Question regarding aluminum panels, interesting tool

[dwginde]

Hi all, My 818 is going to be ready for shipment very soon. I'm excited to say the least!!
I've dismantled my donor (2002 WRX) and have a space waiting in my shop. I've reviewed
most of the posts regarding the 818. I'm very impressed with the skills shown by us
average "joes" Ive noticed that except for the wiring harness; the biggest difficulty seems to
be riveting all those aluminum panels!! Question: Is there a reason that automotive adhesive
wouldn't work?? After all, manufactures, body shops etc. "glue" panels on all the time! Maybe I'm
missing something but these panels are not particularly "structural" panels. They may add stiffness
but I think adhesive may work
If not, I have found a neat tool on Northern Tools website Its a accordion
style spacer that's used to space rivets equidistant.
Go to; www.northerntool.com/tools/product_200449273_200449273
23325

Item number is 301103

[Xusia]

Must people use a sealer, which acts somewhat like an adhesive. I bought a tool like that, but haven't used it yet since I don't have my kit.

[michael everson]

You really need to rivet them in place. It's actually kind of enjoyable to do the drilling and riveting.
Mike

[RM1SepEx]

riveting them isn't a big deal
buy a bunch of double ended Titanium nitride bits
buy an air riveter
doesn't take that long

However, you could to just use glue... if you do, do not powder coat the frame. gluing to powder coat isn't strong

[Mike N]

If you ever need to remove a panel you'll be glad you didn't bond them. I've had numerous panels off my roadster for one thing or another and it was tough enough just getting the silicone to break free. The rivet drill tool is pretty cool but if you take a wide rubber band and put equi-spaced dots on it with a sharpie when it isn't stretched the spacing stays consistent when you stretch it. I agree with Mike I found it somewhat therapeutic drilling and riveting all the panels. On the Roadster it pays off to position all the panels before you drill any and that may be the case with the 818. Also a couple of dozen Clecos will help immensely.

[Bill Waters]

Dwginde - the net strength of a riveted structure depends upon many factors - mainly the type of rivet (e.g. Aircraft type vs. Blind or "pop" type) and metal employed in the rivet construction and then the number of rivets per unit area of the structure being fastened. Sometimes rivet construction is superior to either bonded or welded methods of joining, as is the case with aircraft. Based on what is required of the the panels in an FFR coupe or 818, one rivet per 1.5 to 2 inches is ideal. The sealant is to waterproof the structure, especially important for water infiltration along the panel/frame interface where all of the holes have been in drilled in the steel and are then unprotected. As RM1SepEx surmises, bonding to the powder coating would not provide the regional strength that riveting would.


Bill

[AZPete]

Re Mike N's rubber band, I use the elastic waistband from a pair of jockey shorts marked every 2 inches. It's free!

[RM1SepEx]

Quite a few of my panels will be attached with 10-24 riv nuts. Get the tool from harbor freight and the inserts from mcmaster.com I use 50 year silicone sealant on all panels and you will be amazed at how strong the bond is, hard to pull apart without a tool to cut the bond surface.

[JeromeS13]

Quite a few of my panels will be attached with 10-24 riv nuts. Get the tool from harbor freight and the inserts from mcmaster.com I use 50 year silicone sealant on all panels and you will be amazed at how strong the bond is, hard to pull apart without a tool to cut the bond surface.

Which size riv nuts are you using? I see two lengths; one for .010"-.080" Material Thickness and one for .080"-.130" Material Thickness.

Thanks!

[wleehendrick]

Get the tool from harbor freight

Dan, which tool is that? I see that there are several types of rivnut tools (sliding wedge, plier type, threaded) around. My Local Harbor Freight didn't have one; do you have a link and recommendation?

Thanks,

Lee

[AZPete]

I think he means the Harbor Freight "Hand Nut Riveter Kit", #1210, $16.99. It comes with some rivet nuts but HB does not have replacement nuts.

While fitting and installing panels you may have to trim them to fit over welds, brake lines, etc. I've got a pneumatic nibbler which is fast and easy but hard to keep on a precise line. I like this $8.99 hand nibbler from Harbor Freight because it's easy to keep on a line, though slower. Each squeeze cuts about 1/4" and it's best for short straight cuts, but this photo also shows a slightly curved cut.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/HBhandnibbler.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/AZPeteCobra/media/HBhandnibbler.jpg.html)

[Mechie3]

I broke my harbor freight one on the third 1/4-20 rivnut I did. :(

[John Dol]

I ended up buying a rivet gun for my Coupe but never used it as you are not riveting the entire car all at once. So the amount of rivets you put in at a time is minimal. Before you get the air compressor ready and the tool on your done with the hand riveter.
In addition I now look like Arnold instead of Urkel! :p

John

[Bill Waters]

Google Aircraft Spruce company - they have an excellent rivet, rivnut, nursery, Dzus, etc. selection. High quality: prices of course reflect that c/w, say, HF.

Bill

[DruOdil]

Dan, which tool is that? I see that there are several types of rivnut tools (sliding wedge, plier type, threaded) around. My Local Harbor Freight didn't have one; do you have a link and recommendation?

Thanks,

Lee

Lee, I emailed you about being in your area this weekend. If you want me to pick up a "Harbor Freight special" for you just let me know.
Dru

[wleehendrick]

Lee, I emailed you about being in your area this weekend. If you want me to pick up a "Harbor Freight special" for you just let me know.
Dru

Hey Dru, Thanks for the offer, but I'll be in Monterrey this weekend. I'll probably just order a tool; it'll be here by the time I need it. The last time I set a nut-sert or riv-nut was installing the strut tower brace in my old GTI... that was 20 years ago!

[cmcintyre]

I got the spacer tool and found it useful from several standpoints. I can use the holes to use a punch on the sheet to start the hole. You can transfer the same spacing to an adjoining piece. And because the guys just pop a hole for the shipping screws in about the right spot, you can use that as a starting point to get minor spacing changes to even things up.

Hey at least they give you the firewall to practice where no one will see it..…..

23368

[Xusia]

I got the spacer tool and found it useful from several standpoints. I can use the holes to use a punch on the sheet to start the hole. You can transfer the same spacing to an adjoining piece. And because the guys just pop a hole for the shipping screws in about the right spot, you can use that as a starting point to get minor spacing changes to even things up.

Hey at least they give you the firewall to practice where no one will see it..…..

23368

What finish is that on your aluminum? It's looks like a satin-type finish, and not a coating. Did you just sandblast the aluminum and call it day?

[cmcintyre]

That is sanded with 180 on a belt sander as my cabinet is a little too small for the bigger pieces. I wanted the markings kinda horizontal rather than swirls, knowing I wouldn't be able to be consistent. Then it's covered with Sharkhide.

[first time builder]

I tried the rubber band trick the elastic trick then bought the spacer tool and never looked back have used it on three cars and several other projects. Aircraft spruce also sells it for a few more $. I would space it and then use a sharpie to mark, then punch with snap punch and then drill.

Kenny