View Full Version : The official "What is Dave hinting at?" thread
PhyrraM
03-22-2011, 08:33 PM
OK, I suggested this thread simply as a joke. But then I read on the 818 section on the main FFR site this line:
Production Target Dates 2012-2013
Why the range instead of a more traditional (single) launch date?
So, are Dave, Jim and FFR planning on using CAD, CAM, and rapid prototyping techniques to make a series of cheap-and-fast, but not very durable molds? Does this mean that the 818 will have many "limited edition" bodies throughout the life of the chassis? Has Dave found a way to get more of our hard earned money every few years?
To Dave: This is not the place for you to spill the beans, nor is it intended as such.
To All: Let's have fun with this thread, but try not to put words in FFRs mouths.
David Hodgkins
03-22-2011, 08:39 PM
The Manx is back!!
You heard it here first.
:D
riptide motorsport
03-22-2011, 09:09 PM
wow..definitly overthinking things aren't we?
PhyrraM
03-22-2011, 09:18 PM
wow..definitly overthinking things aren't we?
Probably. But it's all just wasting time until SEMA. Might as well layout a thread specifically for speculation.
Besides, I hope to keep the thread light and fun.
thebeerbaron
03-22-2011, 09:45 PM
When he heard that the 818 had to be Wookie-compatible, Jim went a little out-there with the design...
http://www.brianstoys.com/store/images/products/Star%20Wars/MasterReplica/Props/MR_FALCON_IMAGE_ONE.jpg
We know it's Wookie-approved, and apparently it's fast too...
Gollum
03-22-2011, 10:02 PM
When he heard that the 818 had to be Wookie-compatible, Jim went a little out-there with the design...
http://www.brianstoys.com/store/images/products/Star%20Wars/MasterReplica/Props/MR_FALCON_IMAGE_ONE.jpg
We know it's Wookie-approved, and apparently it's fast too...
Yea, when it decides to cooperate. Those turbos can be damned pesky items.
PhyrraM
03-22-2011, 10:04 PM
And even at "Wookie compatable" a few bangs on the head still seem to happen.
kach22i
03-23-2011, 04:35 AM
Funny stuff.
Olimk2
03-23-2011, 04:43 AM
Would like to know what is this "truck idea"? A sport pick up? Vintage replica?
Gun Bunny
03-23-2011, 05:01 AM
When he heard that the 818 had to be Wookie-compatible, Jim went a little out-there with the design...
http://www.brianstoys.com/store/images/products/Star%20Wars/MasterReplica/Props/MR_FALCON_IMAGE_ONE.jpg
We know it's Wookie-approved, and apparently it's fast too...
I've always wanted a car that can make the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs...
But seriously, I think the flexible date is to give them wiggle room for unforeseen delays (witness the incessant *****-storm when the Mendeola box for the GTM got delayed a few months)
As for what he was hinting at in the other thread, I'm intrigued. Hopefully it's something paradigm shifting for the entire auto industry, but that would be an uphill fight to say the least.
Then again, that's why most of us hopeless dreamers are here, isn't it?
Benji
03-23-2011, 06:19 AM
Would like to know what is this "truck idea"? A sport pick up? Vintage replica?
Ditto, when I move to San Antonio, TX I want two cars, both of them kits:
Sports car = 818?
Truck/off road = ?
Dave needs to fill this slot :D
Everyone seems to have both types available to use in SATX and whilst the Local Motors Rally Fighter is lovely, it's really quite expensive. Lights hope Dave has a classic kit car pick up as I don't think anyone else caters for this.
Hopefully this thread WILL put Dave over the top to spill some beans. :D
slopoke
03-23-2011, 08:12 AM
smart money is on a universal platform with interchangable cosmetics ... can I buy a chasssis?
slopoke
03-23-2011, 08:16 AM
morph-o-matic
Doc_FFR
03-23-2011, 08:20 AM
I thought the prototype was supposed to be ready for the SEMA show in Vegas on November 1st.
bromikl
03-23-2011, 09:58 AM
Multiple bodies gets my bet.
Want a 918 roadster? You bet.
Exo? We got ya (un)-covered.
MP-12 look-alike? Can do.
Exige clone? Right this way.
Rear-engine two-seat 280Hp turbocharged Volvo? You need help. :D
Curious, the legal dept. has something to say on the subject. Maybe to avoid copyright infringement, if a buyer submits a design and F5 produces it, there's no case? Hmmmm. That would open some possibilities, wouldn't it?
Rotr8
03-23-2011, 10:03 AM
Multiple bodies gets my bet.
Curious, the legal dept. has something to say on the subject. Maybe to avoid copyright infringement, if a buyer submits a design and F5 produces it, there's no case? Hmmmm. That would open some possibilities, wouldn't it?
yup, no legal recourse at all, no design ownership, well FFR ownership.
mn_vette
03-23-2011, 11:13 AM
morph-o-matic
go-go-gadget sports car!
My theory is the multipe bodies as well. Perhaps I'll get one in each color to match my shirt that day.
Oppenheimer
03-23-2011, 11:33 AM
Actually, the gel-coat is going to use a technology similar to liquid crystal displays. You'd be able to change the color of the car electronically at will (or, say, watch a movie).
The Cameleon
PhyrraM
03-23-2011, 12:18 PM
Actually, the gel-coat is going to use a technology similar to liquid crystal displays. You'd be able to change the color of the car electronically at will (or, say, watch a movie).
The Cameleon
Nice! That has to be it.
But I don't think Dave is stopping there. The glass will also have this tech. Instant, on-demand, Limo tints.
Gollum
03-23-2011, 12:24 PM
You guys are going the wrong direction. The windshield is going to have a digital screen in it, but it'll be so you can play gran turismo on it before you're finished building. So instead of looking like an idiot making engine noises in not-even-a-go-kart we can look like uber nerds taking our games way too seriously.
http://thepoptopshop.com/osc/images/Beachcomber.JPG
Along with multiple body’s lets add different types of power i.e.. diesel and or electric :)
Oppenheimer
03-23-2011, 01:46 PM
Along with multiple body’s lets add different types of power i.e.. diesel and or electric :)
Don't laugh, Dave has actually stated that multiple bodies as well as multiple power plants, including VW, which would include TDI, are possible in the 818's future.
Oppenheimer
03-23-2011, 01:47 PM
http://thepoptopshop.com/osc/images/Beachcomber.JPG
The FFR 818, More than Meets the Eye...
sub322
03-23-2011, 02:37 PM
I like to go to Carlisle for the Kit & Imports in May. FFR always has a big display there,
will we be lucky enough to maybe see a roller with the engine in it? That would be cool.
PhyrraM
03-23-2011, 03:19 PM
.....will we be lucky enough to maybe see a roller with the engine in it? That would be cool.
+1. Take a camera. please.
I am hoping that details of the chassis and drivetrain will be fairly forthcoming during the design phase. If not, it's a long way until SEMA for our minds to run rampant with speculation.
thebeerbaron
03-23-2011, 04:19 PM
I believe the go-kart will be presented at the Open House, which is June 11th IIRC. At least I think that's the hope/goal/dream.
GS guy
03-23-2011, 04:33 PM
Bummer - Carlisle is May 21. Maybe we'll get a sneak peek???? :)
PhyrraM
03-24-2011, 12:27 AM
OK, more speculation.
The new glass '65 coupe hatch is offered at $399 to existing customers which is stated as "just above our costs". That means that a smaller, more reasonable rear window CAN be done on the 818 if other costs are controlled. ;)
OK, back to our normally scheduled sillyness and debates.......:p
Gun Bunny
03-24-2011, 03:16 AM
Hmm, random awesome (yet baseless) speculation?
How about they need the extra time to get the engineering perfect, because the 818 will be their first aluminum chassis?
Allows them to meet weight goal (in spades), is now nearly impervious to corrosion (galvanic or otherwise), which would fit in nicely with a from-day-one hard top option.
Hmm, random awesome (yet baseless) speculation?
How about they need the extra time to get the engineering perfect, because the 818 will be their first aluminum chassis?
Allows them to meet weight goal (in spades), is now nearly impervious to corrosion (galvanic or otherwise), which would fit in nicely with a from-day-one hard top option.
I hope they don't do this. The weight savings are minimal for an equally strong chassis, the welded structure would need to be stress relieved in an oven which means you can't weld on it later without stress relieving again, more expensive. Not worth it in my mind. There is a reason race cars don't have aluminum tube frames.
sub322
03-24-2011, 01:17 PM
[QUOTE=PhyrraM;12251]+1. Take a camera. please.
I will be sure to take the camera with me.
Benji
03-25-2011, 05:49 AM
I hope they don't do this. The weight savings are minimal for an equally strong chassis, the welded structure would need to be stress relieved in an oven which means you can't weld on it later without stress relieving again, more expensive. Not worth it in my mind. There is a reason race cars don't have aluminum tube frames.
Perhaps he meant aluminium monocoque?
PhyrraM
03-25-2011, 12:54 PM
All the modern aluminum cars are glued together. From the Elise's extruded structure to the Audi and Jaguar unibodies. all glued. To my knowledge, there is no high welding-like heat introduced. Only a low temp bake (~250 degrees) to cure the epoxy.
Justen
03-25-2011, 03:22 PM
Electric would be a nice alternative too, but i would have to build 2 cuz i would still want one with a turbo. I cant wait to see the go-kart at the open house, ill def be there with a camera
MDRex
03-25-2011, 04:35 PM
I'm hoping they have it on display when I visit in July. Going to be in Boston for a family wedding, great time to visit the shop.
AJ Roadster NJ
03-25-2011, 05:33 PM
I whispered in Dave's ear at the open house...Jag D type. Given my persuasive personality, I'm thinking he's in the process of lining up hundreds of donor Jag straight 6's. Yeah, that's it.
Gun Bunny
03-25-2011, 08:29 PM
Perhaps he meant aluminium monocoque?
What he said, that was posted at three in the morning...
MDRex
03-25-2011, 11:36 PM
Perhaps he meant aluminium monocoque?
The only issue I see with that is that they did post a drawing of what they say is the frame, which is nothing like a monocoque.
Gollum
03-26-2011, 12:34 AM
I highly doubt FFR will be going outside of their tried and true tube chassis design which has loads of benefits, especially since FFR has found their ways to make it affordable and consistent. Many tube chassis out there can be really expensive, and really poorly made on the two extremes. FFR does it well, let them keep at it. ;-)
Bill_H
03-26-2011, 11:58 AM
I heard FFR negotiated to buy the assets of the now-defunct USF1 team. They will re-launch the F1 team and the technology will gradually flow down into their product line. All of the talk of a "Subaru" engine is really just a ruse to throw people off of their intentions to use a 1.6L 4 cylinder turbo as will be mandated by the FIA for the 2013 Formula 1 season. The no-paint panels that have been discussed are just a fortunate byproduct of the carbon fiber development they have been doing for the race program.
... and then I woke up
Rotr8
03-26-2011, 12:12 PM
^^^^lol holy Sh** that would be awesome,,,
Hondaslayer
03-26-2011, 12:17 PM
I heard FFR negotiated to buy the assets of the now-defunct USF1 team. They will re-launch the F1 team and the technology will gradually flow down into their product line. All of the talk of a "Subaru" engine is really just a ruse to throw people off of their intentions to use a 1.6L 4 cylinder turbo as will be mandated by the FIA for the 2013 Formula 1 season. The no-paint panels that have been discussed are just a fortunate byproduct of the carbon fiber development they have been doing for the race program.
... and then I woke up
Already been done, perhaps Dave is hinting at using the Coloni C3B engine............
http://www.iwoc.co.uk/subf1.html
Benji
03-26-2011, 02:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukeHdiszZmE
Gollum
04-07-2011, 01:49 PM
Hmmmmm you guys are very smart. I admit nothing, but keep in mind there is a tremendous variety of submissions.
What??? Maybe some of you guys were right about the multiple body idea....
Niburu
05-06-2011, 09:34 AM
I can see down the road with some more experience with the Subaru mechanicals another vehicle, using the full drivetrain.
It's one of the few things missing from the FFR arsenal, a full blown rally car.
It would be lighter, faster, and stronger than the WRX it's pulled from - also most assuredly better looking.
readymix
05-06-2011, 10:21 AM
I can see down the road with some more experience with the Subaru mechanicals another vehicle, using the full drivetrain.
It's one of the few things missing from the FFR arsenal, a full blown rally car.
It would be lighter, faster, and stronger than the WRX it's pulled from - also most assuredly better looking.
Meh. Most rally cars in use today are prepped vehicles anyway that differ significantly from the production vehicle they are derived from. Since each rally spec car would have to be built from scratch, your R&D costs are going to go way up. Rally works best when you start with a platform and modify it for the purpose. And what class would you intend to run in? WRC is going to s2000 specs and that will require the car to have a 2.0L naturally aspirated 4 cylinder and AWD is allowed. Subaru has pulled itself from WRC. And any car built to compete in WRC needs to have 2500 manufactured examples built per year. I don't know what Factory Five's production numbers are per model, but I don't think they are cranking out 2500 of each per year.
Oppenheimer
05-06-2011, 10:55 AM
I think he may have been thinking of a street going 'Rally Inspired' offering, not an actual Rally competition vehicle. That would be quite cool indeed. I saw someone posted a link to a UK kit that is just that, a small, light, open top roadster that uses the full AWD WRX drivetrain (engine in front, etc). It looks like it would be quite the monster.
I'd love to see FFR do something like that next, but with a Rally looking body, not a sportscar (they've already got sportscar pretty well covered). Something alongthe lines of this: (which, btw, why aren't we seeing more weekly winners like this, all the cars that won so far are looking similar to each other)
1599
readymix
05-06-2011, 10:58 AM
I know the car you speak of. I forget who makes it. But it's a roadster type car with full WRX engine/tranny/driveline components. Neat idea. But I always thought the body on it looked kindof off.
Olimk2
05-06-2011, 12:34 PM
It's the Murtaya ...
Niburu
05-06-2011, 12:41 PM
I think he may have been thinking of a street going 'Rally Inspired' offering, not an actual Rally competition vehicle.
This, but also have it be easily upgradable to do some offroading - beaches, desert sand dunes, mountain roads.
readymix
05-06-2011, 12:58 PM
It's the Murtaya ...
That's the one.
mn_vette
05-06-2011, 01:56 PM
The Murtaya now has a distributor in the USA, but the kit cost is somewhere in the $30k region last time I checked.
I think he may have been thinking of a street going 'Rally Inspired' offering, not an actual Rally competition vehicle. That would be quite cool indeed. I saw someone posted a link to a UK kit that is just that, a small, light, open top roadster that uses the full AWD WRX drivetrain (engine in front, etc). It looks like it would be quite the monster.
I'd love to see FFR do something like that next, but with a Rally looking body, not a sportscar (they've already got sportscar pretty well covered). Something alongthe lines of this: (which, btw, why aren't we seeing more weekly winners like this, all the cars that won so far are looking similar to each other)
1599
To me this looks like a wrx wagon with a body kit. Why wouldn't you just buy a wagon and customize it to fit your needs? Strip it/hotrod it/lift it/ custom body, drive like you stole it.
bromikl
05-06-2011, 02:27 PM
The Murtaya now has a distributor in the USA, but the kit cost is somewhere in the $30k region last time I checked.
All-wheel drive, though. That's awfully inviting. With 300+ Hp in a lightweight car, it's almost essential. If it were possible, I'd build a mid-engine all wheel drive tube-frame car with a removable roof.
Olimk2
05-06-2011, 03:28 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/3459589415_779ab83cf8_b.jpg
^exactly what I was talking about^
Oppenheimer
05-08-2011, 07:34 PM
To me this looks like a wrx wagon with a body kit. Why wouldn't you just buy a wagon and customize it to fit your needs? Strip it/hotrod it/lift it/ custom body, drive like you stole it.
That drawing was just someone's 818 rendering that was posted here. I was using it to illustrate the concept (more rally, less sportscar). The difference to an actual WRX would be weight, FFR designed race chassis. If FFR did a kit like this, it wouldn't just be a WRX with a new body (like all their kits).
We aren't interested in the 818 just because of its looks, right? (especially since we don't know what it'll look like yet) Its the performance potential, you get to build it yourself, your way. Same deal with the concept of a rally styled AWD FFR. Think of the performance potential of an AWD, Subaru powered, FFR chassis, rally inspired kit, that was around 1K lbs less than a Rex.
Niburu
05-25-2011, 01:06 PM
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?338-Open-Design-Discussion-and-What-s-NEXT!/page39
yeah, i'll tip our hand on a few things about the car (drivetrain, chassis rigidity, design flexibility, use, expanded goals, etc) before open house, but i dont want to interfere with the purity of the design contest so it'll be a bit.
what!! expanded goals you say hmmmm......
PhyrraM
05-25-2011, 03:54 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/5759226605_6d888e3c08_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5759226605/)
2KWIK4U
05-25-2011, 04:59 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/5759226605_6d888e3c08_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5759226605/)
OMG, That is hilarious!
Dave Smith
05-25-2011, 05:04 PM
At the Univ of Wisconsin there was an inscription above the athletic dept stairway that led out onto the field at Camp Randall...
" a man's reach should exceed his grasp"
The goals of the car are already lofty. Sub 10 grand kit price, REAL complete car price under 15 grand, 1800 lbs., if that was it we would have our work cut out for us... Still, if we can take everything we've learned in 15 years, leverage the strengths of our really great suppliers and partner companies, and think in truly unique ways with the richness of our passionate and talented customer base.... I have some ideas for the design that should ensure our reach indeed exceeds our grasp. When we launch this car is will be met with a people who see it and say, " THAT is cool" I MUST have one!
Factory Five exists for a reason far greater than making money (good thing for that the last few years!) and this car has to satisfy that prupose.
Dave Smith
05-25-2011, 05:05 PM
The chassis will be on display at Open House.
2KWIK4U
05-26-2011, 10:36 AM
The chassis will be on display at Open House.
I will be waiting right here for the press release.................... or for any more hints you want to give your faithful following Dave! :)
agepag
05-26-2011, 12:36 PM
The chassis will be on display at Open House.
Please, sombody post pics! My wife is due June 8th with our third child, I asked if I could go, but the 9 hour drive from Toronto didn't sit to well with her, so I will be on the computer waiting for updates!!!!
Magnus
05-26-2011, 03:01 PM
Please, sombody post pics! My wife is due June 8th with our third child, I asked if I could go, but the 9 hour drive from Toronto didn't sit to well with her, so I will be on the computer waiting for updates!!!!
Or you could have the child delivered at Open House. I'm sure there will be a doctor or veterinarian in attendance.
FFRWRX
05-26-2011, 05:25 PM
Or you could have the child delivered at Open House. I'm sure there will be a doctor or veterinarian in attendance.
And name him/her "818". Talk about stealing the thunder from the new car introduction!