Challenge Series Rule Changes for 2014

[Tuck60]

Where are the proposed rule changes discussed....is it on this forum? Who are the decision makers?

Mike Tuck
#60

[Mark Dougherty]

Crickets
I guess everyone is happy.
LOL
I think standardize gears to 308
open injectors to any brand 24# same style.
I know Brian was talking about different tires
I hope this gets some dialog going.
Later
Mark D

[R.T. Tavi]

Not already 2013 is still going.
Keep all three gears 308,327,273, still have not run Road America yet with the 308, only the 273. Went to MO instead this year.
Injectors is there a problem with Trick Flow stuff?
No, No, No, Keep the RA1, NOT ANOTHER TIRE CHANGE, if you going to change anything with tires how about a REAL RAIN TIRE.
and if you are going to change give us a year to do it and make the Toyo bucks longer than 90 days.
Here is a thought, I'd be willing to give up the Toyo bucks to be able pick a Manufacturer, style, compound and stick with it, most likely save money in the end.
I like Phil's wings and air dams, looks good. Just kidding.:rolleyes:

Lyle 09

[Tuck60]

My thoughts are:

Keep all three gears
Allow .8X 5th gear
Allow hydraulic actuated clutch
Ignition system will need to be addressed maybe not next year but will have to be on the table in the next few years and I would suggest a MSD system
Cobra rear brakes and rotor
Agree with Mark on allowing any 24 lb. injectors

Mike
#60

[avgjoe]

I vote NONE!

[FFRSpec72]

I would be OK with no changes but would like to see:

1. Different tires, the RA-1 are not that sticky, need more grip
2. Front air dam, lets us use any material we want, that aluminum sucks after a few FIA curbs
3. Rear GT brakes and rotors (11.5")

[FFSpecRacer]

Don't just suggest a rule change...... Please give a rational for it.

As for the tires, that will have nothing to do with us. NASA will be making that call all by themselves.

[mhoward1]

As stated before, main Cap or other rotating part girdles. They won't offer any performance advantage other that possible better reliability since we are substaining much higher RPM's than in seasons past. It may help with any possible crank/cap walk, and maybe some push rod wandering.

[Tuck60]

Keep all three gears - all three are being currently used. Some like the 3.27's and others like the 3.08's.

Allow .8X 5th gear - the current .6x gear ratio is worthless on the track. I for one would like to have the 3.27's and the .8x 5th gear. This would allow the car do well on the short and long tracks.

Allow hydraulic actuated clutch - just for looks; the cable works fine but is so 80's and I would like to have the option to shed the cable.

Ignition system will need to be addressed maybe not next year but will have to be on the table in the next few years and I would suggest a MSD system. The current system is 20+ years old, good parts are very expensive and the cheap ones are unreliable. The MSD system would be reliable and inexpensive.

Cobra rear brakes and rotor - a much more balanced approach to the large front brakes. Also would eliminate having to buy the Turbo Coupe brakes and re-drilling them for the 5 hole pattern.

Agree with Mark on allowing any 24 lb. injectors - there has been reliability issues with the current 24 lb injectors.

Anything that increases reliability and series growth should be on the table. The concept of buying a challenge car kit and a 20+ year old donor mustang to compete in the series has probably runs its course.

[FFRSpec72]

I'm not in favor of:

1. hydraulic actuated clutch, does not add any value
2. Ignition system change, what we have works fine and I can find parts cheap and don't want to give MSD any of my $$$$
3. .8X 5th gear, see no advantage, the lack of aero and HP we have the 4th gear is about all we can use
4. Current 10.5" GT rotors and calipers seems to work well, no need to change

Would like to see and why:
1. Different tires, the RA-1 are not that sticky, need more grip, with the HP change, I can spin these tires in almost any corner, I understand the Toyo bucks but would give that up for real tires
2. Front air dam, lets us use any material we want, that aluminum sucks after a few FIA curbs, I see no reason why we are limited to the aluminum material, it's brittle hard to repair

[Tuck60]

I like the idea of a better racing tire; from what I understand there will be a announcement at the Nationals that may get us the RR in our size.
The allowance of the .8x gear, should at least be allowed. I would run it with the 3.27 gear ratio. If someone want to run the 3.08 and not run the 5th gear..thats also fine.
The larger rear brakes. Just allow it; let anyone that wants to run it , run it.
I'll stick with the alum air dam. but allow any material that one would like as long as it maintains the basic shape.
The ignition system; well its just antiquated. After all the trouble I had with it, I am not a fan of it at all. The MSD system is at least a modern system that would be reliable and cheaper in the long run. Allow it..then run what you want to.
Cap girdle is addresses reliability. Allow it.
Fuel injectors - no performance gain by using another brand. Allow it.

There should be more cars running in this series...they are the coolest cars on the track. I can't help to believe that the allowed upgrades are not balanced. Big *** brakes in the front but small ones in the back which makes one run 5/8 master cylinder to get enough brake pressure to the back brakes. With the ignition system we forced to buy chinese ignition components or go buy the expensive good stuff from Ford.

I'm done with this posting on this topic....I thought that there would be more opinions here; maybe my timing is off.

[mhoward1]

On the topic of tires. I personally don’t want to run on better, IE more expensive rubber. I have been in a series where the purple crack was used. Yes, the cars are faster but consumables go up exponentially. These cars like larger slip angles, and with Hoosiers that means short tire life. On R6’s we would probably only get 3 weekends out of them before they are heat cycled out or the cords showing. The Brakes would also suffer. My guess is with the XP12’s or similar only lasting a few weekends as well. Plus, even on the RA-1s we are running very respectable times. We will never be the fastest class, but at the same time we are right in the middle at a fraction of the costs.

As long as everyone is on the same tire then the playing field is level. If we start comparing ourselves to other faster classes, then yes they have better tires. But ask someone running ST1 or ST2 how much they spend a year on tires and brakes. If we want to be competitive with other classes then maybe we adjust our rules in other areas as well. The bigger question is how much more we want it to cost to run in this series.

[FFSpecRacer]

Regarding tires.................

This is not really a discussion item. If NASA/Toyo decides that we will be on the the new RR1 next year or 2015, it will happen. It has nothing to do with the series. Toyo is our spec tire, I do not believe NASA will ever allow us to go with a different manufacturer so there is no worries that we will ever be on Hoosiers.

[johngeorge]

My thoughts:

1. My vote is 3.08 only! This is a spec series, I want to know I won as a driver, and not because I did/did not have the optimal gears for that specific track.
2. Open up to any 24lb injectors, if other brands are more robust, go for it.
3. Allow people to run bottom-end girdle if they want, no performance implications, (just adding weight heh!)

Leave the rest of the rules alone! I feel rule stability is key to growing series.

Not worth the extra expense of modifying trans for .8X 5th gear, I've done 150mph bouncing off rev limiter in 4th (AI mustang draft at VIR) with current spec and 3.08 gears and that's plenty fast for anyone!

[EBarnes]

I agree with Marty and JG's sentiment on rule stability and keeping operating costs low...