Viewing Design Contest Submitals??

[mn_vette]

D2W posted the link to the weekly winners, other wise I would never have found that page. http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/f5gallery/

Is there a page that shows all of the designs that are submitted to the contest? I would love to browse the designs for inspiration and just to see what people are putting out there.

If there isn't a page can we get one put together???

[Kasmodean]

I recall them stating on GRM forum that they won't be allowing the public to view submittions other than the weekly.

[mn_vette]

Dave,

Thanks for starting that sticky. It gives us an easy place to check for the cool designs.

[PhyrraM]

Also, keep an eye on the GRM forum thread. Folks are also posting their drawings over there.

[mn_vette]

Do you have a link?

[Olimk2]

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/factory-five-design-contest-thread/32412/page11/

[PhyrraM]

Do you have a link?



http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/factory-five-design-contest-thread/32412/page11/

Thanks Olimk2. Hard to troll the forums when your running errands. :p

[mekeys]

I recall them stating on GRM forum that they won't be allowing the public to view submittions other than the weekly. I think that is a big mistake.I would like to see them all.Dave can still pick the one he likes the best.

[Rotr8]

^^^ Why is that a mistake? To let others know what you are designing is the mistake,,,

[05xtsy]

^^^ Why is that a mistake? To let others know what you are designing is the mistake,,,

I don't think it is that cut and dry, receiving criticism on your designs is important in refining them. Especially from current and potential customers.

[thebeerbaron]

I don't think it is that cut and dry, receiving criticism on your designs is important in refining them. Especially from current and potential customers.

New movements in art wouldn't exist if artists kept listening to "customers". If Pollock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Pollock) listened when someone inevitably told him "My 3-year old could do that", what would have happened? (other examples available)

If you're looking for a design that pleases everyone, then by all means, listen to everyone. But this contest has been stated to be about pushing the envelope, of creating a drop-dead, shockingly good body (My interpretation of Dave's words, I'll dig out the post if y'all insist). My suggestion is that this doesn't come from crowd-sourcing the design - it requires a strong vision, which I don't think can come from a wild assortment of "customers".

edit to add - criticism is a good thing, but the criticism has to be from someone who understands your vision and can help you achieve it.

edit to add also - the judging panel is not your customers (see above reasons), but is a very highly qualified set of designers or artists. If there's a new Bertone or Pininfarina submitting designs they'll spot her design a mile away, even if customers won't.

[Rotr8]

I don't think it is that cut and dry, receiving criticism on your designs is important in refining them. Especially from current and potential customers.

It is that cut and dry, so far every design Ive seen in the "open design discussion" is at best mediocre and not in the least 'design forward' the closest thing, and best design submitted and the one I would choose, in there is from xabier but still looks like its from the late 90's some of the surprisingly good ones have come from a few of the weekly winners that have not post a single comment or wip in any thread. Those people understand the word competition, not lets all pat each other on the back session. And so far I have not seen any truthful criticism either stating such. If you look through that thread again all you get from posting is a fanboi excitement for a half page or so until the next person post, no real intelligent criticism at all, and design by commity is just about the dumbest thing possible.

[05xtsy]

New movements in art wouldn't exist if artists kept listening to "customers". If Pollock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Pollock) listened when someone inevitably told him "My 3-year old could do that", what would have happened? (other examples available)

If you're looking for a design that pleases everyone, then by all means, listen to everyone. But this contest has been stated to be about pushing the envelope, of creating a drop-dead, shockingly good body (My interpretation of Dave's words, I'll dig out the post if y'all insist). My suggestion is that this doesn't come from crowd-sourcing the design - it requires a strong vision, which I don't think can come from a wild assortment of "customers".

edit to add - criticism is a good thing, but the criticism has to be from someone who understands your vision and can help you achieve it.

edit to add also - the judging panel is not your customers (see above reasons), but is a very highly qualified set of designers or artists. If there's a new Bertone or Pininfarina submitting designs they'll spot her design a mile away, even if customers won't.

Were talking about a product here, yes it is a work of art, but this is DESIGN for a practical application and the human factor is extremely important. One shouldn't compare Jackson Pollock and Car design, two entirely different types of art.

[05xtsy]

It is that cut and dry, so far every design Ive seen in the "open design discussion" is at best mediocre and not in the least 'design forward' the closest thing, and best design submitted and the one I would choose, in there is from xabier but still looks like its from the late 90's some of the surprisingly good ones have come from a few of the weekly winners that have not post a single comment or wip in any thread. Those people understand the word competition, not lets all pat each other on the back session. And so far I have not seen any truthful criticism either stating such. If you look through that thread again all you get from posting is a fanboi excitement for a half page or so until the next person post, no real intelligent criticism at all, and design by commity is just about the dumbest thing possible.

Receiving criticism and choosing to accept some things, make changes, and ignore others is not design by committee. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but being civil about it is entirely different subject. Supremacy over another contestant doesn't necessarily require hostility.

[Colvindesign]

has anyone seen the episode of the Simpsons where Homer designs a car?

http://ungenius.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/thehomer.jpg

[Colvindesign]

Car design is art. When you listen to what people want, you get the Ford Excursion.
When you let designers do what they do, you get things like;
Countach,
1963 Corvette
1962 Ferrari GTO

These cars were designed by designers and critiqued by the best minds in the automotive industry. If the designers here are critiqued by Dave Smith, Wayne Cherry and Chip Foose....... we stand to be part of history. If a dozen Homer Simpson's have their say, someone will win 5k and Dave Smith will make something else.

[olpro]

Customer input can be valuable for determining product specifications, competitive benchmark brands and things like that. Of course, it is very important to define the marketplace according to buyer demographics because it doesn’t help to ask a teenager what he wants if you are selling a 100K product (just an example for discussion). If it is an entry level product, three years out from start of production, you might well want to know what the 16 or 17 year old thinks. Even then, that teenager probably aspires to the upmarket offerings even though he/she can’t afford them.
Selecting the target group and arranging for interviews and focus groups is a big business and every company has its experts. There are also a lot of consultants out there. I remember a woman named Faith Popcorn, who was pushing the idea of “cocooning” (whatever that was) a decade or two back. That was pretty crazy but she made a fortune (for herself at least).
The best firms track trends over time to see what ideas may be emerging in the future. None of them are as good as they claim to be and most look over the shoulder of currently successful products rather than really understanding what the consumer will go for.
Generally, styling questions are only useful shortly before product introduction, to help shape the advertising and maybe get a clue on any potential product weaknesses - which can often be addressed with late minor changes or the advertising itself.
Even colors take several years to develop so, other than selecting from the existing basket (of production ready colors), one can’t do very much.
For certain, the home run products probably went against the so-called smart money, and wouldn’t have happen in the first place unless some designer (and his executive bosses) took a chance. Those rare market breakthroughs always involve some guiding gutsy PERSON, not a bunch of research, questionnaires or surveys.
The problem with soliciting the “crowd” process is that you don’t know who the heck you are dealing with, and separating valid opinions from the rest is impossible. It is garbage for that reason.
The judging panel may sound impressive but I don’t think that FFR can necessarily expect them to be fortune tellers either. Only the GM guy has actually designed real cars and his tenure at that company was pretty much a low point, design wise. In this regard, D. Smith may have to go on his own gut instinct.

[PhyrraM]

Don't forget that the other aspects of a car (performance, pedigree, etc.) also play a large part in how history will record the success of the "design".

[thebeerbaron]

Were talking about a product here, yes it is a work of art, but this is DESIGN for a practical application and the human factor is extremely important. One shouldn't compare Jackson Pollock and Car design, two entirely different types of art.

Here's where I disagree. Car design in the Accord/minivan vein is not art. But the really stand out stuff, the cars that are not measured by the number of cupholders or the miles per gallon, the Gordon-Keeble, the Miura, the Esprit, those are Art with a capital A. Those are the designs that break the mold and that is why they stick with you. In a world of pre-1972 cars, the Esprit or the Countach are Jackson Pollock to their contemporary Pintos and Gremlins.

Olpro and Colvindesign have it right - not everyone is a valid art/design critic. I could tell my dentist that his fillings aren't well-done, but that doesn't mean I'm right. It's fine to solicit customer input, but I'm not going to base my design around it and I'm not surprised that others aren't either. Call it cockiness, call it stuck-up-artist-ism, whatever you want. I've had just enough art education (BA Fine Art) to know that true art criticism is out of my league. That puts me four years and thousands of dollars in debt ahead of most people (but not much more) :)

[thebeerbaron]

Also - remember that Jim is not going to take the winning design and make a mold out of it. I assume there will be tweaks and edits to make it fit the product and I expect that customer feedback will be instrumental at this point. But not before that.

[Rotr8]

Here's where I disagree. Car design in the Accord/minivan vein is not art. But the really stand out stuff, the cars that are not measured by the number of cupholders or the miles per gallon, the Gordon-Keeble, the Miura, the Esprit, those are Art with a capital A. Those are the designs that break the mold and that is why they stick with you. In a world of pre-1972 cars, the Esprit or the Countach are Jackson Pollock to their contemporary Pintos and Gremlins.

Olpro and Colvindesign have it right - not everyone is a valid art/design critic. I could tell my dentist that his fillings aren't well-done, but that doesn't mean I'm right. It's fine to solicit customer input, but I'm not going to base my design around it and I'm not surprised that others aren't either. Call it cockiness, call it stuck-up-artist-ism, whatever you want. I've had just enough art education (BA Fine Art) to know that true art criticism is out of my league. That puts me four years and thousands of dollars in debt ahead of most people (but not much more) :)

lol. I was going to use the doctor/patient example as well.

And as for the art/design parallel they are exactly the same, anyone who has actually studied modern art knows that each standout peice/artist was directly influenced by the prior movement and created something that counteracted it, in this design and art(in the conext of its history) are equal. You cannot truly appreciate a Pollock without knowing what came before him.

[05xtsy]

lol. I was going to use the doctor/patient example as well.

And as for the art/design parallel they are exactly the same, anyone who has actually studied modern art knows that each standout peice/artist was directly influenced by the prior movement and created something that counteracted it, in this design and art(in the conext of its history) are equal. You cannot truly appreciate a Pollock without knowing what came before him.

I understand the argument in those terms, and have studied fine art. Im just saying that getting criticism is important in refinement, it doesn't mean that your going to take everyones suggestions and put them into your design. You yourself Rotr8 changed the height of your door because a lot of people said it looked off. And in that way I think it helped your design.

[mekeys]

I think that is a big mistake.I would like to see them all.Dave can still pick the one he likes the best.

I'm sorry I used the word "Big",Maybe that was a little too strong .I have been doodling car designs since the 50's.I'm interested in all styles of design.I would just like to see what others are doing(I guess thats just me)..If designerspace web site can host over 34,000 designs.I didn't see why FF5 couldn't host the few hundred they are going to get.I would like for FF5 to host a site where we could vote on them,Maybe the top ten or something (like American Idol) I got interested in this contest because I was thinking about building a 550 spyder(kit) using a subaru with an automatic transmisson.
Mel

[PhyrraM]

The buyers are not going to be fine art connoisseurs. In the end, it has to appeal to the buyers, not the designers.

Not to say a professional designer won't do a better job, but there is a ton of 'fine art' that the everyday man doesn't like and would never buy.

[thebeerbaron]

The buyers are not going to be fine art connoisseurs. In the end, it has to appeal to the buyers, not the designers.

Look at Bangle's flame surfacing. He was totally derided for it at first, and I'm still not a huge fan of his first 7-series trunks. But it caught people's attention and after the initial furor died down, it's now a very accepted style. Pushing the envelope is a risk, but it is how design advances, and leaving it to the customers will result in stagnant, tepid designs.

The job of the designer is to push the boundaries - you can argue just how far behind the curve the customer should be, but IMHO they will always be behind.

[PhyrraM]

..........The job of the designer is to push the boundaries - you can argue just how far behind the curve the customer should be, but IMHO they will always be behind.


Oh, no doubt. I agree 100%. But the best seem to have some degree of self control and a feel fo knowing what will fly and what won't.

How many Pininfarina's have made production vs. Colani's?


I will also add the BMW's reputation and the merits of the car, allowed the styling to limp along until it was accepted. FFR *may* not have that luxury.

[PhyrraM]

..... and leaving it to the customers will result in stagnant, tepid designs.


*cough* Accord, Camry, Altima *cough*

;)

[olpro]

The Bangle "butt" was awful when it first saw daylight and still is. PhyrraM, be careful what you say about Altima.