Hoping to start an MKIV build soon - introducing myself, gathering info and advice.

[cobrabite]

Hello everyone!:D

I am new to the forum and I am in the planning stages of MKIV which I am hoping to begin sometime in the spring 2014.
I've learned a lot already just browsing the forum and getting feedback from some very helpful people already (posted my first thread in the Northeast forum first - which I think was not the right place to start a thread like this - but I'm figuring it out. :o
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12032-New-to-the-forum-specing-out-an-MK4-build-to-start-in-the-spring

Anyway, I was hoping for continued input as I work my way through the tons of information and advice.
This is an awesome forum, the amount of proven experience and helpfulness here is second to none - I do appreciate it a lot!

Like most people here, I have been in love with A/C Cobra's since I was a kid. My Dad has been involved with Northeast modified racing all of my life, so I'm familiar with open wheel racing, have driven them and enjoyed that involvement as well as a replica cobra that he built back in the 80's that provided me with the spark to do one myself someday.
Here it is the better part of 30 years later - on the back end of a health scare, my kids are at a good pre-teen age to enjoy this build with me, I now have the barn built (no heat but is weather tight and concrete floor) and electric coming soon and I'm not getting any younger. So - I'll figure out how to pay for it - and go for it. We only live once. And driving a homemade cobra... is LIVING!

Anyway, I just wanted to say hello to everyone and looking forward to the party.

I have definitely dialed back from the idea of going with a big block monster. I want something to drive to work on nice days (30 miles each way to Sikorsky Aircraft) and I do not want to spend a fortune on an engine. I am realizing that a worked 5.0 liter coming in near 300 HP will be sufficient. Any stroker 302 will likely do the job for me and be the least expensive HP.

I am a little leary of getting the base kit without knowing what engine/tranny/rear setup I will have.
I've been digging through salvage yard info, ebay, craigslist, etc for the donor (or donor kits) with limited finds.
I understand there are salvage yards out there that do pallet kits - but I seem to only find them on the West Coast - shipping $$$
Any on the East coast?

From Carl of VA: He asked..

1. IRS or Live Axle - Live 8.8 donor (I think 327-353 gears...?)
2. Power or Manual Steering (Power I think - jury seems out on this)
3. Power Or Manual Brakes (Likely manual)
4. ABS (I do not think I will need)
5. Transmission and Gear Ratios (Open to opinions on this - small block stroker 302, T5 with 353 gears is what I'm thinking).
6. Differential Gearing
7. Creature comforts such as heater (if you want to add air conditioning you can do it later but will dictate how a lot of behind the dash space is used. I think I want to go bare bones here.

Does anyone have a checklist (maybe excel spreadsheet) of needs, donor needs, prices etc.??
I've started to put one together but thought I'd ask as well.

Also I am in Southern CT and hope to connect with new friends locally for advice and share info.

Thanks everyone!
-Wayne

[CraigS]

I know it's a bigger chunk up front, but if you can do the complete kit I really recommend it. 1- Live is fine as long as it is 3 link. Mild 302 go w/ 355 gear and probably get the axle from Forte's. 2-Power steering-just stop thinking about it-do it.3- manual brakes. The adjustable dual Wilwood MC setup and the brakes FFR supplies can work just fine w/ the correct pads. I like Hawk HP+ in the rear and HPS in the front. 4- ABS is way too complicated, 5- You have it figured. A mild 302 works just fine w/ a T5 and 355 and is fairly inexpensive.6- covered, 7- absolutely do a heater in CT. Eventually you will want a top but a heater will extend the season by a bunch. But before that, you know those times in the middle of the winter where, out of the blue, you get 2-3 days in the low 40s and it feels like spring? Hopping in your FFR for a 30 minute drive makes all problems go away. And, if you time it right, it can be 30 minutes to a good lunch and warm up, and then 30 minutes home. Oh yeah!

[chopthebass]

Welcome Wayne!

I am new too, and also planning a build next year. Every time I look at the forum I see a good idea or a modification that I say 'I must remember that'.

1. IRS or Live. I had exactly the same dilemma. I spoke to FFR because they no longer sell the IRS rear. They told me the live rear will be about 95% as good as the IRS, and that the IRS works better for heavier cars and you don't get the benefit with the FFR. Their words not mine! I will be going 3-link live rear definitely.
2. Power steering most definitely. I built a Dax Cobra in the UK with a small block chevy and it was brutal in a parking lot!
3. Power Brakes I think if you upgrade to expensive Wilwoods then probably not. I will probably go power brakes.
4. Noooo.
5. No idea about ratios. 3.55 seems to be very popular. There must be some kind of formula where you can input some figures and work out what effect different ratios have on acceleration and top end.
6. What is this one?
7. Heater for sure. A/C - I probably wont. If you drive faster the air flow keeps you cool!

Good luck
Ian

[QSL]

congrats!!

We have 3 link on our mk4 and I love the ride and feel. Swing the full kit if you can. Its worth it and you will use most of the parts. Its a very convenient way to build one of these cars.

[chopthebass]

Oh and make sure you fit the Breeze roll bars. They are chunkier than the FFRs and they have a slight rear rake.

Hey QSL could you send me some pics of the roll bars. I followed a link to your build but still couldn't find pics. Thanks!

[4.6 litre]

Hello Wayne,

I'm in the same boat as you. I've been searching the Roadster posts for the past month looking for information. There appears to be a number of us newbies on the forum. I'm hoping to start a build next year after I attend the roaster build school. I'll be following your posts and hope to learn a lot from and all the members who reply to your posts.

Best Wishes

Damien

[CraigS]

Uh, I just went to the FFR site and did part of a 'build your kit' and the IRS is definitely still offered so not sure where that info came from.
But anyway, what I wanted to add to anyone who is thinking about an FFR, is to find some local owners. Depending on your location, they may not be so 'local' but even a 3-4 hour round trip will give you more info than you can get anywhere else. ALL of us would be very happy to help out a prospective builder. There will be differing opinions on specifics, but, as long as you understand the backround of each person, you will be able to process their thoughts appropriately. I know we are lucky in the greater Wash DC area, but there are two groups here you could tap into. The VA side gets together on Sat Am at the xxx and some of the retired guys (maybe 6-10) have lunch on Fridays. The Md side have Sunday breakfast at 8 AM at a Bob Evans. So find your local FFR guys and have a ball and learn a bunch.

[chopthebass]

Cobrabrite,
The IRS is still showing in their parts catalogue, but when I phoned them they said it isn't available any more. And I was told that by Western Canada Cobras, who import the kits for us in Canada.
However if you PM me I can give you info on where to get a complete IRS rear, as I am probably not allowed to post info here.
Cheers

[NukeMMC]

PM me an email address and I will send the excel spreadsheet I used to figure out what I could or couldn't save by going to Complete vs. Base kit. It isn't complete by any means, but it gives you a good base to begin from.

[cobrabite]

I see talk of 'fox width' regarding 8.8 rears from donors.
Can anyone clear up my confusion as to what constitutes a fox mustang (I think it means 1994-2004) and what the difference is between earlier rear widths and the 'fox width' flange to flange?
I have to think that I need to consider this when specing out a donor package - either through a full donor or through a cypress auto type of place.
Is there specific backspacing required for different 8.8 rears?

Also- considering the difference between a 3 link and a 4 link - is the 3 link really worth the extra money?
I plan to use the car on the street, no competition - looking to build a fun car, something with serious yet reasonable handling and HP.
Also should consider re-sale value though I can't imagine selling it after building it - but should think about it in case I do have to.

So, in the course of a week I've changed my mind about almost everything I originally was thinking...
I am now thinking;

331 Stroker with T5 and 8.8 rear from donor.
Base kit powder coated.
15" or 17" wheels - still on the fence.
As many donor parts as I can (rear, tranny, foot box, wiring, rack, spindles, Lower A frames, upper and lower trailing arms, fuel tank, e brake, brakes..is the hydraulic clutch setup to be used as well??... sway bars too??)
Twin roll bars
Stainless side pipes
Power steering - (a lot of talk about this swayed me over to power)
Power brakes - (unless I can use the donor brakes unassisted - but I seem to think that I'd need to use the EOM system assisted)
Heat

Aftermarket: Gages, aluminum radiator, vent fins, powder coat aluminum panels flat black, engine accessories and a ton more I'm sure

Someone mentioned shorter and more angled Breeze roll bars - opinions on that? I think I'd be cool with the FFR ones.

[SStrong]

Fox is '93 or earlier. The Fox rear end is about 1 1/2" narrower than the 94-95 and fits up to the rear wheel wells. The wider rear end would need to be narrowed to fit the body. The advantage of the N95 (94/95) is they are five lug, but narrowing would cost you a couple of hundred (quoted $275 here) plus the cost of shorter axles. Get the Fox, and buy 5 lug axles from a Ranger pickup or one of the FR vendors. I used a Fox rear end, but used the brakes from an N95. Had to buy brackets to make them fit. You figure a lot of this stuff out as you go, but it is a really fun learning experience. My car is titled and being painted (nearly 2 months at the shop after 18 mo. build, you'll hear lots of horror stories about this). Fortes rear ends will fit perfectly, so this is a good way to go. Expect your budget to go out the window pretty quick. We on the forum love to spend your money, LOL.

[cobrabite]

Oh - I had it backwards - thanks!
A lot of learning to do.:o

[EricatHeritage]

Fox is '93 or earlier. The Fox rear end is about 1 1/2" narrower than the 94-95 and fits up to the rear wheel wells. The wider rear end would need to be narrowed to fit the body. The advantage of the N95 (94/95) is they are five lug, but narrowing would cost you a couple of hundred (quoted $275 here) plus the cost of shorter axles. Get the Fox, and buy 5 lug axles from a Ranger pickup or one of the FR vendors. I used a Fox rear end, but used the brakes from an N95. Had to buy brackets to make them fit. You figure a lot of this stuff out as you go, but it is a really fun learning experience. My car is titled and being painted (nearly 2 months at the shop after 18 mo. build, you'll hear lots of horror stories about this). Fortes rear ends will fit perfectly, so this is a good way to go. Expect your budget to go out the window pretty quick. We on the forum love to spend your money, LOL.

Just curious but this is the first I have heard about having to narrow the axle. I have an axle from a 1995 GT with the 5 lug hub and 10.5" solid discs that I was planning on using for my build. I cannot find anything in the build manual regarding narrowing the axle. The only thing I found was a side note about making sure to know what axle you have before ordering wheels. Can you expand on this a little bit?

[edwardb]

I see talk of 'fox width' regarding 8.8 rears from donors. Can anyone clear up my confusion as to what constitutes a fox mustang (I think it means 1994-2004)
A: No, 1994 – 2004 is the SN-95 Mustang. The Fox Mustangs were 1979 - 1993. Answers already given regarding the axle differences.

Also- considering the difference between a 3 link and a 4 link - is the 3 link really worth the extra money?
A: Most would agree overwhelmingly yes. If given the choice between the two, go for the 3 link.

331 Stroker with T5 and 8.8 rear from donor.
A: The T5 (even the Z or world class version) is maybe a little light for a 331 stroker. Typically with a stroker you’re going to be over the 330 hp/torque rating of the T5. Either be careful or think about something heavier, like the TKO500/600. But no longer a donor discussion.

Base kit powder coated.
15" or 17" wheels - still on the fence.
A: Do your homework on tires and brakes available for the 15 inch wheels. Yes the look is more traditional, but you’re really limiting your options.

As many donor parts as I can (rear, tranny, foot box, wiring, rack, spindles, Lower A frames, upper and lower trailing arms, fuel tank, e brake, brakes..is the hydraulic clutch setup to be used as well??... sway bars too??)
A: Assume you mean pedal box, not foot box. Donor wire harness can be a real challenge. Wiring is one of the most challenging aspects of these builds, at least for many. A purpose built new harness is really something to consider. Donor rear suspension parts mean basically a 4-link. A 4-link with FFR or other aftermarket parts is not that bad (in my opinion, not all) but 4-link with donor parts is really not a very good setup. This I think most would agree with. You can do way better. Hydraulic clutch isn’t necessary for the build you’re describing. The parts aren’t cheap. A branded Ford or Ford Racing clutch cable installed and adjusted properly works fine. Sway bars are not needed for cruising/street driving. It will be fine without them.

Twin roll bars
Stainless side pipes
A: Pretty expensive options, in my opinion. If really tight on the budget, go with the standard setup and put your money in areas that give performance, like 3-link, etc.

Power steering - (a lot of talk about this swayed me over to power)
A: No argument here.

Power brakes - (unless I can use the donor brakes unassisted - but I seem to think that I'd need to use the EOM system assisted)
A: No, you can use the donor brakes unassisted. Lots of debate on this topic. Personally, I’d go power and have on both my builds. But guys make the unassisted work.

Someone mentioned shorter and more angled Breeze roll bars - opinions on that? I think I'd be cool with the FFR ones.
A: Some complain the newer style Mk4 roll bars are skinny (1-1/2 in dia) and somewhat tall. The Breeze bar is a thicker 1-3/4 in dia and has a slight backwards rake like the originals. Plus it doesn’t have the exposed joint. Nice piece. But for a truly budget build, may be a luxury.

[CraigS]

I forget the exact dimensions but I can give you some info. Fox width is the narrow width which allows the use of the common 10.5x17 wheels for Mustangs such as these
http://www.americanmuscle.com/dedibuwh.html
There are many style variations but most share the approximate price. The problem is that most used axle housings that are this width are four lug and/or drum brakes. The next newer axle housings have 5 lug and disc brakes but are too wide. This can be solved w/ shorter axles and different caliper adapter mounts. If you stay w/ the wider width housing you are probably limited to 9x17 wheels and 275 tires. This is why the caution about knowing what you have before ordering wheels. For the fix see here and look at the "brackets and axles" and understand this is just one source for these.
http://www.northracecars.com/Brakes.html

[CraigS]

Yes the 3 link is really worth the extra money. I have converted both my MkI and My MkII from 4 to 3 link which is absolutely no fun but absolutely worth doing.

[NukeMMC]

Just curious but this is the first I have heard about having to narrow the axle. I have an axle from a 1995 GT with the 5 lug hub and 10.5" solid discs that I was planning on using for my build. I cannot find anything in the build manual regarding narrowing the axle. The only thing I found was a side note about making sure to know what axle you have before ordering wheels. Can you expand on this a little bit?

The axle housings are the same width between the SN95 (94-04) and Fox (87-93) The axles themselves are longer for the SN95. You can buy Fox-length (29") 5-lug axles from North Race Cars and it's "plug-n-play, as long as you get the right spline count (29 or 31). If you use the SN95 axles, you will end up needing wheels with more + offset to keep the tires in the wheel wells.

[Luv2fly]

I know how you feel. Lots of info on this forum. I've been a lurker for a few years but finally pulled the trigger. I pick up my car next week.
I'm getting the complete kit with a 3 link. Manual brakes, steering, and clutch.

[EricatHeritage]

The axle housings are the same width between the SN95 (94-04) and Fox (87-93) The axles themselves are longer for the SN95. You can buy Fox-length (29") 5-lug axles from North Race Cars and it's "plug-n-play, as long as you get the right spline count (29 or 31). If you use the SN95 axles, you will end up needing wheels with more + offset to keep the tires in the wheel wells.

Ahh, got it. Yeah that would limit tire and wheel combinations. So it is either swap out the SN95 axles for Fox width axles bringing the rear end back to Fox Track OR use a wheel and tire combination with enough offset to not rub. Possibly the 15" Halibrand wheels. More research.

[EricatHeritage]

I know how you feel. Lots of info on this forum. I've been a lurker for a few years but finally pulled the trigger. I pick up my car next week.
I'm getting the complete kit with a 3 link. Manual brakes, steering, and clutch.

For what its worth, I've been waiting to do this since 2004 and I am still learning lol. Its a great experience and Congratulations!

[CraigS]

As you may be aware there are plenty of wheel companies that sell three piece wheels that can be made to just about any dimension you need. The problem is that you pay about $600 per wheel. As mentioned it is not absolutely needed to go Fox width as long as you are OK w/ less than the widest wheels on the rear. But going to Fox width gets you a wide range of wheels originally made for the huge Mustang market. That is why they are so reasonably priced.