818 Forum formatting-need input

[ehansen007]

Hey dudes!

About a year ago we implemented a new format over in the 33 Hot Rod section. This was in response to the fact that we had a ton of good information that was not necessarily organized in categories. While the search function does work, not having the keywords correct can often make it difficult. From using other forums over the years, I noticed that with categories or sub-forums you might also open it and find more relevant info in other areas related to that topic.

Since we've implemented this new sub-forum set up over there it seems to be working pretty well so I wanted to see it it make sense to do this on the 818 forums as we begin to pick up new builds and people are going to have a lot of questions. I've tried using the WIKI and liked the idea, however with this software, it involves having to submit your posts first and then have them published and it doesn't really post up as a traditional, linear WIKI. Besides, it kind of creates two disparate areas to research. So, if you think it would be beneficial, please post your input here.

NOTE: This isn't meant to be a debate for which is better so please do not respond with quotes and the like and get into major discussions. Simply post your input from looking at the other format with some basic comments and whether it would be beneficial so we can keep it on topic.

Thanks in advance!

Erik

[508wrx]

I would like to see it set up like the Hot Rod section. Keeps things better organized. Also prevents possible very informative posts being drowned out by things like build threads (This is not me bashing build threads. I love them and all the awesomeness they contain). Just my .02

[Mechie3]

I like it better. Most forums I'm on are organized like that with the exception of the really small ones.

Only thing I don't get is after you scroll past the sub forums on top (engine, suspension, etc) there's a list of threads at the bottom. Are these just the most recently updated ones?

One more suggestion would be potentially an FFR Official News section. Maybe for older kits it doesn't make sense, but with news for the 818 still rather fresh and coming, it might make sense to group it all together.

[Xusia]

Many of us have been asking for such organization for a while now. I think it is needed and would be helpful. I say the sooner the better!

[David Hodgkins]

../One more suggestion would be potentially an FFR Official News section. Maybe for older kits it doesn't make sense, but with news for the 818 still rather fresh and coming, it might make sense to group it all together.

Have you seen this?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/content.php?253-818

When posts are put into the WIKI or FFR puts out an article they appear on the left, opposite of the latest 818 posts.

:)

[ehansen007]

This is also good input. Let me ask this. Do you guys go to the Home page of FFR and check for new posts, hit the 818 main page, or go straight to the forums page?

[wleehendrick]

I have the 818 forum bookmarked and go directly there. I'll occasionally go to the Home page to see what else is going on, but usually stick the the 818 section.

P.S. I would like to see sub-forums as well.

[ehansen007]

I like it better. Most forums I'm on are organized like that with the exception of the really small ones.

Only thing I don't get is after you scroll past the sub forums on top (engine, suspension, etc) there's a list of threads at the bottom. Are these just the most recently updated ones?



This forum has some limitations to it and I've tried to work around them to get this forum looking like 99% of the other ones out there so people are familiar with it right away. The posts at the bottom are just posts for the main 33 forum and then you have all the subforums up top. Again, it's the only way we could do it. I'd rather have all categories and no main posting but this isn't bad to see all the newest posts as well and it represented the best of both worlds for newer guys and the older users set in their ways.;) I do some grooming from time to time to put the really good posts into the appropriate categories for future use. I just haven't done it in a while.

[Mechie3]

Have you seen this?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/content.php?253-818

When posts are put into the WIKI or FFR puts out an article they appear on the left, opposite of the latest 818 posts.

:)

No, because of the reason below.


This is also good input. Let me ask this. Do you guys go to the Home page of FFR and check for new posts, hit the 818 main page, or go straight to the forums page?

This is why I've never seen it. I jump straight to http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/forumdisplay.php?28-The-New-Factory-Five-818


This forum has some limitations to it and I've tried to work around them to get this forum looking like 99% of the other ones out there so people are familiar with it right away. The posts at the bottom are just posts for the main 33 forum and then you have all the subforums up top. Again, it's the only way we could do it. I'd rather have all categories and no main posting but this isn't bad to see all the newest posts as well and it represented the best of both worlds for newer guys and the older users set in their ways.;) I do some grooming from time to time to put the really good posts into the appropriate categories for future use. I just haven't done it in a while.

Np. I just couldn't figure out what they were.

[WIS89]

Erik-

I like the sub-categories. However, I am probably a bit unusual in that I go directly to the most recent posts for all of the forums, not just the Roadster, which is the car I will be building. I enjoy looking at what all builders might be doing-- especially the excitement and awesomeness of the 818. However, when I am looking for something specific, I really prefer the sub categories so that I can find the information I am seeking more quickly. I hope I have helped...

Regards,

Steve

[Xusia]

I have the 818 forum bookmarked and go directly there: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/forumdisplay.php?28-The-New-Factory-Five-818

[Evan78]

I vote for subforums.

I don't know if this would be an improvement or not, but another way of doing it would be to create a "General" subforum and not allow any threads in the top level 818 forum. In other words, everything would reside in a subforum, either one of the categories such as engine, electrical, suspension, etc or "general".

[Evan78]

While we're on the topic, has any consideration been given to creating subforums in parts for sale section?

[Xusia]

I vote for subforums.

I don't know if this would be an improvement or not, but another way of doing it would be to create a "General" subforum and not allow any threads in the top level 818 forum. In other words, everything would reside in a subforum, either one of the categories such as engine, electrical, suspension, etc or "general".

+1 :)

[AZPete]

I go to the Home page and then look at all the forums, especially 818, but I have too much time . . . . . . until my 818 arrives next week.
I'd like subforums too.

[metros]

I like more organization. Just don't make it super specific. I think build threads should get a section, 818 for sale should be a section, suspension, and engine. If it's too split up then it's a pain to see what's new and going on.

I don't like having to wait to see my post 'published' after I hit submit.

[Evan78]

This is also good input. Let me ask this. Do you guys go to the Home page of FFR and check for new posts, hit the 818 main page, or go straight to the forums page?I use the thread and forum subscription feature and use the links in the emails. I especially like the ability to subscribe to a forum and get a daily update that lists new threads. I ignore the 2nd section that lists other threads with new activity since I get separate, individual updates of their activity. In other words, I check the homepage or browse the forums very seldom.

[David Hodgkins]

Sub-forums created.

[Samiam1017]

Looks good. With the current build threads be moved? Also the stickys to there proper location.

[Turboguy]

I've been here 45 seconds, and the new format has already given me a headache.

[ehansen007]

I'll start moving stuff in the morning. And I'll send turboguy some aspirin.

[VD2021]

Many of us have been asking for such organization for a while now. I think it is needed and would be helpful. I say the sooner the better!

And for all of the other vehicle's sub-forums. If there's a reason it can't or should not be used with all of them, please let me know.

The 33HR sub-forum's organization makes it a true pleasure to brouse.

[Turboguy]

The great thing about a single forum area, is that it gives you one place to come and peruse what's going on. I can see the logic in separate "for sale" areas for all the FFR sub-models since for the most part they use different parts and donor items.


But I would bet a lot of people simply don't have time to come and wade through a dozen different sub-forums. The old roadster forum on FFCobra.com worked just fine. Really not sure what this will accomplish here other than fracturing the readership.

[ehansen007]

Started moving already. I'm putting in redirects so if you've bookmarked them they won't break and it will give you time to update them. This is going to take some time guys but from what I've seen on the HR forums, it will be worth it. The new builders really like it how much easier it is to find things while building.

[Silvertop]

The great thing about a single forum area, is that it gives you one place to come and peruse what's going on. I can see the logic in separate "for sale" areas for all the FFR sub-models since for the most part they use different parts and donor items.


But I would bet a lot of people simply don't have time to come and wade through a dozen different sub-forums. The old roadster forum on FFCobra.com worked just fine. Really not sure what this will accomplish here other than fracturing the readership.

That occurred to me too. But it also occurs to me that the separation of the single 818 forum into subforums won't actually increase the numbers of new thread postings. They'll just be separated into categories. Shouldn't really take any (or much) longer to go through and given day's new posts. My question -- what about posts that don't fit well into the categories? Or maybe fit into multiple categories?

[David Hodgkins]

.../My question -- what about posts that don't fit well into the categories? Or maybe fit into multiple categories?

We're keeping the general 818 forum for these types of posts...

:)

[Silvertop]

We're keeping the general 818 forum for these types of posts...
:)

I was kind of figuring that -- or at least hoping for it.

David, will you be making the decision about which threads will be moved into the new subforum categories, or will each thread's OP need to be involved in that? Will moved threads eventually be deleted from the general category, or will there be redundancy?

It occurs to me that ultimately eliminating redundancy will make the general category easier to find stuff in as well.........:)

[David Hodgkins]

Erik is heading up the task of moving threads. Each thread moved will still appear in the general forum as a redirect for one month to allow folks to "re-bookmark" their favorite threads.

:)

[PhyrraM]

To keep the main body from not being seen at the bottom of the screen (and thinking there are new posts because), maybe have a single link to the subforum page. Then that page can have all the subforum.

[David Hodgkins]

To keep the main body from not being seen at the bottom of the screen (and thinking there are new posts because), maybe have a single link to the subforum page. Then that page can have all the subforum.

Do you mean have the general forum as another sub-forum and the current 818 forum as a category, ie no threads? I was thinking about that last night. Might be a good idea...

:)

[Mechie3]

Is there a new posts button for just the 818 sub forum? Thats what i use on the smaller forums I'm on to check things out. I dont use it on Nasioc because things move too fast.

[Silvertop]

Erik is heading up the task of moving threads. Each thread moved will still appear in the general forum as a redirect for one month to allow folks to "re-bookmark" their favorite threads.

:)

Great idea! Though it seems like a herculean task. Erik has a lot on his plate, I think.

[Silvertop]

Do you mean have the general forum as another sub-forum and the current 818 forum as a category, ie no threads? I was thinking about that last night. Might be a good idea...

:)

That makes sense to me.....................

[David Hodgkins]

What do you guys think of a Donor sub forum?

[Silvertop]

What do you guys think of a Donor sub forum?
Absolutely! It could include general donor discussion, as well postings of specific donors available. Or would we have potential problems with forum vendor rules?

[flynntuna]

Would this be for anything donor related? What about a FAQ section?

[ehansen007]

Yup! Working away on it right now as you guys can see. I think a general forum is awesome and the donor forum is a must.

NOTE! I'm only really redirecting very new relevant posts and build threads as most are following closely. All the other stuff I'm just moving over without redirects. I'm finding some really neat stuff I'd hadn't even seen before! Thanks for all the great feedback guys.

I think a FAQ might be good once we get a lot more defined answers and maybe even a build manual so we have concise answers.

[David Hodgkins]

OK, Donor and General Discussions forums added.

flynntuna, there is a FAQ section in the 818 WIKI:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/content.php?253-818

[David Hodgkins]

PS in the link above, I've added all the sub-forums so that all recent posts from all 818 related forums will show up there.

:)

[Evan78]

I'm sure you guys (Erik and David) know better than me, but it appears the redirects aren't necessary for maintaining anyone's bookmarks. The thread URL's appear to be the same as before, which is what I would expect of vBulletin since the subforum is not part of the URL in the current setup. The redirect appears to only benefit someone that browses the general forum looking for a particular thread title. If they have a bookmark, they should still arrive at the same thread as before the reorganization.

For example, here are URL's for Erik's "And it begins..."The Flash" Build Thread":


Before subforums:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10507-And-it-begins-quot-The-Flash-quot-Build-Thread

After moving to Build Threads subforum:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10507-And-it-begins-quot-The-Flash-quot-Build-Thread

[David Hodgkins]

You're right Evan. I hadn't thought of that, or even tested it for that matter. It may be a question then of leaving the redirects there so folks who HAVEN'T bookmarked them can still find them.

Nice catch.

:)

[Silvertop]

I'm sure you guys (Erik and David) know better than me, but it appears the redirects aren't necessary for maintaining anyone's bookmarks. The thread URL's appear to be the same as before, which is what I would expect of vBulletin since the subforum is not part of the URL in the current setup. The redirect appears to only benefit someone that browses the general forum looking for a particular thread title. If they have a bookmark, they should still arrive at the same thread as before the reorganization.

For example, here are URL's for Erik's "And it begins..."The Flash" Build Thread":


Before subforums:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10507-And-it-begins-quot-The-Flash-quot-Build-Thread

After moving to Build Threads subforum:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10507-And-it-begins-quot-The-Flash-quot-Build-Thread

I think the temporary redirect will be still be useful for those who haven't had the foresight to bookmark specific threads that they like. If they are looking for particular threads, they'll still be able to find them easily during the transition period -- and acclimate themselves to the new locations. The "proper" new location may not always be that intuitive, particularly in cases where the thread may fit more than one subforum topic, or it may only "sort-of" fit a subforum category. I think the redirect remains a good idea. Just my .02.

[Silvertop]

Another couple of questions:

Should people who are starting new threads begin posting them to the appropriate new subforum headings effective immediately?
And when all is said and done, will anyone be reviewing the subforum headings on a regular basis to verify that posters are locating their threads in the best location?

[Evan78]

Redirects seem to pose no harm, I just thought I'd mention it in case it takes a lot of time for the admins to create and later remove them.

[David Hodgkins]

Another couple of questions:

Should people who are starting new threads begin posting them to the appropriate new subforum headings effective immediately?

Sure.



And when all is said and done, will anyone be reviewing the subforum headings on a regular basis to verify that posters are locating their threads in the best location?

Probably. Erik and I hang out here all the time. Plus, you can always report the post, requesting to have it moved.

Also: I think it may be time for a new 818 moderator or two from the brotherhood.

:)

[Silvertop]

Probably. Erik and I hang out here all the time. Plus, you can always report the post, requesting to have it moved.

Also: I think it may be time for a new 818 moderator or two from the brotherhood.

:)

I'm betting you would get more volunteers out of this public-spirited bunch than you could possibly use. Are you looking for volunteers? I'd certainly be happy to help, if my skillset suits your needs.

[ehansen007]

I went ahead and tested the redirects by first adding a bookmark to the topic, then moving the topic into the subforum. It looked like the bookmark still worked. They will automatically expire in one month. Yes, all should start posting in the appropriate areas immediately. I will continue to groom. And yes, I was also thinking it's time to add some other level headed moderators out there who browse regularly with focused, constructive input...like yourself Silvertop. I'll talk to Dave about it.

Erik

[ehansen007]

Ok guys. We've moved most all of the content into their appropriate sub forums. There are still some posts I need to search for and put into their appropriate sub forums but the majority of the look and feel is done. Take some time to look around and see what you think. It is a big change and while you don't see all the newest/recent posts right away, the 818 home page has that feature. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/content.php?253-818

[SkiRideDrive]

Is it possible to access a page which only shows the posts since your last visit solely in the 818 forum, including any of the subforums within the 818 forum?

[David Hodgkins]

I know you can do that with a RSS reader app; I'll look to see if there is an area here I haven't discovered...

:)

[VD2021]

Admin,

Great job!

Please ...Can you do this for the GTM sub-forum? You Guys made quick work of it here and the GTM sub-forum is smaller by post number.

[GUNS]

I like the new layout, much more organized.

[K3LAG]

I like the new layout, much more organized.

Me too

[Wayne Presley]

Hate it so far...

[Xusia]

I don't like having to mark each forum as read when I'm done, but I do think it's far better for browsing.

[Slatt]

It looks like trouble for those of us who want to read every thread. We could lose something between reading / updating all the time? Not sure. Frankly, I'm about done with my 'all threads' obsession, this new layout might help.

[Mechie3]

Is it possible to access a page which only shows the posts since your last visit solely in the 818 forum, including any of the subforums within the 818 forum?

I go straight to the 818 forum and look at the blue speech bubbles on the left. If they're dark blue, there's a new unread thread. I then click that subforum and find the bold/dark blue thread title. It's an extra click from my previous method, but I think in the long run it's better as more and more people start building or reseraching what others did in the past to solve issues.


Hate it so far...
Haters gonna hate! lol It does take some getting used to.


It looks like trouble for those of us who want to read every thread. We could lose something between reading / updating all the time? Not sure. Frankly, I'm about done with my 'all threads' obsession, this new layout might help.

I'm one of those every thread guys. I now do what I posted above. Just not sure what happens to the dark blue speech icon if I enter a subforum and don't click every updated thread.

[Wayne Presley]

The old format, click my 818 forum bookmark, look at all threads, bold have new posts decide which to read now/need posting

New format, click 818 forum bookmark, right click and open in new tab for every sub forum, then you can see what new posts and decide which to read now/need posting


I could walk by my computer before and in literally 2 seconds and one click scan the entire 818 section. So as of day 2 it still sucks.

[Mechie3]

The old format, click my 818 forum bookmark, look at all threads, bold have new posts decide which to read now/need posting

New format, click 818 forum bookmark, right click and open in new tab for every sub forum, then you can see what new posts and decide which to read now/need posting


I could walk by my computer before and in literally 2 seconds and one click scan the entire 818 section. So as of day 2 it still sucks.

I do agree the old way was faster to do the quick update and I much preferred that aspect.

6 months from now, or a year from now, when others are having trouble assembling stuff or need help with a certain part I think the categorization will help. That's what I like about it.

I think we could have the best of both worlds with a "new posts" button that works only within the 818 forum. It'll give us back the 2 second quick check.

[Turboguy]

The old format, click my 818 forum bookmark, look at all threads, bold have new posts decide which to read now/need posting

New format, click 818 forum bookmark, right click and open in new tab for every sub forum, then you can see what new posts and decide which to read now/need posting


I could walk by my computer before and in literally 2 seconds and one click scan the entire 818 section. So as of day 2 it still sucks.


x2 :(

[fateo66]

Is there a new posts button for just the 818 sub forum? Thats what i use on the smaller forums I'm on to check things out. I dont use it on Nasioc because things move too fast.

I would also really like a button specific to the 818 forums!

[David Hodgkins]

All new posts for the 818 forum regardless of sub-category can be seen here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/content.php?253-818

All new posted-to threads regardless of forum can be seen here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/search.php?searchid=730217
and here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/content.php

All new posts for all forums can be seen here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/activity.php

:)

[waruaki]

I have ordered a 818S and reserved a donor from Andrew. This will be my second kit car and first from Factory 5. My first I used a Ford FI 5.0 no cats OBD1 and it worked great. I'm a little daunted with the Subaru as even minor modifications (Catless Uppipe, removing the air pump and charcoal canister) require the ECU to be flashed and a new map to be installed for maximum performance. Would it be possible to add a new category like (ECU Tuning) for those of us that have never had experience with this aspect of a build? I'm new to the Forum and enjoy looking at the progress of the builds. I had a Lotus Europa in the 90s but was always disappointed with the power when I tracked it. I'm sure the 818 will put a smile on my face when finished.

If this is the wrong place to post this let me know.

Brett

[ehansen007]

So the "general" sub-forum was one I hadn't originally done on the 33 forums because I was afraid it would look empty. if you look at the 33 forum right now, you see most of the new stuff as it comes in unless someone posts directly in that sub forum. What I have noticed is that there is still plenty of responses going on even when someone posts directly to a subforum so people have learned to use the recent posts section to browse what's new. So, is it better to put the general posts back on the main page and do it exactly like the 33 forums where I will go in an groom them once in a while (I haven't done it lately) and move them to their appropriate category? I'm open to suggestions of course. In our defense we ask for feedback ahead of time and only got one negative response compared to a lot of positive ones. Still, we want to make it the best we can. This is about making it better for all users and builders. I know some had gotten very used to the unorganized setup on FFR and it's those who are the most vocal which is understandable.

e

[Wayne Presley]

All new posts for the 818 forum regardless of sub-category can be seen here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/content.php?253-818


:)

Ok so I click on that link and get a bunch of stuff I don't need to see and a little sidebar with recent posts but not necessarily all the threads because there may be multiple posts on single topics that have pushed them off the front page.

It's just another variant of multiple clicks to figure out which threads need reading...

The multiple categories is fine for an archive. Does the search not work?

[Evan78]

...right click and open in new tab for every sub forum...If you have a middle button on your mouse (many scroll wheels double as a button you can press down), Chrome, Firefox, and IE will all open a link in a new tab if you middle click on it.

[David Hodgkins]

Wayne, I'll work on a widget for you the shows all recent threads (instead of posts) for all of the sub forums.

:)

[David Hodgkins]

OK Wayne, check out the link again. I have reconfigured the widget so that it include the recent threads - not recent posts - and included all sub forums:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/content.php?253-818

I hope you like it.

:)