Anybody at UTCC?

[EricScottZehnder]

Is anybody at UTCC that could give us some track pictures, maybe some unofficial timing numbers of the 818 or the competition?

[C.Plavan]

Yes, Yes, Yes- Us Future 818R owners need to know. :P

I just hope it blows the doors off the SuperSport purpose built car. It will be there also. I almost went that route, but could not get over the looks and price of the race version ($85k to $105kish too!). They were trying to entice me with a "Race Series"..... I don't think they have sold that many to have a series! 818R looks like a much, much better car/deal.

Squished Racer-

http://www.999motorsportsusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/IMG_9910.jpg

[Frank818]

Hey that is a really nice look!!!

[EricScottZehnder]

I absolutely love the fact that you can get a direct comparison between the 818R and all these other track-oriented cars. I'm hoping it'll beat race-prepped Corvettes/Mustangs/BMWs which weigh quite a bit more. I don't expect it to beat something like the SuperSport "squished racer" showed but it's also 1/4th the price!

[blueoval_bowtie_guy]

I was just out searching on Google to see if anyone had posted anything from today. Haven't found anything yet. I REALLY want to see some pictures and videos of the 818 on the track!

[mobius]

Subscribing!

[C.Plavan]

I absolutely love the fact that you can get a direct comparison between the 818R and all these other track-oriented cars. I'm hoping it'll beat race-prepped Corvettes/Mustangs/BMWs which weigh quite a bit more. I don't expect it to beat something like the SuperSport "squished racer" showed but it's also 1/4th the price!

I think the 818R will destroy it (Figures crossed). The laptimes the Supersport ran at Willow Springs were just OK for that type of car. It was 1:28ish if I recall correctly when they first ran it. My VINTAGE 911 with 211RWHP, stock brakes, torsion bar suspension, and NO AERO did a low 1:33's. With a Ducktail on the back 1:32's. Granted, Willow Springs is a momentum track, that Aero package on the Supersport should of done a ton more in my opinion.

Now they could of done more tuning, but I guess we will see. I cant wait.

[EricScottZehnder]

I'm also interested in comparisons between the 818R and Ariel Atom / Exomotive's new US-based Exocet, and others. Exocars will always beat a car like the FF in terms of weight because there's just so little to the car. That being said, they also usually lack power because they're built around Miatas. They also have horrible aerodynamics because you're pushing scaffolding through the air at 150MPH.

[Turboguy]

I'm also interested in comparisons between the 818R and Ariel Atom..... Exocars will always beat a car like the FF in terms of weight because there's just so little to the car.

They can also be 150MPH coffins if you're doing lapping days and sharing the track with 2500lb+ street cars.

[JAubin]

Found some info searching around. Here's a folder with lap data. 818R is in Group B. Seems like the W/U went better than the timed laps so far...
http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/NASA_Mid_Atlantic_Region/2013%20-%20Official%20Results/2013%20GRM%20UTCC/

[JAubin]

Warmup 7th/32 in 2:11.590
Timed 12th/31 2:17.836
I'm sure all of this is unofficial right now...

[longislandwrx]

:confused: Hrmmm. I guess let's see how round 2 goes?

2 DQs puts it in 10th...

[Mechie3]

New to the car driver?

Wayne said it's faster than the challenge cars, and an FFR roadster is at 2:06 in group A.

[EricScottZehnder]

Warmup 7th/32 in 2:11.590
Timed 12th/31 2:17.836
I'm sure all of this is unofficial right now...

Yikes, I don't want to jump to any conclusions about the warm-up. A Pontiac Grand-Prix turning 2:06.9, a Dodge Neon SRT-4 at 2:08.7, even a Mitubishi Eclipse at 2:11.1.....

Granted, in Session 1 we're looking at basically the same for the Eclipse, 2:03.6 for the Grand-Prix, 2:06.8 for the Neon. I would like to see what these look like because these:

19831

19832

Shouldn't be able to beat this:

19833

[JAubin]

I thought JG did some testing in the 818 already? That said they did just put in a new turbo and tune it some more, so I would imagine it's different than the last time he had seat time.

[Mike N]

and an FFR roadster is at 2:06 in group A.

Trevor has gone low 2:03's at VIR so the track isn't as quick today for some reason.

19834

[EricScottZehnder]

I don't think I'm out of line saying that VIR is primarily a power course rather than a technical handling course. There's a Bimmerworld BMW M3 lapping within 1-3 seconds of prototype cars (VIPER Stohr, Wolf GB08, Daytona Prototype) which simply wouldn't be the case at a place like Watkins Glen, let's say.

[C.Plavan]

Just changing setup I guess. You gotta try different things....

[07FIREBLADE]

Does anyone know how many rounds there are going to be? Its running slower because of seat time since all of the new tweaks have been added.

[Mike N]

Yikes, I don't want to jump to any conclusions about the warm-up. A Pontiac Grand-Prix turning 2:06.9, a Dodge Neon SRT-4 at 2:08.7, even a Mitubishi Eclipse at 2:11.1.....

Granted, in Session 1 we're looking at basically the same for the Eclipse, 2:03.6 for the Grand-Prix, 2:06.8 for the Neon. I would like to see what these look like because these:

19831

The Grand Prix is a Trans Am car. The Neon and Eclipse have a ton of money invested in them, way more than the 818.

19832

Shouldn't be able to beat this:

19833

Google the drivers names and the cars. The Grand Prix is a Trans Am car, the Neon is a very very well sorted track car that has held quite a few track records for FWD class and the Eclipse just has a ton of money invested in it. The 818 has way less $$ in it than any of those cars. I know you guys want the 818 to be a giant killer but a 2:11 is a very respectable time.

[EricScottZehnder]

I know you guys want the 818 to be a giant killer but a 2:11 is a very respectable time.

Well, I know we shouldn't expect to top the time sheets of every car out there. I think the majority of us are confused given the test driver said that it's faster than the FF Roadster Challenge and that's running much faster, upwards of 9 seconds faster according to you.

P.S. - I'd never seen a Roadster with a proper wing on it. That's bad @$$.

[David Hodgkins]

John posted this to facebook:

"No 3rd gear!! Damnit. 340hp on stock Trans no workie"
"No fast runs for sure"
"Sad cause its so damn fast and has SO much grip"

[JAubin]

"No 3rd gear!! Damnit. 340hp on stock Trans no workie"

Doh! That has to be really frustrating for everyone. 3rd is often the gear of choice to blow up so that makes some sense. There's always next time!

[Frank818]

That really sucks.

[EricScottZehnder]

Yikes, is 340HP on a stock transmission really not possible (I'm looking for 300)? I feel like I've seen far greater HP builds with only slightly lightened WRX STi's which weigh far more. Or am I mistaking a WRX transmission with a WRX STi transmission which might be rated for different max HPs?

[Frank818]

I wonder if we'll get a sort of debriefing of what happened, what caused that and etc.

[07FIREBLADE]

Saw this coming.... damn this sucks oh well next year is another chance. Time for a ppg gear set and some more seat time. The sti trans is almost bullet proof up to 500hp. The 06-07 is suppose to be the strongest of the wrx gearsets that are part of the available donors...

Now if its putting these times down with no 3rd then damn thats crazy good still... no matter what this is just going to make decisions harder for many people who want to go for high hp builds.

[Mechie3]

John posted this to facebook:

"No 3rd gear!! Damnit. 340hp on stock Trans no workie"
"No fast runs for sure"
"Sad cause its so damn fast and has SO much grip"

Been there. When I heard the "BANG" merging onto a highway I thought my rear wheel fell off. I laughed when I realized it was just 3rd gear. Drove to work, laughed about it, then drove it home and laughed some more. The wife didn't laugh. ha!


Yikes, is 340HP on a stock transmission really not possible (I'm looking for 300)? I feel like I've seen far greater HP builds with only slightly lightened WRX STi's which weigh far more. Or am I mistaking a WRX transmission with a WRX STi transmission which might be rated for different max HPs?

WRX = 5 speed
STI = 6 speed
STI is much stronger.

If it's 340 Whp, I'm not surprised. It should hold 340 crankhp. Mine was around 320 Chp and 450 Ctq. 3rd gear blew after 4 years. Second trans never blew and is going into my 818. A lot of it depends on how the previous owner of the car drove it. There are some (were? don't know if they're still available) kits to beef up the 5 speed.

[SkiRideDrive]

In regards to the slower times, it may be due in part to VIR putting in new curbing which can prevent the cars from cutting the corners as tightly as they used to.

[mobius]

So what kinda money are we looking at to build the 5 speed to holed 4-450whp? any chance the 6 speed will fit?

[longislandwrx]

any chance the 6 speed will fit?

19835

[fateo66]

So what kinda money are we looking at to build the 5 speed to holed 4-450whp? any chance the 6 speed will fit?

I think it will, after having Wayne take some measurements for me I think with a little modifications it can be done!

[Mike N]

C'mon guys it's Friday afternoon how long does it take to swap a trans? Take the one out of the street car.

[JAubin]

Seems like he's doing better on Session #2 02:09.491 3/31
http://www.mylaps.com/en/classification/2775056

[PhyrraM]

Bummer.

Not looking forward to the forthcoming "Can the subaru tranny handle it - even when 2WD and in a light weight chassis" thread .......Round 34. :cool:

[StatGSR]

Bummer.

Not looking forward to the forthcoming "Can the subaru tranny handle it - even when 2WD and in a light weight chassis" thread .......Round 34. :cool:

i know right! granted, if your still putting the power down without spinning, even with a lighter car the tranny is still taking similar abuse.

[StatGSR]

Wonder what power adders the Exomotive Exocet has on it if any. If its just a stock miata engine its doing pretty well with a 2:15.9 for its first time out (wasnt in warm up or session 1).
http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/NASA_Mid_Atlantic_Region/2013%20-%20Official%20Results/2013%20GRM%20UTCC/2013_UTCC_Group_B_Session_2.pdf

EDIT*
I guess its running 7lbs of boost on regular gas untuned... sounds like a recipe for disaster...
http://www.mx5atlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?21200-Wanna-help-me-build-a-UTCC-turbo-Exocet/page3

[Dave Smith]

I have recieved the same information as you guys, that the transmission 3rd gear failed in warm-up sessions. John is confident the car as-is can pull faster lap times than our 25 hour car (2:05's) but having 3rd out is just crippling as the track is a 3rd-4th track, very fast and needs that gear to drive fast thru sections like the climbing esses, etc... I dont want to pester the team as they have lots to do right now, but it is killing me! We sorta figured the trans would be next as we were adding BOTH hp and slicks to the equation. The upgraded turbo added almost 100hp at 6K rpm, and a net 70 hp bump over the engine Road and Track tested. We were VERY close to pulling the engine and going with an STi Mil and upgraded trans, but felt that the learning in stages with the chassis was more important than the promo of one race... Until you are IN that one race and you do the palm-to-the-forehead Homer Simpson... I'm sure we'll get the play-by-play from the boys after the day is done. Super nasty and hot for sure.

If we end up at 2:09 with a missing 3rd gear I'll be OK with that but was privately wagerig we would be in the 2:03-2:05 territory. Those are ALL VERY fast times and for a $10K kit that has a total cost of $25K I should be happy, but I know we can do soo much better. No vette or Bimmer should be safe from this mini can-am car!

[Niburu]

grabbed these off of NASIOC

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/p480x480/1001187_10153010878430043_236963483_n.jpg

turn 3
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/16556_10153011678765043_1582096700_n.jpg

[EricScottZehnder]

Not looking forward to the forthcoming "Can the subaru tranny handle it - even when 2WD and in a light weight chassis" thread .......Round 34. :cool:

I had assumed it'd be able to handle it but then this happened. Given I'm not particularly well versed in Subaru part history and performance as most people in this forum, is this an outlier or an indicator of the top end of performance these WRX trannys can take? What have previous threads come up with?

Also, 2:09 with a broken third really does sound like quite the accomplishment!!

[Dan Babb]

Just got home from UTCC...it was freaking hot out today. Here are all the pictures I took of the 818R and a couple of the street car.

http://s26.photobucket.com/user/DanBabb/library/FFR-818


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/DanBabb/FFR-818/IMG_8286_zps650c1cb3.jpg

[Dave Smith]

The guys are running the third sesh right now. You gotta remember about the trans that we are running 340 rwhp AND very sticky slicks. I think that Jim and the boys have made the right decision by going upwards in stages. We can speak much better to the reliability of the running gear IN OUR CAR when we've worked our way up using mods that many guys will make. We may have taken a while with the Challenge Series cars, but the tactics worked and the cars are well-balanced and safe race cars. Nobody wants to do better at UTCC than I do, but I wont second guess our tactics, rather just learn from the date and experience. I'll let you guys know or better yet, have John George and Jim Schenck post their first-hand evaluations from the track when they're done.

[blueafro]

Wonder what power adders the Exomotive Exocet has on it if any. If its just a stock miata engine its doing pretty well with a 2:15.9 for its first time out (wasnt in warm up or session 1).
http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/NASA_Mid_Atlantic_Region/2013%20-%20Official%20Results/2013%20GRM%20UTCC/2013_UTCC_Group_B_Session_2.pdf

EDIT*
I guess its running 7lbs of boost on regular gas untuned... sounds like a recipe for disaster...
http://www.mx5atlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?21200-Wanna-help-me-build-a-UTCC-turbo-Exocet/page3

They built that car this week and first fired it up yesterday, so I guess they had no time left for tuning.

[Frank818]

I think it will, after having Wayne take some measurements for me I think with a little modifications it can be done!

Thought it was Erik telling you the gap was 0.001". Anyway doesn't matter, I just hope a 6 can fit as I will be flirting with 340-350whp, but for street, but still!

[Dave Smith]

I just got off the phone with Jim and the 2:09's gonna have to be it for the day. The missing third gear was really tough as the larger turbo needed those revs and every turn was too fast for second, so bogging fourth was the only choice. The conditions were typically brutal as July in Virginia is hot and steamy.

The good news is that the team lerarned a TON today at the race track and Wednesday at the wind tunnel. Our current Challenge cars are running 2:06-2:10's so 2:09 is still a good showing. The guys are all very confident that the car as it sits right now (with a proper 3rd gear) is capable of 2:04's or perhapd a tad quicker. THAT IS VERY FAST.

Driver John George is on his way to the airport and I asked him to post his seat-of-the-pants eval/feedback for you all. Tomorrow the street car (white 818S) is slated for an all-day test session with a top tier car magazine, then the crew comes home...

[Mechie3]

knowing it's missing third...those times aren't bad at all.

:D

[EricScottZehnder]

Thank You very much, Dave, for posting in this thread! I don't think anyone is second guessing tactics to see what is possible and what breaks. I think you can take all this speculation and thirst for lap times and track information as proof of interest in the car.

Looking forward to the street version car mag review.

[AMW1011]

So what kinda money are we looking at to build the 5 speed to holed 4-450whp? any chance the 6 speed will fit?

Anything over 280whp and the stock 5 speed is on borrowed time. Your best options are upgraded gears from PARS or PPG. Most of their gear sets are good for 600hp, so you'll be fine. The 6 speed will fit eventually, someone will do the mod and it will become more widespread.

[mobius]

Isn't the PPG gearset like 8k? 6 speed probably a better option...

[PhyrraM]

........ We can speak much better to the reliability of the running gear IN OUR CAR when we've worked our way up using mods that many guys will make................

Quoted for truth. Any knowledge gained in a Subaru is only speculation in an 818. That was the point of my "tranny discussion, Round 34" quip.

[AMW1011]

Isn't the PPG gearset like 8k? 6 speed probably a better option...

Around $3500 for your reasonable gears (400-500whp). Install can range from $1000-$2500 or $0 if you do it yourself. I think PARS come out a little cheaper plus there is always used. A good used 6speed is easily $3000 or more and not as strong as true built gears, especially if you go for straight cut 1st then you can launch anywhere you want with a nice enough clutch.

[HelluvaEngineer]

2005 - 2009 Legacy GT Tranny has bigger gears. Would probably be just fine in the 300-340 range for a fraction of the price of the PPG gears.

[AMW1011]

2005 - 2009 Legacy GT Tranny has bigger gears. Would probably be just fine in the 300-340 range for a fraction of the price of the PPG gears.

Good point, its a bit stronger from what I've seen. I'd say ~300whp would be a lot safer on it than the WRX 5 speed, but its probably not going to be 6-speed safe or built 5 speed safe. I'd still advice being gentle even with that tranny at those power levels. I think they go for $2000-$2500 so I wouldn't call them a fraction, but certainly a lot cheaper. The truth is until we have a way to fit the 6-speed, any build with over 280whp should consider the built 5 gearset and any high HP builds absolutely require it. Then again 300awhp (315rwhp) is around 360BHP which is an insane power to weight ratio. Hell the cost of the wheels and rubber to keep more power than that from spinning would be more than a built tranny.

[07FIREBLADE]

http://www.flatironstuning.com/p-1686-2005-2008-legacy-gt-1st-4th-gear-set.aspx

Legacy gears at a fraction of ppg gearset

[metalmaker12]

Well time to start saving, a ppg gear set is looming. What a job by the team, and a 2:09 is incredible with no third gear on that track. I think 2:03 or better is possible. Well done FFR!!!!!

[AMW1011]

http://www.flatironstuning.com/p-1686-2005-2008-legacy-gt-1st-4th-gear-set.aspx

Legacy gears at a fraction of ppg gearset

Ah I see, good ****. I thought you were referencing swapping the trannies as a whole. Something to note however, if you can't do this labor yourself your looking at $1000-$2000 in professional labor. I know of a few LGTs running the stock trans with 260=300awhp without issue.

[metalmaker12]

I might be selling my diff if I can make a 6 spd fit and work correctly. But if its not broke don't fix

[DrAwender]

There should be no need to go with a 6 speed. I spoke with some of the crew for Saker car and they are running 600hp in a stock 5 speed... Its a JDM STI 5 speed. The gearing is also better in the JDM 5 speeds.

[Dave Smith]

In-car video from Fridays track event at Virginia International Raceway. John shows how hard the car is braking and conering. The missing third gear makes 2:09 very impressive I think the in-car footage shows that the crew has delivered the mail when it comes to chassis competence and handling. http://vimeo.com/70672130

[HelluvaEngineer]

Ah I see, good ****. I thought you were referencing swapping the trannies as a whole. Something to note however, if you can't do this labor yourself your looking at $1000-$2000 in professional labor. I know of a few LGTs running the stock trans with 260=300awhp without issue.

I found a used transmission with only 37K miles for $1500. No labor to put the gears in.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-SUBARU-LEGACY-GT-5-SPEED-MANUAL-TRANSMISSION-WITH-ONLY-37K-MILES-/200933057872

I found another one where the case is damaged but the gears are good for $250. But labor is required for that one.
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/5spd-06-gt-transmission-sale-147813.html?

I believe with a little bit of looking you can find a solution for a fraction of the cost.

[Frank818]

I found a used transmission with only 37K miles for $1500. No labor to put the gears in.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-SUBARU-LEGACY-GT-5-SPEED-MANUAL-TRANSMISSION-WITH-ONLY-37K-MILES-/200933057872

I found another one where the case is damaged but the gears are good for $250. But labor is required for that one.
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/5spd-06-gt-transmission-sale-147813.html?

I believe with a little bit of looking you can find a solution for a fraction of the cost.

But if you go over 325whp you may have to find something else than a LGT tranny.

[Mechie3]

Iirc, lgt trans don't have a speedo gear. They use the front hub for speed. Some work is needed for the lgt trans to be a drop in.

[C.Plavan]

Will an 08 trans fit/work anyway? I don't care about a speedo. I don't need one in a race car.

[GUNS]

Interior looks much better here. Any words on what they did? Did they just powder coat the aluminum?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/DanBabb/FFR-818/IMG_8347_zpse1ca9d66.jpg

[IMPREZvWRX]

I've blown a lot of Subaru 5-speeds in my 02 WRX, but the one that lasted for me was the version 6 STI gearbox, which shares gears with the 05-09 USDM LGT.
After blowing the stock trans in my RS, I had the LGT box in before I went ahead with the 6-speed swap. I just lived without a speedo for a while, then I eventually cracked open the case and installed the speedo gears. Not sure on my horsepower, but the car trapped 117-118 at the time.

[Frank818]

280. Ok tnx!

[bromikl]

With the location of the trans, I bet a crew could swap in a new one in about 20 minutes. Carry a spare to the track, and don't give it another thought.

[edfickus]

Did the 818s get on the track and if so, what times were run?
Thanks Ed

[wildbill]

Did the 818s get on the track and if so, what times were run?
Thanks Ed

Take a scan through the previous posts....there's info on the lap times.....minus a gear....:mad:

[flytosail]

How did the S do?

[shinn497]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10946-818R-at-UTCC2013-incar-video

[vnmsss]

Hats off to John, Jim, Wayne and the entire team for all of their work toward the UTCC effort this year. Having competed in the UTCC a few years ago, I know the level of competition as well as the dedication and sheer determination it takes to put forward a winning effort. The heat alone can take the wind out of your sails, and when coupled with troubleshooting and working on the car between sessions, it can take a serious toll on a team. The 818 has already proven to be a winning concept, and eary versions have produced such promising results that it's easy to forget this is a value-point, mini-supercar which is within reach of virtually any builder......Kudos to John George for pulling off some great laps in a wounded warrior, to Jim, Wayne and the team for the awesome design and engineering of a great car, and to Dave for keeping the wind in the sails of the team! Can't wait to see where this all goes, as I know it will be even more excellent than we can even imagine!! Karen

[C.Plavan]

I just bought 2 Legacy GT transmissions....... :) I'm going to carry a spare for my 818R.

[HelluvaEngineer]

I just bought 2 Legacy GT transmissions....... :) I'm going to carry a spare for my 818R.

If you dont mind sharing, what did they run you?

[C.Plavan]

1. $999 w/71K miles (no clutch slave or shifter stuff).
2. $1399 W/62k miles (with clutch slave and shifter stuff). I paid a little more than I would of liked to for this one, but I wanted to buy both before the rush on them.

[longislandwrx]

I was about to buy a Legacy GT trans, but someone else bought them all up :confused: :confused::confused:???

[C.Plavan]

Sorry! If you end up needing one for your build and stall- I'll sell you one of mine.

[longislandwrx]

Also worth mentioning, with a 2.0 making similar hp the 5mt might still be safe. That extra torque from the 2.5 puts a hurting on the trans. Time will tell though.

[Turboguy]

Did the 818s get on the track and if so, what times were run?
Thanks Ed
Take a scan through the previous posts....there's info on the lap times.....minus a gear....:mad:

I did not see any times for the 818S. As far as I am aware, they only had the 818R on track.


A few people have asked why they didn't pull the tranny from the S and throw it in the R (myself included). I wonder if it was because immediately after UTCC the 818S was due to be reviewed by a magazine?

[Mitch Wright]

During the UTCC event the S spent the majority of the morning at a photo shoot. I am sure the pending magazine road test came into play.

[Samiam1017]

Any idea what magazine did the road test?

[Jim Schenck]

It was for Automobile Magazine, and that is why we didn't swap the gearbox or even just run the white car. We had to be three hours away at eight the next morning so no time to swap it back or fix any mis-haps that can happen in open passing sessions like was the case at UTCC. (not a complaint about the way it was run that is the preffered method, it just increases the risk of car to car contact.)

[Mike N]

It was for Automobile Magazine, and that is why we didn't swap the gearbox or even just run the white car. We had to be three hours away at eight the next morning so no time to swap it back or fix any mis-haps that can happen in open passing sessions like was the case at UTCC. (not a complaint about the way it was run that is the preffered method, it just increases the risk of car to car contact.)

Jim. Congratulations on such a great performance at VIR, being an engineer myself I know how satisfying it must be for you to see all your hard work finally come together in the form of performance on track.

The transmission choice is completely understandable, the press on the street car is ultimately going to be worth way more than a few quicker laps in the R so risking the magazine article was not an option.

[Xusia]

I honestly can't recall the last time I was this excited about a car. Hats off to Dave for the idea & vision, to Jim and his team for his their creativity and hard work, and the rest of FFR for putting their passion, dedication, and sweat into making a quality American-made product we can be proud to own. :)

[RelfF2]

speaking of magazines, I believe an appearance in Kit Car Builder was/is coming up IIRC, but their website is basic that's not a publication carried by the pharmacy/grocery etc, lol. anyone know if its out/when it comes out?

[Samiam1017]

I think my local Barnes and noble Carrys kit car builder. But I'm not sure if all of them carry it.

[RelfF2]

Yeah, I was going to check the bookstores, but I wanted to know when the 818 issue drops before I go out looking for it.

[GrassrootsMotorsports]

While a bit late to the party, just wanted to say we were very impressed with the 818 at UTCC! Seriously killer times for a prototype with a failing transmission. I'm sure there will be more than one 818 in UTCC next year :cool:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/GrilledCheese33/IMG_3636_zpsf40820f2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GrilledCheese33/media/IMG_3636_zpsf40820f2.jpg.html)