Honolulu 818S Hana (work/build) Thread

[AZPete]

Congrats on the first start! I've been following your build carefully. Thanks for the seatbelt source - a perfect fit. And, your E-brake mount and steering shaft u-joint mod are in my plans. Good work.

[Aloha818]

Great work Aloha818, and congrats on the first start. Which Borla XR-1 is that, sportsman or multi-core?

Thanks for your positive comments! I bought the muffler at Summit Racing, Borla part number is 40085. I was so excited about it starting that I didn't pay attention to the exhaust note. I'll try and sneak away a little tomorrow and give a listen.

[Aloha818]

Congrats on the first start! I've been following your build carefully. Thanks for the seatbelt source - a perfect fit. And, your E-brake mount and steering shaft u-joint mod are in my plans. Good work.

I appreciate your reply! It's great to hear some of my posts are read and are good enough to help others.

[RM1SepEx]

Nice work! Sounds very nice, satisfying after it starts, isn't it! The sun is finally making a difference up here in the north, my build will be accelerating again soon.

[longislandwrx]

well done. how did it sound with your exhaust setup?

[Aloha818]

Nice work! Sounds very nice, satisfying after it starts, isn't it! The sun is finally making a difference up here in the north, my build will be accelerating again soon.

Thanks! I feel for you in the cold weather, that's one of the reasons I'm in Hawaii now.


well done. how did it sound with your exhaust setup?

Thanks! No Boxter rumble, EL headers masks that it's a Subaru engine. Idle sounds smooth, deep tone, with a throttle blip I get a little amount of gurgle when calms down


http://youtu.be/_R8-lGoyP8s

I can't tell you how excited I am at this point! Now what to do next?

[gwarden]

Sounds great congratulations on the startup

[RM1SepEx]

Thanks! I feel for you in the cold weather, that's one of the reasons I'm in Hawaii now.



I have the opposite issue, can't deal with the heat! Your 80+ degree average temps short out my central nervous system and my MS would flare! So I deal with the cold to have those beautiful moderate (too short!) summers.

I expect my build thread to activate again soon, my back is finally back to "normal" and it was only -10F this AM! :rolleyes:

[AZPete]

Sounds great. Now I know why I bought an EL header. This gives me incentive to get my wiring done. Congrats.

[icky]

I can't tell you how excited I am at this point! Now what to do next?


DRIVE IT!!!!!

ps. with video

[Aloha818]

Sounds great congratulations on the startup


Sounds great. Now I know why I bought an EL header. This gives me incentive to get my wiring done. Congrats.

Thanks! I'm happy so far with the choice of the Borla. Can't wait to hear it under full boost!

[Aloha818]

I have the opposite issue, can't deal with the heat! Your 80+ degree average temps short out my central nervous system and my MS would flare! So I deal with the cold to have those beautiful moderate (too short!) summers.

I expect my build thread to activate again soon, my back is finally back to "normal" and it was only -10F this AM! :rolleyes:

Sorry about your health, looking forward to seeing your 818 build moving forward soon.

[Aloha818]

DRIVE IT!!!!!

ps. with video

Of course that is the ultimate goal, but I'm enjoying the building process! I'm probably going to start on the body this weekend.

[wallace18]

Looks and sounds great! super job so far. What year is the automatic from?

[Aloha818]

Looks and sounds great! super job so far. What year is the automatic from?

Many thanks for your comments. My donor is a 2000 Imprezza Outback. It is still on jack stands, but I have run it through the gears, no apparent issue yet from cutting off part of the tail section.

[Aloha818]

I had today all to myself and got in 8 hours of car building.

I started off with painting a coat of bed liner on the backside of all fiberglass panels. I used Duplicolor w/Kevlar. No special reason for this particular product other than it is a little rubbery. I only put on one coat, which took a little more than half a gallon, I will add a second coat to exposed areas like the hood and trunk, after painting the outside. It took me about 3 hours and really makes the fiberglass look more finished, may also help deaden sound.
26809

Then I started bolting on the body. The side sails have cleco's to the sides and after centering and aligning the bumper/sails/trunk lid I bolted the sail to the top engine crossover. I did bolt the sails to the rear bumper and the rear bumper is held to the lower frame by cleco's.

I was able to line up the gaps pretty accurate, but will have to shave off some of the fiberglass returns on the truck lid to flush the top with the top of the side sails.

I followed the manual and notes from Eric Treves build. Went better than I thought it would.
26810

I went ahead and put the wheels and tires on and dropped it to the ground. Man is this thing low. First time off the jacks stands!

I followed the manual on bolting the light buckets to the front bumper, I haven't found any issues yet. I put the front bumper on the jack, cut the flanges on the lights as per the manual, taped the lights up for protection, and just dropped them in place. Then just placed the fenders and the hood to get an overview of how it all goes together.
26811

Now that I have an overview, I can re-read the previous build threads and better understand what they are talking about!

Putting on all the body panels and the wheels and tires sure cleared a lot of space in my little shop.

[Erik W. Treves]

looking good..I am glad my post helped out.

[Mechie3]

I wonder how much effect my storing my panels on their side for several months affected their figment. Mine sure didn't go together as smoothly as yours. Looks good.

[metalmaker12]

Looking good, but I think you find out there is more to do once you start to mount the pins etc. it overall is not to difficult from a body guy standpoint, but were it gets tricky is the self made brackets and the tweaking ofthe rear lid to open.

[Aloha818]

looking good..I am glad my post helped out.

Thanks Eric!

But really thanks for posting your build, combining the info from all that has posted gives more of a three dimensional view of how everything goes together!

[Aloha818]

I wonder how much effect my storing my panels on their side for several months affected their figment. Mine sure didn't go together as smoothly as yours. Looks good.

I have a ways to go, but what I have bolted together so did take some planning and pressure to align. I did not use any real planning on storing my panels. Since I have limited space I pretty much just put screws in the wall and hung them. The sails I just stood on end in the corner.

[Aloha818]

Looking good, but I think you find out there is more to do once you start to mount the pins etc. it overall is not to difficult from a body guy standpoint, but were it gets tricky is the self made brackets and the tweaking ofthe rear lid to open.


Thanks metalmaker? There is no doubt what I have done on the body so far is the easy part. I have prepped and painted a 1979 jeep Cherokee, 1972 mustang, 1977 corvette and a 1995 jeep wrangler, in that order. I have learned a lot along the way. The last jeep I used Sherwin Williams products and a true candy process, over 8 coats just in the finish!

I'm painting my 818 Jaguar's "Ultimate Black Metallic". Black is the most challenging color, everything shows. I plan on even/matched gaps and flush condition between panels. I will be using DuPont Chroma products this time as I have access to buy at discount. I also have free access to a professional spray booth on weekends and evenings along with Sata spray equipment. Besides some small amount of fiberglass work I have several coats of spay on filler/primer in my future! Did I mention sanding? And sanding? And sanding?

I'm still trying to visualize what openings I want to cut out of the body. I do know I will be cutting the larger side vents like you did. I can't decide about the front yet.

Thanks for posting!

[Aloha818]

So far I have followed the manual on using rivnuts for the fender to bumper and fender to side sail connection points. I also followed the manual on bolting the headlight buckets to the bumper and placing the headlight in place (bolting in a future step).

Some sanding and fitting the fender flange is needed to get an even gap to the headlight;
26843

26844

26845

I also have a larger gap on the left side of the left headlight to the fender. It looks like I will need to sand a little of the bucket, will require pulling the light back out first.
26846

I'm confused on how to attach the bottom front of the bumper to the frame. Here is what the manual says
26847

2 questions, what is the "main body" that you measure from and there is no metal within 3" of the bottom of the bumper to put 4 rivnuts into?

What I did was cut a piece of 16 ga metal to the shape of the bumper, put a 90* bend to wrap up the back side of the 3/4" tube steel radiator support frame, about 21" long and for now, tack welded. The bottom of the center section of the bumper is about 1/2" lower than the radiator support. This is about the point that the weight of the bumper assembly is not resting on the tabs on top of the radiator support. Not sure if this is right, so I only tacked it.
26848

I also cut a notch on each side of the radiator to the headlight bucket assembly area. After installing the support on the bottom of the bumper the tube steel to fiberglass has a gap in the notch. (Prior pic)
26849

Obviously the front of the car will come together, as others have demonstrated. It is going to take some time, sanding, and filler. But the overall assembly is a little clunky and I'm worried about how to keep the hood to fender area from rubbing the paint off each other after completion. Each fender only has two connection/support points along the hood line, compared to a steel fender on a production car having full support with bolts every 6"-10" along the length. There will definitely be a lot of flexing going on without additional supports. The same condition exists on the rear panels at the trunk opening. Anyone have any ideas/comments?

[Scargo]

In this post http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?9077-Mechie3-s-818S&p=134495&viewfull=1#post134495 I suggested the use of adjustable levelers. This may or may not appeal to you, but might supply some support (or resistance) that could possibly help with aligning the panels and help with vibrations and flex.

[Aloha818]

In this post http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?9077-Mechie3-s-818S&p=134495&viewfull=1#post134495 I suggested the use of adjustable levelers. This may or may not appeal to you, but might supply some support (or resistance) that could possibly help with aligning the panels and help with vibrations and flex.

Thanks Scargo. Using levelers might help in some areas, but it's support is one way. I'm more concerned about movement in all directions. The last thing I want is to spend time and money on a great paint job, then with all the flex when driving, rubs off the paint.

[Aloha818]

I was able to spend about 4 hours today, continuing the front panel install.

Very small adjustments can make a big difference. I started working the passenger side first. I took the fender off and on 5 times, as a reference. I started by scribing the bumper and fender to the headlamp to get an even reveal.

Fitment before
26867

Fitment after
26868

I kept having an issue that I couldn't get the fender to come down low enough to meet the bumper at the hood. I realized the problem was the headlamp bucket was holding the headlamp too high. So I removed the headlamp bucket and cut about 1/8" off the lip it rests on. There is plenty of material here and over an inch of overlap, so I also slotted the bolt opening for about a 1/4" up and down adjustment.
26869

The drivers side went a lot faster, I scribed the bumper and fender to the headlamp, cut the side of the bumper where the bucket sits, and only had to take the fender off and on twice.
26870

For some reason the passenger side of the bumper where it meets up with the hood extends past the fender and shrinks the gap to the hood
26871

So with my angle grinder I cut out a tapered slot on the top corner to allow the side to move back. I'll glass it from the underside in a day or two.
26872

Look how nice everything comes together with a little time adjusting and sanding. FYI, the hood is just resting in place.
26873

After this last pic I also scribed the return lip on the hood to get the top of the hood flush with the top of the fenders. I needed to cut from 1/16"-3/16 to get it flush. I'm glad FFR made this long, easier to cut off than add.

[mrprgrmr]

Nice work!

[hawirick]

Hi,
Thanks for your comprehensive build thread. The information and pictures have really encouraged me to take the plunge and order my kit.
My wife and I live in North Kohala, on the Big Island. Our main concern now is shipping the kit. I've noticed you used Honolulu Freight as your shipper and the cost was $4300. Could you please fill in the details. Did HF pick the crate up from the FFR location in MA? Were you ever able to get a shipping weight from FFR? How was Honolulu Freight to deal with? Any extra charges?
We're pretty lucky here because we've got plenty of work and shop space to do the build. Our donor WRX is already on jack-stands in our 1200 sf barn, and is already slowly coming apart.
Mahalo and ALoHa,
Rick

[Aloha818]

Hi,
Thanks for your comprehensive build thread. The information and pictures have really encouraged me to take the plunge and order my kit.
My wife and I live in North Kohala, on the Big Island. Our main concern now is shipping the kit. I've noticed you used Honolulu Freight as your shipper and the cost was $4300. Could you please fill in the details. Did HF pick the crate up from the FFR location in MA? Were you ever able to get a shipping weight from FFR? How was Honolulu Freight to deal with? Any extra charges?
We're pretty lucky here because we've got plenty of work and shop space to do the build. Our donor WRX is already on jack-stands in our 1200 sf barn, and is already slowly coming apart.
Mahalo and ALoHa,
Rick

Rick,

I'm glad your getting a benefit from reading my posts.

Anytime you want to see my 818 let me know.

Honolulu Freight picked up the crate from FFR and I picked it up from Honolulu Freight here in Honolulu for the $4300. They send me a bill every month for $500. That is the difference in shipping cost between what Jay quoted me for weight and what FFR put on the Bill of Laden. My crate was never actually weighed by anyone, including Honolulu Freight. I keep a look out on the forums to see if anyone ever actually weights an 818 shipment so I know how to settle with Honolulu Freight. Right now they are trying to bill me the extra solely on the weight that FFR put on the BOL. But other than this issue I didn't have any problems and they got the crate to me in two weeks.

Nice to have extra room. My little shop has actually worked out pretty good. Makes me have to keep the place cleaned and the trash hauled out often!

I was just on the Big Island last Tuesday. Some friends of ours from Tennessee were here on vacation and we flew over for the day. Flew into Kona, drove to Moana Kea but only made it to the visitor center, +100 mph winds at the summit. So we drove across the lava fields to the highest point we could on Mauna Loa to play in the snow. Had lunch in Hilo, then we drove to Punalu'u Beach Park to see the black sand beach and the turtles. We were not disappointed there, the sand was really cool to see and there were 4 big turtles sunning theirselves on the beach and many more playing in the surf. A beautiful sunset about the time we were driving back around the bottom of the island back to Kona to fly back. So much fun to drive in snow, desert, rain forest, beach all in one day.

[wleehendrick]

then we drove to Punalu'u Beach Park to see the black sand beach and the turtles. We were not disappointed there, the sand was really cool to see and there were 4 big turtles sunning theirselves on the beach and many more playing in the surf.

Love the Big Island!

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LszVHK8xpdo/T7g3V_ndsHI/AAAAAAAAB94/wHTosKWfh6A/w545-h819-no/DSC_0176.JPG

Too bad you didn't have time to get over to Kona and pick up some Greenwell Farms coffee. We got hooked on it last time we were there and now order it regularly...$$$

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UbnTjNZXjXs/T7g0tDajVeI/AAAAAAAAB-A/X5Q51y81pU0/w547-h819-no/DSC_0250.JPG

Must Have Kona Coffee!

[Scargo]

Cool. Turtles. Nice cat. Please get back to the serious business at hand and show us how to build an 818...:D

[metalmaker12]

Thanks metalmaker? There is no doubt what I have done on the body so far is the easy part. I have prepped and painted a 1979 jeep Cherokee, 1972 mustang, 1977 corvette and a 1995 jeep wrangler, in that order. I have learned a lot along the way. The last jeep I used Sherwin Williams products and a true candy process, over 8 coats just in the finish!

I'm painting my 818 Jaguar's "Ultimate Black Metallic". Black is the most challenging color, everything shows. I plan on even/matched gaps and flush condition between panels. I will be using DuPont Chroma products this time as I have access to buy at discount. I also have free access to a professional spray booth on weekends and evenings along with Sata spray equipment. Besides some small amount of fiberglass work I have several coats of spay on filler/primer in my future! Did I mention sanding? And sanding? And sanding?

I'm still trying to visualize what openings I want to cut out of the body. I do know I will be cutting the larger side vents like you did. I can't decide about the front yet.

Thanks for posting!

It's going to look killer, much work ahead, but you sound like you got it. Like it so far

[Aloha818]

Love the Big Island!

Too bad you didn't have time to get over to Kona and pick up some Greenwell Farms coffee. We got hooked on it last time we were there and now order it regularly...$$$

Must Have Kona Coffee!

I think those were the same turtles! Or maybe they all look alike:confused:

Most the coffee served and sold here in Honolulu is Kona.

[Aloha818]

Cool. Turtles. Nice cat. Please get back to the serious business at hand and show us how to build an 818...:D

That made me smile!

So I know everyone is typically in favor of the manual trans, we have really bad traffic here in Honolulu, and I guess I'm a little lazy, so I opted for an auto. Also, to be different, and since the shifter cable would not work now with the trans in the back, I bought a PCS push button shifter.

26896

Will have to come up with a creative mount into the tunnel.

[Aloha818]

It's going to look killer, much work ahead, but you sound like you got it. Like it so far

Thanks Metalmaker! Kinda fun fitting the body, everything except dealing with the fiberglass, dust, itching! Glad I painted with bed liner first, at least I'm not tearing my knuckles up and getting fiberglass splinters.

[07FIREBLADE]

That thing is epic. You only need paddles to compliment that shifter and your golden.

[hawirick]

Thanks for the good information. DO you have a contact you could recommend at Honolulu Freight?
I'm glad you enjoyed your Big Island trip. We love it here. Low population density, good roads, mostly really friendly people and a fun autocross program with the Big Island Region SCCA.
Next time you are here, give me a call. Hopefully my build will have started by then and if there's an autocross then, you can drive our "prepared" miata. Won the Super Street Modified class the last two years in it. ALoHa, Rick

[Aloha818]

That thing is epic. You only need paddles to compliment that shifter and your golden.

Thanks 07fireblade! As far as the paddle shifters go, I have to leave a few things to "upgrade"later!

[Aloha818]

Thanks for the good information. DO you have a contact you could recommend at Honolulu Freight?
I'm glad you enjoyed your Big Island trip. We love it here. Low population density, good roads, mostly really friendly people and a fun autocross program with the Big Island Region SCCA.
Next time you are here, give me a call. Hopefully my build will have started by then and if there's an autocross then, you can drive our "prepared" miata. Won the Super Street Modified class the last two years in it. ALoHa, Rick

Rick, I actually used the online form for a quote and an agent was assigned to the shipment.

Congrats on the two year wins, I might take you up on a test drive!

[Aloha818]

I finished the front panel install this afternoon.
26922

For this stage of the build I am pretty happy with the fitment and gaps. There is still some fine tuning to go.

So some notes that may help others. Bear in mind that there could be some variations in the body panels from kit to kit.

There really isn't any points of reference in the manual, or any points to let you know what is important. Since the doors slide in behind the fender, you don't have a gap to guide you. I originally posted about the bracket I made for the front bottom of the bumper to mount to the radiator support. I ended up adjusting this more rearward. It ended up that the dimension from the inside of the bumper to the front of the 3/4" tube of the radiator support was about 1 3/8's and about 3/8" lower than the bottom of the 3/4" tube steel.

A couple weeks ago an update to the manual was sent out. An important dimension for the front was detailed. This is the angle and height of the windshield. Apparently critical,if you plan on their top.
26923

So I set the windshield frame next. I ended up with the 1 3/8" dimension as the best place to have the hood and the fenders line up with the windshield frame. There is a body line at the top outside edge of the fenders that carries onto the doors. I used that line as my target to just pass by the outside of the windshield frame
26924

To hold the fender in place and hold the height I wanted I cut a 2" piece of 1/2" round steel tube and welded one of the 1/4" x 20 lock nuts to the top of it. So the overall height is 2 1/4". I cleaned off a small area of the powder coating, drilled and mounted the steel tube to the fender centered on the hood pin support bracket, and welded it in place. This height gives me a little room to shim with a washer or two
26925

I ended up cutting a slice in the top of the drivers side of the bumper to better match the hood gap also.

I followed the manual on installing the hood pin brackets and hood pins, no issues. I'll wait till after paint for final adjustment and trim rind install.

Now on to the doors. Followed the manual on mounting the hinges, hinge stop, and steel door frame. While setting up the front I kept thinking I was crooked because the void under the windshield frame on the passenger side was pretty big, but almost no void on the drivers side.
Passenger side (door not installed)
26926

Driver side (door not installed)
26927

So after a bit of head scratching I put the two side by side
26928

Might not be completely obvious in the photo, but you should be able to see someone at FFR got a little carried away cutting the passenger door panel (lower panel in pic) a little fiberglass patching is in my future.

[bil1024]

That stinks I see it, would it be worth asking for another door ?

[Erik W. Treves]

This is what I did to my Pass door.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26929&d=1394887782

[Aloha818]

That stinks I see it, would it be worth asking for another door ?

Bil1024, I stopped by West Marine yesterday and picked up some West System fiberglass epoxy, mat, etc to stiffen the areas around the hood pins, and fix the area of the front bumper that I cut to fit the hood. Just a little more of the same to repair. For me, less effort than waiting for a replacement, plus, based on Erik's reply below, it looks like a common problem.


This is what I did to my Pass door.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26929&d=1394887782

Thanks for the reply Erik. There is just enough "grey area" in putting the body together that it makes one question if your making a mistake somewhere. I probably spent two hours extra time trying to figure out where I was off. I had each door skin taped in each opening and kept walking back and forth measuring etc. It was only after I put them back to back did I realize it was the door skins, not me!

Has FFR been alerted to this issue? Those builders that are planing on going "paint less" (although in my opinion the body has many more minor defects that make that unrealistic, unless this is just a skin for a race car) are going to have to live with the "hole".

[Scargo]

When I visited and toured the FFR facility in December I saw a lot of automated trimming. This does not seem to be the case with the doors unless the have a jigging or programming problem. I sure hope that both of you, or everyone with a problem like this, gives FFR a call. It should be easy to resolve.

[stryker]

That made me smile!

So I know everyone is typically in favor of the manual trans, we have really bad traffic here in Honolulu, and I guess I'm a little lazy, so I opted for an auto. Also, to be different, and since the shifter cable would not work now with the trans in the back, I bought a PCS push button shifter.

26896

Will have to come up with a creative mount into the tunnel.

Where did you get shifter?rough guess but how long is the cable?i looked at their sight but they don't give a lot of details.

thanks john

[Aloha818]

Where did you get shifter?rough guess but how long is the cable?i looked at their sight but they don't give a lot of details.

thanks john

I bought the shifter from http://www.zerogravityperformance.com/

The cable is about 3' long, just a rough guess, I only eyeballed it as it's still coiled up.

FYI, the drive that is hooked to the cable can be mounted anywhere within the range of the length of the cable, a wire harness connects the drive to the push button controller.

I will start working on this as soon as I finish the body mounting.

[Aloha818]

As an FYI, The manual has you installing the doors after the side sails and rear bumper and before the front fenders, bumper and hood. Since others had posted that the starting point for the side sails was 3/4"-5/8" back from the vertical steel frame tube just behind the front tires was good, I skipped and went on to the front.

My reasoning was that since the doors slide in behind the front fenders and not flush as in a typical car, that there was room to play. Although for me everything worked out, it could have gone wrong. A point I didn't think about was that the door hinge to frame connection has a direct correlation to the support bracket for the door latch. Which BTW, somehow I missed, or FFR didn't put it in the manual. You can put it in after the side sails but would have been a little easier before. Sorry for the bad pic, but this is the bracket that bolts to the frame and then the door latch bolts to this through the fiberglass.
27032

So on my kit the 5/8" side sail setback was a good dimension, and I think worked out better to install the doors after the front body panels. With everything that needs to match up in place, I didn't have to remove/reinstall maybe as much.

Because of the way the fender and door comes together, it's going to be difficult to access the hinge bolts and nuts at the end. So since the bolt opening in the hinge to door frame connection is not slotted and need no adjustment, I welded the 3/16 bolts to the hinges. Now to take off the door all you have to do is remove the locknuts from inside the door and the door will slide off the bolts.
27033

Another bit of info missing in the manual is that the front, bottom, inside corner of the door panels needs to be radius'd to allow the door to swing open. You can see that FFR did on their build by the pics, but they don't instruct you to do it. I cut a 3" radius corner to corner and it looks about right.

By following the manual and a little common sense I installed the door latches and catches without making any extra holes. On the slot through the door panel for the latch to slide through, I started with a notch barely larger than the latch, then widened to match the catch as I adjusted the door.

I was able to get a really good gap on the door to body, the whole process for the passenger door took me about 6 hours.
27034

So the door to front fender gap is another story. I'm really not a fan of the way the door fits behind the fender. A relatively large gap is required between the front of the door and the back of the fender. This is because the hinge point is such that the face of the door moves forward as the door swings open and with a small gap the face of the door will hit the back of the fender. FFR includes a piece of metal that goes on top of the top hinge as a door stop. But for me, I am going to modify it further to keep the door from opening as far to keep an even smaller gap. This is where I have it so far
27035

As you can see in my pic the gap is a little wider at the bottom when the door is in the closed position, in the open position the door actually hits the back of the fender at the bottom first. I see in some of other builds that the builders kept the about 1/4" return on the fender the whole way, with a very large gap at the top. I haven't decided yet which will end up looking the best. Since i will be painting mine black, the gap might disappear.

[Scargo]

Super stuff. :cool: You write well, describe everything well and have pictures to boot. Hopefully FFR is taking in some of this.
Could you work on the lighting for the pics? It's sometimes hard to see Hula Girl's facial expressions.

[wallace18]

I can only tell you from my deal it is best to do the doors after the side pods and rear bumper. You will find out you may have to do it that way to get good fits. Though you look like you certainly know what you are doing. Best of luck. I like your build.

[metalmaker12]

As an FYI, The manual has you installing the doors after the side sails and rear bumper and before the front fenders, bumper and hood. Since others had posted that the starting point for the side sails was 3/4"-5/8" back from the vertical steel frame tube just behind the front tires was good, I skipped and went on to the front.

My reasoning was that since the doors slide in behind the front fenders and not flush as in a typical car, that there was room to play. Although for me everything worked out, it could have gone wrong. A point I didn't think about was that the door hinge to frame connection has a direct correlation to the support bracket for the door latch. Which BTW, somehow I missed, or FFR didn't put it in the manual. You can put it in after the side sails but would have been a little easier before. Sorry for the bad pic, but this is the bracket that bolts to the frame and then the door latch bolts to this through the fiberglass.
27032

So on my kit the 5/8" side sail setback was a good dimension, and I think worked out better to install the doors after the front body panels. With everything that needs to match up in place, I didn't have to remove/reinstall maybe as much.

Because of the way the fender and door comes together, it's going to be difficult to access the hinge bolts and nuts at the end. So since the bolt opening in the hinge to door frame connection is not slotted and need no adjustment, I welded the 3/16 bolts to the hinges. Now to take off the door all you have to do is remove the locknuts from inside the door and the door will slide off the bolts.
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Another bit of info missing in the manual is that the front, bottom, inside corner of the door panels needs to be radius'd to allow the door to swing open. You can see that FFR did on their build by the pics, but they don't instruct you to do it. I cut a 3" radius corner to corner and it looks about right.

By following the manual and a little common sense I installed the door latches and catches without making any extra holes. On the slot through the door panel for the latch to slide through, I started with a notch barely larger than the latch, then widened to match the catch as I adjusted the door.

I was able to get a really good gap on the door to body, the whole process for the passenger door took me about 6 hours.
27034

So the door to front fender gap is another story. I'm really not a fan of the way the door fits behind the fender. A relatively large gap is required between the front of the door and the back of the fender. This is because the hinge point is such that the face of the door moves forward as the door swings open and with a small gap the face of the door will hit the back of the fender. FFR includes a piece of metal that goes on top of the top hinge as a door stop. But for me, I am going to modify it further to keep the door from opening as far to keep an even smaller gap. This is where I have it so far
27035

As you can see in my pic the gap is a little wider at the bottom when the door is in the closed position, in the open position the door actually hits the back of the fender at the bottom first. I see in some of other builds that the builders kept the about 1/4" return on the fender the whole way, with a very large gap at the top. I haven't decided yet which will end up looking the best. Since i will be painting mine black, the gap might disappear.

Nice approach,
If you look at FFR cars, Erik's ,Toms and mine you will see how we trimmed the fender inside edges. It is meant to allow airflow through the fender. Happy building

[Aloha818]

Super stuff. :cool: You write well, describe everything well and have pictures to boot. Hopefully FFR is taking in some of this.
Could you work on the lighting for the pics? It's sometimes hard to see Hula Girl's facial expressions.

Thanks for the compliments! I'm having fun both building and writing about it. I'm sure FFR has better experience and writers, but since this is my first kit project I probably have a different perspective that others in my same position might benefit from.

I'll try and take pictures earlier in the day when the light is better! Hula girl has also commented on my poor pics if her!

[Aloha818]

I can only tell you from my deal it is best to do the doors after the side pods and rear bumper. You will find out you may have to do it that way to get good fits. Though you look like you certainly know what you are doing. Best of luck. I like your build.

Thanks for the comments and following my build. I agree, doors defiantly after the sides and rear bumper, and for me I'm glad I did the front fenders, bumper and hood before the doors, with the rear truck lids last.

When I am finished we will see if I knew what I was doing:confused:

[Aloha818]

Nice approach,
If you look at FFR cars, Erik's ,Toms and mine you will see how we trimmed the fender inside edges. It is meant to allow airflow through the fender. Happy building

Metalmaker, thanks for commenting.

This is air that doesn't vent through the hood? Airflow from through the radiator? I hadn't thought about that.

Makes sense, although I'm still not a fan of this part of the 818 design. I would have rather had a vent in the side of the fender and doors flush with the fender as in a typical car.

But you can't have everything!

[Aloha818]

So I took a couple more (better lit) pics and a couple more notes

The radius I cut on the bottom front if the door
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For the door frame install I spaced the bottom 3/8" up from the top of the side sail
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I put the latch in the the frame, made sure it was locked into the strike, and wedged it as far forward as possible and as high as it could go, you need as much room as you can get for the rear gap, then tightened down the hinge bolts to the body frame. As you can see in this pic with the latch removed the strike hits the bottom of the slot. By the time you get the weight of the door on the frame it will settle down to the center
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For a reference, on my set up, the top of the door is about 2 3/16 above the ledge of the side sail.
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I set a little larger gap at the bottom of the door, maybe 3/16", because I know it will eventually settle.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm going to change the single "hoop" roll bar to dual hoops, started today before I started on the trunk
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My steel guy is supposed to have the new hoops ready for me to pick up tomorrow. The trunk lids are going pretty good. The front piece is pretty close to a good fit. I have installed the hinges on the rear piece and have it pretty close to final fit. Need to trim the return lip where it lays on the front piece to get it to lay lower.
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I will say that I originally was worried that putting the body together would be a greater challenge. It just takes a little time and patience. Very little moves in fitment can make much larger differences.

[Aloha818]

I received the new one piece gas cap assembly, very nice piece.
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[Aloha818]

Since I completed installing all the body panels piece by piece this week, and I had a whole day to work on it today, I decided to try and get all the fiberglass cutting done. Even with wearing a dust mask all day I can't get the dust out of my throat (gotta get another beer!)

I try and read everyone else's posts to get ideas for me to pick from, so a few of my cut outs will be obvious plagiarism.

For the rear bumper I'm basically keeping FFR design, other than my exhaust going through. I will probably use the sheet metal frame, and for sure use the mesh. All the pieces I had powder coated satin black.
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I mounted the license plate holder, but with a plate on it looks like an afterthought. I am toying with the idea a making a recessed area here out of fiberglass.
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I have a water-to-air intercooler set-up and I will be fabricating a trunk out of aluminum so I do not want the opening in the trunk lid. I will be cutting the recess area out and making the area flat so it doesn't trap water.

For the rear side vents and the small forward facing vents in the front rear decklid I will be using just the mesh installed from behind. During the paint prep stage I will radius sand the cuts for a clean look.
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On the opening in the top of the hood I will be using the mesh and probably the sheet metal frame also.
I opened up the two small areas on each side of the radiator opening and I plagiarized the opening on each end of the bumper, I will not be cutting the FFR designed openings. And I have a single radiator for the intercooler so I don't need these two. To me this matches the look of the opening on the rear sides. These 4 opening will get mesh only. I haven't seen anyone do anything with the radiator opening. My plan is to install 3/8" squared mesh made of chrome plated stainless, similar to how Jaguar and Cadillac differentiate their supercharged models.
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Just an FYI, I made all the cuts with my angle grinder, Demel with a cutting bit and sanding disk, and a drill with various hole saws for the radius corners.

[Erik W. Treves]

I like the front openings!

[Aloha818]

My door cards were on BO when my kit came, I haven't needed them so I didn't bug FFR for them. About the time I was getting close to needing them to see how everything was going to fit together I emailed Jay and they shipped them out the next day. I also needed some additional 1/4"-20 x 3/4" button head screws, he sent them out also (extra $).

DISCLAIMER!!!

There is a big grey area on how the doors fit with the windshield, with the hood, with door cards, with the dash, etc. I am posting what worked for me, please evaluate your build with what I did and decide for yourself. Other builders that have posted ahead of me please do not infer that what I did is any better or worse than what you have done, I have only made different choices. For me I wanted to see the body line of the fender align with the body line of the door skin (body line marked in black)
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Since I didn't have the door cards, and didn't want to trim the fender until I had a better understanding on fitment I hadn't trimmed them. I was also reminded that the door skin to fender gap assists in airflow from the radiator. So I trimmed them today
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First off, I'm am very happy with the door cards. I will be covering with black vinyl leather looking material. It seems like there have been different versions posted. Mine are black fiberglass.

It appeared to me that the panel should fit inside the door skin, except for the top. For one, the side and bottom gap is too tight to have the panel fit outside. I had also read where the door card helps hold up the bottom of the door skin to keep it from rubbing on the top of the side sail.

So since I will be wrapping the panels with leather this flange/lip had to go
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So next is where you really need to evaluate your options. If you notch the top side of the door card, so that the side is inside and the top is on top, all could be well except then you would also have to notch the door card for the frame mounted door catch to pass through. So I pondered this for a bit.

Another just FYI. My principal in both rebuilding other cars and in building this 818 is would it come from the factory this way. Typically, if ever, would you see large uneven gaps, notches in body panels, or exposed fasteners.

Keeping this thought in mind I thought about the original Subaru. The outside of the door is proud of the inside area where the door latch is located. So why can't I slide the door card forward enough to keep from interfering with the protruding catch? I couldn't see one, in fact it helped to slide forward since the front top of the card is cut back. So I started cutting and notching away. You can see in this front view that the panel matches nicely with the dash and the windshield pillar.
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Here is the rear view
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And then the inside view. Obviously I will have to make a fiberglass return here on the door skin to cover the latch and the gap. I will make this to fit a rubber bulb type seal to fit. This will give the door something to shut against and to keep pressure so they don't rattle.
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So here are some additional pics from the passenger side
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As I said above, I'm really happy with the door cards and it should finish off real nice.

My intercooler radiator has arrived along with my push button shifter and final gauges. As soon as I get these installed and an alignment I'm ready for a test drive and paint prep.

[Mitch Wright]

The car is looking great, thanks for all of your build details, it has been fun to follow.

[carbon fiber]

i've been following your thread, nice build. fyi, west systems makes great products, but you used epoxy? the ffr parts are vinyl-ester aren't they? epoxy and vinyl or poly resins don't bond together properly. they may have seemed to bond, but long term may cause problems.

[Aloha818]

i've been following your thread, nice build. fyi, west systems makes great products, but you used epoxy? the ffr parts are vinyl-ester aren't they? epoxy and vinyl or poly resins don't bond together properly. they may have seemed to bond, but long term may cause problems.

I haven't actually started any fiberglass repair or modifications yet, but good point. I need to research this more. Originally I thought I would just be repairing the cut I made on each side of the front bumper where the hood is too tight.

[carbon fiber]

glad you haven't started, could save some headaches. any good vinyl or poly resin will work, just don't use the 3m stuff sold at auto stores, it's junk. i've had great results with stuff from US Composites. i'm not affiliated with them in any way, except as a satified customer.

[VD2021]

I haven't actually started any fiberglass repair or modifications yet, but good point. I need to research this more. Originally I thought I would just be repairing the cut I made on each side of the front bumper where the hood is too tight.

No matter polyester, vinyl-ester or epoxy, any repair/addition made to a cured part will always be a separate piece bonded to the other. So the prep becomes as important as the materials used.

You're doing an outstanding job with both the build and your thread. Looking forward to the karting video..

........I was also impressed with the "disclaimer"..... Good stuff.

[Aloha818]

glad you haven't started, could save some headaches. any good vinyl or poly resin will work, just don't use the 3m stuff sold at auto stores, it's junk. i've had great results with stuff from US Composites. i'm not affiliated with them in any way, except as a satified customer.

Thanks for commenting.

Here in Hawaii we have a pretty active composite industry, between surfboards, boating, fishing, kayak's, etc. I just found a company called Fiberglass Hawaii that looks like they should have what I need. I'll check them out this week and see what they recommend for the repairs and changes I'm about to undertake.

[Aloha818]

No matter polyester, vinyl-ester or epoxy, any repair/addition made to a cured part will always be a separate piece bonded to the other. So the prep becomes as important as the materials used.

You're doing an outstanding job with both the build and your thread. Looking forward to the karting video..

........I was also impressed with the "disclaimer"..... Good stuff.

Thanks for the compliments! After I meet with the local fiberglass supply store I'll post back what I learn and what I actually do. I have never worked with fiberglass patching or otherwise before, so more education ahead!

[Goldwing]

This book describes the fiberglass process pretty well and gives notes on polyester and epoxy. I used it to build the kayak I finished right before I started my 818. I found it user friendly. I planned on doing some selective reinforcing to the body panels to allow for a traditional hinge and latch hood and trunk setup, and to help strengthen the lower areas of the bumpers. I hadn't looked into what type of resin to use yet, good discussion guys.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/007057989X?pc_redir=1395388201&robot_redir=1

[metalmaker12]

West system epoxy works very well with this vinyl ester resin on these panels

[carbon fiber]

West system epoxy works very well with this vinyl ester resin on these panels i'd never use epoxy with poly/vinyl. don't know why you'd say that. they are different chemical makeups completely. epoxy mechanical bonds are much stronger than poly mechanical bonds. i've built airplanes from scratch in sections with epoxy and mechanically bonded them into a complete airframe. poly mechanical bonds can be fairly strong with proper prep. i agree with vidal that prep is the most important aspect, but i would NEVER intentionally try to mechanically bond epoxy to poly. many say it's ok to bond epoxy to FULLY CURED vinyl/poly, (not the other way around though) but in my opinion, IT'S A BAD IDEA. what do i know though, i've only been doing it for twenty-some years now.

[metalmaker12]

To each there own, but my whole family has been building boats and fiberglass components for like 50 years. Trust me I thought the same before I was advised that the epoxy as an filler and even in bonding the dryed vinyl ester has been proven to hold up better under stresses. I am tried strength test with both epoxy and vinyl ester bonded to ester and the epoxy won. Not trying to unsettle anyone, just got the tip from a veteran boat builder. Maybe it's not as good in theory, but it is working very well
so far. I am not the first to do this if you search around and others has the same good results.

[carbon fiber]

i've had the opposite results myself. we'll agree to disagree.

[metalmaker12]

i've had the opposite results myself. we'll agree to disagree.

It's all good, but I will test it some more, since you feel the opposite, I have both resins on hand so I can play with them

[carbon fiber]

sorry if i was testy with my response, i was in a bad mood when i got on here, didn't mean to sound so sharp in my response. the experience i've had with it was bad. it didn't show up right away either, after time though, it partially delaminated. it was properly prepped but was under extreme loads and didn't hold up. (repairs on a fiberglass bucket on a bucket truck for a friend of mine) it may have been the types of resins. it suprised me though, as i'd heard as long as the vinyl ester is fully cured, it's not a problem. even on US Composites website and other forums there is conflicting opinions about the subject. i'm just going on experience. it may also not have been a problem with something that wasn't under as much stress. epoxy does bond stronger than vinyl ester there's no doubt, but there's also chemicals in the vinyl ester that can cause the epoxy to not bond properly. (usually when it's still curing) either way it's just cheap insurance to me after the problems i've had.

[Goldwing]

Bonding anything over epoxy, you do have to clean off the amine blush. It's a waxy coating that develops on top to assist in the curing process. I believe that's why bonding to partially cured epoxy gives problems with other resins. I'll look into the chemical bonds between the resin types, but mechanical bonds should be decent on the back sides of the body pieces anyway with the rough texture. I like working with epoxy over poly resin due to the smell. Haven't worked with vinyl ester before though. I have some learning to do.

[Aloha818]

It's all good, but I will test it some more, since you feel the opposite, I have both resins on hand so I can play with them


sorry if i was testy with my response, i was in a bad mood when i got on here, didn't mean to sound so sharp in my response. the experience i've had with it was bad. it didn't show up right away either, after time though, it partially delaminated. it was properly prepped but was under extreme loads and didn't hold up. (repairs on a fiberglass bucket on a bucket truck for a friend of mine) it may have been the types of resins. it suprised me though, as i'd heard as long as the vinyl ester is fully cured, it's not a problem. even on US Composites website and other forums there is conflicting opinions about the subject. i'm just going on experience. it may also not have been a problem with something that wasn't under as much stress. epoxy does bond stronger than vinyl ester there's no doubt, but there's also chemicals in the vinyl ester that can cause the epoxy to not bond properly. (usually when it's still curing) either way it's just cheap insurance to me after the problems i've had.


Bonding anything over epoxy, you do have to clean off the amine blush. It's a waxy coating that develops on top to assist in the curing process. I believe that's why bonding to partially cured epoxy gives problems with other resins. I'll look into the chemical bonds between the resin types, but mechanical bonds should be decent on the back sides of the body pieces anyway with the rough texture. I like working with epoxy over poly resin due to the smell. Haven't worked with vinyl ester before though. I have some learning to do.

Thanks guys for commenting and expressing your views. We are all (mostly) learning here and all want the best results we can achieve and I believe to help our fellow builders.

FYI, the closest I've been to working with fiberglass is on my sons and I project '77 Vette. It only had a 1" long crack/blemish that repaired before starting the painting process. So realize I basically know nothing about fiberglass repair.

Today I went to Fiberglass Hawaii, they seem to know what they are doing and have a pretty large operation and were very busy. Car guys, boat guys, and surfers all in line buying and asking questions. Dutch the Operations Manager assisted me. So here is what I bought
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And to get an idea of cost here is the list
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As you can see I purchased vinyl ester resin. This is not readily sold on the counter, he filled a gallon container for me from the warehouse (smallest amount they would sell). He said I would have been fine with using polyester based resin (at less cost), but that the vinyl ester does have some corrosive resistant properties. I told him I wasn't really concerned about the extra cost, that I wanted to make sure I didn't have a problem showing up in the paint a year to two from now.

He told me that for patches to lay up 4-5 layers of the mat, about 45-60 mins apart to get to the same thickness as the FFR body parts. Clean everything with Acetone.

I am going to cut out the vent area of the trunk lid and replace with flat fiberglass, so he sold me some Mylar sheeting to use as a "form" as the resin will not stick to it.

I will also be adding some layers of fiberglass in a few areas to strengthen. I will post pics as I get into it.

So please comment as you see fit so we can all learn, thanks in advance.

[Goldwing]

Looking around there seems to be a consensus to match the types of resins used. It also seemed generally ok to use polyester resin over vinyl ester resin, but most emphasized a need to scuff the area up. I read that as the chemical bond is weaker, so make sure to roughen the area up to give the new material some extra bite in a mechanical bond. So, doable, with care. Gel coats and epoxies seemed to be incompatible. And finally epoxy on top needs protection from UV, or it breaks down. Treat epoxy like POR-15, protect it from the sun.

It really does sound more ideal to use vinyl ester like you're doing. While you're working, give the fiberglass cloth time to soak up the resin, then squeegee out the excess for lighter lay ups. A medium pressure so as not to turn the cloth back to white, keep it clear. It is far stronger and lighter to have a more layers of fiberglass with minimal resin, than to leave extra resin in place with fewer layers. Use wide shallow dishes when mixing the resin too. Allowing it to pool in a dish, it will "kick" fast, start to gel and harden, and overheat. Possibly melting the pot you used.

Looking forward to your results.

[metalmaker12]

I have both west system epoxy and a vinyl ester resin and I have had great success with both. With both ( more so the vinyl ester) proper sanding/ scuff prep is very important. I been using the ester for the holes and cracks since it dries faster and is more primer compatable. But for strengthening and glueing in studs I have been using the epoxy with cloth, seems to hold up great. I have been fairing out ( sikm costs with fiberglass body filler and iceing which seem to work well

[Aloha818]

Looking around there seems to be a consensus to match the types of resins used. It also seemed generally ok to use polyester resin over vinyl ester resin, but most emphasized a need to scuff the area up. I read that as the chemical bond is weaker, so make sure to roughen the area up to give the new material some extra bite in a mechanical bond. So, doable, with care. Gel coats and epoxies seemed to be incompatible. And finally epoxy on top needs protection from UV, or it breaks down. Treat epoxy like POR-15, protect it from the sun.

It really does sound more ideal to use vinyl ester like you're doing. While you're working, give the fiberglass cloth time to soak up the resin, then squeegee out the excess for lighter lay ups. A medium pressure so as not to turn the cloth back to white, keep it clear. It is far stronger and lighter to have a more layers of fiberglass with minimal resin, than to leave extra resin in place with fewer layers. Use wide shallow dishes when mixing the resin too. Allowing it to pool in a dish, it will "kick" fast, start to gel and harden, and overheat. Possibly melting the pot you used.

Looking forward to your results.


I have both west system epoxy and a vinyl ester resin and I have had great success with both. With both ( more so the vinyl ester) proper sanding/ scuff prep is very important. I been using the ester for the holes and cracks since it dries faster and is more primer compatable. But for strengthening and glueing in studs I have been using the epoxy with cloth, seems to hold up great. I have been fairing out ( sikm costs with fiberglass body filler and iceing which seem to work well

Thanks guys for commenting!

I have watched a few Utube videos and read the info the supplier gave me. Yes, rough up area and make sure everything is clean. I'll be on this in about a week or so, working now on the final pattern for the new roll bar hoops. New hoops are the same height as the factory and hit the same bracing locations. The angle of the pics make it look crooked but it's not. Tried to match the shape of the seat.
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Installing the intercooler lines, pump and radiator now, then a couple more wiring connects, new push button shifter and I'm ready for a test drive.

[wallace18]

Nice job. Gives a clean look.

[Canadian818]

Great work! Looking forward to your fibreglass work, I'm a complete newb to it.

[Aloha818]

Nice job. Gives a clean look.


Great work! Looking forward to your fibreglass work, I'm a complete newb to it.

Thanks guys!

This is just the template for the hoops. I wanted to make sure it looked the way I wanted, I started with cardboard but too hard to visualize. The real ones will be better, but made to this size.

[Aloha818]

After fitting the hoop I jumped on mounting the intercooler radiator. I also purchased this from frozenboost, it holds about 32 oz of water and is rated for +600 HP. I fabbed up an upper and lower steel bracket. There is 4 1/2" between the two and at the same angle. Don't know if this is right or wrong. But it seems like by keeping it on the same angle as the radiator that the airflow would have one less turn.
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I will also paint it black.

[wleehendrick]

I like the hoops... but without a cross-bar, where do you mount a GoPro? ;)

[WIS89]

Your work is still looking terrific!!

I have been following along, and have enjoyed watching your progress. You have been sailing along with the build!

I look forward to seeing how you finish things up. I hope it has been as fun as it seems to be (most of the time ;-o) )!

Regards,

Steve

[Aloha818]

I like the hoops... but without a cross-bar, where do you mount a GoPro? ;)

Thanks for the compliment!

I have an iPhone and they have an app called Vidometer. It's pretty good, works like a go pro (but without having to spend any money, app is free). The app records speed, G forces, elevation and angle. You can buy a case called Hitcase that has different mounts. I'm probably going to get just a regular dash mount and use.

[Aloha818]

Your work is still looking terrific!!

I have been following along, and have enjoyed watching your progress. You have been sailing along with the build!

I look forward to seeing how you finish things up. I hope it has been as fun as it seems to be (most of the time ;-o) )!

Regards,

Steve

Thanks for the positive comments! I don't feel like I'm sailing along though, keep getting sidetracked by making different changes.

Even when I'm frustrated I'm still having fun. This 818 kit is a perfect canvas to build from. When building a typical project car, '60's Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, etc, no matter which direction you go, stock, restomod, etc, you will always have plenty of critics. So far the FFR community has been positive no matter what direction the builder goes. Electric, 6 cyl, 4 cyl w/no turbo, race, street, bare bones, exotic, paint, no paint, etc. and since it is so new there really is no "right way".

[ehansen007]

Love those hoops. Thats the one thing i regret not doing on my build. Well that and not robbing a bank to pay for it.

[Scargo]

Love those hoops. Thats the one thing i regret not doing on my build. Well that and not robbing a bank to pay for it.
PM me. Always wanted to rob a bank and delivery of my kit is coming up soon.

Hula Guy: Covered here (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11333-Rear-roll-bar-design) in the 818 forums, it talks about the main hoop being one piece and that if it is not "stock" you might not be allowed to run in even HPDE if it's not up to snuff. Not sure how you can do it but I agree that you need a rear brace for each hoop.

[Aloha818]

Love those hoops. Thats the one thing i regret not doing on my build. Well that and not robbing a bank to pay for it.

Thanks for the comments. Yes, to me looks better, the final version will look much better, the one in the pic is just the mock up.


PM me. Always wanted to rob a bank and delivery of my kit is coming up soon.

Hula Guy: Covered here (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11333-Rear-roll-bar-design) in the 818 forums, it talks about the main hoop being one piece and that if it is not "stock" you might not be allowed to run in even HPDE if it's not up to snuff. Not sure how you can do it but I agree that you need a rear brace for each hoop.

Thanks for commenting.

I bought the S version as I don't plan on racing. I'm more concerned with looks than safety. The odds that I'm going to get hurt more with hoops than the original bar is probably zero. On the days when I'm worried about safety I can drive my nanny Mercedes with all it's air bags, sensors and controls!

Maybe hard to tell in the pics, but both rear and both side to side FFR braces are still there.

[Canadian818]

PM me. Always wanted to rob a bank and delivery of my kit is coming up soon.

Hula Guy: Covered here (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11333-Rear-roll-bar-design) in the 818 forums, it talks about the main hoop being one piece and that if it is not "stock" you might not be allowed to run in even HPDE if it's not up to snuff. Not sure how you can do it but I agree that you need a rear brace for each hoop.

Define "stock", it's a homemade car.

[Aloha818]

I took another pic of my hoop/tool bar modification mock-up. This pic shows the bracing points
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We don't have any tracks here in Honolulu to run this on if I wanted too. There is a SCCA racing event in the parking lot of Aloha Stadium, you against the clock. I will still qualify for that I understand. So my mod might not be for everyone. Instead I'll be navigating around pedestrians, bicyclists, mopeds, motorcycles (all of which have no roll bars at all!) and cars, not too many 18 wheelers here either!

I understand we do have underground racing on a section of interstate here every Sunday night after midnight, that might be fun!

[RM1SepEx]

I believe you have autocross there too and the 818 will be an absolute blast

[Aloha818]

The intercooler radiator, piping, pump, and filler are now installed and connected, less wiring. I used the Cobra style Bosch pump and 5/8" silicone hose. The filler cap is aligned/mirrored with my main radiator fill location, both slightly higher than the rest of the systems. The pump is located just behind the drivers seat 1/4" aluminum panel. Close to the lowest elevation possible. I ran both the supply and return lines through the drivers side sail.

I also made some tabs and mounted the Hella horns

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[Aloha818]

Previously I had mentioned that the PCS push button shifter had arrived. So today I started the install. I mounted the actuator on the drivers side frame beside the trans. The shifter is cable is 5' long, so you can mount it about anywhere.

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I had to marry the PCS shifter linkage connection with the Subaru lever, worked out like factory. The PCS shifter linkage looks like it has about 2" of run length, the Subaru linkage connection point needs about 1 7/8" of run length, so it should work as I have connected. only issue is that it looks like the PCS setup puts Park at farthest extension, Park is closest extension on the Subaru. I'm hoping that since you have to "teach" the PCS computer the shift points, that it can "learn" the Subaru way.

27395

On jack stands with the engine running I have manually went through all the gears and topped of the trans fluid and verified operation.

So tomorrow I'm back to wiring. I have all the lights, extra gauge sensors, transmission control, horns, and intercooler pump mounted. Now to finish electrically.

[Wayne Presley]

How many hours do you think you have invested in wiring the car with the stock harness?

[Kalstar]

Just read ever word of your thread. Very impressive and I love the dual hoops.

[Aloha818]

How many hours do you think you have invested in wiring the car with the stock harness?

That's a good question! My guess would be about 48 hours so far, and probably a good 8 hours left to go. When I was working on the harness earlier I left the wire long at the front and back for the lights and horn until the body was mounted, so that's left. I have added 5 extra gauges (6 actually since one displays both left and right side exhaust temps) all the sensors are installed, so that wiring is needed, the PCS push button shifter harness needs to be integrated, and then the stereo and speakers. So maybe more than 8 hours to go!

[Aloha818]

Just read ever word of your thread. Very impressive and I love the dual hoops.

Thanks for the positive comments! I'm having a good time and looking forward to a test drive here in a few more days.

[Aloha818]

When I installed and dieted the harness I left the leads long in the area of the lighting until after I mounted the body and actually cut in the lighting fixtures. Since the body is mostly fitted I had to go back to the wiring, not as much fun.

I was able to spend about a half day Saturday and 2 hours today and was able to complete almost all the lighting, horns, and radiator fans.

The FFR manual is very non-specific in its instructions. It basically tells you to test the power/ground leads to the pigtail with the bulb in it to figure out what termination is correct. I guess it could be that different years have different wiring. It also takes some time to figure out what FFR sent, where it goes and what you use from the donor. I had already realized that the headlight connector on my donor was different that 2002-2006 year so I had already bought a pair of headlight harnesses to get the right connector. I also had to pick up a pair of 9005 bulbs since those are required from the donor.

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I'm not sure what others have done to organize the wire looms around to the rear lights. I guess I may be anal but I like everything organized and put where it makes sense and would be serviceable. Since there is no structure around the back I picked up these stick-on tie wrap mounts. I didn't trust the adhesive pads sticking to the bed liner on the rough fiberglass so I used a little bit of 5min epoxy on each one. So these should be pretty permanent and if I need to get into a loom I can just cut /replace the tie wrap.

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[RM1SepEx]

can you describe and show us a good shot of your exhaust? I'm trying to develop a "database" on my exhaust thread.

[Aloha818]

can you describe and show us a good shot of your exhaust? I'm trying to develop a "database" on my exhaust thread.

Sure!

I started with a Kinugawa bell mouth I bought off eBay on the turbo, cut the outlet side up as high as I could to get the 3" SS pipe to exit as straight as possible and aiming to the center of the cutout in the bumper. There is about a 3"-4" piece of 3" SS pipe going into a SS Borla XR-1 racing muffler I bought from Summit Racing, 3" in and 3" out. Then I have a 3" round w/rolled edge, Polished SS tip from Carriage Works, also from Summit. About as straight of an exit path as you could get.

I had a steel/welding Buddy make the pretty welds. I still need him to weld in another bung and weld the tip on now that the body is fitted.

27488

Let me know if you need more info.

[RM1SepEx]

That is damn straight! I "need" to get my CAT in there too... how long is that Borla? My Cat needs 10 inches, it slips over a 3 inch pipe

27490

I'll hack up the 3 inch bell mouth downpipe and run it down and angled to the right... Hoping I can get in a 14 inch muffler. I need to add the O2 bung between the CAT and the muffler

no muffler yet, waiting to mock up to determine how much room I have.

Your straight out is too high for my trunk plans

[metalmaker12]

That is damn straight! I "need" to get my CAT in there too... how long is that Borla? My Cat needs 10 inches, it slips over a 3 inch pipe

27490

I'll hack up the 3 inch bell mouth downpipe and run it down and angled to the right... Hoping I can get in a 14 inch muffler. I need to add the O2 bung between the CAT and the muffler

no muffler yet, waiting to mock up to determine how much room I have.

Your straight out is too high for my trunk plans

Cut the cat ends down, but there are shorter cats. my magna flow exhaust is only. 8" and come in 3in dia. Search speedway and summit and jeggs

[metalmaker12]

Cut the cat ends down, but there are shorter cats. my magna flow exhaust is only. 8" and come in 3in dia. Search speedway and summit and jeggs

You deff have enough pipe to make the cuts and set that low enough for your trunk. I wish I lived close, I could mock it up in an hour and weld in about the same time.

[Aloha818]

That is damn straight! I "need" to get my CAT in there too... how long is that Borla? My Cat needs 10 inches, it slips over a 3 inch pipe

27490

I'll hack up the 3 inch bell mouth downpipe and run it down and angled to the right... Hoping I can get in a 14 inch muffler. I need to add the O2 bung between the CAT and the muffler

no muffler yet, waiting to mock up to determine how much room I have.

Your straight out is too high for my trunk plans

The body of the Borla is 15", then add about 2" on each end for the slip joint.

[longislandwrx]

Can't you tuck the rear wiring higher up under the lip?

reorient the plugs on your directionals so they face up and get the next size smaller loom and that rear wiring should disappear.


edit... just read you epoxied. nevermind :P

[Aloha818]

Can't you tuck the rear wiring higher up under the lip?

reorient the plugs on your directionals so they face up and get the next size smaller loom and that rear wiring should disappear.


edit... just read you epoxied. nevermind :P

Good point and yes I could have, except

I will be fabricating a semi-sealed trunk area in the back. I haven't started yet, but the plan is to have 3 easily removable aluminum "bins". One on each side of the transmission and then one over the transmission. The area above my wire loom and below the top of the bumper will probably be the area I install the support structure.

I am also planning on the convertible top and according to the email sent it is designed to fit in the trunk area. Waiting for size and other info from FFR before I can really start on it.

[Aloha818]

I spent most of my evenings this week tying up odd and end electrical items, vinyl wrapped my center dash, installed the new added gauges and radio, and today connected up the Push Button Shifter.

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The shifter is pretty cool. The cable only took a little engineering and bolted right up to the original shifter mount. Electrical connections were pretty easy. Teaching the unit where the detent for each gear was really easy. Still have to set the speed display to the Subaru pulse rate. Requires input from the brake pedal to shift from park, just like stock. Almost instant gear changes, way faster than you could move the stock lever.

Tomorrow, unless something comes up, I will adjust the alignment a little, perform a final safety check, and see if I can drive it around the block.

[metalmaker12]

That's pretty cool. Ah technology

[carbon fiber]

yours is cooler, but the '63 dodge had it goin' on too.27621 the auto trans is turning out pretty cool. have you any plans for paddle shifters later?

[VD2021]

Yeah, Nice upgrade. I really like the electronic shift.

Once an OEM item or technology goes well an aftermarket option will shortly follow, if it can be integrated and produced for a reasonable cost.

Waiting to see the 818 (first auto trans, right?) karting the streets of Honolulu :cool:.

[TahoeTim]

27622
1956 push button

way before 1963 ;)

[Aloha818]

Lot of "Firsts" today.

1st drive for me.

1st 818 driven, not on continental USA.

1st 818 driven with an Auto (4EAT)

1st 818 with a Push Button Shifter

1st 818 w/turbo EJ22

I have a video, really shaky sorry, but it's not true without pics right?

http://youtu.be/IAXNYeT03MY

Lots of info to digest, lots of research to do, lots of work yet to be done. But now more exciting since I know it will actually drive!

[Ellimist]

Very cool! Been following your posts for some time now and thanks for all the updates! I notice you avoid all (or most?) of the speed bumps in the video - how's the clearance with those? I live near a high school and there's some pretty serious speed bumps....not big enough to stop me from ordering an 818 (delivery date in December 2014), it'll definitely be a hurdle in the future

Best,
Ben

[Aloha818]

Thanks for asking. This was my first drive and I didn't have a spotter. So I was cautious. After that video I made another quick trip on the back street, ran up to 45 mph and after getting out of the car at a speed bump and checking clearance was able to drive over the ones in the video with no problem.

[Aloha818]

yours is cooler, but the '63 dodge had it goin' on too.27621 the auto trans is turning out pretty cool. have you any plans for paddle shifters later?

Thanks for commenting. After the test drive today I'm really happy. The paddle shifters are an easy add on. The PCS wire harness already has the plug ready to go. I plan on installing after I mostly finish the rest of the 818.

[Aloha818]

Yeah, Nice upgrade. I really like the electronic shift.

Once an OEM item or technology goes well an aftermarket option will shortly follow, if it can be integrated and produced for a reasonable cost.

Waiting to see the 818 (first auto trans, right?) karting the streets of Honolulu :cool:.

Thanks for your interest in my build! I posted a very rough first drive video. A better one to come soon. You can still make out the blue skies and palm trees though!

I guess I skipped the "karting" stage. My first drive today was with all the body panels, doors, water to air intercooler complete and 99% of the electrical operating.

[AZPete]

Congrats! And, thanks for your cool updates - I'm copying several mods.
Geez, couldn't you at least have given Hula Girl a ride? She has been there for you ever since you unpacked the 818 so I think she deserved a ride in the initial test drive!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Congrats! And, thanks for your cool updates - I'm copying several mods.
Geez, couldn't you at least have given Hula Girl a ride? She has been there for you ever since you unpacked the 818 so I think she deserved a ride in the initial test drive!
She was holding the camera.

[Canadian818]

Congrats!

[Aloha818]

Congrats! And, thanks for your cool updates - I'm copying several mods.
Geez, couldn't you at least have given Hula Girl a ride? She has been there for you ever since you unpacked the 818 so I think she deserved a ride in the initial test drive!

Thanks for following my progress and positive comments. Hula Girl was right there! But the camera was on the dash and she was in her seatbelt!


She was holding the camera.

I think she could have done a better job that the $10 mount I had around.


Congrats!

Thanks!

[Aloha818]

Now that the thrill of the first drive is subsiding I have a few first comments.

I have my seat sliders right on the floor, this seemed a good height and let the slider adjustment bar have enough room to move up and down under the frame brace. I have NRG seats BTW. But after the drive it now feels low. Since there is little to no space for front to back adjustment I will probably take off the bar and raise the seat an inch or so.

When I first bought my 95 Jeep it did not have power steering, was an effort to turn 33" tires. Part of that build was installing a 4.8 Chevy vortec w/4l60 and power steering. So I was unsure of going backwards and removing perfectly good power steering. But the 818 turns easy, I have pretty sticky 215 front tires and only plugged the fluid ports on the rack, for reference. Very responsive input and feel.

To early to judge the brakes. They worked fine with no noticeable extra effort or issue, but I have driven about a mile, and only up to 45mph. That being said, I have driven many cars that I didn't like the brake feel the first time I pushed the pedal! I am using all stock rotors, pads, calipers, etc from the Outback. The pads and rotors are new replacements.

No mirrors either inside or outside, so no judgement on visibility. I have the stock outside mirrors on hand but I like the ones Wallace used, might look into buying those. I also purchased a cool 1950's dash mounted rearview mirror that if I can replace the old mirror in I plan to use. I have always liked the look of open air roadsters with the mirror on the dash.

As those have said before me, this thing is quick! I still have a few more engine adjustments to make before I would feel good about pushing it, and then of course I probably need to get registered first as I'm right in the heart of Honolulu. But every little movement of the pedal is instantly felt!

I have all the body panels mounted, hood pins are just there, not adjusted, and no inner fender wells. So unfair to completely judge, but a lot of creaking and panel flex, especially the hood. I see why others have added a center hood support. But I will also be adding some more layers of fiberglass in some areas and some metal bracing in others. Looks like I will have to be removing more of the bedliner I previously put on than I thought! And of course this all takes time and adds weight.

The overall sense of presence driving the car is that it feels like it is larger than it looks like from the outside, if that makes sense?

On a side note. Performing a pre flight check is really important!

I have really learned a lot from the beginning of the build, I learned during my pre flight. I tried to read everyone build threads, follow the build manual, use common sense, finish each item before going to the next etc. I thought I was thorough. I found a couple of bolts not tightened, and while setting a rough alignment/ride height, realized I had installed one of the front coilovers sleeve and collar upside down. I also spent the time to burp the coolant system and let the engine idle until the radiator fan came on to verify operation. Took almost an hour to heat up. I have a laser pointer thermometer that I used to continually check the engine, coolant lines, radiator for hot spots to verify the system didn't have any trapped air that might create a big problem. Then let everything set/cool for a few minutes and rechecked all the fluids again. And rechecked the lug nuts. For some reason I'm always worried about a wheel falling off!

I guess the pre flight check worked, nothing broke, fell off, no wrenches scattering down the pavement, overheated, or stopped working!

Going to be a lot of fun to starting to work on finishes now.

[metalmaker12]

Good for you man, my coolant fans work in test mod, but it has not been hot enough outside for them to turn on even in an hour run, looking like it's coming together nicely!!!

[wallace18]

Congrats on the first of many. You should be proud of your accomplishment so far. I have enjoyed the thread.

[Xusia]

Yeah. Awesome thread/build. I also admire your attitude an approach. :)

[longislandwrx]

I have a video, really shaky sorry, but it's not true without pics right?

http://youtu.be/IAXNYeT03MY



Man how good must that have felt when you pulled out into the sunshine.

well done.

[Wayne Presley]

Now that the thrill of the first drive is subsiding I have a few first comments.

When I first bought my 95 Jeep it did not have power steering, was an effort to turn 33" tires. Part of that build was installing a 4.8 Chevy vortec w/4l60 and power steering. So I was unsure of going backwards and removing perfectly good power steering. But the 818 turns easy, I have pretty sticky 215 front tires and only plugged the fluid ports on the rack, for reference. Very responsive input and feel.

The extra work to disassemble, weld, remove pistons/seals is not needed for 95% of the 818 drivers. I never noticed any slop at the track or street driving.


Too early to judge the brakes. They worked fine with no noticeable extra effort or issue, but I have driven about a mile, and only up to 45mph. That being said, I have driven many cars that I didn't like the brake feel the first time I pushed the pedal! I am using all stock rotors, pads, calipers, etc from the Outback. The pads and rotors are new replacements.

Going to be a lot of fun to starting to work on finishes now..
You would be surprised how much better they will feel with Hawk HP+ pads over what you have.

[Aloha818]

Man how good must that have felt when you pulled out into the sunshine.

well done.


Yeah. Awesome thread/build. I also admire your attitude an approach. :)


Good for you man, my coolant fans work in test mod, but it has not been hot enough outside for them to turn on even in an hour run, looking like it's coming together nicely!!!


Congrats on the first of many. You should be proud of your accomplishment so far. I have enjoyed the thread.

Thanks so much guys! I appreciate that you take time to read my posts and comment!

I have enjoyed reading and following along on your builds as well. Other than having a couple work buddies set the frame on jacks stands and my friend welding the SS exhaust, I've done all the work myself in solitude. Which for me is relaxing. Reading and posting on this forum kind of makes building my 818 a "group" effort, without the "group" disruptions.

Yesterday I took the day off from building, enjoying the fact that I made it this far and now refocus on finishing. So my real Hula Girl (though she doesn't Hula) and I spent part of the day at Sandys Beach. Kind of fun scenic area. The waves come in short, high and explosive. Good for body surfing and broken backs! They hauled one out via ambulance while we were there yesterday. If your not local they won't even let you in the water right now, above just wading.

27726

[Aloha818]

The extra work to disassemble, weld, remove pistons/seals is not needed for 95% of the 818 drivers. I never noticed any slop at the track or street driving.

.
You would be surprised how much better they will feel with Hawk HP+ pads over what you have.

Wayne, thanks for the info!

Since I was an earlier delivery I had already installed my rack before some of the others started posting about the internal modifications. I couldn't feel anything that made me think I should have.

After your comment I read some info on the Hawk pads. Sounds like they grab a little better but wear a little faster. I'm on an island, not worried about wear, thanks.

[ruckus racing]

I know im kinda late to the party, but you want/need an extra set of hands? Im very familiar with subaru, and good with anything with wheels. Im military and I plan on building one of these when I get back to mainland.

[Aloha818]

I know im kinda late to the party, but you want/need an extra set of hands? Im very familiar with subaru, and good with anything with wheels. Im military and I plan on building one of these when I get back to mainland.

Hello Rukus! Yes, where were you all these nights and weekends? I could already be done. Ha, ha

Thanks for the offer, after managing people all day and fulfilling others designs, working on the 818 is my outlet for personal creativity and away time.

You are more than welcome to drop by and see the car for yourself and see what you think. Pm me and we can exchange phone numbers.

[Aloha818]

I stayed in the sun a little too long Sunday and haven't felt much like working on the car the last couple days.

Today I drove around the block again and took some exterior pics of where I am.

27786

27787

27788

27789

27790

(FYI, tag is from donor, need wiper done before inspection)

I liked the rear spoiler that Wallace installed, so I ordered one and it came in today

27791

In person it really looks like it was made for it. I'm 20 again and adding a spoiler to my car!

[svanlare]

Congrats on the drive. You are getting close and it looks really good.

[ruckus racing]

So sexy. I understand if you want to build solo, thats probably how im gunna do mine (in 2016, after army). Ild love do come check her out one of these days, and pick your brain about it. sending a pm

Are those the Prodrive 18's?

[Xusia]

I'm fastly becoming a fan of the open back look!

[Santiago]

That spoiler is really a great choice for the S-cars. Even in pics it looks like it was meant to be there. Looking good!

Best,
-j

[WIS89]

Everything is looking great! You have written a great story, and it's been great to follow your build.

The spoiler looks terrific as well. I also liked your initial drive videos. I have to ask what system you used that tracked altitude and G's -- cool.

Thanks for letting us follow along!

Regards,

Steve

[VD2021]

I stayed in the sun a little too long Sunday and haven't felt much like working on the car the last couple days.

Today I drove around the block again and took some exterior pics of where I am.

27786

That is a really nice pic angle.

I have to say your opting to replace the single bar is huge for the appearance. It really removes the "kit" look.

[Canadian818]

Those wheels....when I first seen them on the green sema car I loved them...but then the 530's caught my eye and I changed my mind. Now these pics have me second guessing these again. I love how sunken the rears are, and the 5 spokes look more high end OEM than aftermarket. I wonder how they look in gold...hmm

Oh and good work, I'll be browsing back through this thread more than a few times during my build. Speaking of which, I should be in the garage now :)

[Goldwing]

Wallace really had a find with that spoiler. I like it more every time I see it. I was looking for a way to add a third brake light. It is a perfect solution. Congrats on the many firsts!

[Aloha818]

Congrats on the drive. You are getting close and it looks really good.

Thanks for following my build and the congrats. Well it looks like I'm close, but when I look at it I see all the work left to go! But it is a relief that it actually does drive. Takes some uneasiness away and now I can focus on paint.

[Aloha818]

So sexy. I understand if you want to build solo, thats probably how im gunna do mine (in 2016, after army). Ild love do come check her out one of these days, and pick your brain about it. sending a pm

Are those the Prodrive 18's?

I replied to your PM, the wheels are XXR's. Thanks for commenting and offering to assist.

[Aloha818]

I'm fastly becoming a fan of the open back look!

So far I'm happy with each decision. I really think it will look even better with the black powder coated mesh after painting.

Thanks for commenting!

[Aloha818]

That spoiler is really a great choice for the S-cars. Even in pics it looks like it was meant to be there. Looking good!

Best,
-j

Thanks for commenting!


Everything is looking great! You have written a great story, and it's been great to follow your build.

The spoiler looks terrific as well. I also liked your initial drive videos. I have to ask what system you used that tracked altitude and G's -- cool.


Thanks for letting us follow along!

Regards,

Steve

Thanks for posting and following along! The program is videometer. It is free on iTunes. It is meant to work in conjunction with Hit Case.



Wallace really had a find with that spoiler. I like it more every time I see it. I was looking for a way to add a third brake light. It is a perfect solution. Congrats on the many firsts!

Thanks for your comments!

So for those that liked the spoiler as much as I did, here are some more pics. Wallace really did us a favor by finding this spoiler. I ordered mine from eBay $85 plus $15 shipping, pretty cost effective.

27822

27823

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27825

[Aloha818]

Those wheels....when I first seen them on the green sema car I loved them...but then the 530's caught my eye and I changed my mind. Now these pics have me second guessing these again. I love how sunken the rears are, and the 5 spokes look more high end OEM than aftermarket. I wonder how they look in gold...hmm

Oh and good work, I'll be browsing back through this thread more than a few times during my build. Speaking of which, I should be in the garage now :)

It a real challenge making all the little decisions and hoping when you get done you made the right ones! But think, at least we have the opportunity that we get to make these decisions!

Good luck on your build, and get BACK to work, your 818 isn't going to build itself! Trust me.

[Aloha818]

Today I stated going where I've never been before. That is, fiberglass work.

I'm using a water to air intercooler, so the vent location on the rear trunk lid is of no use for me. I'm planning on a trunk so I don't want water to run in if I cut the opening as typical. If I don't cut the opening it will pool water there. I don't want to cut out the whole area and glass over because I like the design work. So I need to make the area less shallow so water can drain. Here is my cut out line

27826

I am also adding the rear spoiler like Wallace did. I feel like I need some additional support for the spoiler, so while I'm modifying the trunk lid I'm adding some steel for the spoiler. I used a wire wheel on my angle grinder to remove the bedliner I put on earlier, took a couple strips of 1/8" steel and fit/bent/shaped to match the contour of the fiberglass, roughed it up and set in some 5 min epoxy.

27827

I used a piece of sheet aluminum to make a "form" for the patch at the vent in the trunk lid

27828

When I was at the Fiberglass Hawaii they sold me a couple yards of plastic that the resin won't stick to. I used this to line the back of the aluminum form. I cleaned the fiberglass and steel parts completely with acetone, as recommended. Tomorrow I plan on putting 4 layers of cloth to make the vent patch and 2 layers over the steel supports for the spoiler.

27829

I have not done this before, so any comments are very welcome. It looks like the trunk lid is made from 4 layers, so the patch should be as strong as the original.

I will post back tomorrow the steps and products used.

[Aloha818]

Today I completed the fiberglass work on the trunk lid and started prepping for paint.

Note: I am far from an expert, so ask your local paint supplier for advice and product spec sheets. There are many ways and many products to achieve a quality paint job. I am documenting mine as a reference, if it all goes bad I'll at least be able to figure out where I went wrong!

As mentioned earlier, I'm using vinyl ester and fiberglass mat for extra strength and for filling the as designed intercooler vent opening.

I put two layers of mat over each of the steel spoiler supports, and ended up placing 5 layer of mat over the vent opening.

Basically I just followed the product directions for mixing the MEKP, made small batches with only 1-2 layers at a time, waiting about 45 mins between the next batch. I used a small 1 1/2" wide paint brush and coated the area to be covered, laid down the mat, then just like painting, covered the mat with enough resin to just cover, while working any trapped air bubbles out.

I did have a little snag, the mat will not bend around a sharp radius. Ended up having to cut out a couple places after it dried and pulling the mat apart and just using loose fibers for the sharp bends.

I forgot to take a pic of the bottom, will add tomorrow.

27837

Made a trip to the local automotive paint store. Through work I have access to buy at a discount for DuPont products. I picked up wax and grease remover, sandpaper and sanding blocks, body filler, and Chroma series 2k primer.

One very important thing I've learned on past projects is the surface can't be too clean. To get ready to start sanding I wipe the panel with acetone, one rag wet, one to wipe off before it dries. Then use the same two rag process with the wax remover. If you don't clean the panels before you start sanding, grease or wax will just get pushed into the sanding grooves and will be very hard, if impossible to get out.

Next I am using 320 grit on various size sanding blocks, in a cross hatch pattern. I only spent about an hour sanding so far, but got a good feel for the panels. The edges roll off a little and there are some dips, humps, and pin holes. I will block sand as much as I can before I get through the gel coat, then hand sand what the block doesn't reach, and primer will have to build these areas. I'll try and get a pic tomorrow of what I'm talking about.

Note: I'm not knocking the FFR panels. Similar effort can be found on new steel sheet metal panels.

I put my first coat of body filler on the fiberglass vent fill.

27838

Side view of what the infill looks like

27839

Primer spec

27840

[Scargo]

A light weight woven fiberglass cloth will make tight corners. Be careful not to get Hula girl dirty and keep her away from the solvent fumes. Carry on.

[Aloha818]

A light weight woven fiberglass cloth will make tight corners. Be careful not to get Hula girl dirty and keep her away from the solvent fumes. Carry on.


Thanks for the info on the cloth. Since I only only have a few small areas I'm just pulling apart the mat I bought to make it more pliable.

I share your concern with Hula Girl. I only bring her out for pics after the resin is dry, I couldn't find a respirator small enough for her to help on this part of the project!

[Aloha818]

I forgot to take a pic of the finished fiberglass on the underside yesterday, so here it is

27848

Here is a pic of the top side. I know everyone has their own way of doing things, but when I work with body filler I like to use a little at a time and build slowly. I hate to sand so I try and build slow so I don't have sand a lot off. In this pic I had a couple small low areas that I filled, but haven't sanded. This was the 5th pass. I would guess the thickness goes from just about 0" to maybe 3/16", FYI.

27849

[Aloha818]

So bearing in mind that it seems like everyone's body is fitting/installed a little different here are a couple of tweeks I'm doing.

On my install and I've seen on others, the gap between the froward and rear trunk lid gap wants to be on the large side. This being based on a proper gap between the rear trunk lid and the rear bumper with the leading edge of the forward trunk lid being lined up with the side sail/door gap.

Also there is seems to be a unanimous issue with the opening by the humps with the support for the roll bar. This area is also very weak and prone for the fiberglass to crack here. I also think the way the opening is cut (larger with more squared corners) facilitates a place to crack.

27850

So here is what I'm doing

I am sliding the forward hatch a little more rearward to close the gap to the rear trunk lid a little. This also allows a little more room for the hoop brace as you can see in the pic above. The problem with sliding the panel rearward is this

27851

Filling this gap with fiberglass is easier than filling the whole width of the space between the two trunk lids. My forward trunk lid also had voids between the fiberglass and the gelcoat, a small chip earlier showed the void but when I ground off the gel coat to prep for the fiberglass I realized that almost the whole length was void. A little hard to see in the pic so I put arrows. I will be rolling a piece of steel over all the body panel edges as I move forward to discover any other potential voids. Would really be bad for one to show after a quality paint job.

27852

I ground off the bedliner about 1 1/2" around the area I'm patching, ground the opening edges back by about 60 degrees, chased the crack with my cut off blade, and cleaned the area with acetone. I put 4 layers of cloth on the backside of the top part and 3 layers on the opening for the brace. I will add one more layer on each side of the tube opening next. Then cut out an area about 1/4" larger all around the tube to keep a smooth radius. I also added 3 layers of cloth to the front edges.

I'm letting it sit through Sunday to let it fully cure before I start moving it around. Then check fitment to see if I need to add additional layers to the forward edge to close the gap to the door.

27853

I kind of jigged up the panel to maintain the body width while patching

27854

27855

As always, I welcome your comments.

[AZPete]

Thanks so much for detailing your body mods with materials and tips! This will be a huge help as I have no experience with fiberglass either, and I'm following your build carefully. I don't have a Hula Girl for motivation, so I'm slower. :(

[Xusia]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a void?

[Aloha818]

Thanks so much for detailing your body mods with materials and tips! This will be a huge help as I have no experience with fiberglass either, and I'm following your build carefully. I don't have a Hula Girl for motivation, so I'm slower. :(

Your welcome and thanks for letting me know that what I'm posting is a benefit. I was sort of anxious about working with fiberglass, but it's easier than I thought. That is if you plan your time well, make sure everything is clean and mix the right ratios's. The MEKP is measured in drops, so very small changes in the ratio make a big difference to how much time you have to work it before it starts to gel.

[Aloha818]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a void?

No ignorance, maybe my bad photography and/or explanation!

This is a pic if the forward trunk lid, leading edge that meets the top of the door. In this pic the panel is upside down. I ground off the gel coat to prep for building up this area with fiberglass to close the gap to the door. The void (air pocket in gel coat/fiberglass) I am talking about is the area from the point if the arrows to the white line of the gel coat. The void is about 1/8" tall by about 1/8" deep. If you look at the bottom left corner you can see where the gel coat had chipped off. FYI the gel coat had chipped off before I started grinding on it.

27863

[Xusia]

...(air pocket in gel coat/fiberglass)...

Gotcha

[Wayne Presley]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a void?

They spray the gel coat in the mold first, then the glass goes on top of it. The trick is to get the resin to go on with no air bubbles in the resin itself or trap air between the glass and gel coat. Easier said than done.

[Aloha818]

They spray the gel coat in the mold first, then the glass goes on top of it. The trick is to get the resin to go on with no air bubbles in the resin itself or trap air between the glass and gel coat. Easier said than done.

Wayne, thanks for elaborating.

So anyone painting their 818 needs to try and find any and all of these voids during the prep stage, or discover later and ruin the paint job.

[Aloha818]

I realized today I will never get finished building my 818. Every step I come to I see an opportunity to modify!

As I mentioned earlier, my guiding principal in building is to try and look as OEM as possible. I had installed the FFR license plate bracket between the back up lights (in previous pics). To me it looked like an after thought. Since a rear plate is required I started looking at how other cars have their plates mounted. It seems every car manufacture has some sort of recessed area with some design element to it. So here is what I came up with

27894

I kind of drew different angles and lines to try and match the FFR lines, and then opposite, then ended up with what I marked above. Then I started cutting and made up some aluminum angle brackets and 5 min epoxy in to hold in place during the fiberglass lay up.

27895

The final design is that the top and bottom will go straight in, the bottom goes back 3/4" the top 1 1/2". The bottom of each side will tapper in on each side by 3/8" and the top side about 1" in on each side.

I should have it glassed in by Wednesday and will post the progress. I guess I'm not so intimidated by fiberglass work now so seems pretty easy now, just itchy!

[longislandwrx]

That.... is impressive. The way it catches all the lines, matches the taillight recesses. Absolutely awesome, what an improvement! You are going to make the people who painted already wish they hadn't. Slow clap. Well done sir.

[Santiago]

Agreed. Well played. If you're going to keep the upper panel, might as well sculpt it so it's not just a flat blank (for reference, FFR's early red S-car always bothered me here). This is a great improvement.

I actually like the hanging plate in its mock up stage. You (or like-minded others) might consider using mesh to hold it in rather than a solid fiberglass recess. Same lines, same planes, just use a mesh or perforated metal sheet. I think Ferrari is fond of this styling technique, so you can look into their rear-styling for cues. Just a thought. I think it'll be great anyway you take it.

Best,
-j

[temperacerguy]

I don't post much on here, but I wanted to say congratulations to you for such detailed write ups, and for sharing your thoughts throughout. I also have to give you kudos for jumping in with both feet into areas that you are unfamiliar with.

Just a hint to you, and others on this site. The human body's tolerance for MEKP is ZERO. I once saw a guy die who had ingested a small amount of MEKP, it was agonizing. be very careful with it.

[Santiago]

Forgot to mention, for this license plate mod, this is where a fabric cloth works much better than mat. Fabrics take on curves very well and you can actually use that quality to your advantage to quickly create the recess. As you are learning, working with fiberglass affords you many techniques to get a given job done. Here's how I would approach this (take it for what it's worth):
Practice Run
- trace outline of inner recess onto wood panel (to use as part of buck)
- lay fabric over opening, tape down edges onto gel coat (this is a practice run, so you're just seeing how the fabric will shape)
- lay wood panel in center, position as necessary, weigh down with something
You should see that the fabric will take on compound curves and perfectly match the inner recessed panel. Adjust as desired. Ideally, you would have a back up plank of wood or something, so that when you weigh down the inner wood buck it lays flat on the back up panel without shifting itself around. You'll use this later as well when laying down the initial resin.

1st Resin Run:
- sand down gel coat 2-3" around perimeter of opening
- lay fabric out as before
- weigh down or (better) screw in the inner wood buck to the back-up plank
- gently apply resin (not a ton, just enough to get glass wet, not even thoroughly wetted out), make sure it makes good contact w/sanded perimeter
- let set up and harden to partial cure
- apply more resin to fully wet out
- let set up
The concern initially is that the resin has enough weight to make the fabric sag and lose those nice planes it creates under tension. We used to do this sort of technique for woofer boxes, only we used heavy cloths (and even so, a little "sag" was part of the more organic/compound shape that was desired). I've done this with spandex as well, since it takes a very taut shape, but it is also very weight sensitive. So you want just enough at first to make the fabric stiffen up a bit, then it's ok to hit it with more resin.

After that, you can just grind off the excess fabric from the perimeter and start laying in additional layers from front/back as desired. I think once you go cloth for giving shape, you're very hesitant to do mat unless you want to quickly build up thickness.

Best,
-j

[longislandwrx]

You (or like-minded others) might consider using mesh to hold it in rather than a solid fiberglass recess.

Funny you mentioned that because I almost posted the same thing. I think he's got the right idea doing it solid first for strength though. If you choose to cut it out later and add mesh you can do it like the lower opening.

[Wayne Presley]

Wayne, thanks for elaborating.

So anyone painting their 818 needs to try and find any and all of these voids during the prep stage, or discover later and ruin the paint job.

An easy way to find them is to shine a bright light from the back side of the panel, the voids will show up as light areas.

[Mechie3]

I started sanding down the lip on the trunk yesterday so it would sit flat and noticed quite a few areas where there was a gap between the gel coat and the resin. A few corners of some body panels had even chipped in shipping due to voids.

[ehansen007]

Love all this glass work. Almost makes me want to get started with it! :)

[metalmaker12]

Yea the light trick works well!! I used a light trick in the past and on these panels is a must. I am about to de mount panels and have at it

[Scargo]

Needs to be vacuum-bagged? I expect this from aftermarket FRP. Seems like the norm. I can't wait to start.

[VD2021]

I realized today I will never get finished building my 818. Every step I come to I see an opportunity to modify!

Yeah. Makes the build seem to go on forever and quickly destroys the original budget. But it will be that much more enjoyable because you built it according to your vision.





As I mentioned earlier, my guiding principal in building is to try and look as OEM as possible.

Nice. That's the theme I have for my GTM build.

You're definitely on the right track. Your dual hoop mod is huge for the appearance. It really removes the "kit" look.

The small details like, the rear plate area and side markers really help bring an OEM or production auto them to fruition.

Great job!:cool:

[Aloha818]

That.... is impressive. The way it catches all the lines, matches the taillight recesses. Absolutely awesome, what an improvement! You are going to make the people who painted already wish they hadn't. Slow clap. Well done sir.


Agreed. Well played. If you're going to keep the upper panel, might as well sculpt it so it's not just a flat blank (for reference, FFR's early red S-car always bothered me here). This is a great improvement.

I actually like the hanging plate in its mock up stage. You (or like-minded others) might consider using mesh to hold it in rather than a solid fiberglass recess. Same lines, same planes, just use a mesh or perforated metal sheet. I think Ferrari is fond of this styling technique, so you can look into their rear-styling for cues. Just a thought. I think it'll be great anyway you take it.

Best,
-j


I don't post much on here, but I wanted to say congratulations to you for such detailed write ups, and for sharing your thoughts throughout. I also have to give you kudos for jumping in with both feet into areas that you are unfamiliar with.

Just a hint to you, and others on this site. The human body's tolerance for MEKP is ZERO. I once saw a guy die who had ingested a small amount of MEKP, it was agonizing. be very careful with it.


Love all this glass work. Almost makes me want to get started with it! :)



Yeah. Makes the build seem to go on forever and quickly destroys the original budget. But it will be that much more enjoyable because you built it according to your vision.




Nice. That's the theme I have for my GTM build.

You're definitely on the right track. Your dual hoop mod is huge for the appearance. It really removes the "kit" look.

The small details like, the rear plate area and side markers really help bring an OEM or production auto them to fruition.

Great job!:cool:

As always, thanks so much guys for taking the time to read about my progress and make positive comments! I'm glad that I'm not alone in thinking this mod will look good and not a mistake.

I didn't think about using mesh. That could look really great. I hope someone takes the initiative and tries it.

I had a little time tonight and put my first layer of fiberglass, I took Santiago's advice and used fabric. It is a little more flexible than the mat. Thanks.

[Aloha818]

An easy way to find them is to shine a bright light from the back side of the panel, the voids will show up as light areas.


I started sanding down the lip on the trunk yesterday so it would sit flat and noticed quite a few areas where there was a gap between the gel coat and the resin. A few corners of some body panels had even chipped in shipping due to voids.


Yea the light trick works well!! I used a light trick in the past and on these panels is a must. I am about to de mount panels and have at it


Needs to be vacuum-bagged? I expect this from aftermarket FRP. Seems like the norm. I can't wait to start.

Since I already painted the backside of all my panels with bedliner, I can't use this advice. But will help others, thanks for commenting!

Since I have no previous experience with working with fiberglass panels I did not have any expectations. And as Mechie posted, I too have several chipped corners. I originally hoped to vinyl wrap for a quicker simpler build, but between the actual quality of the panels, color choice, and my higher expectations of the finished product, painting is a must for me.

[longislandwrx]

27863

Go home hula girl, you are drunk.

[carbon fiber]

as far as the fg, 2x2 twill weave is the easiest to get to form around complex curves. for the panels, you can actually beat the panels gently with a stiff wire brush from the gelcoat side to find the voids if you can't see them because of the bedliner. it's going to be worth it, as you stated, it would be bad to find after paint. I mentioned in an older thread that if they made fg panels for the 818, there would probably be voids and they would require the same attention as the other ffr kits when it comes to prep. not really no paint. that said, I'd still rather have the fg panels because they're easy to modify or repair.

[metalmaker12]

The brush works very well thanks carbon !!

[carbon fiber]

glad to help, I hope everyone building an 818 is paying attention to this discussion about panel prep/voids. it would suck to get the car painted and then find them.

[Mechie3]

glad to help, I hope everyone building an 818 is paying attention to this discussion about panel prep/voids. it would suck to get the car painted and then find them.

I'm glad I found it. The more I fit the panels the more I realize it's not really a no paint body. Even if you don't paint it, it still requires almost as much work to get it good and fill in the gel coat so you might as well paint.

I got a sweet hookup yesterday. Work no longer had use for a three stage compressed air filter (particulate, water, oil) so before they tossed it they offered it to me. Score! That'll be useful for painting.

[Aloha818]

Go home hula girl, you are drunk.

Thanks for the reply, made me laugh!!

[Aloha818]

as far as the fg, 2x2 twill weave is the easiest to get to form around complex curves. for the panels, you can actually beat the panels gently with a stiff wire brush from the gelcoat side to find the voids if you can't see them because of the bedliner. it's going to be worth it, as you stated, it would be bad to find after paint. I mentioned in an older thread that if they made fg panels for the 818, there would probably be voids and they would require the same attention as the other ffr kits when it comes to prep. not really no paint. that said, I'd still rather have the fg panels because they're easy to modify or repair.


The brush works very well thanks carbon !!


I'm glad I found it. The more I fit the panels the more I realize it's not really a no paint body. Even if you don't paint it, it still requires almost as much work to get it good and fill in the gel coat so you might as well paint.

Thanks Carbon for posting the great advice and helping to promote great builds! And thanks Metalmaker and Mechie for acknowledging the benefit. This is so helpful to me and others sharing our tips for success!

And Mechie I agree with you 100%, the more prep I do for paint the more prep I see I need to do.

Having no previous experience with fiberglass body panels (except for my son's '77 vette) I don't know if this is normal or not. Having said that, for a $10k kit I'm only slightly disappointed.

I'm sure with some prep and some gel coat patching you could make the body acceptable for track use or a daily driver for fun only. Not going to win any awards at a car show probably though.

[Aloha818]

Yesterday I pretty much laid up the fiberglass for the rear license place pocket, I still need one more layer on the backside to finish it off better
28062

Today I started with some body filler
First coat
28063

Roughed in pretty good after 3 coats
28064

Started block sanding the side sail/quarter.

As I have said earlier, I'm by far not an expert, and don't claim that every step I do is absolutely correct. So double check with others/supplier what would work best for your build. For reference, this is my fifth paint and body project.

My supplier, based on the primer I'm purchased, recommends sanding the gelcoat to 320 grit. I'm a big believer in using sanding blocks. I know with experience and the right equipment air tools are faster, and in the right hands, maybe better. So since I don't have the experience, or the air tools, I'm sanding by hand. I have a 6" and a 12" block and purchased rolls of 100, 180 and 320 grits.

For those that have not sanded before it seems weird to sand rounded surfaces with a flat block. But no matter how rounded you can find a way to keep part of the block flat to the body. This is what really gets rid of waves and shows low spots in the body. After primer you will go to smaller more flexible sanding pads that take the prep even closer.
28065

So far the quarter panel was pretty "flat" through the most part. Was able to get "flat" with 320 without filler or going through the gelcoat. There is a good sized dip just behind the door, low on the panel. This pic shows that even after one pass with filler it still needs more
28066

The joint to the bumper, the top to the trunk/engine covers and the wheel well opening, needs work. I stared adding filler to the quarter side of the bumper joint. You can see in this pic that to get "flat" takes some filler for 1/8" - 1/4" away from the joint.
28067

I am doing one side of the joint at a time, protecting the other side with tape, that I carefully pull off just before the filler hardens. I need to keep the joint clear of filler to keep from cracking through later.

On a side note, I will be priming and painting with the side sails, front/rear bumpers, and front fenders on the car. Obviously the door skins, hood and trunk/engine cover off the car.

[wleehendrick]

I'm sure with some prep and some gel coat patching you could make the body acceptable for track use or a daily driver for fun only. Not going to win any awards at a car show probably though.

Agreed... a fun, reliable daily driver, capable of the occasional track day, has been my plan from the start. I have to keep reminding myself that to keep on budget. I'm not building a race car, so I have to resist most of the pricey go-fast parts I see on the forum. I'm also not building a show car, so I'm forgoing the time and expense of a nice paint job. Maybe eventually... but I'm already close to my $30k total budget, so not right away. I got the gel coat patch and will do the best I can with it. My goal is not a 100pt show car; I want it to look good from 5-10' away; I realize it won't be perfect on close inspection. I will be doing a few things to augment the white panels, so I'm hoping to pull off the 'storm trooper' look. I will look on with envy on those, like you, who have poured far more time and/or money into their 818s!

[apexanimal]

license plate area looks fantastic

[WIS89]

license plate area looks fantastic

I totally agree. This has been a great build to watch. Both the level of the build as well as the level of detail on the updates has been terrific.

I like all the custom touches being added here lately! Great stuff.

Regards,

Steve

[flynntuna]

+1 you have embraced the the hot rodding spirit and have made a lot of cool mods to make a truly unique 818. The use of fiberglass instead of thermoform panels might be a blessing, fiberglass is pretty easy to work with to modify, not sure how or if thermoformed panels can be modified.

[Aloha818]

Agreed... a fun, reliable daily driver, capable of the occasional track day, has been my plan from the start. I have to keep reminding myself that to keep on budget. I'm not building a race car, so I have to resist most of the pricey go-fast parts I see on the forum. I'm also not building a show car, so I'm forgoing the time and expense of a nice paint job. Maybe eventually... but I'm already close to my $30k total budget, so not right away. I got the gel coat patch and will do the best I can with it. My goal is not a 100pt show car; I want it to look good from 5-10' away; I realize it won't be perfect on close inspection. I will be doing a few things to augment the white panels, so I'm hoping to pull off the 'storm trooper' look. I will look on with envy on those, like you, who have poured far more time and/or money into their 818s!

Perfect! I am glad that my comments about the finish did not come across as disrespectful. The lines on the body look great and draw attention alone. In my posts I am trying to be as open and honest as possible. The kit is what the kit is and anyone ordering and buying should know what to expect. I could see with some prep, some gel coat work, and polish, the car can look amazing! But your not going to bolt it together and be 100%.

[Aloha818]

license plate area looks fantastic


I totally agree. This has been a great build to watch. Both the level of the build as well as the level of detail on the updates has been terrific.

I like all the custom touches being added here lately! Great stuff.

Regards,

Steve


+1 you have embraced the the hot rodding spirit and have made a lot of cool mods to make a truly unique 818. The use of fiberglass instead of thermoform panels might be a blessing, fiberglass is pretty easy to work with to modify, not sure how or if thermoformed panels can be modified.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the compliments and glad you are finding my mods, details and narrative beneficial.

As all of you know that are building and/or planning your build, it takes a lot of research. I try and post what I feel is missing or overlooked and what I'm doing different. Thanks for giving me feedback and let me know if you question anything.

Not much to report today, still sanding and spreading body filler. Found some low spots on the drivers door and building up the gap between the rear bumper and trunk lid. This area on my kit is very rough. And I'm not quite sure if it's how I set the body, but the engine cover/trunk lid panels combined are about 3/8" less materiel than what space there is as measured from the back side of the doors to the the top lip on the bumper. I have already added +1/8" to the front edge of the engine cover with fiberglass and today I started adding about 1/8" to the top edge of the bumper to fill and straighten. I will skim a little filler on the mating edges of the engine cover and trunk lid also to tighten up the gaps. I'm using a wooden paint stick as my gap guide.

Another FYI, every step of bodywork requires a different grit of sandpaper. Bondo likes to stick to 80-100 grit prep as it really needs a mechanical bond. The primer I'm using likes to stick to 320 grit. For my finish paint I will need to wet sand down to 600 grit. The clear coat will need 1000, then, 1500, 2000, then 3 steps of polishing pads, each with its own particular compound.

Will the sanding ever end?????

[alpine227]

yes just in time to put some more filler on...

[Erik W. Treves]

"Will the sanding ever end?????" ... nope! See ya next month... :p

[Wayne Presley]

Will the sanding ever end?????


You want to know who has two thumbs and doesn't sand? This guy! ;)

[wallace18]

You want to know who has two thumbs and doesn't sand? This guy! ;)
This guy too!

[wleehendrick]

Perfect! I am glad that my comments about the finish did not come across as disrespectful.

No, not at all. As you say, the panels are what they are. Not as pristine as I was hoping for, but with a little work, they'll be more than presentable. I've wet-sanded and compounded a few scratches out and polished/waxed about half of them, and they look pretty good. The surface finish over the large sections is actually smoother (less orange peel, etc...) than our new BMW! Once I have them mounted, I'll do the the gel-coat touch-up. I can see why FFR went for white, though... it does hide defects; this level of surface quality on a dark color would require much more work to look good.

[WIS89]

You want to know who has two thumbs and doesn't sand? This guy! ;)

Now that's funny stuff!!

If I could build as well as Wayne, I don't think I would sand either!

Regards,

Steve

[metalmaker12]

Technically you don't sand you don't really build the whole car you none sanders.

[Aloha818]

yes just in time to put some more filler on...


"Will the sanding ever end?????" ... nope! See ya next month... :p


You want to know who has two thumbs and doesn't sand? This guy! ;)


This guy too!

Well the body filler, sanding, sanding, sanding, more filler, more sanding is a real pain. Those that have the resources, both to a quality shop and financially able to pay, I applaud. But on some level there is a certain satisfaction in making every detail your own.

My backs not happy though!

[Aloha818]

Technically you don't sand you don't really build the whole car you none sanders.

You tell'm Metal! Those bad non sanders!

[Wayne Presley]

You tell'm Metal! Those bad non sanders!

I really don't like to sand and on top of it I suck at it. On the Car Warrior build I was sanding the hard top and Tony told me to quit helping him. :confused:
"A man's gotta know his limits"

[metalmaker12]

Lol, true true

[Aloha818]

Since I'm trying for an OEM look, the wide rolled off edges of the panels have to go. I'm using a paint stick as a guide during prep that will close slightly after primer, paint, clear coat.

I was able to get my body panels oriented on the frame pretty well with even gaps. Most of the panels fit tight on the paint stick at the bottom of the gaps. But the gaps really open up toward the top. So I'm roughing up all the edges with 80 grit and straightening up these edges with filler.
28126

I'm using the bottom edge of the panels as the rough guide then marking with a pencil a sand to line. After I complete the truck lid/engine cover section I will go back and round off the edges, closer to OEM look. Filler should be 1/8" or less after rounding off.
28127

While waiting on filler to dry I've been sanding the rest of the panels. Started sanding with 320 grit but areas of the panels are low and were taking too long, so I switched to 180 grit and then will go back over again with 320 grit. Since the gelcoat sands pretty good and doesn't clog up the sandpaper too much, I'm trying to get the body as close as possible now before primer. Hopefully have minimal areas that will have to be reprimed again. So I used some guide coat to help see the dips.
28128

Getting pretty close on the trunk lid
28129

28146

28147

And then out to dinner at Michelle's for my sons birthday, fantastic, if not best meal I've ever had. (Or maybe it was the champagne and 4 bottles of wine) Sunset wasn't bad either
28130

[Aloha818]

I'm not sure how FFR planned to support the rear of the engine cover/front of the trunk lid connection, maybe it's the aluminum ducting for the intercooler. Since I have water to air I haven't even looked at the ducting material. But the engine cover is a pretty good sized panel and a little heavy due to the "humps" . Couple this with the possible load I could have with my spoiler and you can see I'm in need of a solution.

As I have prepped 4 previous cars for paint, I know I need to space my sanding time out. After a week of sanding gelcoat and body filler my fingers are loosing feeling/skin. So today was the day to find a solution.

I've read what others have done, mostly a tube/bar spanning side to side over the engine. So good enough, it provides the support the panel needs. I would also like to get rid of some hood pins. So last night I was trying to think of a way to eliminate the engine cover, rear side, hood pins, and provide support also, without a heavy major structure.

So what you think of my solution? I started with thin wall 1" tube steel, cut and welded 3 bends to match the shape of the rear of the engine cover, made 4ea clips from 1" angle, cut one side down to 1/2", and tack welded about 3/32" larger gap to the lip to capture the rear of the panel. Then out of 16 ga 2" strip I made a bolting plate (7 3/4") and attached to the crossmember with 6 ea 1/4-20 rivnuts, 3 each side. With the engine cover properly supported, in the correct position, I leveled across from the bottom of the 1" tube to the mounting plates and scribed a line. I also measured from the mounting plate to the outside edge of the 1" tube for the length of the next piece of steel (5 1/4")

So I cut 2 pcs of 3/4" tube steel, squared it up on the mounting plate (now off the car) tacked it square, then cut 2 pieces of 1/8" x 2" steel on an angle each side for a brace. Then tacked it all together.

Then bolted the mounting plate/angle/3/4" tube back to the crossmember, positioned the engine cover back in its correct position, slid the 1" tube back in place over the lip, and tacked the 1" tube to the supports.

Now you can slightly lift the front of the engine cover up and out of the rear support, and slid it right back in, no more hood pins requires there and you can stand on the brace if you wanted to. All removable with 6 screws. I still need to clean everything up and paint etc, but you can get an idea what I'm talking about;

28191

28192

28193

Now back to sanding and glassing in two unneeded hood pin holes!

[Xusia]

Nice!

[AZPete]

Nice! X2
Watching, and probably copying.

[Aloha818]

Nice!


X2
Watching, and probably copying.

Thanks guys for commenting.

I have spent some more time fine tuning the fitment of the steel brace and have it dialed in now. For a reference, what worked for me was to have the center of the engine cover about 1 1/4" higher than the top outer edge of the fender as measured at the engine cover/trunk joint. At this height the trunk lid is almost perfectly curved to match the rear bumper. The driver rear corner of the trunk, lid has been high, but now almost flat with no alteration to it.

28235

Now that I am getting the fitment dialed it and the joints closer and tighter, this car is a sexy beast!

28239

So now that the rear of the engine cover is locked in and supported, time for the front of it.

Since I had slid the engine cover rearward about a 1/4" to tighten up the trunk gaps I needed to glass in the front of it to close the gap to the doors, too much for just filler. I had already placed two layers of mat. So this area is now pretty solid, with two more layers of mat to go. So I cut a couple pieces of 1/8" steel the shape of the inside of the forward section of the engine cover, cleaned up the glass, spread a layer of 20 min epoxy, and secured it with 3/16" rivets.

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Then from 1" angle I started fabricating the receiver bracket that will mount to the body. I cut about halfway through the angle to make it easier to increase the angle from 90* to an angle that matches the slope of the front of the engine cover, and then placed a couple welds to hold the new angle. I ran out of time today to actually mount and complete, but the plan is to use two 1/4"-20 screws per bracket to hold to the body, and then one 1/4"-20 screw going through the fiberglass and imbedded steel plate into the angle that I will tap.

28241

I know this will require me to keep an allen wrench in the car to be able to check coolant, oil, etc. but I think will look better than the FFR stock hood pins, as the screw will not be visible unless the door is open.

[metalmaker12]

Nice, looking good.

[Oppenheimer]

Any way to fit dzus fasteners instead of the button head allens for those cover mounts? That way no tool or time needed to remove the cover.

Or better yet, some sort of hidden catch mechanism, where you can have a cable pull level pop them open. Kinda like mini hood releases, etc. Maybe something available at McMaster-Carr?

[Scargo]

+1 for Oppenheimer ideas.

[Aloha818]

Nice, looking good.

Thanks!


Any way to fit dzus fasteners instead of the button head allens for those cover mounts? That way no tool or time needed to remove the cover.

Or better yet, some sort of hidden catch mechanism, where you can have a cable pull level pop them open. Kinda like mini hood releases, etc. Maybe something available at McMaster-Carr?


+1 for Oppenheimer ideas.

Thanks for commenting!

Absolutely, there are lots of options. For me I'm going to be happy with a screw in the door jamb area. There are already 3 exposed screws holding the latch and 2 screws holding the catch. I will probably use a tapered head that flushes with the body and paint to match the car, and since this portion of the engine cover is slanted it will be hard to see. Obviously less visible than the hood pins it replaces, with little fab time.

I was able to finish it up this morning. Turned out great! I positioned the bracket on the body in such a way that the locking screw puts a little pressure rearward and helps hold the panel tight to the clips in the rear.

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[RM1SepEx]

I'm going to do something similar but to the inside as I'm concerned about door clearance and I haven't even attempted bolting them up yet!

(too much time getting equipment ready for summer! Working on the John Deere tractor just ain't the same!)

[Aloha818]

I'm going to do something similar but to the inside as I'm concerned about door clearance and I haven't even attempted bolting them up yet!

(too much time getting equipment ready for summer! Working on the John Deere tractor just ain't the same!)

Bummer you have to share time with John Deere! My Hula Girl is much too jealous for me to share time. (Well that and the benefit of living in a high rise)

The great thing about this kit and this forum, so interesting to find opportunities for a better outcome and how as a group, the many solutions. When I came to the resolution that I needed to spend the time to eliminate the hood pins I saw Wayne's solution with the locking screw to the inside. I couldn't figure out how to transfer the holding strength from the inside to the outside without making the bracket more complicated. So simple me, simple solution.

I added two more layers of mat to the front edge, burying the rivets and filling the gap to the door. I will probably use a tapered, flush faced screw, but even the FFR supplied washer headed screw works

28260

With each little move and a bit a time, I have been able to get the fitment of the body panels pretty good. I would also suspect that as I add supports and leave the panels in place they are "conforming" to the body shape some. Where when I started the panels seemed a little twisted they are now fitting. Glassing in the opening tighter around the hoop support, with the panel jigged up to the opening width, has also made a big difference

28261

My steel buddy is planning on welding in the new double hoops this weekend (certified welder, I don't trust my welding capabilities), can't wait to see how it fits! I will probably glass in around those openings also as I suspect that since this area is cut so close to the edge that the glass might try and crack here also.

Well, back to sanding, and filling, and sanding.....

[Aloha818]

I spent over 8 hours filling and sanding and glassing in 4 now unneeded hood pin holes in the engine cover today. I have about finished filling/straitening the gaps. All this time and not much to show, but if you've gotten to the point of setting body panels then you know how much space needs to be filled.

28274

I'm hoping another day and I will have the engine cover, trunk, rear quarters and bumper ready for primer, but will probably run into two.

[metalmaker12]

Good work, I hope to get some time over the next couple months to do the same. Your gaps look better than FFR cars. They left more of a gap between bonnets. I am going to do what your doing and fill rear section and try to make the gaps more even.

[ruckus racing]

Coming along fantastic

[Mechie3]

I like how yours looks, just not sure I have the patience or time to do it myself now.

[Aloha818]

Good work, I hope to get some time over the next couple months to do the same. Your gaps look better than FFR cars. They left more of a gap between bonnets. I am going to do what your doing and fill rear section and try to make the gaps more even.


Coming along fantastic


I like how yours looks, just not sure I have the patience or time to do it myself now.

Thanks Metal, Ruckus, and Mechie!

Yes, it is going to take too many man hours to do all this gap filling. But I want to be like Wayne's car at SEMA, people looking at his 818 with a Lamborghini parked next to it!

I'm not done yet, so let's see how it turns out!

[Aloha818]

My steel friend came through and fabricated the hoops and came by today and we finished grinding the FFT mounting points to fit and welded them in!

I am super excited on how they look and how it changes the overall design of the car. I ran over the the finished welds with a sanding disk and a quick shot of semi-gloss black. I will detail the steel with filler as needed to smooth out some of the deflection created by the bending, but very minor, then prep the same as the rest of the body, 2K primer and paint with the same black body paint.

The seats are sitting on the floor pan, might end up raising them a touch. No notching of the pocket in the humps required. I will be glassing the notches tighter to the hoops as I did to the brace.

FYI, the top of the hoops are the same height as the FFR bar it replaced, and weld in all the same bracing points. The outside legs were moved in about a half an inch to better clear the notch in the engine cover humps, and then centered on the humps. The center of the seats and the center of the hoops are about 3/4" off from each other. I had to pick once to center with, and the hoops actually touch the humps so it makes sense to pick the humps.

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[Canadian818]

Wow! looks amazing, seriously kudos dude. Anyone not planning to track their cars will be deeply considering copying you. I'm not sure why FFR didn't consider this an option, just completes the twin rear humps look. Brilliant...

[thestigwins]

Everything looks great. I have to admit that every night I load up the forum hoping you have posted some sort of update. I love the idea of the hoops. Are you planning to get rid of the hood mount pins as well like wayne did?

[Santiago]

Very cool! I don't doubt this will be a much-desired modification for street cars. The look really fits the car.

Best,
-j

[flynntuna]

+1 the dual hoops look real good. Me thinks your understating your rookie status.

[Aloha818]

Wow! looks amazing, seriously kudos dude. Anyone not planning to track their cars will be deeply considering copying you. I'm not sure why FFR didn't consider this an option, just completes the twin rear humps look. Brilliant...


Everything looks great. I have to admit that every night I load up the forum hoping you have posted some sort of update. I love the idea of the hoops. Are you planning to get rid of the hood mount pins as well like wayne did?


Very cool! I don't doubt this will be a much-desired modification for street cars. The look really fits the car.

Best,
-j


+1 the dual hoops look real good. Me thinks your understating your rookie status.

Thanks all for following my build and I'm glad you like the double hoops also.

Canadian818, I imagine that if FFR started having many options to the base kit that the overall price would have to go up. Negative for many of us. Plus, this lets us get creative in our own way!

Thestigwins, I will be deleting the 4 front hood pins also. Still working out exactly what I'm going to do, but the rough idea is that I will glass in a 1 1/2" wide strip of metal across the rear of the hood, in line with the deleted rear hood pin location. I will arch the strip to match the profile that will be jigged up to the width I need to keep even gaps to the fenders. I will make up some receiving brackets (similar to what I used on the engine cover) that will be welded to the embedded metal strip. Then weld up a bracket that attaches to the frame that will hold into the receiver. These will be located out of the way if the future wiper, and oriented so that after you remove the locking screws in the front, you push the hood rearward about a 1/4" to disengage.

On the front of the hood I will glass in two pieces of metal U shaped metal, glass in supporting steel in the front bumper, that will have 2 screws going up into the hood steel that will be out of sight.

Still a concept at this time, after I finish the rear and sides a I'll start on the front and update.

Santiago, in the spirit of me going after an OEM fit and finish I didn't have a choice not to change. Never seen a production car with a straight across roll bar, only double hoops.

Flynntuna, I'm in my early fifties, before 2006 I never changed my own oil. Then watching an episode of Trucks (I think), they rebuilt a 1979 Jeep Cherokee, I thought it look fun, found one cheap, and went for it. Rebuilt the engine, put a 6" lift, paint and body work, you name it. Fun except for the rust! To me I'm a rookie, you decide!

[wleehendrick]

Flynntuna, I'm in my early fifties, before 2006 I never changed my own oil. Then watching an episode of Trucks (I think), they rebuilt a 1979 Jeep Cherokee, I thought it look fun, found one cheap, and went for it. Rebuilt the engine, put a 6" lift, paint and body work, you name it. Fun except for the rust! To me I'm a rookie, you decide!

You were a rookie when you took on the Cherokee... you're an official gear-head now!

[Oppenheimer]

Wow. That one single mod, dual hoops, by far shakes off more 'kit' from this car than anything else. Its obvious many will be copying this. I'm sure some also thought of it on their own too, but you are the first to do it, and it came out fantastic.

I imagine FFR is seeing how great that looks, and I would expect this to be one of the future refinements they very seriously consider for the 818S MkII. If there is any feasible way to do it, without affecting the cost too much, I imagine they will make it part of the S chassis. It looks that good.

[Xusia]

The double hoops look sick, man! :)

[flynntuna]

Flynntuna, I'm in my early fifties, before 2006 I never changed my own oil. Then watching an episode of Trucks (I think), they rebuilt a 1979 Jeep Cherokee, I thought it look fun, found one cheap, and went for it. Rebuilt the engine, put a 6" lift, paint and body work, you name it. Fun except for the rust! To me I'm a rookie, you decide![/QUOTE]


Whether your a rookie or not is really beside the point. From what I see from your build thread is that you have a real talent in both vision and the execution of that vision. The mods that you have done on your project are trend setting and I'm sure will be copied by a lot of builders in the future. :cool:

[Aloha818]

You were a rookie when you took on the Cherokee... you're an official gear-head now!

Thanks! I have always loved cars. I've had Z's, BMW's, Porsche's, etc, and usually had performance mods added (by others of course). I even had a supercharger installed on my H2. But every time I work on my own stuff I learn how much I don't know! Then back for more research.


Wow. That one single mod, dual hoops, by far shakes off more 'kit' from this car than anything else. Its obvious many will be copying this. I'm sure some also thought of it on their own too, but you are the first to do it, and it came out fantastic.

I imagine FFR is seeing how great that looks, and I would expect this to be one of the future refinements they very seriously consider for the 818S MkII. If there is any feasible way to do it, without affecting the cost too much, I imagine they will make it part of the S chassis. It looks that good.

Thanks very much for your comments and I'm glad this mod is meeting with positive feedback. FFR obviously has some talent on board, so I would assume they had to of weighed the pro's and con's of dual/single hoops in the final shipping version. It would seem to me to be a really easy option to add to their list though.


The double hoops look sick, man! :)

Thank you, thank you. (One for each hoop)

[Aloha818]

Flynntuna, I'm in my early fifties, before 2006 I never changed my own oil. Then watching an episode of Trucks (I think), they rebuilt a 1979 Jeep Cherokee, I thought it look fun, found one cheap, and went for it. Rebuilt the engine, put a 6" lift, paint and body work, you name it. Fun except for the rust! To me I'm a rookie, you decide!


Whether your a rookie or not is really beside the point. From what I see from your build thread is that you have a real talent in both vision and the execution of that vision. The mods that you have done on your project are trend setting and I'm sure will be copied by a lot of builders in the future. :cool:[/QUOTE]

My Hula Girl is blushing with pride! Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated. All this extra work was not part of my original plan. But since I realized I was going to have to paint the car, coupled with the fact that the more time I spend working on it the more I appreciate the FFR design, made me want to try even harder to build it up to the best of my ability. The car responds well to improvements. The double hoops for me add just a little more to the OEM look I'm going for.

[Aloha818]

For those interested here are a couple more pics of the hoops that show better how they are welded in

Drivers side
28436

Passenger side
28437

[Aloha818]

I have just about finished setting the gaps on the trunk and engine cover.

The gap between the engine cover and the trunk I set to about 3/16" and followed the curve of the humps as a guide.
28438

Setting the gaps is not all about just adding filler. On my kit most of the panels are tight at the bottom of the gap, but really open and rounded at the top. In this pic of the trunk lid you can see that on the bottom of the trunk lid I sanded into the fiberglass, then a thin line of gelcoat, then filler. The edge of the panel is plumb and this much variance in less than 5/8"
28440

There are variances from side to side of the actual body panels. The height of the engine cover to the fender on the drivers side is really close. In this pic you can see that filer was only required to fill the large radius.
28439

As apposed to the passenger side which required filler in about 7-8" and about 1/8" thick at the fender side to level out. On both side the lip of the engine cover is notched to be level with the fenders so that the bottom of the trunk would be flat.
28441

I pretty much finished the sides of the engine cover also today, but was running late and didn't get to take any pics.

[Aloha818]

Ok, so I know that bodywork, body filler, and sanding is boring boring boring. But it has to be done, hopefully by others! But, since I'm a cheapskate and I want it how I want I want it, it's all up to me. It's more fun to read about engine tweaking, performance parts, etc. Before I started I looked at all the previous builds, but not much info on body lines, time frames, products etc. So, right or wrong, here is what I'm doing.

First off, really check your gelcoat for air pockets! Here is a just a couple that I have found so far
28606

28607

When I find one I try to keep digging around it to make sure I have all the loose material out, and then some.

I also found a couple weird spots on the rear number when I was sanding. One by the drivers taillight and one about in the center of the bumper on the ledge area under my license plate mod. I didn't see them until I was sanding, but it looks like the gelcoat spider cracked from an impact, but there is not any damage and no way to use that logic for the area in the middle of the bumper. So what I did to repair was use my Dremel and cut out the gelcoat, but did not dig into the fiberglass, then just filled with body filler.

28608

I swear that two different people designed the back and the front. The front gaps are too tight and rear gaps are way too loose. The rear bumper can only attach the the quarter one way and the trunk lid and the engine cover together are almost 1/2" too short to cover the distance. I have added about 1/8" of filler on the back bumper to trunk edge, and between the trunk lid and engine cover about 1/8" of filler, and on the front of the engine cover I have added a good 1/4" of fiberglass with another almost 1/8" of filler.

Another issue is the quarter panel recess to contain the engine cover. The passenger side was rough but close in form and height, the drivers side was way short and very rough. Both sides required building up with filler to get the detail to look right.

28609

28610

So the way I shaped the top of the quarters was to keep the FFR body line and level across to the engine cover and trunk lid. You can see in the pics that to do so required filler toward the gap. Then coming forward I slowly started letting the flat spot on top of the quarter fad into the body side.

The other area that has kind if had me stumped was how the top of the rear bumper, the top of the quarters, and the side of the quarters all came together. The only close up pic I have seen is Wayne's. Obviously Wayne's car looks great and the extra stripping and paint colors really make it pop. But you can see in his pic that they built up the leading edge of the bumper/trunk gap with filler and how they made all the body lines come together. I tried to shape all the points to flow through each other and keep the body lines going in both directions. This required sanding deep into the gelcoat on the top of the rear bumper. It's hard to see in pics but I think it's coming out as I hoped it would.

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Stay tuned, tomorrow I will show pics with the trunk lid and engine cover in place. All with the edges rounded etc.

As a rough idea of time I have about 40 hours so far in sanding, filling and shaping just the rear area so far. All sanding before and after filler is with 80 grit, then after filler with 180 grit then down to 320 grit to be ready for filler.

[Boog]

Very impressive.


First off, really check your gelcoat for air pockets! Here is a just a couple that I have found so far
What method are you using to check for air pockets? I've seen people use back-lighting but since you coated the back side of the panels that probably doesn't work anymore.


All sanding before and after filler is with 80 grit, then after filler with 180 grit then down to 320 grit to be ready for filler.
So 80, 180, 320, apply filler and repeat ad nauseam?

[carbon fiber]

Glad you found those voids! Two thumbs up for covering the bodywork process in your thread, it'll help a lot of builders that didn't know about voids/fg repairs/bodywork. In my opinion, it should be part of the ffr build manual.

[Brando]

the gelcoat spider cracked from an impact, but there is not any damage and no way to use that logic for the area in the middle of the bumper. So what I did to repair was use my Dremel and cut out the gelcoat, but did not dig into the fiberglass, then just filled with body filler.

28608

I have a spider crack that matches yours in shape and location. I'm just leaving mine because I fall on the opposite end of the spectrum as far as attention to detail on fit and finish. You are an ANIMAL. Your reveals are looking nearly perfect. I bet your pretty excited to paint this after all your hard work. What color are you going with?

[metalmaker12]

Me too

[Aloha818]

Very impressive.


What method are you using to check for air pockets? I've seen people use back-lighting but since you coated the back side of the panels that probably doesn't work anymore.


So 80, 180, 320, apply filler and repeat ad nauseam?

Boog, thanks, and hanks for asking.

A stiff wire brush, accidentally, and when I cut the hole for the vent in the top DS engine cover a large (nickel sized) piece of gelcoat cracked loose and was hollow under.

I'm blocking first with 180 to see where filler might need to be used, then if needed I rough up the area with 80. Every before and after with filler sees 80 first. Every product needs it's required grit to hold tight and what will cover. Filler needs 80 grit, and my primer needs 320, both to grab and to cover.

[Aloha818]

Glad you found those voids! Two thumbs up for covering the bodywork process in your thread, it'll help a lot of builders that didn't know about voids/fg repairs/bodywork. In my opinion, it should be part of the ffr build manual.

Thanks Carbon Fiber. I found more earlier on, but didn't realize it was part of a bigger issue and filled them before I took pics. I hope what I'm posting is mostly accurate. With bodywork I know there are many ways to skin the cat! But this could at least inform others as to the process, so when they get a $5k-$10k price for a quality paint job they know what is required to get there.

As far as the FFR manual, it's supposed to be no paint remember!

[Aloha818]

I have a spider crack that matches yours in shape and location. I'm just leaving mine because I fall on the opposite end of the spectrum as far as attention to detail on fit and finish. You are an ANIMAL. Your reveals are looking nearly perfect. I bet your pretty excited to paint this after all your hard work. What color are you going with?

Brando thanks for commenting! Interesting about the cracks. Must be how they pop the panel out of the mold?

I am probably going overboard and a true bodyman could have done done this work in a couple of days. With experience you learn what shortcuts to take and what will cover and what won't. So I have to go a little farther to make sure.

Asking me today, my color of choice is metallic black.

[Aloha818]

Other than a couple small touch ups I finally finished prepping the quarters, rear bumper, trunk lid and engine cover. As you can see not much filler spread all over the place, but I still went through almost 1/2 gallon. The engine cover and trunk lid are just sitting in place, no screws or attachment. Where the trunk lid used to stick up at each corner now lays flat. This due only continual panel adjustments.
28713

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Here is a closer pic of the trunk lid/DS fender/bumper meeting. After paint I will be adding some aluminum across the front of the rear bumper for the trunk compartment. I will use that support to tighten the gap to the trunk lid, right now it opens up almost an extra 1/8" in the center.

28716

For some reason the rear of the quarters are nicely finished where they attach to the rear bumper, but the rear bumper where it connects to the rear of the quarters is pretty rough. Very little filler required on the quarter, but more than touch-up required for the bumper side. Same for both sides of the car.
28718

So I made a couple little changes to the fender wells. As shipped there is a flat angle designed around all the fender wells, and then at the quarter to bumper connection the flange kind of sticks out and the bumper section is a little wider and tapered compared to the quarter.
28723

So I sanded deep into the gelcoat, removed the angled line and rounded over the entire edge of the fender wells, I also straightened the return lip and cut back the flange at an angle so it is less visible.
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Now the edge just looks like rolled metal.

Probably no updates next week, off to the mainland for business till Thursday.

Here is a side shot, in my opinion, starting to look pretty good!

28727

[Boog]

Will you be spraying with the quarter panels and rear bumper on the car? Or will you be removing all panels to spray each individually?

The gap between the two, or lack there of, is very uniform but a different width than all the other lines on the car. It makes me wonder what the result would be if someone took the easy road and just bolted/glassed/filled the three as a single piece for more of a clam shell look. A fender bender would be significantly more costly though.

Something about the curve/roll of the bumper as it trails off around the front and back of the rear tire make it look like vehicle costing many times the typical $20k-$35k that will go into most 818's. Its amazing how attention to detail on body work and interior really are the dividing line between OEM and "kit car."

[carbon fiber]

I forgot to mention it earlier, but before filling voids make sure and scuff the inside of the void up just like any other time you'd be prepping for the surface to grip. If it's too small to get sandpaper into, I take a scratch awl and scrape the inside of it to scuff it up.

[Scargo]

Best to use a Dremel and get inside and undercut it like the way they do tooth fillings.

[Aloha818]

Will you be spraying with the quarter panels and rear bumper on the car? Or will you be removing all panels to spray each individually?

The gap between the two, or lack there of, is very uniform but a different width than all the other lines on the car. It makes me wonder what the result would be if someone took the easy road and just bolted/glassed/filled the three as a single piece for more of a clam shell look. A fender bender would be significantly more costly though.

Something about the curve/roll of the bumper as it trails off around the front and back of the rear tire make it look like vehicle costing many times the typical $20k-$35k that will go into most 818's. Its amazing how attention to detail on body work and interior really are the dividing line between OEM and "kit car."

Been on the mainland most of the week, then one of my friends that own HIFI Hawaii had a grand opening of his store after a remodel that I helped with, so today was my first day back on the 818.

I'm still undecided on pulling all the panels and priming/painting or leave on what I can. Today I'm leaning toward taking everything off and painting individually. Mainly in case I ever need to pull an engine or trans I'll know that the paint should not chip off. Which could happen if painted all together.

Thanks for the positive comments about the sanding/prep around the fenders. I agree, it really add a little class with the rounded edges.


I forgot to mention it earlier, but before filling voids make sure and scuff the inside of the void up just like any other time you'd be prepping for the surface to grip. If it's too small to get sandpaper into, I take a scratch awl and scrape the inside of it to scuff it up.

Thanks, good info. I also clean the area with lacquer thinner to remove any contaminates.


Best to use a Dremel and get inside and undercut it like the way they do tooth fillings.

That's what I did with the spider cracks too. But mostly I dig out whatever I can with a knife. Once you have to pull out the filler no reason to be shy on how much you dig out.

[Aloha818]

I finally finished prepping the rear half of the car for primer, all filled and sanded down to 320. Prep should be about 95% complete.

First up on the front is too add supports and delete the hood pins from the hood. I wish I would have made this decision before I installed and drilled the hood for the pins!

I will make a couple angle brackets on each side of the front of the hood that will match a pair of angle brackets on the side of the fenders. But first I started on a center support/catch toward the rear of the hood. For the operation of the hood you will remove two screws, visible only from down low (similar to the ones on the headlight supports), then slide the hood rearward about an inch to slide out of the rear catches, then raise up and off.

I made a 1" wide steel bracket with a slot in it to receive a 1 1/2" piece of steel, sort of male/female connection with the hood having the female side. I cleaned the area and roughed up the steel then used 15 min epoxy to attach. I will glass in the bracket later to help spread the load, but with just the epoxy I couldn't pry it loose after just 30 mins.
28978

Then I fabricated a tripod of sorts out of 1" tube steel with a 1 1/2" wide piece of steel for the male portion of the connection. The tube steel will act as a stop. FYI, from the top of the 1" FFR tube frame to the underside of the hood I set at 5 1/4"
28979

This area of the hood has a couple bends in the fiberglass so the solid support should strengthen the whole center area, bracket just under the Hula Girl for reference.
28980

Next I will fabricate a similar designed bracket on each side of the hood to the rear, that will catch after the center bracket catches, maybe by 1/2". Then on installing the hood I can make sure the center catches then slide a little more forward and make sure each rear side catches, then install the front two screws.

I am making all of my extra supports and brackets removable and will send out for powder coating.

Maybe a little more work to remove the hood than with hood pins, but not much, and nothing visible.

[Brando]

28715

Without body pins my engine cover sits 1" over the bumper out the most outside points.
How did you get your rear engine cover to contour to the top of the bumper like this? It's so nice!

[Aloha818]

Without body pins my engine cover sits 1" over the bumper out the most outside points.
How did you get your rear engine cover to contour to the top of the bumper like this? It's so nice!

Brando! thanks for the compliment! What helped most was building the brace that holds the rear of the engine cover. The brace was made with a slight curve rising in the middle. (Reference post #451 for specifics) Raising the front/center of the trunk lid let the rear corners lay down. Also making sure all the return lips on the panels were sanded down/adjusted to match the adjacent panels. Right now my trunk lid sticks up about 1/8" without any fasteners/pins etc.

[Aloha818]

Since today was Mothers Day I would feel guilty spending any more time than 3 hours with my Hula Girl.

I was able to get the rear passenger side hood pin delete bracket fabbed up and installed, proof of concept.

For the hood portion I cut a 3 1/4" long piece of 1" x1/8" plate steel and cut a little grab piece to weld on, then using 5 min epoxy stuck it on (after some time laying out the receiving bracket)
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Then for the frame mount I cut a 2 3/8" long piece of 1" square tube stock and welded a 2" long piece of 1 1/4" x 1/8" plate stock on one end. Then cut a slot in the flat stock that stops about halfway through the center of the tube steel. The notch is slightly wider at the entry end to make it a little easier to guide the hood into place. Then with a little time spent getting the exact height and location figured out, tacked it in. This is exactly over the FFR hood pin location, FYI.
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Works great! Set the hood down on the car, about 1" rearward from the correct location, centered side to side, start pulling forward, the rear bracket guides the hood straight and the center catch grabs and then about 3/8" from the correct location the rear starts locking in. Pretty excited on how well it's going so far.
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One question though. I've followed every build so far and in every front end pic of every car, including FFR's cars, for some reason it looks like where the front of the hood meets the bumper the front line doesn't quite match up to the bumper. I know on mine, the area where the hood passes between the center of the bumper, is too tight. I cut a slice out on each side of the bumper that I will glass in to make enough room for a continuous even gap. So I'm not sure that by me making that cut helped or not on the front line up, but so far mine is pretty close. In this pic both the rear hood pin delete brackets are installed and the hood is pulled as far forward as the brackets will allow, but no front brackets yet. Just C clamps to hold elevation.
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[Aloha818]

I pretty much finished the hood pin delete project today. I have a couple little adjustments to make and weld in a couple nuts on the front brackets.

First up I needed to slice a little more material out of the bumper on each side of where the hood passes through. Then used some 5 min epoxy to hold together until I take the bumper off and do a proper glass repair on the backside. In the following two pics you can see the gaps are a little closer, a lot closer that how it was shipped.
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Then I fabbed up a couple of brackets to attach to the hood. I used the same process as the other brackets, cleaned off the bed liner and roughed up both the glass and the metal bracket, then used 5 min epoxy to secure. I will glass in all brackets after I'm happy with all fitment.
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Then with a little trial and error, and mock up, I fabbed up the brackets to mount to the side of the bumper
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Then with a single 1/4" x20 hex head screw on each front side of the hood, accessible just under the hood lip, the hood is secured. With these 5 brackets the hood is supported and held secure. The hood cannot move up or down, side to side, or forward or rearward.
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Now I can start to fill/sand/adjust the hood to the fenders/bumper for an even better fit and finish!

[Mechie3]

I really don't like this thread.







Each time I open it I find new things to do. :p Great work!

[RM1SepEx]

I can't accept that cutting the nose on both sides was needed to allow proper hood gaps... It looks to me as if the lip on the hood doesn't go down at a 90 degree angle as it does over most of the hood, the "lip" seems to flare out at the area where the hood and front clip meet between the headlights. I'm wondering if I can improve the fit with some heat and persuasion...

I'm limited as I haven't given up on a no-paint car.

do you have the aluminum panel to cover the master cylinder access hole that includes a rubber support for the rear/center of the hood?

[Aloha818]

I really don't like this thread.








Each time I open it I find new things to do. :p Great work!

Thanks for commenting! I'm not sure if I hate this thread or myself for not building as delivered. I guess when I'm done if everything looks good Ill look back and say it was worth it. But spending whole days just to get two feet of body lines to look the way I want seems excessive!

[Aloha818]

I can't accept that cutting the nose on both sides was needed to allow proper hood gaps... It looks to me as if the lip on the hood doesn't go down at a 90 degree angle as it does over most of the hood, the "lip" seems to flare out at the area where the hood and front clip meet between the headlights. I'm wondering if I can improve the fit with some heat and persuasion...

I'm limited as I haven't given up on a no-paint car.

do you have the aluminum panel to cover the master cylinder access hole that includes a rubber support for the rear/center of the hood?

RM1SepEx, thanks for reading and posting!

I didn't want to accept that I needed to to cut into the bumper to make the hood gap right either. I also didn't want to accept that on the passenger side I have all but cut off almost all of the hood return lip on the last two inches too. But that is what feels like to me to be the best use of time to get the best result. But maybe my body parts are worse than yours or others.

I wouldn't give up on a no paint car. For sure you can get the body adjusted, repaired and patched with gelcoat. Boats get damaged all the time. They cut out whole sections of fiberglass, make repairs, and patch back the gelcoat with little to no visible defects after. It just take time and skill.

I do not think I was ever sent the cover for the master cylinder or the rubber support for the hood. If not, I can just make the cover how I want, and I don't need the hood support since I made my own.

[Aloha818]

With my success on deleting the 4 hood pins on the hood behind me, I started prepping for primer/paint.

Since making the front of the hood/bumper location is really my only real body issue on the front half of the car I started there. How this area finishes out is what will guide the finish on the rest of the hood/fender relationship.

With the hood now fully anchored, I came back to the area of the bumper that I sliced to make some room for a decent gap. I ended up cutting open some of the gap again to better dial in the height in relation to the height of the hood. Again with 5 min epoxy for now.

Then to continue on my quest for flush panels and even gaps, out came the filler. I have been mixing up about the size of a large tablespoon at a time for most of my "adjustments". Since the fiberglass will sand as fast as the filler, and based on my experience, I'm afraid of mixing too much at one time. A little easier on metal since the metal can give the sanding block a point of reference when your shaping the panel. So after 4 rounds of spreading and sanding here is where I'm at.

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So panel to panel is dead even. I now have the gaps roughed in. When you start spreading filler you can make anything and change everything. So the "plan" I used for the filler in this area was to keep the FFR lines on the bumper to come across the hood and meld into the radius front. The hood has the basis of this concept as delivered, but the corners were so rounded off that it was kind of hard to recognize at first. In the first pic above you can still see some of my "control" lines on the bumper. This did carry over on to the hood but were sanded off with the 180 grit round. I'm pretty happy, at this point, with the shape and gaps. Hopefully I'll feel the same after a couple coats of primer!

[Scargo]

I love being a critic. With all the great things you are doing to the bodywork, I have a few suggestions... that might make it even better looking.
Looking at the front (the first of the last three images), there are the vertical slits. I think you can improve on the full radiused ends. I suggest they more follow the body lines (above and below) and have four small radii more consistent with all the others on the car; perhaps no more than a 1/4".
For the two trapezoidal openings, which seem like they might be for brake ducts, what about eliminating the lip around the opening and have all those faces go straight back? I think that would give it a cleaner, more production molded, plastic look. Beef it up on the backside if you are worried about strength.
Keep up the good work and keep feeding us.