Weekly Winners and Submissions for FFR-GRM Design Contest Open to Comments

[Dave Smith]

I figured I would start this post as a way to keep guys updated on the weekly design winner and other interesting submissions. We will not publish all submissions at this time. Here are a few:

Week 1
http://www.factoryfive.com/images/ffforum/week1_1.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/images/ffforum/week1_2.jpg

Week 2
http://www.factoryfive.com/images/ffforum/week2_1.jpg

[Doc_FFR]

I like week 2 the best right now

[riptide motorsport]

my 2!

[Olimk2]

As well, more down to earth, not over the top, well balanced, good taste, good design!! Xabier has put level quite high i think, great contender here! And he's a neibourgh for me...almost!

[sub322]

I like week 2 for the overall design. And the built in roll bars behind the seat look nice.
How would the doors open? Regular or Lambo style? Will there be any storage space
under the front lid?

[Gearsmith]

Hmmm... for me it's a bit of a tough call right now. Yes, wk2 is more practical, but Steven Wang's wk1 concept looks like it's going 180mph when it's parked. A part of me says if I'm going to invest the time and money into building a kit car, I want it to not only perform, but be a real head-turner as well -- wk1 does that for me. IMO it would require some tweaks, however, to make it more practical and comfortable:



Remove the portion of the body that divides the cockpit.
Add windshield [obviously]
Offer an optional hardtop, if possible.
Squeeze in a small trunk up front [or somewhere]


That's it!

[seansverige]

Uuh, it may well have been a submission, but the sketch shown on the bottom left (signed Barney '05) is actually a Lotus sketch for the concept that became the 2-11.
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/designcomp.html
I'm sure it's copyright free for editorial use but I'm not sure this qualifies...

[Gun Bunny]

I have to concur with Gearsmith.

How many times have we all started drooling over a concept car that turns into vaporware six months later? Steven Wang's design screams concept car, but looks (with the above tweaks) very doable, manageable, and I think would still look awesome to the owner two years down the road (no loss of novelty factor).

With all respect, Xabier's sketch looks like the (very nicely put-together and still very sexy) lovechild of a Boxster and a Miata. Nice lines? Absolutley. New lines? Not so much...

I can't help but think that you'll be (soon tired of) answering the question of if that's the new Mazda...

[Benji]

I have to concur with Gearsmith.

How many times have we all started drooling over a concept car that turns into vaporware six months later? Steven Wang's design screams concept car, but looks (with the above tweaks) very doable, manageable, and I think would still look awesome to the owner two years down the road (no loss of novelty factor).

With all respect, Xabier's sketch looks like the (very nicely put-together and still very sexy) lovechild of a Boxster and a Miata. Nice lines? Absolutley. New lines? Not so much...

I can't help but think that you'll be (soon tired of) answering the question of if that's the new Mazda...

Ironically I think exactly the opposite, Xabier's car looks considerably more 'doable', considerably more practical, at least considers using elements such as the Impreza's headlights and whilst there are some faint hints of other cars in there, they are just that so in my mind they are new lines.

We do agree on some things though and with all due respect to Steven Wang's design it does indeed scream 'concept car' and for that reason alone and for the very same reason why you almost never see a concept car become a production car, I prefer the more realistic possibility of Xabier's design.

New Mazda? Not really, new Lotus? Maybe, new Ferrari? Less likely, new Pontiac/Saturn Solstice/Sky comeback car? Most likely.

[Oppenheimer]

We do agree on some things though and with all due respect to Steven Wang's design it does indeed scream 'concept car' and for that reason alone and for the very same reason why you almost never see a concept car become a production car, I prefer the more realistic possibility of Xabier's design.

Exactly. I don't want to look like I'm driving around in a cartoon.

[D2W]

I don't want to look like I'm driving around in a cartoon either and Steven Wang' design is too over the top. However I think Xabier's design is way too vanilla. There are already too many miatas/boxters/s2000s around, if I wanted one I would buy it. Give me something low, fast and racy like a lotus 211 or NXXN's design over at Grassroots.

[Oppenheimer]

I don't want to look like I'm driving around in a cartoon either and Steven Wang' design is too over the top. However I think Xabier's design is way too vanilla. There are already too many miatas/boxters/s2000s around, if I wanted one I would buy it. Give me something low, fast and racy like a lotus 211 or NXXN's design over at Grassroots.

I think what mostly makes the 211 look racy is that is doesn't have anything above the beltline except a minimal windscreen. Take the Xabier design, chop off most of the windshield, lose the humps, add a big wing, and you've got a sort of FFR 211. So perhaps if something like the Xabier was chosen, there could be a 'track' body that was the same basic design, but less windshield, bare rollbars, optional wing? Not that you couldn't drive this 'track' version on the street (if your DMV allows), or the 'normal' version on the track.

[keys2heaven]

Seem to recall a lot of kit cars from the 70's & 80's that went for that exotic look. Looking at them now, one would be inclined to say "epic fail".

Steven's car is great conceptially, but I can't consider it more than that. Honestly, I feel like the wife and I would have to dress up like Batman and Robin every time we wanted to drive it (and I hope she would let me be Batman...this time). And our house doesn't have multiple levels, so we couldn't slide down a couple of poles to change.

What I like most about Xabier's drawing is the front grill. It looks like it wants to be a C---a, but more rounded. The rear is nice, but yeah, it is remarkably similar to the Lotus and I'm not sure I'd want people telling me that it looks like it. That's not the takeaway I'd want.

The contest has only been open a couple of weeks and there are some amazing designs. Can't wait to see the ultimate winning design and what FF decides to do with it.

[Olimk2]

Keys to heaven, LOL!! Agree with you.

[Gearsmith]

Oh yeah... one more thing. So I toil and tinker for months and months building my kit car, fuss over getting everything just right, roll it out of my garage all proud and excited, and soon after some auto manufacturer comes out with a similar looking car. That would suck. I don't think that would happen if I built Steven Wang's wk1. And that's a good thing.

[Horhay]

If you built Steven Wangs design I fear most folks would think you'd attempted to build yourself a Mach V.

[Gearsmith]

If you built Steven Wangs design I fear most folks would think you'd attempted to build yourself a Mach V.

Like this one?
1035
Click to enlarge.

[Horhay]

Exactly.

[riptide motorsport]

I concur.

[Gearsmith]

From thebeerbaron's blog (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/entry.php?116-The-danger-of-being-boring):

"Now I understand why Dave Smith has been so vehement that this car knock your socks off. It's not a matter of making a car that is just a good looking car. It has to be striking. Maybe he's not directly suggesting fins and guns (I think the permitting process for mounting automatic weapons to a vehicle might involve more headaches than the entire "Carroll" battle), but in order to be successful, this design has to distinguish itself not only in terms of performance per dollar, but sheer wow factor."

Which is precisely why Steven Wang's week 1 is still my #1 favorite. Yes, it definitely needs few tweaks as noted in my post #6 above, but is very doable and not way out there as some concepts I've seen.


And... a Mach V it is not.

[PhyrraM]

Some of us think just the opposite. I feel week 2 is more "knock your socks off" than week 1. Week 1, to me, is more "Batman, where did you park the car?" and gives me an overall vibe of trying too hard. I agree that both are very workable for the final product. Week 1 just needs a realistic front chin height.

I am enjoying seeing all the drawings/renderings. For those who haven't seen the parrallel thread over on the Grassroots Motosports forums, you should check it out every few days. Lots of good designs over there too.

[Oppenheimer]

Its a fine line. If it looks a little too outragious, even if it performs outragiously it'll only sell to those of us that care more about performance than looks. If it looks like a cartoon, or worse, a 70's kit car, it will still be a great car, just not a great selling car.

I think the looks need to be just wild enough to not look like just another sporting car. Any more risks the looks being a detraction, rather than an asset. Let the performance be the selling point, the looks just need to not get in the way. That is what I like about the Xabier/week 2 design.

[David Budd]

I would like to suggest that Factory Five consider making more than one body style available for the 818 chassis. There will always be a substantial group of potential customers who really want the Batman/Speed Racer/Jetsons avant guard look. At the same time there are probably more than a few geezers like me who yearn for a more nostalgic and classical body design. When I look at the designs picked as the weekly winners so far, I feel a strong need to reach for a lunch bucket. That is just me though, others probably love the swoopy sharp-edged designs just fine. I am more in the C-type Jaguar body style camp although I recognize full well that we are dealing here with a mid-engined (behind the cockpit) chassis which will require side scoops to direct air to the intakes and air to the radiator. This makes sizeable fronts scoops and grills superfluous except for air delivery to the passengers. If there are others out there who agree with me about the idea of having more than a single body design available, it would be helpful if you would make your wishes known here. Otherwise, stand-by for a probable batman derived design.

[Oppenheimer]

I would like to suggest that Factory Five consider making more than one body style available for the 818 chassis. There will always be a substantial group of potential customers who really want the Batman/Speed Racer/Jetsons avant guard look. At the same time there are probably more than a few geezers like me who yearn for a more nostalgic and classical body design. When I look at the designs picked as the weekly winners so far, I feel a strong need to reach for a lunch bucket. That is just me though, others probably love the swoopy sharp-edged designs just fine. I am more in the C-type Jaguar body style camp although I recognize full well that we are dealing here with a mid-engined (behind the cockpit) chassis which will require side scoops to direct air to the intakes and air to the radiator. This makes sizeable fronts scoops and grills superfluous except for air delivery to the passengers. If there are others out there who agree with me about the idea of having more than a single body design available, it would be helpful if you would make your wishes known here. Otherwise, stand-by for a probable batman derived design.

Actually, there is already a 'Multiple Bodies' thread. I'd suggest people post there wishes there instead, to keep things all in one place. Incidentally, Dave replied to that thread and stated that multiple bodies is indeed a possibility (though he didn't hint at when, or how 'if'). So go over to that thread and try to convince him.

[bu11dogg2]

week 2, please!

[archangel]

Driving around in a Cartoon?
The black one looks like the "Batmobile" and the white one does look like Speed Racers "Mach 5"....... they are a bit cartoon-ish.

[Mad Dog]

Team KT - Week 4 Winner for March 25

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/Skitso.jpg

[PhyrraM]

Liking it. Not too exotic, clean lines, simple with a angular slant to it. Looks a little ungainly in the rear, but I'll reserve for another view. I could stand a lower beltline aroung the passenger cell.

[Olimk2]

This Greek team comming with nice things...

[sonicrex]

Thanos' designs are some of my favorites at this point.

[riptide motorsport]

most all of them look great.

[Mad Dog]

Narcis Mares - Week 5 Winner for April 1

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/5IVE.jpg

[Oppenheimer]

TK 4 design: Not liking the triangle shaped indent behind the front wheel, I'd drop that. Most of their other versions of this design I've seen posted didn't have that, and liked those better. Also, the way the line of the top of the rear vent runs all the way to the hood, again, like it better the way its done in some of their other renderings posted elsewhere in this forum.

Overall I _really_ like this design. Its very aggressive, yet does not look like a comic book character. Its exotic, yet does not make one immediately think Ferrari or Lambo. I think it wuold satisfy those looking for something wild, while not upsetting those that don't want a mini-supercar clone. It also appears easy to add a top.

[Oppenheimer]

Narcis Mares, week 5 - Its difficult to comment on this design, as its so difficult to 'see' what it looks like. All I've got to go on is the Iron Man inspired nose (think comic book, not triathalon) with hood scoop, and some sort of external rollbar looking thing going up the outside of the body.

I'd prefer a 3/4 front view from a higher angle. This view looks like I'm sitting on the floor or something. Hoping for more views so effective comments can be supplied.

[Thanas_4]

Oppenheimer, again your comments here are really helpful and interesting. We are going to review those parts and come back with more sketches soon. PhyraM we will also consider your proposals on our design. You both have a point there. Olimk2, Sonicrex thanks a lot for your comments ;)

[Olimk2]

This week winner is somewhat down for me after what we've seen so far...What is doing that STI scoop there?Looks more a Murtaya restyling to me. The facia is nice nevertheless.
Thanas i agree with the comments above, be carefull as well with the air exit before front wheel, it's not really justied for radiator as you have a brake intake blocking it, but moreover this kind of things are a nightmare to produce... I like the blue one most... so far! You're a design student or already working as a designer?

[PhyrraM]

Not liking week 5 at all. Between the Ford-ish nose, the Subaru-ish hood scoop (mid engined?), and the overexagerated wheels I can't find much to like, personally (of course). However, I agree the angle is bad and you can only see the nose.

I'm looking forward to more angles/views.

[Cooluser23]

Not liking week 5 at all. Between the Ford-ish nose, the Subaru-ish hood scoop (mid engined?), and the overexagerated wheels I can't find much to like, personally (of course). However, I agree the angle is bad and you can only see the nose.

I'm looking forward to more angles/views.

I agree. Doesn't look nice at all. Where is the "cab-forward" design that is a trademark of mid-engined cars? So far I like week 4 much better.

[crackedcornish]

where are the pics of the week 3 winner??

[Oppenheimer]

where are the pics of the week 3 winner??

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?1239-Official-Updated-Weekly-Design-Contest-Winners[/URL]

[crackedcornish]

thanks

lets bring it over here so we can see 'em all
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/FFRPerezDesign_small.jpg

[Thanas_4]

I am a design student in a industrial design university, Konstantinos is a professional. However we both have worked with Korres engineering in Greece which is going to present a really impressive vehicle soon (it is being developed for 7 years now).

Anyway about the week 5 winner, I would like to see more sketches so I can judge. I don't like it a lot in the side because all those R8 like designs will always be worst than the original. I like the idea for the front bumper but it certainly needs work.

[Steve91T]

What's with the hood scoop? Week 5 winner looks like a front engine car.

Steve

[crackedcornish]

what's with that weak angle of view on week 5?....It could very well be an El Camino/Ranchero from what you can see from that angle.

we were doing so well, this seems like a step or two back

[2KWIK4U]

Narcis Mares, week 5 - Its difficult to comment on this design, as its so difficult to 'see' what it looks like. All I've got to go on is the Iron Man inspired nose (think comic book, not triathalon) with hood scoop, and some sort of external rollbar looking thing going up the outside of the body.

I'd prefer a 3/4 front view from a higher angle. This view looks like I'm sitting on the floor or something. Hoping for more views so effective comments can be supplied.

I have to agree, it's a very hard angle to see the overall concept.

[Mad Dog]

Leonardo Castilho - Week 6 Co-Winner for April 8

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/week6.jpg

[CooperD]

I'm feelin' it. Very nice!

[Stavros]

Looks cool, but where is the rollover protection? No tracks would let me near them with this car.

[PhyrraM]

Week 6 is nice. A bit of 350/370Z convertable flavor in there.

[Gearsmith]

Leonardo Castilho - Week 6 Winner for April 8

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/week6.jpg

Lovin' this one. Maybe add a side scoop in front of the rear wheel and definitely some kind of roll protection like Stavros mentioned. The rear fender flare is just too damn sexy. This one's on my list! More views, please. :p

[Olimk2]

I agree with Gearsmith, still looks like a front engine car...but it's nice. Xabier's and "Team Greece" still my favorite so far...WHAT!? Only Europeans??

[Slaughter]

Only add side scoops if they are functional. In that note ... only add things that ARE functional

[2KWIK4U]

I like that but I have to agree, it needs rear vents and some brain protection bars.

Nice design

[Xelerator]

Front radiator hood vent of a 2010 Audi R8 GT3
http://cdn2.worldcarfans.co/2008/11/large/audi-r8-gt3-spy-photo-on-nurburgring.jpg

[mn_vette]

Leonardo Castilho - Week 6 Winner for April 8

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/week6.jpg


The profile reminds me alot of the Mitsubishi Elipse Spyder. Which I think is also a very nice looking car.

[PhyrraM]

Why do so many designs seem to get the 'large haunch' look. I know the 'modified wedge' shape is in style currently, but on a car this small I'm wondering if it will work...

Maybe it's not so much the rear, but the mid-section. Every design seems to have a very high window line, which carries to the ungainly rumpus rump. OEMs need side protection, we will only get what FFR puts in the frame, so why still have the high waistline?

[Mad Dog]

Sam Pourbehi - Week 6 Co-Winner for April 8

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/sampourbehi1.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/sampourbehi2.jpg

[phenotyp]

Why do so many designs seem to get the 'large haunch' look. I know the 'modified wedge' shape is in style currently, but on a car this small I'm wondering if it will work...

Maybe it's not so much the rear, but the mid-section. Every design seems to have a very high window line, which carries to the ungainly rumpus rump. OEMs need side protection, we will only get what FFR puts in the frame, so why still have the high waistline?

It's largely a result of the bizarre package-- the driver and engine are way too far back to allow for a graceful mid-engined design. If you want to have the driver sitting that high, then pile rollbars on behind him, and hang the engine that far back, you're going to get a really strange-looking thing unless you really, really force it.

[Olimk2]

PhyrraM you should be happy with my first entry then...Just wait one week!

[PhyrraM]

Cool, looking forward to it.

[sub322]

Now, if you can put the rear end of week six on the week four winner I would love to see what that looks like. The front of week six looks to busy with all of the open area.

[Oppenheimer]

Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet, but it appears the week 6 co-winner (Sam Pourbehi - post #57) nose is supposed to pay homage to the 2004+ Subaru grill. I like that in concept, but it does appear to be a little over the top in how huge the opening is. Like there is a gas turbine engine in there or something, going to suck up pets and small children.

I like this design, but I can't help feeling that it looks too much like a kit. The totally flat rear needs more refinement, and the rest of the car, something about the lines, the shape, looks incomplete. Like a pro designers first (or second) sketch, before he got serious and turned it into something great. I feel bad saying this, because it looks like Sam put a lot of thought and effort into it. It IS a great outline, but something still needs work, it needs to lose the kit feel.

The other week 6 design, Leonardo Castilho , post #46, I like this too. I like that it looks like it could be a real production car (though I think the 818 should look like an outragious production car), but I'm not crazy about the 'jagged tilde' body line on the door looks. Just looks unecessary and out of place.

[Olimk2]

OPPENHEIMER, i agree with your point of view, Sam's design could be refined a bit more with strong lines.
The front is razor sharp (forget it with pedestrian security), the overall car is purposeful but lacks this little something that's make all the difference and stand out of the lot...

[PhyrraM]

The colored version of Week 6 winner (Lenardo Castilho) is posted on the GRM winners page. It looks a lot like the colored versions of Xabier's entry. I like the distinctive lines of Xabier's nose better. Also Xabier added some side vents into the basic design that would need working into Lenardo's.

Over all, pretty close in concept to each other.

[Olimk2]

Still nothing for week 7, arrgghh...

[crackedcornish]

week 6 was a little tame for me, I want something with a little more curb appeal than that

[Olimk2]

Week 6 colored...

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/F5%20weekly%20winners/nextff%20leo%20cast%201.jpg

[armstrom]

Week 6 colored...

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/F5%20weekly%20winners/nextff%20leo%20cast%201.jpg

Give me even the most BASIC provision for a roof (cloth roof and plexi rear window or something similar) and I'd drive the hell outa that :) Nice job!
-Matt

[mn_vette]

So has anybody come up with a design that has no air inlet in the front? Dave said that he might find a way to do a rear radiator if the design was cool enough. Why not take out the front air inlet all together and see how it looks. I would think we could have a very low nose/hood position without worring about the radiator.

[crackedcornish]

So has anybody come up with a design that has no air inlet in the front? Dave said that he might find a way to do a rear radiator if the design was cool enough. Why not take out the front air inlet all together and see how it looks. I would think we could have a very low nose/hood position without worring about the radiator.

you mean sorta' like this?
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/crackedcornish/91359b6e.jpg
pic taken from the web...not mine

[PhyrraM]

So has anybody come up with a design that has no air inlet in the front? Dave said that he might find a way to do a rear radiator if the design was cool enough. Why not take out the front air inlet all together and see how it looks. I would think we could have a very low nose/hood position without worring about the radiator.

I think there are a few reasons most seem to have a front radiator......

Many of the more popular designs (so far) seem to be from members not in the USA. I know in Europe noses that low are not allowed anymore because of very real pedestrian safety laws. I cannot say how a 'kit car' is effected though.

Even in the USA, headlight height is a big concern. IIRC, 22" to the center of the light is the lowest for any state's standards. Many are 24".

I also think that many probable entrants are purposely re-using WRX and/or common parts (like the radiator) in an effort to increase thier chances of winning. I, personally, don't think this will work as well as intended because Dave (and others) have said the designs shouldn't be restricted to the *assumed* current format. That being said, if I could draw I would also work within the confines of the WRX partsbook. For me working within the stated project goal would be part of the challange - because my $5000 would just be given back to FFR for credit on the kit.

[Xelerator]

Roll cage integration, Spyker C8 Spyder GT2R

http://wallpapers.free-review.net/wallpapers/17/Spyker_C8_Spyder_GT2R.jpg

More pictures (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2320/Spyker-C8-Spyder-GT2-R.html)

[mn_vette]

I think there are a few reasons most seem to have a front radiator......

Many of the more popular designs (so far) seem to be from members not in the USA. I know in Europe noses that low are not allowed anymore because of very real pedestrian safety laws. I cannot say how a 'kit car' is effected though.

Even in the USA, headlight height is a big concern. IIRC, 22" to the center of the light is the lowest for any state's standards. Many are 24".

I also think that many probable entrants are purposely re-using WRX and/or common parts (like the radiator) in an effort to increase thier chances of winning. I, personally, don't think this will work as well as intended because Dave (and others) have said the designs shouldn't be restricted to the *assumed* current format. That being said, if I could draw I would also work within the confines of the WRX partsbook. For me working within the stated project goal would be part of the challange - because my $5000 would just be given back to FFR for credit on the kit.

Hopefully more people start thinking like Designers and not engineers. Dave and his team can make the design fit with some teaks here and there, but its the design they are looking for now. Time for some people to start thinking out of the box and pull out some radically cool designs.

Notice there are several design weekly winners that don't use the template, but they just design what they think looks good.

[Mad Dog]

Tim Brewster - Week 7 Winner for April 15

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/tbrewster.jpg

Alessio Minchella - Week 7 Co-Winner for April 15

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/Minchella.jpg

[crackedcornish]

Tim Brewster - Week 7 Winner for April 15

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/tbrewster.jpg

I think I have a new favorite now......

[Cooluser23]

I'm glad to see more designs, but it seems that most recent submissions look remarkably similar. Are there more exotic designs being submitted as well?

I like the style of the week 4 winner, but wish we were pushing the envelope a bit.

[Wilky]

I'm really liking the designs....this is still more then a year away and I am dreaming about the build and driving it.

[D2W]

I'm glad to see more designs, but it seems that most recent submissions look remarkably similar. Are there more exotic designs being submitted as well?

I like the style of the week 4 winner, but wish we were pushing the envelope a bit.

I agree that a lot of the designs are similiar, and I think it's because people are trying to design to the template that FFR provided. In the beginning I thought more information about the chassis and layout were important, but now I see that the submissions are all very similiar. I'd like to see people going off on their own, moving the driver forward/down, keeping everything super low. A lot of the designs have an ugly bulbous top because of the driver position.

[Cooluser23]

I thought this is a "design" stage, and not final construction. Maybe Factory Five could make a blog post/release explaining that the engineering/frame design can be altered to adapt to the design. Maybe then we will see more designs that push the envelope a bit.

[D2W]

I thought this is a "design" stage, and not final construction. Maybe Factory Five could make a blog post/release explaining that the engineering/frame design can be altered to adapt to the design. Maybe then we will see more designs that push the envelope a bit.

They have, multiple times. People just seem unable to accept it.
I find it interesting that what I consider to be the best looking designs are the ones that ignore some of the basic dimensions of the template like driver location and height and draw whatever they want. How well these designs could be transferred into reality is another matter.

[PhyrraM]

They have, multiple times. People just seem unable to accept it.
.

Very true. I believe most are trying to win instead of just designing. In thier effort to win they are doing what they *assume* FFR wants to see, based on other statements FFR has made. Statements suchs as "Single donor", "$10K kit price", "No bodywork by using gelcoat panels", etc.

I'm not an artist, so my natural inclination would be to design to those (artificial?) constraints also. I have a feeling it's the natural artists that can shed the apparant design constrainst the easiest. What method of thinking will eventually win? No idea.

On a personal note, I have no desire to see an otherwise excellent design win, and then get murdered in the translation to production.

[Olimk2]

Very true. I believe most are trying to win instead of just designing. In thier effort to win they are doing what they *assume* FFR wants to see, based on other statements FFR has made. Statements suchs as "Single donor", "$10K kit price", "No bodywork by using gelcoat panels", etc.

I'm not an artist, so my natural inclination would be to design to those (artificial?) constraints also. I have a feeling it's the natural artists that can shed the apparant design constrainst the easiest. What method of thinking will eventually win? No idea.

On a personal note, I have no desire to see an otherwise excellent design win, and then get murdered in the translation to production.

I am in this case, trying to follow the original target, will it pay in the end? Don't know... Yes it's "easy" to make a stuning rendering, much harder to make a stuning production car...
What the point if the winner design can't make it to production (contest rules admit this, remind that this contest is getting ideas over a final product)?
I would be sad to see that the final 818 has almost nothing to do with some finalist designs.
The best reward for a car designer (as we are, all contestants, pro or not!) is to see his creation becoming reality, i had this chance already and what a satisfaction!

[AC Life]

Dave Smith

FF 818

Pls consider designing the engine bay large enough to take a Ford Duratec 3.5 Litre V6 turbo, this generation of engine will see the 818 with all the power needs for its development life cycle.
Silhouette of a Dino Ferrari 244GT would go nicely and fit the specs nicely too.

AC Life

[readymix]

Dave Smith

FF 818

Pls consider designing the engine bay large enough to take a Ford Duratec 3.5 Litre V6 turbo, this generation of engine will see the 818 with all the power needs for its development life cycle.
Silhouette of a Dino Ferrari 244GT would go nicely and fit the specs nicely too.

AC Life


World Car

The engine has been chosen already. The Subaru was chosen because of its worldwide availability for donor cars, and because the donor car has many useable parts that are common through the entire line of Subaru cars.

[Gary in NJ]

Dave Smith

FF 818

Pls consider designing the engine bay large enough to take a Ford Duratec 3.5 Litre V6 turbo, this generation of engine will see the 818 with all the power needs for its development life cycle.
Silhouette of a Dino Ferrari 244GT would go nicely and fit the specs nicely too.

AC Life

Dave,

Please change everything to change my individual desires.

You've got to be kidding me!

[readymix]

Dave,

Please change everything to change my individual desires.

You've got to be kidding me!

I think he's just wary of what happens when he says EcoBoost in 3 different posts in three different threads. He's done it twice in two threads now. And I hear if you do it a third time, Beetlejuice pulls you into the Underworld and tries to scare you away from the forums.

[16g-95gsx]

AC Life, you just need to realize that a custom engine is simply something that the end user will need to implement. I don't disagree that there are other great engine and drivetrain choices out there, and hopefully there will be available room for these without major body changes, but ultimately I dont think it FF will set the car up for multiple manufacturers engines.

There are also a LOT of Subaru guys already covering this board, so it is tough to argue the merits of other engine choices. In the end I'd say just keep quiet about your own personal choices, and get to work when the car comes out making it a reality. I will say personally that I'm not a fan of the EJ engine series, and think that there are other better options out there, but I do see the reason that it was chosen from a cost/availability aspect.

[Xelerator]

I like that a lot:

Zenvo ST1

http://allasport.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Review-design-Zenvo-ST1.jpg

More pics (http://www.google.com/search?q=Zenvo+ST1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=GrC&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=5-K0TfitIYiPtwft8NHnDg&ved=0CBgQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=898)

[vader wagon]

I'd love it, no matter what... Evolved and improved versions of the Porsche 914, Honda CRX or Toyota AE86 would be nifty benchmarks in my opinion. I don't mind "Lotus-y," but Lotus and F5 are chasing the same goals, so it might be good to be distinctive from them.

Whatever it is... I'm excited to see it!

[Cooluser23]

I think Factory Five should do another press release in May to be picked up by all the blogs and online media outlets. A last push for creative designs before the contest ends.
It may expand exposure for the project a bit more.

Can't wait for the interior design competition, which I'm hoping to be next.

[Olimk2]

The interior is included in the contest, so far nothing shown but you can include that when you submit a project.

[Mad Dog]

Sebastian Mihai - Week 8 Winner for April 22

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/srconcept.jpg

[Nelff]

love the mad dog

[Wilky]

Wheres the other co-winner for week 8?

[sub322]

Their is one thing with some of the designs are making me think about.
I think here in Pennsylvania you must have wheel covered the with fender
to the horizontal center line of the wheel. I think Hot Rods are ok but kit
maybe classified different. Can anyone answer this.

[crackedcornish]

Their is one thing with some of the designs are making me think about.
I think here in Pennsylvania you must have wheel covered the with fender
to the horizontal center line of the wheel. I think Hot Rods are ok but kit
maybe classified different. Can anyone answer this.

my Jeep doesn't cover the wheels, in fact you can see the entire front tire when looking at it from in front of the vehicle, and I have no problems

[Doc_FFR]

Is it just me, or is anyone else feeling a lack of excitement about the design winners of the past few weeks? IMHO, everything is starting to look the same.

[readymix]

Is it just me, or is anyone else feeling a lack of excitement about the design winners of the past few weeks? IMHO, everything is starting to look the same.

My lack of excitement is coming from all the designs with huge front air holes and bulging hood lines. It's mid-engine. The radiator is up front and that's it. And it's mounted at an angle. That gives you the ability to make the hood slanted alot. A small inlet and outlet up front is all that is really needed. But the designs I keep seeing seem to feel that there is a need up front for storage space to accommodate a week's worth of luggage, a golf bag and a small child. Some people like the edgy batmobile look, but I'd rather have something smooth and sleek, there are some designs being submitted that fit the bill for me, but then the new weekly winner gets announced, and it is more of the same...big scoops and pointless holes all over it, or it looks like something Batman would drive.

[D2W]

Yeah I agree, all the design submissions are too big, too bulky, too much like any other production car. Give me light/simple/small, (Lotus 211).

[GotVic]

Yeah I agree, all the design submissions are too big, too bulky, too much like any other production car. Give me light/simple/small, (Lotus 211).

x1000

[readymix]

Yeah I agree, all the design submissions are too big, too bulky, too much like any other production car. Give me light/simple/small, (Lotus 211).

Lotus 211 with a full windshield and a removable top of some sort. I'm all for that.

[olpro]

... and throw in AC, a Bose stereo and power seats.

[readymix]

... and throw in AC, a Bose stereo and power seats.

NO, Maybe, and no. A/C in a roadster? Blasphemy. Bose stereo? Maybe, ANY stereo. Gotta have tunes. Power seats? I'd be fine with a fixed mount Sparco bucket to be honest.

[VF48WRX]

does the chassis require a front mounted radiator? I don't see why you couldn't rear mount the radiator. Just something to consider. This would eliminate the need for huge air holes in the fascia. I'm not a fan of gaping holes in the front of the car.

[Niburu]

A/C in a roadster?

I take it you've never driven in 100 degree temps at 100% humidity while stuck in slow moving traffic since you're in MN
where I imagine that it never gets that hot, humid, or have enough people to cause traffic congestion.

[readymix]

Can't speak to the heat, we get our share of humidity for sure...summer = mosquitos and the need for gills to breathe. Traffic? Half our freeways look like they were air-lifted in from a war torn, third world hell hole. And 90% of our interstates and freeways have only 2 lanes most of the time through the metro area. Getting anywhere in Minneapolis is an absolute nightmare. Minneapolis+St.Paul = over 600k people. But then factor in the surrounding suburb areas and the total comes in closer to 1.5 million people. And they all need to get to the tiny metro areas of St. Paul and Minneapolis. Our freeways hit deadlock pretty quickly. We're no Chicago, but we suck for sure.

Oh, and I haven't had A/C since 2008. I don't see much of a problem with it.

[D2W]

does the chassis require a front mounted radiator? I don't see why you couldn't rear mount the radiator. Just something to consider. This would eliminate the need for huge air holes in the fascia. I'm not a fan of gaping holes in the front of the car.

I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere while doing research for another mid-engine project that the side ducts on the rear quarter panels do not pull in enough air to efficiently cool a radiator because of the turbulance down the side of the car. A mid-engine car already has plenty of heat in the back. Add an intercooler and a radiator just seems like it's going to create a problem. Does anyone know of a mid or rear engine car that has the radiator in the back? I only know of one, and it was mounted horizontally above the engine where an intercooler was supposed to sit. Not the best solution.

[Cooluser23]

or 2 smaller air inlets on the side instead of a gaping one in the front: Porsche, Lamborghini, etc. style

Or even better, 2 small radiators behind the doors like a true exotic. We don't need anything in the front if the car is mid-engined. Just kills aerodynamics, gas mileage, and makes the style boring.

[Cooluser23]

Very true. I believe most are trying to win instead of just designing. In thier effort to win they are doing what they *assume* FFR wants to see, based on other statements FFR has made. Statements suchs as "Single donor", "$10K kit price", "No bodywork by using gelcoat panels", etc.

I'm not an artist, so my natural inclination would be to design to those (artificial?) constraints also. I have a feeling it's the natural artists that can shed the apparant design constrainst the easiest. What method of thinking will eventually win? No idea.

On a personal note, I have no desire to see an otherwise excellent design win, and then get murdered in the translation to production.

Well, I hope another announcement from FFR will help remedy that. Less constraints, more creative design..

Also, I'm sure FFR is flexible enough not to murder the winning design onto production. Even if some of the original parameters need to be changed.

[Cooluser23]

The interior is included in the contest, so far nothing shown but you can include that when you submit a project.

Not a bad idea. I will do that. I do have to admit though, that to me the interior is almost more important than the exterior. - Mostly because I'm planning to spend more time inside the car driving it, than outside staring at a parked car. that's just me though. :-p

[Cooluser23]

Is it just me, or is anyone else feeling a lack of excitement about the design winners of the past few weeks? IMHO, everything is starting to look the same.

Nope, you're not the only one.. :(

Maybe it's because this contest is only posted on Grassroots Motorsports and FFR, maybe it needs more internet exposure. There are tons of design blogs out there, some even focusing on car design. I posted about this contest to many forums and blogs I'm a part of, but only few picked it up. I think it would be much more official if FFR would do another press release announcing the final weeks of the contest.

Are design schools all over the world contacted about this project? I think that would make a great final project for some students of these design schools. The money is also a nice bonus. Please help out by doing your part and contacting design schools you know about this project. I'm sure the more of us contact these schools, the more it will be picked up. :D

[Cooluser23]

... and throw in AC, a Bose stereo and power seats.

AC would be nice. (it gets to be over 100*F/40*C where I live) (and it's something that needs to be designed in from the beginning)

Things like Bose stereo, power seats, can be done by the builder afterwards.. Make it custom, make it yours.

[Cooluser23]

I take it you've never driven in 100 degree temps at 100% humidity while stuck in slow moving traffic since you're in MN
where I imagine that it never gets that hot, humid, or have enough people to cause traffic congestion.

Even in California's dry 100*F weather A/C is a requirement. It makes for a very uncomfortable car and a very *****y girlfriend if passengers aren't comfortable. - Trust me I know!!!!!

On Track days it's nice to crank the A/C to full before hitting the track to cool down the cockpit, so you don't sweat like a pig before one even it the actual road course. Cars can get really hot on the paddock.

If the donor car has A/C I see no reason as to why not include it in the final kit. If a builder chooses not to install it, it's his choice, the rest of us would like the option.

[riptide motorsport]

I pretty much like all the designs.

[arif]

Nope, you're not the only one.. :(

Maybe it's because this contest is only posted on Grassroots Motorsports and FFR, maybe it needs more internet exposure. There are tons of design blogs out there, some even focusing on car design. I posted about this contest to many forums and blogs I'm a part of, but only few picked it up. I think it would be much more official if FFR would do another press release announcing the final weeks of the contest.

Are design schools all over the world contacted about this project? I think that would make a great final project for some students of these design schools. The money is also a nice bonus. Please help out by doing your part and contacting design schools you know about this project. I'm sure the more of us contact these schools, the more it will be picked up. :D

what you think with this? I just submitted for the contest.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/7792/design310.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/695/design310.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/4141/15689978.jpg (http://img860.imageshack.us/i/15689978.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3968/design311.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/i/design311.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/factory-five-design-contest-thread/32412/page44/#post578758

[Doc_FFR]

Awesome car there man. It needs a full windshield though. Very exciting body style! :)

[readymix]

Awesome car there man. It needs a full windshield though. Very exciting body style! :)

I agree. Give it a full windshield. Having it be a convertible top looks feasible in this design. Very nice work, arif.

[CooperD]

arif - I'm really diggin' that design, nice job.

[Wilky]

what you think with this? I just submitted for the contest.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/7792/design310.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/695/design310.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/4141/15689978.jpg (http://img860.imageshack.us/i/15689978.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3968/design311.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/i/design311.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/factory-five-design-contest-thread/32412/page44/#post578758


This I like a lot....looks like a modern version of a classic design. No A/C!!! how many Cobra's have a/c?! My guess none.... this is not an everyday driver. At least it shouldn't be.

[crackedcornish]

to some, that arif design may look too much like a $helby $eries 1 for comfort :0(

[Doc_FFR]

to some, that arif design may look too much like a $helby $eries 1 for comfort :0(

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7077/shelbyseries1.jpg (http://img824.imageshack.us/i/shelbyseries1.jpg/)

A little, but not enough for a lawsuit if that is what you are driving at.

[arif]

Thx for all positive feedbacks, here more images:

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/996/design312.jpg (http://img847.imageshack.us/i/design312.jpg/)
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7834/design313.jpg (http://img832.imageshack.us/i/design313.jpg/)
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2513/design34.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/design34.jpg/)
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/10/design32b.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/design32b.jpg/)
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9250/52876013.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/52876013.jpg/)
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/5173/design35.jpg (http://img828.imageshack.us/i/design35.jpg/)

[16g-95gsx]

to some, that arif design may look too much like a $helby $eries 1 for comfort :0(

Why because it has orange stripes? I don't think a company can sue over a paint job. Otherwise it looks nothing like a series 1

[Magnus]

NO, Maybe, and no. A/C in a roadster? Blasphemy. Bose stereo? Maybe, ANY stereo. Gotta have tunes. Power seats? I'd be fine with a fixed mount Sparco bucket to be honest.

Let me explain something about the A/C: roadsters are rain-magnets and at some point you will get caught in a deluge (unless you are one of those guys that come up to me and say "I've got one of those at home in the garage but I never drive it because I can't predict summer weather.")
So what does that have to do with the A/C? Well, in a downpour, some moisture will get into the cabin and it will condense onto the inside of the windows and you will poop your pants because all of a sudden you can't even see the tail lights on the car in front and you are in bumper-to-bumper New York traffic and you can't switch lanes because you can't see your mirrors because everything is fogged over. It is "fear" defined. And don't get me started on Rain-X Anti-Fog or wiping the windows with a rag--the only effective way of de-fogging the windows is the A/C.
When I had my car built I thought the A/C was frivolous luxury, now I consider it a safety device.
Granted, if you were a poser and only plan on driving to the cruise-in down the block, don't get the A/C, but if you ever venture outside of city limits I highly recommend that the 818 be fitted with a de-fogger (aka A/C).

As for stereo--My Roadster has no stereo and in 25,000 miles in that car I haven't missed it; the car is entertainment enough for me. Maybe if the car fails to be thrilling enough I'll consider installing a stereo...or get a more exciting car.

[arif]

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7077/shelbyseries1.jpg (http://img824.imageshack.us/i/shelbyseries1.jpg/)

A little, but not enough for a lawsuit if that is what you are driving at.

That's interesting, I just realized if my design similar to ****** series 1, even from back view. Anyway, I didn't get inspiration from ******. That is a merried between my previous designs, after somebody explain me some technical aspect.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7353/63873541.jpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/i/63873541.jpg/)

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3267/94188498.jpg (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/94188498.jpg/)

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9516/73346969.jpg (http://img580.imageshack.us/i/73346969.jpg/)

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1038/33554741.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/33554741.jpg/)

[arif]

Why because it has orange stripes? I don't think a company can sue over a paint job. Otherwise it looks nothing like a series 1

It must be modern version of ****** series 1.... just kidding.

[Magnus]

Why because it has orange stripes? I don't think a company can sue over a paint job. Otherwise it looks nothing like a series 1

No, not because of the stripes but because we know how [insert name of your favorite, litigious, chicken-farming texan here] has operated in the past.

[GUNS]

The first thing that I thought of when I saw Arif's design was the series 1 and it wasn't b/c of the stripes. The overall shape of the car is very similar and the biggest similarities are in the front bumper/hood. I'm not saying that it looks like an exact copy, but it's very similar. With that being said, it does look good!

[Gary in NJ]

what you think with this? I just submitted for the contest.

Best I've seen. I also find it to be original.

[Mechazawa]

Arif--I have been following your progress on the GRM boards, and I think your latest design is phenomenal, I don't think it resembles the series 1 very much at all. I can tell that some changes would be needed to execute in fiberglass without parting lines or panel seams in bad places, and I wish it had a roof (forgive me if I like this car too much to see it relegated to occasional use, I can see a good way to add a hard top at least!)

I think the relatively long overhangs you used are a good idea, they will improve the aerodynamics without weighing enough to damage the handling, and they improve the cars visual balance given the high driving position.

[CooperD]

Wow - this is beautiful and elegant - my new favorite!

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9516/73346969.jpg

[Colvindesign]

Would love to know who the latest weekly winner is.

I entered my design, recently named Nezerra which is Italian for "Darkness"

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6215/nezerra.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/36/nezerra.jpg/)

[arif]

Arif--I have been following your progress on the GRM boards, and I think your latest design is phenomenal, I don't think it resembles the series 1 very much at all. I can tell that some changes would be needed to execute in fiberglass without parting lines or panel seams in bad places, and I wish it had a roof (forgive me if I like this car too much to see it relegated to occasional use, I can see a good way to add a hard top at least!)

I think the relatively long overhangs you used are a good idea, they will improve the aerodynamics without weighing enough to damage the handling, and they improve the cars visual balance given the high driving position.

Thx for commenting. Absolutely I will put hardtop on this design later. Stil working on new cobra now. Let see your thoughts!

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8365/67476463.jpg (http://img842.imageshack.us/i/67476463.jpg/)
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/417/72335861.jpg (http://img843.imageshack.us/i/72335861.jpg/)
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3402/70978399.jpg (http://img856.imageshack.us/i/70978399.jpg/)

[VTX]

Wow - this is beautiful and elegant - my new favorite!

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9516/73346969.jpg

Yeah, I really like this the best out of all the ones arif has done. Wonder if we could see a hard top version?

[Oppenheimer]

Yeah, I really like this the best out of all the ones arif has done. Wonder if we could see a hard top version?

+1.

[Olimk2]

The new cob is fine to me except the lights, you should try New MINI ones...

[Benji]

The new cob is fine to me except the lights, you should try New MINI ones...

Or perhaps say.... the blobeye Impreza lights since that is what they are basing it on, no?

I understand they may not work at all given the angles of everything but worth a shot?

[readymix]

Or perhaps say.... the blobeye Impreza lights since that is what they are basing it on, no?

I understand they may not work at all given the angles of everything but worth a shot?

They are basing it on the 02-07 Impreza. There's 3 different headlamp designs from the GD chassis era.

[Gary in NJ]

Just a hint of the Mach V in this one. And that's a good thing.


Wow - this is beautiful and elegant - my new favorite!

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9516/73346969.jpg

[Benji]

They are basing it on the 02-07 Impreza. There's 3 different headlamp designs from the GD chassis era.

I think you missed the point :D

[StatGSR]

I think you missed the point :D

not sure how he is missing the point and your getting it....:confused:

I don't see any reason why this car should be using any of the oem subaru headlights (or any other company's OEM headlights for that matter) cheap/simple hellas make the most sense.

[crackedcornish]

not sure how he is missing the point and your getting it....:confused:

I don't see any reason why this car should be using any of the oem subaru headlights (or any other company's OEM headlights for that matter) cheap/simple hellas make the most sense.
from the 818 project page at FFR


Single Donor Subaru WRX Running Gear..(this means I shouldn't need to buy any parts to complete the car, they are already on the donor car)


Factory Five Space Frame Chassis, 95" Wheel Base


Mid-Engine, Rear Wheel Drive Configuration


Target weight - 1,800 lbs./818 kg.


Two Seater Sports Car Design


No Paint, Gel Coat Panels


Target Kit Price: $9,900


Target Vehicle Completion Cost Under $15,000

[readymix]

I think you missed the point :D

And what point is that? Unless your point is that Factory Five is now going to limit the donor cars to 04-05 instead of 02-07. Which, as far as I've seen and heard, they are not. Plus, nothing screams "cheap kit car" like using recognizable headlamps from a donor car. Hella and Valeo, along with half a dozen other companies, make generic projector housings for headlamps. They mount to any flat surface. And they are pretty cheap (60/pair). It's cheaper, and it looks far more professional if you make an integrated sealed beam headlamp with off the shelf projectors. The lamp shape can be made to fit the shape of the car properly, and it costs about 1/3 of what it costs to buy OEM Subaru headlamp assemblies. IIRC, the last time I was looking to fix a headlamp, the unit cost was around 120 per assembly...so for 2 headlamps, it's 240 bucks. So, with your 'idea', anyone that didn't get an 04-05 model year donor Impreza is now going to have to foot the bill for 240 dollar headlamps.

What was your point again?

[readymix]

from the 818 project page at FFR


Single Donor Subaru WRX Running Gear..(this means I shouldn't need to buy any parts to complete the car, they are already on the donor car)


Factory Five Space Frame Chassis, 95" Wheel Base


Mid-Engine, Rear Wheel Drive Configuration


Target weight - 1,800 lbs./818 kg.


Two Seater Sports Car Design


No Paint, Gel Coat Panels


Target Kit Price: $9,900


Target Vehicle Completion Cost Under $15,000

So, Factory Five can only supply a frame and gel coated panels with their kit? They can't integrate a 60 dollar pair of projectors into their kit? I wonder if Factory Five is going to make us re-use frame bolts from the donor car too, instead of providing specific fasteners for their kit.

[crackedcornish]

So, Factory Five can only supply a frame and gel coated panels with their kit? They can't integrate a 60 dollar pair of projectors into their kit? I wonder if Factory Five is going to make us re-use frame bolts from the donor car too, instead of providing specific fasteners for their kit.

I should have said...I shouldn't have to buy any additional parts...as in, they should either be on the donor or in the kit :o

[818_Fan_15]

And what point is that? Unless your point is that Factory Five is now going to limit the donor cars to 04-05 instead of 02-07. Which, as far as I've seen and heard, they are not. Plus, nothing screams "cheap kit car" like using recognizable headlamps from a donor car. Hella and Valeo, along with half a dozen other companies, make generic projector housings for headlamps. They mount to any flat surface. And they are pretty cheap (60/pair). It's cheaper, and it looks far more professional if you make an integrated sealed beam headlamp with off the shelf projectors. The lamp shape can be made to fit the shape of the car properly, and it costs about 1/3 of what it costs to buy OEM Subaru headlamp assemblies. IIRC, the last time I was looking to fix a headlamp, the unit cost was around 120 per assembly...so for 2 headlamps, it's 240 bucks. So, with your 'idea', anyone that didn't get an 04-05 model year donor Impreza is now going to have to foot the bill for 240 dollar headlamps.

What was your point again?

I like Hella universal projector lamps. They come in 60mm and 90mm. They're affordable, and will give the car a unique look.
http://www.carbodykits.com/images/D/Hella-90mm-Low-Beam.jpg

http://www.rallylights.com/images/60mm_lg.jpg

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt142/RadioflyerCustoms/IMG_0967.jpg

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt142/RadioflyerCustoms/IMG_0903.jpg

Besides, what's the chance of finding a Subaru at a junkyard with the headlights not smashed in?

[readymix]

I should have said...I shouldn't have to buy any additional parts...as in, they should either be on the donor or in the kit :o

LOL, fair enough.

Personally, I would MUCH rather have FF provide projectors in an integrated assembly (like the GTM does) than use Subaru OEM headlamp assemblies. Same with the tail lamps. Use the same generic round hella tail lamps they use on the GTM. They are low cost, and they don't look like you molded Subaru OEM taillamps into a kit car.

[PhyrraM]

LOL, fair enough.

Personally, I would MUCH rather have FF provide projectors in an integrated assembly (like the GTM does) than use Subaru OEM headlamp assemblies. Same with the tail lamps. Use the same generic round hella tail lamps they use on the GTM. They are low cost, and they don't look like you molded Subaru OEM taillamps into a kit car.

But they do look like an afterthought. :p

I fully agree that everything but gas should come from either the (running) donor or the kit. Almost everyone will volunteer to add something to make it thier own, but nobody should be forced to.

[olpro]

I agree with using the Hellas although the workouts on the GTM are not well done at all.

[readymix]

I agree with using the Hellas although the workouts on the GTM are not well done at all.

I'm not really debating the GTM's headlamps. Just that a similar functional design to the GTM (integrated housing + clear cover + OTS hella projectors) would be a better option and allow much more design flexibility than would using the Subaru OEM headlamps. Their variance in shapes and styles alone with regards to the OEM lamps makes designing the car around them nearly impossible. A body style that incorporates the bug-eyed headlamp from the 02-03 years would probably look terrible with the 06-07 year lamps. So much so, that the body lines would be completely off.

[Oppenheimer]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is many donors will be wrecks, with smashed headlights. Perhaps another reason not to incorporate the Subaru headlights in the design.

[16g-95gsx]

They said "running gear" from a wrx/subaru. I don't believe the headlights are part of the powertrain/suspension. Headlights are cheap, and there's no reason to force the body to match oem headlight styling instead of the other way around.

[Mad Dog]

Chris Mahoney - Week 9 Winner for April 29

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/cmahoney.jpg

[riptide motorsport]

nice design.

[PhyrraM]

EEEK! Too much....of....everything.

[readymix]

EEEK! Too much....of....everything.

da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da BATMAAAAAAAAN!!!

Seriously. More huge front scoops that go nowhere. Apparently, not all applicants have seen the size of a Subaru radiator before, because that design seems to assume that the radiator is about a foot wide. If you remove those useless air funnels from the sides of the center "hood boner" and smooth the hood area over a bit, it might look pretty cool. Because, here again, you have the main air intake on the front that would feed the radiator, going absolutely nowhere. And then the two useless sidescoops vent out the top. If they are going for aerodynamics with those to add some downforce, ok, but still...moderation. I like the curves in the waist region though.

[Gary in NJ]

Looks like...well...a kit car. I'm not a fan.

[StatGSR]

Looks like...well...a kit car. I'm not a fan.

not sure i understand that. what makes a car not look like a kit car? does it have to be made by a relatively unknown company? does it look cheap? does it look different? i mean i understand if a car looks like a kit car because it looks home built, but where do you draw the line. I think the only thing that makes a car not look like a kit car is general fit and finish.

does this look like a kit car? cause its not really a kit car
http://www.kardude.com/images/gumpert-apollo.jpg

[Gary in NJ]

not sure i understand that. what makes a car not look like a kit car? does it have to be made by a relatively unknown company? does it look cheap? does it look different

I should have said "cartoonish" not "kit car". Some companies produce very mature looking designs (Factory 5) while others produce garish looking monstrosities. So let me restate post #157:

The car looks cartoonish. I'm not a fan.

[CooperD]

I am generally concerned about the trend towards really over the top designs that seem to be coming through the contest lately. Where's a sense of elegance and balance, instead of just "wow! look at me! I've got scoops and fins and stuff!".

Sorry - maybe I'm boring, but I'm not a big fan of most "supercar" designs anyway. Give me a sense of understated performance and self-confidence instead of brash and overbearing. I'm really hopeful that the 818 turns out to be a car that I won't be embarrassed to be seen in. At least arif's designs so far have looked like a car I'd love to drive :)

[readymix]

Agreed, as far as 3D renders go, Arif's design looks like something I would drive and enjoy driving. I also still love Thanas-4's submission.

[riptide motorsport]

CooperD.....methinks your showing your age!!!:)

[Colvindesign]

Didn't even get a single comment....... :(

[GUNS]

I am generally concerned about the trend towards really over the top designs that seem to be coming through the contest lately. Where's a sense of elegance and balance, instead of just "wow! look at me! I've got scoops and fins and stuff!".

Sorry - maybe I'm boring, but I'm not a big fan of most "supercar" designs anyway. Give me a sense of understated performance and self-confidence instead of brash and overbearing. I'm really hopeful that the 818 turns out to be a car that I won't be embarrassed to be seen in. At least arif's designs so far have looked like a car I'd love to drive :)

I disagree with you. This is a rare chance to make something really different. There are plenty of manufactures that make a "nice" looking sports car that appeals to the masses. I want something that is completely unique, but at the same time functional. I agree that there needs to be a limit, but I also don't want a car that looks like every other boring sports car out there. IMHO.

[Doc_FFR]

Chris Mahoney - Week 9 Winner for April 29

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/cmahoney.jpg

Well done. Show us your rear end!

[riptide motorsport]

Colvin: If your referring to the Nezzera..........I like it............Steven

[Doc_FFR]

Wow - this is beautiful and elegant - my new favorite!

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9516/73346969.jpg
Very very good. This is a winner.

[CooperD]

CooperD.....methinks your showing your age!!!:)

Just because I wanted to build an 818 to celebrate the big 4-0 doesn't make me OLD does it? :p


I disagree with you. This is a rare chance to make something really different. There are plenty of manufactures that make a "nice" looking sports car that appeals to the masses. I want something that is completely unique, but at the same time functional. I agree that there needs to be a limit, but I also don't want a car that looks like every other boring sports car out there. IMHO.

Actually, I'm hopeful that we're not that differing in our point of view - I too want to see something exciting, unique, and dramatic. But unfortunately to me, many of the designs I have seen posted seem more like cheap body kit stylings than a well balanced and cohesive piece of Art. Maybe that sums it up - I want a rolling piece of Art that performs both in form and function. Is that too much to ask?

[arif]

The new cob is fine to me except the lights, you should try New MINI ones...

Thx, what you think with this?

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/6083/86424773.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/857/86424773.jpg/)
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3525/60763537.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/60763537.jpg/)
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9426/80667836.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/80667836.jpg/)

[Olimk2]

Looking better to me...

[D2W]

Thx, what you think with this?

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/6083/86424773.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/857/86424773.jpg/)
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3525/60763537.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/60763537.jpg/)
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9426/80667836.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/80667836.jpg/)

Its nice but I like your other submission much better.

[D2W]

Didn't even get a single comment....... :(

I think this design is interesting, but I would need to see more to decide if I think its too over the top. Do the "extra" body panels come off? Maybe I need an explanation.

[readymix]

Its nice but I like your other submission much better.

Agreed. The white roadster you posted before is all sorts of awesome.

[Gary in NJ]

Agreed. The white roadster you posted before is all sorts of awesome.

Yes the white car is beautiful, the gold car has a fish face. Both look very realistic/buildable but the white car is a design that will look as good 20 years (or more) from now as it does today.

[Colvindesign]

Thanks for the feedback. Maybe I should start my own thread with just my designs in it.

[riptide motorsport]

Arif................................Looks sorta like Mr. Limpit.

[ganis]

@ Arif,
actually the orange need more attention at front air intake ( need anger mouth ), at rear its already nice curved, just put some chrome detail ( a bit like a retro )....awesome dude !

are you Indonesian?.....then it makes two Indonesian participated in this design competition! :) ....." sukses bro "
-ganis-

[bromikl]

Arif................................Looks sorta like Mr. Limpit.

Or a frightened guppy. :D

[Pat Buckley]

I love it stripless.....

I did a clay model that I was going to take a picture of and submit for scorn until I saw this......REALLY nice - and gets my vote.




what you think with this? I just submitted for the contest.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/7792/design310.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/695/design310.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/4141/15689978.jpg (http://img860.imageshack.us/i/15689978.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3968/design311.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/i/design311.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/factory-five-design-contest-thread/32412/page44/#post578758

[Mad Dog]

Mike Palotas - Week 10 Co-Winner for May 6

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/MPalotas.jpg
Factory Five's Week 10 Pick

Dean Schimmenti - Week 10 Co-Winner for May 6

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/dschimmenti.jpg
Grassroots Motorsports' Week 10 Pick

[readymix]

Mike Palotas week 10 submission = thumbs up.
The other one looks like someone grafted a Dodge fascia on a Ferrari.

[PhyrraM]

The first one looks like someone grafted Viper fangs on a Ferrari.

[readymix]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the fangs. There was a blue rendered submission that I saw in another thread with fangs...looks kinda cheesy.

[scartaan]

Although new to the thread, I have seen all of the weekly winners. I still like week #3 . Tim Perez came up with a very tidy design. I like the short overhangs, the rear window which could be the same type 65 coupe glass, it would also cover the roll over bar supports, and allow viewing the engine a la Ferrari. It would also contain some of the unwanted engine noise. The Porsche 911 has endured as a frequent driver because you have good visibility in all directions. The Targa design works well and is quick to convert coupe to open. There is also a lot of McLaren F1 about it.

[riptide motorsport]

Man they're all nice!

[Oppenheimer]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the fangs. There was a blue rendered submission that I saw in another thread with fangs...looks kinda cheesy.

yes, gotta lose the fangs, but otherwise this one's nice. While its aggressive, it _doesn't_ look like a Ferrari clonse, which I like. Eager to see other angles.

Not a fan of the Viper with Durango grill.

[Doc_FFR]

No new favorites so far... I would like to add my derision of the toothy touches on this week's winner. Good design spoiled by something more at home on a hot wheels car.

[Mad Dog]

Matthew Korich - Week 11 Winner for May 13

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/mattkorich.jpg

[Dave Smith]

All of us here at Factory Five agreed that Matthew Korich (above) had the coolest design, however, this week two other submissions were soooo good that we had to share and bestow upon them honorable mention awards for the week (we just made that up).

Colin Bonathan - Week 11 Honorable Mention

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/colinbonathan.jpg

Keith Kauchner - Week 11 Honorable Mention

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/keithkauchner.jpg

This third design is the favorite of Grassroots Motorsports editor Tim Suddard. The car has modernized Pantera-esque lines and is probably a bit more expensive to manufacture, but I loved it so much, I had to put it up.

I'm working through my PMs (it seems the last month just keeps getting busier) so if you're waiting on a response from me, I'm working on it.

[riptide motorsport]

the modern pantera is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[crackedcornish]

the modern pantera is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

looks like the result of a vette and a camaro hooking up :(

[thebeerbaron]

the modern pantera is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except it screams "GT car" rather than "lightweight sports car"

[bromikl]

No car with a roof has won since Week 3. Sensing a trend here. Perez's submission is still my favorite of those that won a weekly award. And Colin Bonathan's submission is my favorite of the three this week.

Are they keeping the real contenders under wraps?
Or are they sending a clear message: roof = no prize?

I know I'm not alone when I say, No roof = no buy. Maybe I'm not FFR's target market, but that's half of us here.

I'd much rather they choose a design with a roof, and remove it for the base model. But if the original design doesn't have one, it's going to look cheesy to add it later.

[Oppenheimer]

Except it screams "GT car" rather than "lightweight sports car"

Yes, but is that so bad? I'm more concerned that it _be_ lightweight than _looking_ lightweight. Of course, with a full body & windows like that, with no apparent way to delete them, means the car wouldn't be as light as it could otherwise be, but if it still hits the 1800 lb target, I won't care.

I want the car to perform, and I want it to look good. But as far as that look having to express certain attributes doesn't factor in for me. I don't need someone to take one look, and immediately think, 'that thing must be light', or 'sportscar' (as opposed to GT). I would like someone to think 'WOW' (wow good, not wow hideous).

[thebeerbaron]

No car with a roof has won since Week 3. Sensing a trend here. Perez's submission is still my favorite of those that won a weekly award. And Colin Bonathan's submission is my favorite of the three this week.

Are they keeping the real contenders under wraps?
Or are they sending a clear message: roof = no prize?

I know I'm not alone when I say, No roof = no buy. Maybe I'm not FFR's target market, but that's half of us here.

I'd much rather they choose a design with a roof, and remove it for the base model. But if the original design doesn't have one, it's going to look cheesy to add it later.

A couple things: the design competition is for a roadster with an optional roof. The design competition is separate from the final product - FFR may use as much or as little from the winning design as they want, as far as I know. Also, it's much easier to make a dramatic-looking car without a roof. Lopping the top off a coupe to make a roadster can look just as cheesy as adding a roof to a roadster. I think a lot of the most serious contenders have not submitted yet.

Just some quick thoughts - got to get back to work!

[bromikl]

Lopping the top off a coupe to make a roadster can look just as cheesy as adding a roof to a roadster.

Enough said. That horse I shall beat no more.

[Silvertop]

All three of Week 11’s offerings are appealing, though Week 11 winner Matthew Korich's design would likely be a bit low to the ground for easy entry/exit, particularly for my aging bones. I hope he also designed it with a windshield, because a car without one isn’t likely to get built, as I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be street legal in many states. Nice looking, though.

The only real issue with the honorable mention Week 11 offering by Cecil Bonathan is that the shape of the side windows will probably not be conducive to anything other than roll-up windows, which may render the design too expensive to build within FFR's price point. Otherwise,very nice.

The second honorable mention by Keith Kauchner is just spectacular. The Pantera-inspired lines are simply beautiful. However, it also is very low to the ground, and the oh-so-low non-removable roof will make entry/exit that much more difficult. It too would probably require roll-up windows.

Still, the car that I would most like to build so far remains Week 2 (Xabier), followed closely by Week 4 (Thanos), and Week 6 (Leonard Castillo). Tim Perez’ Week 3 design also looks like something I would build. One of Arif’s roadster offerings (the one shown in white) also looks very classy.

Hopefully, from my personal perspective, the design ultimately chosen will be one that is 1) at least tall enough for reasonable entry/exit 2) has a removable, stowable top of some type, cloth or rigid, (extra cost OK) plus some type of window system however rudimentary, and 3) is not so exotically styled that I will look like a silly old man driving it.

Just my personal preferences........ Others will no doubt think differently.

[Silvertop]

Yeah, I really like this the best out of all the ones arif has done. Wonder if we could see a hard top version?

VTX (Post 134)--Unless Arif is going to redesign the rear deck to accommodate a Targa-style roof panel, it is my thought that this particularly beautiful car would be better served by an optional stowable ragtop. A conventional removable hardtop could not be stowed on board, and would be sitting home in the garage when the rain started.........

[Mad Dog]

Gerald Pilare - Week 12 Co-Winner for May 20

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/gerald.jpg

Scott Bradford - Week 12 Co-Winner for May 20

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/scottb.jpg

[Oppenheimer]

I really like how that ScottyB design came out. Its retro without looking like its copying something, yet still modern at the same time. It looks great as a Coupe, looks like it would work great with the Targa removed as well. The side view and rear view (posted in another thread and on GRM as well) look terrific. There are a few minor details I'd still like to see tweaked, but very minor (more refinement in the hood vent and the grill opening).

The other weekly winner is quite nice as well.

[PhyrraM]

Yeah, I really like ScottyB's for the same retro-modern reasons. I see a little but of Retro Rally via a Stratos feel, which I love. My only nit-pick is that the lower lip on the nose is too low, but that is easily remedied. I really like the integrated targa and honestly believe that's the way to go, but also wonder how a full roadster (without helmet humps) would look, if it needs to be trimmed for budget or bodywork reasons.


ScottyB's is for the race-cruiser, ready-for-the-fight look that I think will appeal to many that turn their own wrenches and breath cars.

Xabier's is just plain beautiful - Without all that intagible "extra" that loads down a supercar. And that's a good thing to me.

[readymix]

Also 100% agree. Scotty B's design has alot of 70's sports car flair. And it looks gorgeous doing it. If the 818 looks like that in the end, I can forsee lots of time spent in the garage drinking beer on the stool while admiring it.

Xabier's car is also good in its own right. It has that late Miata feel to it. Something that is definitely easy on the eyes, but at the same time, not too flashy or overdone.

[ScottyB]

I'm very honored to have been chosen this week in light of the great designs we are seeing. Thanks for the feedback guys.

I chose a targa from the get-go due to flexibility. It may be that a roadster is the only practical solution, but I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

[Gun Bunny]

Much props to you, Scotty. I'm vacillating between your design and team KT, depending on where my retro/modern mood pendulum happens to sit at the moment.

On a side note, Chris Mahoney's design is stunning, but even I have to admit it's way too complicated to get made.

[riptide motorsport]

this is going to be a tough decision........

[ScottyB]

Thanks Gun. I'm really digging Team KT, Xabier's, and NXXN's (over at GRM). and those are just the people who have posted theirs. who knows what other good stuff is out there.

[GUNS]

You know it's funny, I didn't even think about ScottyB's design as being retro until I saw some mention of it. To me, that's a testament to the design. I think that it has a look that will suite the majority of potential buyers. Well done Scotty. To add to this, I recently dug up Scotty's original design which I initially brushed off because I thought it was too retro, which I find ironic since I love his new one sooo much and they share a lot of similarities.

[Gun Bunny]

Thanks Gun. I'm really digging Team KT, Xabier's, and NXXN's (over at GRM). and those are just the people who have posted theirs. who knows what other good stuff is out there.

Yeah, I hate to admit it, but upon further review and after sitting in one, I'm digging the gen 3 Miata, and Xabier's design, which I initially brushed off as too much like a Miata. I was a silly bunny. Though Xabier's still sits on the outside looking in IMO, I can see it having a very broad appeal, with a little tweaking to add just a dash more aggressiveness in the lines.

Also, many of our opinions could be changed depending upon what other angles we see of the design. Beautiful grill work with a horrific rear end hidden in the one shot we see of our "favorite"? Entirely possible. I love the lines on the new Camaro, except the rear end.

[mske390]

This third design is the favorite of Grassroots Motorsports editor Tim Suddard. The car has modernized Pantera-esque lines and is probably a bit more expensive to manufacture, but I loved it so much, I had to put it up.

WOW! This just made it to the top of my list for all submissions

[mske390]

No disrespect intended here but does Week 11 winner look like a Speed Racer car?

[bromikl]

This third design is the favorite of Grassroots Motorsports editor Tim Suddard. The car has modernized Pantera-esque lines and is probably a bit more expensive to manufacture, but I loved it so much, I had to put it up.

WOW! This just made it to the top of my list for all submissions

I'm too young to know what a Pantera is, (thanks, Google!) but that design isn't Pantera-inspired; it's a total rip-off. (No offense, Tim.) Other entries have been bashed for looking too much like a Porsche, like a Miata, or <fill in the blank fast car.> I don't see why this one gets a free pass.

It's a fine design, but anyone seeing it will think it's a Pantera. Period. Either restored or a kit car replica - which is one of the things all the other designers have worked enormously hard to avoid.

[mske390]

It's a fine design, but anyone seeing it will think it's a Pantera. Period. Either restored or a kit car replica - which is one of the things all the other designers have worked enormously hard to avoid.

Sorry that I hit a nerve but here is a comment from Dave about the design, seems to me that there is nother wrong mimicking a design? There is some pretty amazing design work throughout this site but of all the designs the pantera based one is one that I would make a point to purchase. I can't say that any others evoke this from me but that is just one persons opinion.


Lets talk about what you want to see on body design and any other engineering questions you may have. I would love to see cars like the attack and Porschge 918 and lotus 211 that seem to come close (if someone knows how to post photos, I'd love to see em on this post (I'm still lagging on the forum skills), but the design competiton will be the best place to formally do this. March 1st is the competition launch date. We will have a ton more details going forward on that date.

[Dave Smith]

I understand your comment about the pantera design being close to the original. My feeling is, (and I've tried to make the design competition open to alot of different interpretations of cars and shapes) that almost call cars borrow design lines and trends from other cars. I can list 1000 cars that have direct similarities to others. Maybe due to solving the same aerodynamic, space, packaging demands, also maybe due to trends in society (you have to admit that there are distinct "looks" in 1970's supercars, 1980's supercars, 1990's supercars, etc) the era of a car is often seen in common styling cues. Anyway, wide open means some designs will be virtual clones of existing cars (hopefully no longer being made for obvious trademark reasons) while others will be wildly original. We added a "most original design" category for that reason. ANyway, I am humbled by the variety and quality of all the submissions, and want to encourage everyone.

[Cr8tr]

So there are more chance for the winning design if it's original? F5 would not want a design that feels closely to something familiar? It make sense so the customers won't feel like a cop out of another car.

[Niburu]

read Daves recent coments in this thread
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?338-Open-Design-Discussion-and-What-s-NEXT!/page39
food for speculation

[VTX]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of most of the weekly design winners, with the exception of Xabier's design. I've seen some others that I really like a lot more. Not all of the weekly winners are bad, just that most don't really excite me and a few I think are just downright terrible. Sorry, just my opinion.

Ramarryo just posted his design over on the grassroots site which I think is a really nice design.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/factory-five-design-contest-thread/32412/page53/

[Spezz]

Hey guys this was my submission.

It's a roadster with a removable top.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/Spezz123/Factory%20Five%20Project%20818/ValentinBejenar_FFRdesigncontest_front34_small.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/Spezz123/Factory%20Five%20Project%20818/ValentinBejenar_FFRdesigncontest_rear34_small.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/Spezz123/Factory%20Five%20Project%20818/ValentinBejenar_FFRdesigncontest_profile_small.jpg

What do you guys think?

[subyrod]

Very nice concept! I dig!