their system and they very sternly said that using a variable displacement compressor (which the OEM is) would fight against how their system works with there being two points trying to fight for control without communicating with each other. So I went researching the Sanden compressors but need to find a way to mount them -or- just buy a used OEM compressor and hook it up and see how it goes. As you said, either way we'll have to run custom lines to the front.


Why can't you use the stock compressor? If you have the ends of the AC lines you can reuse them. You are going to have to have custom lines to get to the front anyway.

[Mechie3]

If someone gets me a cad model or a sanden compressor i can see what it would take to get a mount fabricated.

[07FIREBLADE]

This might be able to be arranged. Another Zero Decibel part.

[Wayne Presley]

Bompus, I'll send you a stock compressor if you want one for the cost of shipping.

[07FIREBLADE]

Any updates on possible getting this working yet?

[bbjones121]

Anything on this? I am about here on my build.

[AZPete]

I regret that I still have not charged my A/C system so I can't say it works . . . yet. I've got the Vintage Air system all plumbed and wired and the next step is to have an A/C shop leak-check and charge it. I've been working on the interior and I've got the A/C controls fitted into the console and vents cut into the dash. I need to finish some other stuff, get it licensed (easy in AZ) and then take it to an A/C shop. Oh, and I need to find more time in the garage but going to Colorado mountains tomorrow for a while. This kind of stuff happens when there's no schedule.

[RogerB]

Wow, thaat Subaru HVAC unit is huge... Interesting to see how the Vintage unit works.

[bbjones121]

I regret that I still have not charged my A/C system so I can't say it works . . . yet. I've got the Vintage Air system all plumbed and wired and the next step is to have an A/C shop leak-check and charge it. I've been working on the interior and I've got the A/C controls fitted into the console and vents cut into the dash. I need to finish some other stuff, get it licensed (easy in AZ) and then take it to an A/C shop. Oh, and I need to find more time in the garage but going to Colorado mountains tomorrow for a while. This kind of stuff happens when there's no schedule.

Nice. Almost there. Any pics?

[bbjones121]

Does anyone know if there will be enough cooling for an AC radiator, engine radiator, and AWIC radiator in the front of the car?

[07FIREBLADE]

I'm using a total of 3 fans for my setup. The 2 main fans for the radiator. One of which will be ran to a manual switch and a single fan for the ac condenser. 2 pull and 1 push setup. My setup from front to back is ac condenser, awic radiator, engine radiator.

[CNC_Geek]

I am early in the build stage but it is my plan to have heat and AC. I have been leaning towards the old air products. If someone has completed their system and like the way it fits I would certainly be interested in knowing more. I am expecting to mount the evaporator in front of the firewall but won't know just how much room is available until I am close to finished. I also expect to route the lines through the tunnel with most of my electrical threaded below the doors. Any thoughts?

[bompus]

AZPete,

How did you plumb your A/C? I'm thinking that I'll need some custom hoses made to go from the factory Subaru A/C compressor to the front bay. Did you have custom hoses made, do it yourself?

[07FIREBLADE]

Custom hoses are a must, I took mine to the local AC shop and they were able to make them for me. Took my stock hoses chopped them up, welded on some barbs for me. I went home with the new ends and bulk hose and measured and mocked them up. Took them back and they crimped them for me.

[AZPete]

Aaron, first I must admit that due to distractions like work and fun trips, I have not yet had my HVAC system leak-checked and charged. The A/C system is plumbed with the Vintage Air EZ Clip hose system since everything except the compressor is Vintage Air. To connect to the Subaru compressor I bought an EZ Clip #8 tube (#347181-VUR) and #10 tube (347301-VUR) then had them welded to the two donor tubes that connect to the compressor. I ran both A/C hoses below the right side door and the two heater hoses under the left side door. My power steering hoses also run under the right side door. I feel bad that I have not tested the system and got the A/C running but I plan to kick my butt if I can figure out how to do that.

[Harley818]

Aaron, first I must admit that due to distractions like work and fun trips, I have not yet had my HVAC system leak-checked and charged. The A/C system is plumbed with the Vintage Air EZ Clip hose system since everything except the compressor is Vintage Air. To connect to the Subaru compressor I bought an EZ Clip #8 tube (#347181-VUR) and #10 tube (347301-VUR) then had them welded to the two donor tubes that connect to the compressor. I ran both A/C hoses below the right side door and the two heater hoses under the left side door. My power steering hoses also run under the right side door. I feel bad that I have not tested the system and got the A/C running but I plan to kick my butt if I can figure out how to do that.


Any updates Pete?
Hopefully someone has installed a heater so far?
Where did you tap into the coolant lines or did you go back to the stock locations on the engine?

[AZPete]

Harley, I have not yet charged the A/C but in Vancouver I think you just need heat, right? I was in Vancouver last August and it was beautiful and not hot. I installed a Vintage Air unit that has heat and air conditioning so you can easily install just a heater from Vintage or other sources. I've got two heater hoses (5/8"?) from the stock locations on the engine forward along the left side, across above the battery, to the heater core mounted above the passenger foot box. A heater control valve closes the line into the heater core when I turn the heat off, but the engine needs some flow between the lines which is why FFR sends a u-shaped hose. For this reason, I put 2 "T" connectors in the heater hoses and connected them with a short tube so water would circulate even with the heater off. To enable bleeding the heater lines I installed a bleeder valve in the short connecting tube and it is as high as possible in front of the dash so it functions nicely to bleed the entire cooling system. My cooling system bled easily from this bleeder but I also did Wayne's coolant port modification. If this isn't clear I can come next summer and install your heater for only the cost of air fare, hotel, meals and beer. ;)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/heater%20bypass%20bleeder%2075.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/heater%20bypass%20bleeder%2075.jpg.html)

[Harley818]

Hi Pete,
Did you use a two way valve with the heater control so that when you shut off the heater it opens the flow through the T connection to bypass the heater or do you have to change it manually?
From what you said, if you don't stop the flow through the bypass when the heater is on, wouldn't the flow always take the path of least resistance through the T bypass rather than go through the heater?
thanks for the detail.

[AZPete]

Harley, my heater control valve doesn't know there is a bypass so it just opens when I turn the heat knob. I agree with you that the water takes the path of least resistance but there seems to be enough flow that the heater puts out hot air when turned on. Maybe in the Yukon it would be a problem but here in the Arizona desert I use the heater when it gets down to 60 F and we never see ice, other than in a margarita. It might be a good idea to make the bypass a little smaller than the heater hoses so more flow would be through the heater, yet some would recirculate when the heater control valve is off.

[Harley818]

I'm thinking I'm going to need a little more heat than you up here.
Usually when I leave the igloo we just top off the margarita with a little more tequila to keep it from freezing. :)

I've been known to drive with the top down all winter here.... and when it gets to around 32F, the heater needs to be good.
I'm going to see if I can find a two way valve to help me out. I don't really want to restrict that engine flow especially with the long heater coolant lines.

[AZPete]

MY A/C WORKS!!
This morning I had the Vintage Air system leak-checked (no leaks!) and charged. Since 've never worked on air conditioning before, and think it works by voodoo magic, I'm amazed that it blows cold! The only problem is that the radiator fans must turn on with the A/C. The donor ECU turns the fans on when the engine is warm enough so now I have to find a way to connect the A/C system somehow so the fans turn on. I think that's solvable so I'm pleased to report that the Vintage Air system works with the donor compressor.
Here's what I installed from Vintage Air:
Mini Space Saver HVAC unit under dash (passenger side), 14x24 condenser, drier w/ binary switch, heater servo refit kit, 4 louvers in dash, EZ Clip hoses (#6, 8 & 10) and two U Bend Em tubes with ports. I had the U Bend Em tubes welded to the donor tubes that connect to the compressor.

[bompus]

YAY! Something else for me to buy :) You mentioned a heater servo refit kit.. what is that? You don't really need heat in AZ, so is that just to bypass it or something? Interested in what the U Bend Em + donor tube connection looks like, since I'll have to do the same. Worried about hoses being long enough, much better than too short.

[bbjones121]

MY A/C WORKS!!
This morning I had the Vintage Air system leak-checked (no leaks!) and charged. Since 've never worked on air conditioning before, and think it works by voodoo magic, I'm amazed that it blows cold! The only problem is that the radiator fans must turn on with the A/C. The donor ECU turns the fans on when the engine is warm enough so now I have to find a way to connect the A/C system somehow so the fans turn on. I think that's solvable so I'm pleased to report that the Vintage Air system works with the donor compressor.
Here's what I installed from Vintage Air:
Mini Space Saver HVAC unit under dash (passenger side), 14x24 condenser, drier w/ binary switch, heater servo refit kit, 4 louvers in dash, EZ Clip hoses (#6, 8 & 10) and two U Bend Em tubes with ports. I had the U Bend Em tubes welded to the donor tubes that connect to the compressor.

Great to hear. I am going through this. I am connecting into the ecu. Pin C23 needs 12v+ when AC is on.

[AZPete]

Aaron, the heater servo kit shuts off the coolant to the heater but that's a problem since the Subaru engine needs flow of the heater lines, thus the u-shaped hose from FFR. I rigged a bypass line to keep flow going but a better way is the heater bypass valve from My Race Shop: (thanks Jim for this!)
http://www.myraceshop.com/Heater_Bypass_Valve.html
The EZ Clip hose system from Vintage Air allows you to cut and crimp the hoses so you'll have an exact fit.
If you PM me your email address I can send you a pdf with more details.
Pete

[AZPete]

I just discovered that the Subaru compressor will work well with the Vintage Air system! I had previously been told by VA that the variable displacement Subaru compressor would cause problems and the VA system needs a fixed displacement compressor. However, I found that in the factory service manual the donor compressor is listed as "vane rotary, fix volume", which sounds to me like fixed displacement, not variable. I explained this to Vintage Air tech support and they agreed that the Subaru compressor is fixed displacement that will work well with their system. Bullet dodged, money and grief saved.

[AZPete]

For anyone thinking about A/C in an 818, the first thought is how it will look in such a small cockpit. The Vintage Air Mini Space Saver HVAC unit fits nicely under the dash. In this photo you can barely see the roundish black part below the dash. There is plenty of room for the passenger's feet and my glove box above it is 11"W x 4"H x 6" deep. I spent about $1,800 but that includes a few pioneering mistakes, so your AC will be less.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/Interior%2075.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/Interior%2075.jpg.html)

[bbjones121]

For anyone thinking about A/C in an 818, the first thought is how it will look in such a small cockpit. The Vintage Air Mini Space Saver HVAC unit fits nicely under the dash. In this photo you can barely see the roundish black part below the dash. There is plenty of room for the passenger's feet and my glove box above it is 11"W x 4"H x 6" deep. I spent about $1,800 but that includes a few pioneering mistakes, so your AC will be less.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/Interior%2075.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/Interior%2075.jpg.html)

Thanks for finally showing a pic of your interior!!! It looks amazing!

[snowphun]

MY A/C WORKS!!

This is encouraging, the comfort range in a car like this is too small without AC. Will be curious to hear how it stands up to proper heat, maybe in slow traffic. My Elise was an oven and the AC could not cope when traffic slowed in the sun.

[Harley818]

Thought I would post my heater installation.
Its a Vintage Air Gen II heater. No A/C.
It has temp control, 3 fan speeds, and defrost vs heater control.

Fits nicely behind the console with the top peaking above the framing below the dash.
5614356145

[2RR2NV]

It might be a little weird, but how about buying heated gear besides the heated seats? I wear heated gear on my motorcycle and IF I crank it, I'm sweating even in the 20's. In a car where most of the wind is going around you and not at you, I bet heated seats and heated gear would be the shiz. Install a 12v outlet for driver and passenger, plug in heated gear, crank up the seats, and I bet you would be grinning the whole time.

just a thought. Being up here in SD, I ride year round, so I have had plenty of chances to try out different clothes options for different weather. I have my Wife to thank for heated gear. She was getting tired of me giving her a nice FRIGID hug after coming home form work when it was in the 30's. LOL

[Harley818]

Heated seats for sure, but here in Vancouver it doesn't get that cold, and as long as you have a good heater cranking out heat, it usually works great to keep a nice warm interior (with jacket)..My wife has a heated vest that she would probably use.

[FFRSpec72]

go raw, no ac, no ps, no pb, no heat,

[Buzz Skyline]

go raw, no ac, no ps, no pb, no heat,

Yes! Although, to be fair, sitting with my back to the fire wall means I have heat all year round.

[ben1272]

Well, I have been warned to install heat and A/C from the start versus later, but I am going to put off HVAC until after I have the car running. I expect to be pulling engine, replacing clutch, probably replacing my cracked turbo, and doing an all around eyes on check of everything this winter, hopefully after I have been able to run her in a little in go-kart mode. We'll see how it goes! I tell myself it will be a good winter project.....