Master cylinder leak *HELP*

[esff32]

I am having trouble with a persistent leak coming from the main banjo bolts on top of both master cylinders. They have the crush washers on both sides and are tight yet still are seeping out and dripping on the floor. I don't believe they need thread sealant. Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Evan

[68GT500MAN]

How hard are the washers? This may sound crazy, but they are NOT all created the same. Make sure they are "dead" soft by annealing and then they should seal.
Doug

[esff32]

Can you elaborate Doug. They are the silver looking thin washers that came with the Wilwood kit. So you heat the washers up, how? Forgive my ignorance.

[esff32]

Anyone aware of a special washer or thread sealant for these banjo bolts. Seems to me the brass or copper washers used at the calipers would be a better bet. Any help would be appreciated.

Evan

[Silent T]

Go here and put in part# 1208267
https://www.hydraulicstore.com

[TigerBill]

These have been suggested by others. I just tried some when I replaced my master cylinder. So far so good. They have an inner rubber o- ring that can take out some surface imperfections.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/search.html?query=617-9061

[DARKPT]

Definitely no thread sealant in the brake line connections.

[sheephearder]

Use a candle to anneal them

[kraftee]

I used some copper crush washers that I had lying around to fix the same leak. If none of the other suggestions here works, take your aluminum crush washers to the closest NAPA store and have them give you the same size copper ones... ERIC

[GWL]

Once the banjo bolts have been tightened the washers have become work hardened. However, you can anneal both copper and aluminum.

I got this information from a motorcycle site and then rewrote some of it, see below for the link. It does fit in with what I have learned in the past. I just had to verify my thoughts.

Copper:

You need to get copper 'dull red'. It means to heat it until it glows a dull red. In order, as you heat metal, it goes:

• slightly reddish tinge - this isn't hot enough to do anything
• dull red
• cherry red - properly 'red', but somewhere less than orange
• orangey-yellow - way further than you need to go
• white-hot - its about to melt, stop it.

Aluminum:

Heat the washer with an acetylene torch set without oxygen to soot it up. Add oxygen to form a neutral flame and carefully burn off the soot. The temperature needed to burn off the soot is just right to anneal the washer.

It you don’t have the tools to do this, get replacement washers and be careful not to over tighten.

http://www.motorcycle.co.uk/reference/annealling-copper-aluminium-washers

Another discussion on a motorcycle forum:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469989

George

[kraftee]

Good info George. I make my living doing metal sculpture with copper and use the annealing process all the time. Keep in mind that something as small as these crush washers is going to go through the cycle VERY quickly. The time difference between "dull red" and melting (I have never seen copper get "white-hot", it just gets orange - then melts) is gong to happen quickly. If it hits the melting point, it's ruined. Be ready to pick up the hot washer and plunge it into a bowl of water. ERIC

[esff32]

Thank you for all of the help fellas. I went to SEMA yesterday and talked to some of the guys including the Wilwood folks and they suggested the copper washer also. I appreciate the continued help.

Evan

[77233349975]

try SUMMIT--#ERA-985064ERL-AND SUM-220711. I GOT OF THE MESS AND WENT THIS WAY!

[esff32]

Are there any issues with the brake fluid eating away at the o-ring? I tried copper and they leaked. Then I went back to the aluminum with the advice of FFR. I scuffed them up with some 220 grit sandpaper and reinstalled them. They leaked again probably because they were previously torqued down. I'm just about at my wits end with these banjo bolts leaking and would like to go to these however I am worried that the caustic nature of the fluid will eat away at the o-ring. Any other thoughts guys and again I appreciate the continued support. Evan

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b481/esff32/Factory%20Five%2033%20Build/0cb76f8649ef4f8c92dc2a5ed1c4316b_zps35799acc.jpg

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b481/esff32/Factory%20Five%2033%20Build/7171e3a911ff0ae370c9284f85b3753c_zps9b694134.jpg

[michael everson]

If I had to guess, I would say maybe your banjo bolts are too long and not fully crushing the washers. Take both washers out and see if you can tighten the bolt. If yes, then start looking very closely at the fitting and the master. Something's wrong and swapping out washers isn't going to fix it.
Mike

[esff32]

Thanks Mike, I will do that. Do you know if the parts listed above are an acceptable fix or should I be focusing on making what I have work?

[esff32]

Today i put the calipers to work and did a bit of measuring. It appears that the distance from the sealing surface of the bottom washer on the master down to the bottom of the threaded inlet is roughly .560". The threads exposed protruding through the banjo fitting with the washers installed on either side is .435". So the bolt is definitely compressing the washers I'm just not getting a good seal. I'm still curious if the above solution will work, at least you only are dealing with one crush washer. Any other thoughts, I feel like an idiot not being able to get this thing to seal. This isn't my first rodeo by any means but I'm lost. :rolleyes:

[michael everson]

You really shouldn't have to use anything else. Is it possible your just not tightening them enough? I have reused crush washers many times with no issues.
Mike

[esff32]

Its possible, however based on what most people say, I feel like I may be overtightening them. Most people say just to finger tighten and then add about a quarter turn with a wrench. Some of my "car buddies" have said the contrary, they tighten the heck out of 'em.

[Larry]

I ordered my banjo bolt from FFR and it came with the aluminum washers and they leaked. I called Wilwood and they said to use copper. Well, they leaked too. I then filed the boss on the master cylinder very flat and the bolt still leaked. Next I used two copper washers on each side of the banjo bolt. And guess what, it still leaks. The master that leaks is for my clutch. I don't know what else to do. I am going to call both FFR and Wilwood tomorrow and either get some advice or a new master cylinder and banjo bolt. I have spent so much time and effort on this leak, it makes me want to quit the whole car. Sorry about that last sentence.

Larry

[michael everson]

I have a car here that is doing the same thing. No matter what I do they leak. I will keep you posted if I come up with a solution.
Mike

[Barrel]

Earl's Performance Stat-o-Seal washers have worked for me. You could try Summit Racing Part # EAR-178007ERL if its -4AN washers you're looking for.

[Mike6568]

Me too, no leaks after using the Stat-O-Seal


Earl's Performance Stat-o-Seal washers have worked for me. You could try Summit Racing Part # EAR-178007ERL if its -4AN washers you're looking for.

[erlihemi]

All good info guys! My aluminum washers on the Wilwood masters are weeping also. I was going to go copper, but will look at stat-o-seal. I don't know if a little dirt got in it, annealing is wrong, or if the Wilwood surface finish is bad. Mine are only leaking on the Wilwood side of the washer. The banjo bolt is sealed. Aluminum washers on calipers are fine. I used the other style master with o-ring for the clutch and no problem there.

[britpit]

39090

I got rid of the banjo bolt and went with part numbers 1218133 and 1207965 from hydraulicstore.com. This substitutes a straight thread and O-ring fitting to replace the banjo fitting.

[esff32]

Changed out to the stat-o-seals shortly after my last post and they have not been a problem since. Can't say the same for the debacle with the master cylinder hoses. �� That problem was finally resolved too.