Who Will Be First To Build Using 818Donors.com?

[EricScottZehnder]

It seems like all the early adopters/early sign-ups are from the hardcore lot who know how to disassemble an entire car, sell off the rest of it and generally do this project in the true spirit of Factory Five. That being said, I'd love to hear from anyone doing it the way I'll be doing it which is by getting the donor parts in a big crate (or two) from 818Donors.com. The hardcore lot seem to know all the tiniest bits and pieces to get, modifications necessary to build the 818, etc. I doubt I'll ever have this knowledge so I'd love to follow a build with someone doing what I'd do and having the same knowledge (or lack thereof) as I have.

Anybody?

[Ethan818]

I'll be one of the first to start (Stewart is supposed to pick up my kit this Saturday), but I will be taking my time so I'm sure I won't be the first to finish. :) I used 818donors (AJW) for my donor parts as well as aftermarket parts and this will be my first car build of any kind (other than doing my own repair work). I'll start/update my build thread sometime in the next month when the kit arrives and I start working on the parts.

[Goldwing]

I get my kit in December. I got my crates last week! This will be my first build as well. It seems we are coming from a similar place.

[Xusia]

I'm not using 818 Donors, but I am most definitely NOT in the category of hardcore. I knew nothing about Subaru's beforehand, and I have little automotive skill (I'm an IT guy by trade). I'm not sure what information or conversations you are looking for, but I am happy to talk to you and help if I can.

[AZPete]

I have the 818Donor parts all sorted and cleaned up now and Stewart Transport will pick up my 818 this week for delivery estimated Aug. 14th. (Yippee!!!)
I built an FFR roadster, drove it 9,000 miles and then sold it @ Barrett-Jackson where I got my cash back. All lots of fun.
As I cleaned/polished/painted parts I have been very thankful that AJW packed everything carefully and threaded nuts and bolts back on after they removed something which has saved me mucho time and frustration. I'll post major steps but not every day like - thankfully - the first few builders are doing. I'm just an aging shadetree mechanic with limited space, tools, experience and brain cells.
Eric, if you have any questions, please ask or PM me.
Pete

[EricScottZehnder]

I knew nothing about Subaru's beforehand, and I have little automotive skill (I'm an IT guy by trade).

I just bought a used Subaru Outback for my wife since we go camping on a regular basis. I'm enjoying it quite a bit and look forward to be pulled into the AWD world this winter. I'm also an IT guy by trade so I'll definitely be following your thread at some point.

[twizzler]

I def don't consider myself in the hardcore category but do regular work on several different cars and have owned worked on various Subaru's the last ten years. Though this will be my first car build.

I did setup a quick Facebook page to post random pics https://www.facebook.com/Ts818Build

And BTW, my 818S will be delivered 8/19 just two more weeks!

[K3LAG]

I plan to use 818Donors. I talked to Andrew a couple of weeks ago and plan to call him next week to get the ball rolling officially. I am planning to use a 2.0l donor.

Larry

[mekohler]

For those using 818Donors, what are you doing for seat belts?

[Silvertop]

I have two crates of AJW donor parts sitting in my garage. I'm doing an NA version, based on an 04 Outback Sport, though it will be tweaked with cams, tuned EL exhaust, ported/polished intake manifold, light flywheel and crank pulley, and a tuned ECU. Although years ago (most of four decades ago, actually) I was involved in the construction of a race car or two (I was a sports car ice racer), this is my first kit car project.

My 818S is scheduled for production on September 28, and will be delivered to my home by Stewart Transport the following week. I'll be taking my time, although I do hope to complete the car over the course of the winter and early spring. I'll probably start a build thread in early October, after my kit arrives. While it won't be the first AJW based build, it might possibly be the first NA.

My goal is to have the car done in time to drive it to the June 2014 Open House at the FFR homeworld. No guarantees, but that's the goal. No matter how long it takes, I plan to enjoy the build.

Haven't really thought much about seat belts yet. I could use the stock belts, I suppose, but I may want to engage in the occasional track day event, in which case I'm going to need something more than a passenger car three point belt. We shall see.......

[mekohler]

The reason I ask is there were no stock belts in my crates. Just trying to work out a few things so when my kit arrives in October I will be ready to hit the ground running. I know others will finish before I do, but that is okay as I can learn from their builds to speed mine up.

[Silvertop]

The reason I ask is there were no stock belts in my crates. Just trying to work out a few things so when my kit arrives in October I will be ready to hit the ground running. I know others will finish before I do, but that is okay as I can learn from their builds to speed mine up.

I haven't dug deep enough into my crates to see if I have seat belts there or not. If you don't have them in yours, I probably don't either. I'll probably want at least a four-point system anyways.


I'm like you. I'm reading the early build threads with real zest. Everything I can learn will help me with mine.

[K3LAG]

I haven't dug deep enough into my crates to see if I have seat belts there or not. If you don't have them in yours, I probably don't either.

Their web page says they don't include the belts. I presume for liability reasons, but that is just a guess.

Larry

[Silvertop]

Their web page says they don't include the belts. I presume for liability reasons, but that is just a guess.

Larry

Sounds like a pretty good guess.:rolleyes:

[RM1SepEx]

it is against the law in many places for a business to resell a used seat belt. You can find them on EBay, I replaced a chewed up one on my wife's Miata, couldn't buy one at the local boneyard

AJW is in Mass, no shortage of laws there

[Goldwing]

I haven't fully unwrapped everything to be sure, but I've been through both of my crates enough to be pretty sure the seatbelts aren't there. More confirmation, and I guess it makes sense given the last few posts. Makes the 4 point upgrade much easier to justify. I'm a newbie on 4-point belts, how do the upper straps bolt in? Is this something only a custom seat would have provisions for? The stock seats in my crate seem to be in pretty nice condition, I plan to use them.

[Silvertop]

I haven't fully unwrapped everything to be sure, but I've been through both of my crates enough to be pretty sure the seatbelts aren't there. More confirmation, and I guess it makes sense given the last few posts. Makes the 4 point upgrade much easier to justify. I'm a newbie on 4-point belts, how do the upper straps bolt in? Is this something only a custom seat would have provisions for? The stock seats in my crate seem to be in pretty nice condition, I plan to use them.

If memory serves, the upper straps simply bolt to the most convenient location that is strong enough behind the driver's shoulders. There will probably be no auto retracts. While custom seats often have slots for the belts to go through, they are not necessary. You can use your stock seats. I'm going to use mine, unless they put my head too high above the roll bar for passing tech inspection at track day events. Incidentally, if you are planning on doing any track day stuff, you may want to consider going to a 5- or even 6-point system, which will keep you from submarining underneath your belts. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I need to research what is out there..........

Edit: Since I posted this earlier this morning, I've been researching seat belts and harnesses. I have to note that there is a lot of opinion out there against the use of 4-, 5-, or 6-point harnesses in conjunction with stock seats. -- That people should stick with OEM style three point harnesses unless they are using racing seats. I'm not exactly sure why -- at least not yet. To complicate things, there are also folks out there selling aftermarket 4-point systems that are DESIGNED for street use. I need to do more research. I'm glad this question has been raised. I want to make sure I select the best belt system for my needs, and certainly to make sure I don't do anything that compromises safety. I'm sure everyone else wants that, too.

Edit #2:

Well, it looks like it's complicated. There are a whole bunch of factors that will go into selecting the right seat belt system. Here are some of the issues:

Will the vehicle be used purely for street use, for street use plus occasional track days, for lots of track days and occasional street use, or for outright racing use? The answer to that question will govern seat belt selection. Here are some of the reasons why:

Most DOT-rated belts/harnesses are not certified for racing.

Most Racing Harnesses are not DOT certified. In other words, not street legal.

Most Track Day events (depending on the track and the sanctioning body) allow OEM 3 pt belts, though 4-, 5-, or 6-pt will be preferred. Some tracks/sanctioning bodies may have different (more restrictive) rules for non-OEM belt systems. And there really is no OEM system for a Factory Five 818, so one will need to check the rules of the nearby Track Day opportunities available.

If you are going outright wheel-to-wheel racing, the answers are actually fairly simple. Competition harnesses will be required. But if you are planning on driving your racer on the street, you will want to make sure that your harness system is also DOT street legal. Again, most are not, but there are some that are.

There is always the option of installing two separate seat belt systems -- though I think that would be a PITA.

The good news is that there is a lot of neat stuff out there.

The bad news is that we have taken this thread completely off-topic. It seems to me that this discussion has been around before, and there may be a thread already devoted to it. I'll take a look around, and bump it up if I can find it. Otherwise, we should probably create a new thread. Proper seat belt selection is important, and what's best for one build will not be necessarily be so for another.

[mekohler]

Agreed, this is the issue I am working through as well. Please continue to share.

[Mechie3]

Edit: Since I posted this earlier this morning, I've been researching seat belts and harnesses. I have to note that there is a lot of opinion out there against the use of 4-, 5-, or 6-point harnesses in conjunction with stock seats. -- That people should stick with OEM style three point harnesses unless they are using racing seats. I'm not exactly sure why -- at least not yet. To complicate things, there are also folks out there selling aftermarket 4-point systems that are DESIGNED for street use. I need to do more research. I'm glad this question has been raised. I want to make sure I select the best belt system for my needs, and certainly to make sure I don't do anything that compromises safety. I'm sure everyone else wants that, too.

4 pts: You can submarine with these. The only one that is designed not to is the Scrotch ASM (anti submarine) 4 pt. They're DOT approved (only ones) and have lots of testing done along with videos to show how the ASM system works.

5/6 w/stock seat. 5/6 straps should technically route down through the seat, not necessarily in front of it. Stock seats don't have an opening for the 5/6 strap so it may not do it's required function.

The big issue with harnesses is that most people don't tighten them enough. Anyone that got in my WRX I had to tighten the belts for them. Most complained. There is a misconception that more straps = better. 3 pts are designed to be loose until they lock up. 4/5/6 pts don't lock up. They're only ever as tight as they start. People would loosely put the 4pt on and I'd reach over and crank it down. A loose 4/5/6pt is worthless.

Side note: When I totaled my WRX I was wearing Scroth ASM 4 pts. I tightened them everyday/time I got in the car. Yeah, I couldn't reach teh far side of the radio or the glove box from my seat, but I was safe. The only trouble I had after my accident was light paint between my shoulders as the shoulder straps hold your shoulders/collarbone back and allow your spine to move forward slightly. They held me in place enough that when the airbag went off only the very tip of my nose touched it. This brings up the necessity of (and impracticality of street use of) a Hans device to prevent your body from not moving while your head snaps forward and down.

[Goldwing]

Good research silvertop, and good call, staying on point to the thread. I'm not involved with any track activities now, but thought the 818 would be the perfect vehicle to start. I guess next summer at the earliest, which means keeping those rules in mind. I'll look to see what provisions FFR has incorporated before deciding, but see what the forum search comes up with in the meantime. Thanks for the info!

[Silvertop]

Good research silvertop, and good call, staying on point to the thread. I'm not involved with any track activities now, but thought the 818 would be the perfect vehicle to start. I guess next summer at the earliest, which means keeping those rules in mind. I'll look to see what provisions FFR has incorporated before deciding, but see what the forum search comes up with in the meantime. Thanks for the info!

Thanks for that. I'm just like you. I haven't been involved in competition in almost 4 decades, but I have an inkling that I'd really enjoy some track day stuff when I complete my new toy. Second childhood silliness, no doubt :rolleyes:.

I think the information provided by Mechie 3 above is of terrific value. A four-point belt with anti-submarine features (ASM) is probably the perfect compromise solution to the street machine-with-track day usage issue. I've just been out to Schroth's website. In addition to their Rallye4 ASM, it appears that the Rallye3 and the RallyCross also have ASM capabilities, and so will also serve. Which will work best may largely be based on mounting points available in the 818. Presumably, there will be easy access to frame locations behind the driver. Thanks, Mechie 3! You have probably brought my personal search for the right seat belt for me to an unexpected swift conclusion! :)

[Mechie3]

The Rallye 3 and 4 do require moutning parts a bit beyond the seat for the ASM feature to not be interfered with. It may not fit the 818.

The seatbelt stuff should be moved to its own thread (we might already have one), just didn't want to miss the chance to give some good belt info when/where it's asked.

[Silvertop]

The Rallye 3 and 4 do require moutning parts a bit beyond the seat for the ASM feature to not be interfered with. It may not fit the 818.

The seatbelt stuff should be moved to its own thread (we might already have one), just didn't want to miss the chance to give some good belt info when/where it's asked.

Yes, I've been looking at the mounting instructions for the Rallye3 and Rallye4 -- and my first concern was whether there was something far enough away to attach to. Also, the instructions stipulate that you should attach to the original factory points (which in this case, there probably aren't any). Mechie 3, you already have your kit -- has FFR designated or recommended specific attachment points for seat belts for an 818S? Perhaps the RallyeCross is the answer -- though I'd really rather not use the a wrap around the roll bar........... Perhaps a frame member a bit further back -- though that would put it into the engine compartment, and probably not OK. Might there be a good place other than the roll bar to use a wrap for the shoulder harness?

Apologies to all about the continued hijack of this thread. I'm going to go hunting for an older thread about seat belts as soon as I finish this post. If there isn't one, I'll create one. But can we move all this new input over without the help of a moderator?

[Mechie3]

They only have provisions for stock belts I'll have to cut away the upper firewall to allow a harness to wrap around the frame rail that runs horizontally at shoulder height underneath the round roll hoop.

[AJW Performance]

Sorry guys just saw this post. Belts from us are not included and yes its because its the law :(