Thinking about building the MK4 - have questions

[Crimson ghost]

I am confused on what I should order and need some guidance. I know I want a complete kit but I'm lost on the upgrades and need some guidance so I can figure out how much to save up.

I'm not sure what to do with the exhaust - I like them loud shinny and on the side :) this is a weekend toy that I can enjoy wi the mrs but will drive it hard from time to time so I want power under the hood. But mostly it will be babied and bring us to car shows and out to dinner in my town.

I really could use some guidance in putting together the order from this site and identifying what else I need from other sites. The engine needs to be turnkey, I'm not building one (I only know how to do a top build anyway) iam the type of person that has to lay everything out ensure it all works together and then order it.

I'm thinking of this engine
http://www.proformanceunlimited.com/specs/347_425_cobra_7810.html

And this transmission
http://americanpowertrain.com/c-320564-shop-by-category-transmissions-ford-tko-magnum-and-t5-tremec-magnum-close-ratio-26-spline.html

Any guidance is greatly appreciated ! I need to sell a 68 corvette to pay for this so I'm at my earliest stages and probably not looking to move forward with this until January or so - depends when the corvette sells. Thanks all.

[montyals]

Nice parts. Doesn't seem like you need much help with the decision making. Order the kit, get the parts, start the build. Good luck.

[skullandbones]

Hi ghost,

Since you are in the early stages you should, at least, consider one of our forum vendors as they are experienced on the drive trains that work best on these projects. Forte and others can probably set you up with a match and if you are still waiting, sales on these engine/trans combos come up periodically. It doesn't hurt to shop around. Good luck. WEK.

[68GT500MAN]

Welcome to the forum and I like your drivetrain choices. I 2x the idea of contacting Mike Forte or Gordon Levy before you purchase any parts, they will give you good advice and help avoid non-compatible choices.
Doug

[CraigS]

Not familiar w/ that specific trans but other 6 speeds require an IRS rear suspension. They are longer than a 5 speed and the drive shaft would be too short to work w/ a 3 or 4 link solid axle. Second the idea of talking w/ Forte or Levy.

[Avalanche325]

Loud shiney and on the side - you want the 4 into 4 headers and stainless steel side pipes.

What rear suspension? That is a major up front decision. If you want chrome roll bars and stainless pipes, it is cheaper to do that when you order as you get some credit as an upgrade. If your wife's head is as valuble as yours, you might want a passenger roll bar. Heater?, Wipers? FFR is very good about walking you through. You can also make some changes after the order is in, up to a certain point.

If you are thinking of January, watch for a year end sale. They usually have one, and it is usually very good.

[carlewms]

I went through the process last year before ordering my kit prior to end of the 1/2 price sale on upgrades. Here are some lessons learned from my experience:

1. Really hone in on the upgrades/changes that you want in the car before ordering the complete kit. The supporting vendors have some components that really make a big difference in the overall outcome of the build. Example: You can order the Wilwood upgrade from FFR but it comes with a smaller real brake caliper. Gordon sells an upgraded version with a bigger rear brake caliper;

2. The more modifications you want the longer and more expensive the build will be. I am not talking about upgrades as described above but stuff like modifying the foot boxes to make more room, modifications to make more room in the trunk. These types of require fabrication of new panels;

3. I started with the base kit to allow room for the upgrades I wanted from FFR. I got the IRS and the IRS completion kit, the Wilwood brake upgrade and the leather seats from FFR at 1/2 price during the sale;

4. Get the frame powder coated by FFR;

5. Attend build school before ordering your kit if at all possible;

6. Talk to Gordon and Mike about the build. I ended up getting my engine, transmission and cooling system from Gordon.

The forums are full of great ideas and we are all good at spending your money.

Carl

[DaleG]

Re powder coating the chassis: You might shop around and get quotes from local powder coaters. Not sure if FFR uses anything but gloss black. I ordered my chassis "raw" and had it black "crinkled" locally for the same price FFR charges. Having said that, sometimes FFR has sales that include PC as a free option, which is a great deal. Good luck with your planning.:). X2 on speaking with Gordon and Mike.

[Crimson ghost]

Thank you all very much for the replies. I will continue the research and speak with the two gentlemen you all suggested. I like to notion of installing heat - not so much wipes, as im not installing a top. But could these two additions be done after the fact if I so choose ?

Another question is on storage of the body, while I'm building the car what is the next way to store it out of the way ? I assume it can't be painted until installed. Can I suspend it from the ceiling ? Can it be hung on the wall (I have a large open wall if I could work up some sort of supports).

Aside from standard tools is there anything special I will need ? Really just want to plan ahead expenses best I can. I watched the videos on the forum (Dan) and all. Took note on was that he installed some of the panels with rivets, a tool I don't own - but that's got to be cheap.

[Crimson ghost]

Sorry to bother again guys. How do I locate members n the forum ? I tried searching for Mike Forte and Gordon Levy but it returns threads, many of which simply say their names such as this particular thread.

[edwardb]

Sorry to bother again guys. How do I locate members n the forum ? I tried searching for Mike Forte and Gordon Levy but it returns threads, many of which simply say their names such as this particular thread.

They are forum vendors. Click the "Vendors" link at the top of the page. Forte's Parts Connection and Levy Racing are among those listed. Engine Factory is also listed, another possible source many have used. FWIW, the engine selection in your original post is OK, but the parts used are pretty average IMO. Any of these three would be as good or better. There are other engine vendors many could recommend, but not forum vendors. Personally, I think having someone local you can work with is worth a lot, and most areas have great local builders. Just need to ask around to other enthusiasts in the area. The engine builder I used for my Mk4 build is 5 hours away from me, but still basically local and so far that has been helpful for me. Also agree with the comments the trans you selected is not a common one, and may require only IRS and even then may not be a direct bolt-in. Consider a TKO-600. 5-speed vs. 6-speed, but is a solid choice for these builds. With the power to weight ratio of these cars, a 5-speed is fine.

[bil1024]

Where are you located ? Someone close by may have an FFR you can speak to. Body can be suspended from cieling, getthe build manual in PDF or book form from FFR and there is a basic list of tools and supplies. Ask alot of quwtions, thats what we are here for

[WIS89]

Crimson-

Many here have put together what is commonly referred to as a build plan. Essentially, it is a working document that describes the basic elements that will be included on the build. For example, which modifications you will make, what upgrades, as well as parts sources, etc. I also agree with the folks above who have mentioned getting a copy of the build manual. What I have done is developed a build plan in excel and inputting prices wherever possible, and then gone through the build manual, and marked it up with the modifications I plan to make, as well as where they should be done during the build process. The spreadsheet helps me with my budgeting and the modified manual will help me as I work through to ensure I get the mods in where they are supposed to go.

There are a couple other good sources, and they are a book by Brian Smith called "How to Build Cobra Kit Cars + Buying Used," as well as http://mk4build.com/. I found both these sources to be extremely helpful as I planned out my build. Likewise, as mentioned above as well, speaking to some of the forum vendors who do this for a living, pick their brain over what upgrades and modifications are worth doing, and those that are superfluous. They are wonderful sources not just for parts, but also to get ideas-- or eliminate them for your build plans. Those that have been mentioned are perfect for this, as well as great parts partners for your build.

I have also never been let down by this forum. I have asked some pretty boneheaded questions, and folks here have always been patient, understanding, and provided invaluable feedback as I began my journey a couple of years ago. I haven't begun my build yet, but take delivery of my kit in December (I am totally stoked and cannot wait!!), yet, everyone here has welcomed me and my stupid questions as I started planning out my build. Ask any questions you have, and you will have many eager respondents to assist you move forward.

My last piece of advice is to enjoy the journey! It has been a ridiculously fun time for me, and I haven't even started. Best of luck making your plans, and ask away!

Regards,

Steve

[68GT500MAN]

If you have the room you can store the body outside. I built a buck and stored the roadster body outside in the 100+ degree heat as well as the rain and sub 30 degree cold in the winter with no problems. My HR body and parts are outside now.
Doug

[Bob Cowan]

All good advice above. I'll add a few other tid bits regarding the parts you referenced

- Engine: NEVER use cheap parts. They're too expensive in the long run.
--- "Performance Aluminum cylinder Heads With Intake Runners" What does that mean? Exactly? Some builders will use cheap parts, and not mention the brand name. Avoid like Proform parts like the plague that they are.
--- "Custom Ground Hydraulic Roller High Performance Street Camshaft With A Muscle Car Chop". I'm a little OCD, and would want to know specifics.
--- "A Set Of Roller lifters" Good, stay away from flat tappet cams. But use a quality part like Ford or Comp Cams.
--- Follow that same theme before buying. Ask them specifically what brand for each part before sending in a check. No cheap parts.
--- When they do list specific brands, they are quality parts - Manley, ARP, Melling, Edelbrock, etc.
--- I didn't see static compression ratio mentioned. I would want to know that, so I could calculate dynamic compression.
--- 425 HP from 347 cubes. That's 1.23hp per cub. That should be a mild street engine with good manners - easy to drive and probably last forever. Depending on the cam and compression, should also provide a broad flat torque curve - perfect for a fun car.
--- But, who has heard of Performance Unlimited, in NJ? Look for references and reputation. Unfortunatly, there are some bad companies out there.

Transmission: The Tremec magnum 6 speed is an excellent choice. Strong, reliable, and common.
--- It has 2 OD gears, which is good. Not a huge RPM drop between gears like the 5 speed TKO does.
--- As said above, you'll have to use IRS, since the 6 speed is so long.
--- That's OK, because the IRS is the only way to build a roadster (IMO).

[Kevin Davis]

I'd suggest you plan to drive the car in gelcoat for a summer at least. I did 2 summers, and ended up with a 2x4' whiteboard literally FILLED with to-do's after the shakedown...some things I just didn't like, issues I forgot, etc. Much better to do those things as the body is off pre-paint than to have to pull the body again. It's not a big deal, but risky to the paint to keep pulling it.

If you have room, you can also hang the body from the ceiling. I did that on mine, I just made some "arms" for the body buck, took the base off, and tied them to hooks in the ceiling. It was good to keep the body out of the way and inside.

Good advice about enjoying the journey. I started to feel like I "had to finish" the car, and it wasn't very fun. I'm just now doing my body work, and I got my kit in early 2009...

[Avalanche325]

Hang from ceiling - yes.
Hang from wall - I don't think I would do that. You don't want to end up with a warped body after it hangs there for a year.

[rlampman]

Great advice from everyone so far. I would add a few.

One more for asking from the venders here. I got my TKO600 from Mike Forte and he put together the package and brought up things I didn't think of. I would have missed them from another vender that doesn't know FFR.

Don't forget about the small stuff. All the parts that are needed like hardware, brackets, pulleys, alternator, starter... They add up fast. I started with a built engine but adding up all the accessories I spent more on the engine than I thought.

Hang the body from the ceiling, yes. Mine is on the body buck and raised with some pulleys then hooked on small chain. I can take it down myself if I need to.

Keep reading here and doing the research. You will learn a lot and save in the long run in time and/or money. Sometimes it cost money cause there are so many great ideas

Rod

[CDXXVII]

Garage storage. I have a small two car garage that I still share with my wife. I get to build a roadster if she can still park in the garage. The chassis is on a rolling dolly and the bottom of my body clears my head by approx. 6" to the lowest point. works out great.

20928

[OCCPete]

Hang the body from the ceiling? Who'd be crazy enough to do that ;)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/pballent/Cobra%20Build/PICT0131.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/pballent/media/Cobra%20Build/PICT0131.jpg.html)

[edwardb]

I like the notion of installing heat - not so much wipes, as I'm not installing a top. But could these two additions be done after the fact if I so choose?

Another question is on storage of the body, while I'm building the car what is the next way to store it out of the way? I assume it can't be painted until installed. Can I suspend it from the ceiling? Can it be hung on the wall? (I have a large open wall if I could work up some sort of supports).

X2 on buying and downloading the manual. Best $10 you'll spend to get a good feel for the build process, steps, tools, etc.

Don't see these responses yet:

Add head and wipers after the fact? Technically yes. Practically, very challenging. Highly recommend installing heat during the build if you want it. Wipers can be installed easier after the fact, but still way easier to do during the initial build. Even without a top, they do help (some) in the rain but more importantly they may be required by your local safety rules in order to title and license. Something you need to find out about.

Normally the body is painted off the car, but it needs to be fitted and prepped while on the car before paint. So the normal build process is the body is on/off several times at least. Not a big deal. Just the last time with the paint done, have lots of help and be super careful.

Several have posted about ways to store the body by hanging. Another option is an elevated body buck. This is how I've done my two builds using a single bay in our double garage. I don't have enough height, plus the door is in the way, to hang from the ceiling. Some work I can do with the body in the garage. Other times I move it out onto the driveway or temporarily into the second bay.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Body%20Buck/IMG_1816.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Body%20Buck/IMG_1816.jpg.html)

[DaleG]

Online order the Factory Five MK IV Roadster build manual and read it now, before you order. It will answer many of your questions, and maybe raise some too. Happy building days are ahead for you!

Cheers, Dale